Attacker in Nice was 'radicalized rapidly,' French interior minister says

[Eugene]

Source: CNN

Attacker in Nice was 'radicalized rapidly,' French interior minister says

By Peter Wilkinson, Jason Hanna and Euan McKirdy, CNN
Updated 1516 GMT (2316 HKT) July 16, 2016

(CNN) - The man who used a 20-ton truck to plow down hundreds of people in Nice this week, killing 84, somehow became radicalized very quickly and hadn't even yet shown up on any anti-terrorist intelligence radar, French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said Saturday.

"It seems that the attacker got radicalized very rapidly," Cazeneuve said of Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, 31.

The minister said Bouhlel had not been known to the intelligence services previously, and he noted that authorities now face a new scenario with individuals who are becoming very sensitive to the messages of ISIS.

Earlier Saturday, a statement from ISIS' media group, Amaq Agency, said that an ISIS "soldier" carried out the attack in Nice.

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Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/16/europe/france-attack-on-nice-isis/

[blm]

1. His father said he wasn't taking his meds, of course violence sounds like an answer to a psychotic.

Religion is just an added excuse for doing violent things their psychotic selves often envisioned.

[loyalsister]

4. And you know that because you've been one?

Since people are recognizing Islamaphobia for what it is, now the tactic is to paint terrorists as mentally ill.
What does that say to a person who lives with Schizophrenia and has haeard voices and sat in rooms of colors and sounds and is doing the best they can to live an ordinary life with meds? Does it matter? It does to me because I have friends who feel like they are under attack and don't want to seek help because they are part of the collective being blamed for every mass shooting in the US.

[blm]

5. Didn't say EVERY mass shooting was someone in a psychotic episode. As a sister to a schizophrenic

I know exactly what she is like when she foregoes her medication. She has made quite a few attempts on the lives of other members of my family, including me. She has terrorized children at a Catholic elementary school that she deemed too modern and liberal in its direction. The police in various nearby communities know her well.

You may have missed my past postings on the subject. Our family has lived with the reality of her disease in all of its manifestations for 45 years.

I do not make reference to schizophrenia lightly, and, especially, when I mention how religious dogma can factor into their behavior when they are not faithful to their medication regime.

[loyalsister]

11. The trouble is

As with people who cite "black on black crime" with good intentions, it still furthers the bigotted narrative. In one case, black on black crime is a bigger problem that blacks being shot by police.
In the case of citing psychosis as what must be a feature of the killer it furthers the narrative that it is not possible for a "sane" person to commit such acts. Therefore, they must ALL be mentally ill. Not only is it damaging to people who live with being stereotyped, it gives people who are operating with rage (over traffic, losing their job, domestic issues, etc..) a pass.

[blm]

12. I'm quite sure I did not make a blanket statement. I only post this view when there is evidence that

should not be ignored. The pattern of past behavior and the fact that his father said he hadn't been taking his medication.

You shouldn't be so quick to assume that mental illness is NOT a factor, just as people shouldn't be quick to assume every act is religious or political terrorism. I, in part due to my family's experience, mostly as a longtime observer of international politics and terrorism since the 80s, have acquired a good sense of which is which.

[loyalsister]

13. Is it unimportant that it furthers the bigotted narrative

to make a claim without 1st hand knowledge, thereby validating the reasoning and all of the bigotry that comes with it every single time we hear it.

[blm]

14. It isn't a knee-jerk response. It IS based on evidence that too many are quick to ignore.

Because, like it or not, mental health is a factor in a significant number of the cases involving individual actors targeting others for mass killings.

Can you tell me how never discussing it is helpful when evidence exists that it could be a factor?

If there was no statement from his father about medications and no reference to his violent, unstable past from women and neighbors, then I would have judged it to be an act of religious terrorism when many others did, not to stigmatize Muslims, but only because that is where the evidence is pointing.

Can't do that here.

And one should never feel stigmatized in a place where evidence is being considered.

[seabeyond]

16. Point. I ee it like you do. I have not been in whatever battle people are having here.

So much so, I do not even know what the disagreement or argument is. I do not care. Looking at the evidence in events is where I draw my conclusions. That simple. And yes, I agree with your assessment per evidence.

[loyalsister]

17. Or maybe it was the same ordinary rage someone felt on the highway recently?

Or that of the person pissed at their neighbor for putting up political signs, not mowing their lawn, etc... Too close? I think people are desperate to distance themselves from the people who do these things. They pretend someone else's a diagnosis, religion, or some other comforting othering will make them feel safer. When the truth is there is there are a lot of angry people who have the means.
"Evidence" based on personal experience and an interpretation of what is behind a particular "medication" is also known as anecdotal. When it involves 2nd and third hand anecdotes it is assumptions. Assumptions are the basis of stereotypes. But, if it makes you feel better, carry on with beliefs based on personal experiences, and assumptions based on statements reported in the media with no regard for how it effects real people's daily lives.

[blm]

23. Sorry, but, you are conflating two different realities. Families know when a schizophrenic stops

taking their medication. I don't know why you need to pretend that family is unreliable in these cases and their observations should be discarded. Was the road rage person on anti-psychotic medications? Why does one equal the other to you?

I am interested in how you come to the conclusion that when a family member speaks out about their loved one's actions in the context of being off their medication regime, how that becomes a stigmatizing experience to others. People are becoming more open about their family's struggles - that ability to be open about it is doing more to erase the stigmatism than the constant acts of denial, even when the evidence exists.

I think you are showing yourself to be adverse to the topic even being discussed, even though the perpetrator's father and neighbors are open to the revelations.

[loyalsister]

28. Rage is not mental illness

and is extremely common. Yet, people are more comfortable demonizing entire groups than speculating that it's possible that the person was an average Joe or Jane.

I'm adverse to extending the deficit of the doubt based on the fact that he took medication thereby perpetuating the demonization of people with mental illnesses. We have no way of truly knowing about the motivation. That doesn't necessarily bother me. Some things are unknowable. Imposing our experience with our family members onto it helps no one and in this case demonizes my friends and neighbors because the more terrorist acts, murder, crime, and violence are paired with mental illness the more people believe it happens all the time. AND the more we see circulating the less people are willing to seek treatment.

[blm]

30. I know - which is why I thought it was absurd for you to conflate the two. My point stands - if the

person involved in the rate episode was NOT diagnosed with a serious mental disorder and NOT on medication for it why would his situation be conflated with the person who was on medication for a mental disorder, but, stopped taking that medication and then committed a destructive act?

I very much disagree with you that taking note of a perpetrator's mental disability and lack of medication is somehow an affront to everyone dealing with a mental health issue.

I think it's one helluva reach, actually.

[loyalsister]

34. Tell that the people who live with it

I'm sure they would be comforted to hear from someone who spreads that narrative say they aren't referring specifically to them.

Why is it so impossible to wait until ALL of the facts and conclusions are available before speculating? That endless speculation about mental illness is exactly where the bigotry lies as it has become a way to ridicule people. Have you heard the term "bipolar" used to describe someone who is having a bad day? Or the phrase "they must be off their meds" to describe someone not behaving within the norm? Participating in it on any level enables the haters.

[blm]

36. There was nothing cavalier or flip in my post. You could discern that easily if you wanted to

Last edited Sat Jul 16, 2016, 10:27 PM - Edit history (1)

read my posts comprehensively, yet you refuse and insist that I am being callous and unreasonably speculative, when the fact remains I only spoke out about it AFTER the family stated unequivocally that he had gone without his medication.

So did Adam Lanza.

My sister could have been either of those perpetrators - yeah, I am THAT open and honest. And I am not fearful to be honest because it is far less destructive than the silence and shame some patients families put themselves through.

[KMOD]

18. There is a mental health crisis going on,

and we need to address it.

I hope you can convince your friend to seek treatment. Untreated schizophrenia leads to degenerative brain function.

[loyalsister]

21. She was being treated

and was describing her first episode when she was hospitalized. She was very smart and self aware. She told me about her experience with stereotyoes and ostracization. But she seemed to be most concerned for others, especially youth.
She spent some time on a state mental health commission promoting awareness and policies that would help people who live with mental illness. Futile effort, considering the way people are still very quick to name mental illness as a cause for violence when there are plenty of possibilities beyond our consideration. She's dead now- suicide.

[KMOD]

22. I am very sorry for your loss.

The stigma attached with mental illness causes too many to not seek treatment, and we need to do something to address this.

[loyalsister]

24. Thanks

Exactly my point. Perpetuating the idea that there is a propensity for violence and murder discourages people from seeking help. The reason behind these acts could be more complicated or even simpler than all of our postulations. Insisting on using the language of mental illness, assuming muslim terrorism, or any other stereotypes that have been applied doesn't help us to find real answers or get any closer to learning what the motivation may have been. I think that I am less uncomfortable with uncertainty and waiting for facts than most people. Especially when they alternative is to extend the deficit of the doubt to specific groups of individuals.

[blm]

25. openness seems to reduce the stress on the patient and their family…..one of my close

friends is bipolar and she feels she is much happier to have it out in the open and the ability to discuss her feelings about it including the struggles with those around her. She gets annoyed when some members of her family prefer she NOT speak openly about it, as if they are ashamed.

Not everyone's experience is the same. Shame is more dangerous than openness, imo.

[KMOD]

29. Exactly.

Several years ago I came down with an acute and severe case of anxiety and panic disorder. My own husband was like, "it's just in your head, you can tough it out."

I tried everything, from altering my diet, adding more exercise, drinking gallons of chamomile tea. It got to the point where I was afraid to go out anywhere, for fear that I would have a panic attack in public.

It wasn't until I experienced a panic attack at my yearly physical that I finally received treatment. My doctor was so very cool. I remember him telling me "Hey, shit happens." lol

Thankfully he found the right treatment for me, and I returned back to my normal state of being. Ever since, I've been a huge advocate for openness on the issues of mental health. Nobody should have to suffer or be embarrassed by it.

You are so spot on. It's the shaming, and ignoring that is dangerous.

[blm]

31. You have an open-hearted friend here, KMOD

(( ))

[KMOD]

32. Thank you!

[Arazi]

2. So it's confirmed by French authorities, he was influenced by radical Islam

[meow2u3]

3. I beg to differ

I think this goon was your run-of-the-mill mass murderer, much like the loser mass murderers here in the states who pop off on numerous innocent people because they have a problem with women.

[melman]

6. Right

Pissed at the garment industry.

[bdwker]

19. Bwahahaha

Memorable

[Dreamer Tatum]

8. Yeah....that's the ticket. Nt

[blm]

9. I believe his family when they say he was not taking the medication he needed, and the neighbors

and women in his past who brought up the fact that he was often violent and not at all religious in his life.

Religious fundamentalism can act as a trigger, though, as an excuse to act on their delusions.

[Matrosov]

7. As someone who often critices Islam

Nope, I'd say this dude was just nucking futs. Not that religious radicals aren't nucking futs either, but I think in this case religion had nothing to do with it.

[deathrind]

33. 👆 This

The officials sure are working hard to get the religion angle attached to this.

Perhaps a link is eventually established but until then I agree with your post. The leaps/suppositions being made to link this to ISIS by the French Minister in that CNN article is disconcerting. Slightly surprised that CNN posted that...but I shouldn't be.

[Eleanors38]

10. Just add water, heh? Hell, he flled his britches, then found some goddam cauze what does the same.

[JCMach1]

15. people with mental illness often are drawn to religion...

especially the crazier elements of it...

[LeftyMom]

20. Reports are that he hadn't fasted or gone to mosque during Ramadan.

I'd sure like to hear the story about how somebody went from not giving a fraction of a shit about their religion to murderous holy warrior in a week.

[The_Casual_Observer]

26. Sounds like a weak attempt to tie this idiot to Isis.

As usual the French would like to stir up more shit in the ME for somebody else to have to deal with later.

[RandySF]

27. Sometimes mental illness is a factor

And this appears to be a case.

[mwrguy]

35. the right is hell-bent to blame Islam

despite evidence to the contrary.

As usual.

[Albertoo]

37. No. There is evidence Islamists manipulated the driver

Are you hell-bent to exonerate Islam despite evidence to the contrary?

[struggle4progress]

38. ... He "had not been known to the intelligence services because he did not stand out ...

by being linked with radical Islamic ideology," Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said yesterday. If he was a Islamist militant, he must have become radicalised very quickly, Mr Cazeneuve added ...

http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/attack-in-nice-attacker-not-linked-to-any-militant-group