Terrorism is not about religion

[KMOD]

it's about hate, rage and anger.

That's what ISIS is all about, and their message resonates with unstable people who are also filled with rage, hate and anger.

[jmg257]

1. Oh yes, no religious element at all...

A longer, official statement by ISIS regarding today’s attacks in Brussels and why they were “justified” was also sent out by Amaq News. Read that below:

Paris Attack (13th Nov. 2015) and Brussels Attack (22nd March, 2016) in the light of the Islamic Shari’ah.

Justifying the Paris attacks/Brussels attack(& the likes of it) in the light of the Qur’ān and sunnah and the ijmā’ & quotes from the scholars of the salaf.

We have seen so many people in the social media claiming that The Islamic state was not justified in killing the French “innocent” citizens in the blessed ghazwa in Paris, and that of the Brussels attack now.We have also seen some evil “scholars” – Scholars for the dollars quoting the textual evidences out of context. Today , we shall tackle this topic with evidences from the Qur’ān and sunnah and the ijmā’ & quotes from the scholars of the salaf

First we want to make it clear to all that what makes the kafir’s blood permissiable to spill is not him fighting the Muslims, rather it is his “KUFR” that necessitates his killing. So if one asks, can you kill a Kafir (who does not fight Islamand muslims)? the answer is a big YES.

[■] Explaining the “Mafhūm Al-Mukhālafah” (the understanding of the opposite) in Usūl Fiqh:

This is like when Allāh said: “And never pray (funeral prayer) upon any of them (i.e. the hypocrites) who dies, nor stand at his grave.” (At-Tawbah verse 84). So because the disbelieving hypocrites were those whom Allāh specifically identified as being prohibited to have the funeral prayer performed upon and their graves visited, then this necessitates that the Muslims are those who are to be prayed upon and whose graves are to be visited. And this is understood by the rule: “Mafhūm Al-Mukhālafah” (the understanding of the opposite), because if we say the disbelievers are those whom Allāh specified a prohibition regarding something, then this necessities that the opposite ruling would apply for those who are opposite to them (i.e. the believers). So this is the explanation for the rule: “Mafhūm Al-Mukhālafah”, which is also referred to as: “Dalīl Al-Khitāb”. ○●○●○●○

The example of the prohibition of praying the funeral prayer for the disbeliever indicating the permissibility of praying the funeral prayer for the Muslims and visiting their graves was used by Shaykh Al-Islām Ibn Taymiyyah frequently, as he said: “And do not ever pray upon anyone of them who dies and do not stand at their graves.” Therefore, the ‘Dalīl Al-Khitāb’ is that the believers are prayed upon and their graves are to be stood at.” [“Majmū’ Al-Fatāwa ”, Vol. 3/399; also look to Vol. 24/330 & Vol. 24/346 & Vol. 27/448] 🔺🔺🔺🔺 🔻🔻🔻🔻

Allah says: “…But if they repent and perform As-Salat, and give Zakat, then leave their way free…” (At-Tawbah Verse 5)

NOTE: Repentance in the above ayah means saying the shahadatain and entering Islam. Ibn ‘Umar narrates that the Rasulullah(saw) said: “I have been ordered to fight against the people until they testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and until they establish the Salah and pay the Zakah. And if they do so then they will have gained protection from me for their lives and property, unless [they commit acts that are punishable] in accordance to Islam, and their reckoning will be with Allah the Almighty.” [Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim] Therefore, the ‘Dalīl Al-Khitāb’ in the above ayah & hadeeth is that, if the kuffar don’t become Muslims, their blood would not be protected and would be legal to spill and their wealth would be halal to take. 🔺🔺🔺🔺 🔻🔻🔻🔻

Allah also has made the blood of every kafir legal to spill in the general ayah: “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush” (At-Tawbah verse 5).

Allah just said the mushrikeen(idolators), so he never differentiated the “innocent civilians” from the “fighting soldiers”. So who are we to differentiate the kuffar today? 🔺🔺🔺🔺 🔻🔻🔻🔻

Ijmā’ of the ulamaa on the legality of spilling the blood of the Kuffar:

● Ibn Kathir said: “Ibn Jareer narrated an Ījmā'(scholarly consensus) that it is permissiable to kill a kafir if he has no protection even if he is in Baytul Harām or Baytul Maqdis” [Tafsīr Ibn Katheer 2/6]

● Al Qurtubi said: “The ulamaa have gathered in consensus(ijmā’) that; if a kafir was to wrap his neck with his hands and the backs of all the trees in the Haram(Makkah) (in an effort to save his life); that would not prevent his killing if he had no previous contract of security” [Tafsīr At-Tabari 6/61] ♢♢♢♢♢

Quotes of the ulamā’ of the salaf about the legality of apilling the blood of the kuffar even if they dont fight us:

● Imam Ash-Shafi’ said: “Allah the exalted & blessed legalized(to spill) the blood and wealth of the kafir unless he pays the jizya(tax) or he is granted protection for a certain period” [Al Umm 1/264] 🔺🔺🔺🔺

● Imam Ash-Shawkāni said: “As for the Kufar, their blood is basicaly legal(to spill) as it is in the ayah of the sword(At-Tawbah verse 5), what about if they start fighting(us)?” [Al Sayrul Jarār .. 🔺🔺🔺🔺

● Umar bin Al Khattab said to Abu Jandal (May Allah be pleased with them both): “For verily they are Mushrikeen(polytheits), and the blood of one of them is like the blood of a dog” [Reported by Ahmad & Al Bayhaqi] 🔺🔺🔺🔺

● Ibn Muflih said: “There is no expiation nor blood money paid for killing a kafir that has no peace treaty, because his blood is generaly permissiable(to spill) like the pig” [Al Mubdi’ 8/263] 🔺🔺🔺🔺

● Ash-Shawkāni said: “The kafir, whether he fights(the Muslims) or not: his blood is permissiable(to spill) as long as he is a kafir” [Al Sayrul Jarār 4/369] 🔺🔺🔺🔺

● Al Kāsāni: “Basicaly: Anyone(who is a kafir) from the fighters(i.e. the male that has reached the fighting age): it is permissiable to kill him whether he fights(the Muslims) or not” [Badā’ As-Sanāi’ 7/101] 🔺🔺🔺🔺

● Al Qurtubi said: “If a Muslim meets a kafir that has no contract(of protection): it is permissiable for him to kill that Kafir” [Tafsīr Al-Qurtubi 5/338] 🔺🔺🔺🔺

● As-Sarkhāsi said: “There is no sin upon one who kills the appostates before calling them to Islam because they are the same with the kuffar and the Message(of Islam) has reached them” [Al Mabsūt 10/120] 🔺🔺🔺🔺

●Imam An-Nawawi said: “As for the kafir that has no contract of peace(with a legitimate Islamic State to which he pays Jizya), there is no liability in killing him, from whatever religion he might be” [Rawdhatu Tālibīn 9/259] 🔺🔺🔺🔺

●Ibn Hajar Al ‘Asqalāni said: “The existence of the disbelief (Kufr) is what permits the blood” [“Fat’h Al-Bārī ”, Vol. 12/326; publication of “Maktabat Dār As-Salām” & “Maktabat Dār Al-Fayhā’ ”, 1st Edition, 1418 H.] 🔻🔻🔻🔻

♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢

For those that say that we mistranslate these Quranic verses of Jihad and Qitaal and we go against the ‘known’ ‘ulamaa’:

then give them this audio by Shaykh Ibn ‘Utheymīn who they respect alot who says exactly what we have said now

Shaykh Ibn ‘Utheymin(rh), said in a tape recording regarding this topic: “And the second (matter) is the forbiddance of killing women and children in times of war. But if it is said: ‘If they (the kuffār) do this to us – meaning that they kill our children and women – Then do we then kill them?’ The apparent [dhāhir] is that it is (permissible) for us to kill their women and children- And due to the generality of the Statement of Allāh: “Then whoever transgresses the prohibition against you, you transgress likewise against him”{ Al-Baqarah: 194} [Refer to the side “B” from the third cassette of Kitāb al-Jihād from Sharh Bulūgh al-Marām. Starting at time frame 29:09] 🔻🔻🔻🔻

In addition to the above cattegories of those of the kuffar that we shouldnt kill, we have :

1. The Children

2. The Women

3. The Old etc.

》》 So All those kuffar cattegories we mentioned that their blood is protected; they can be killed anytime should they violate their contracts by:

A.) If the dhimi/Mu’āhad starts fighting the Muslims etc he is killed and his blood would be legal to spill despite him paying jizya 🔺🔺🔺🔺

B.) If the kuffar kill our children/Women/old we do the same: Allah Says: “So whoever has transgressed against you, then transgress against him in the same way that he has transgressed against you” [Al Baqarah 194]

So how many Muslim women and children and old have The French Kuffar killed in Syria, Iraq and other parts of the muslim lands???? We have not yet settled the scores, a few hundreds aint enough yet.

Allah also says: “And if you punish [an enemy, O believers], punish with an equivalent of that with which you were harmed” [An-Nahl 126]

Allah Also Says: “And the retribution for an evil act is an evil one like it” [Ash-Shūrah 40] 🔺🔺🔺🔺

Allah also says: “And those who, when an oppressive wrong is done to them, they take revenge” [Ash-Shūrah verse 39].

So, this was a piece of article for the one who cry and mourn on the death of the Kuffar, while the death hundreds of muslim men, women, old and children dying daily in the airstrikes don’t effect them in anyway.

MAY ALLAH ACCEPT THE EFFORTS MADE TO COLLECT THESE PROOFS N EVIDENCES N MAY HE UNITE THIS UMMAH UNDER ONE LEADER AND ONE BANNER, M MAY ALLAH GRANT IZZAH TO ISLAM N MUSLIMS EVERY WHERE ON THE EARTH N MAY HE GRANT VICTORY TO THIS RELIGION ESTABLISHING THE SHARI’AH OF ALLAH IN EVERY CORNER OF THE EARTH.

AAMEEEN.

Someone should tell them.

[melman]

42. It's really amazing

They go into great detail about what it's about, and it's just ignored by those that want it to be about something else.

[Marr]

55. The same people will talk about how arrogant the west is.

As they pat the terrorists on the head and say they know the killers' motivations better than they do themselves, and set about patiently explaining what the poor little guy *really* meant to say.

[Igel]

72. False consciousness.

"You say you have a reason for what you do, but I know what the real reason is. No, you don't know the real reason. I do. I know more about your thinking than you do. What about your interests? No, those aren't you real interests, these are. I'll be the judge of your interests and what's good for you. Just eat your damned peas, I'm the grown up here and if you don't believe me, well, there. I just stomped my foot. I've peeved. No, I won't eat my peeves, smart-ass.

"What, you think I'm arrogant? How dare you! I care about little bastards like you do more than you do about yourselves."


Usually when people spout false-consciousness BS I think it's because of failed consciousness. They're lights are on, but nobody's home. Somebody set a timer to make the lights click on and off.

It's especially egregious when you're 45 and the little omniscient master of the universe is 16 or 20 and learned everything there is to know from SnapChat and Instagram.

[NightWatcher]

2. Religion is a tool of manipulation.

Terrorists will recruit using many tools, religion is one for some. They've also lured the lonely with a promise of family, guys with a promise of girls, girls with the promise of guys, but anything can be used as a tool to manipulate people into joining a death cult like ISIS.

[KMOD]

4. Yes.

but it's unstable people that they are able to recruit.

[NightWatcher]

8. Definitely, nuts make the best foot soldiers

[Dorian Gray]

14. Unfortunately

there are a LOT of angry, displaced younger Muslims in this world who have been mistreated by their home countries and their adopted countries. It's easy to radicalize people who feel as though they are rejected and mistreated everywhere they turn.

[KMOD]

17. Yes.

And we all absolutely have to address this.

But when you get to the point where you are mass murdering innocent lives, you are clearly not stable.

Religion didn't drive the jerk who murdered the police officers in Dallas. Religion didn't drive the jerk who piloted the plane into the mountain. Religion didn't drive the jerk into shooting elementary school students.

These are all unstable people.

[Dorian Gray]

19. Yes... that's true, as well...

it's just difficult to grasp the scope of the NUMBERS of people who are joining ISIS and behaving in such depraved ways. It's mind blowing.

[KMOD]

21. It's frightening.

[Act_of_Reparation]

66. There are also a lot of comfortable, educated, upper class Muslims who are radicalized as well.

Mohamed Atta, for one.

[melm00se]

3. Religion is not the reason

it is the excuse.

If there was instantly no religion, something else would step in to fill in as the excuse.

[Dorian Gray]

16. Absolutely

but if we can only fight their propaganda if we understand it and their motives.

[Igel]

73. Perhaps.

But that's at too high a level of abstraction.

Dispose of religion, it's unlikely to be the same people picking up the same weapons and attacking the same victims. Perhaps the overall death toll would be different--perhaps higher, because religion might just be the "opium of the people" and reduce the amount of grievance and resentment and rebeliion. Or perhaps lower. Hard to judge, I'm left with assumptions.

The point is for *those people* at that place and time it *is* about religion.

Notice that religion depends on context. If you're religions teaches you you're superior because you're righteous then you look at others and see they're richer, healthier, more educated and all the while less righteous, you're pissed off. If your religion, however, teaches that you'll be poor because of your religion and your righteousness, but all that doesn't matter because current riches, health, and education aren't the goals, you'll have a different reaction.

Same for social movements. If you're poor and you see others that are richer, healthier, more educated and you see no valid reason for that, you also get pissed off. Religion is one way of providing motivation for "valid reasons" or lack thereof. Ideology does the same thing. So does philosophies of different sorts. If you're really into positivism, then it's all cause and effect so you consider what you did to get to your current state, and the process mattered. If it's all post-modern, then it's all socially constructed, so you can socially reconstruct things so that being a high-school drop out, 200 lbs overweight, and an alcoholic merits the same pay as an engineer working to increase solar efficiency or a biomedical researcher working on an ebola vaccine.

But then it would be philosphy or ideology that mattered, not religion. Still not sure "excuse" is the right word.

[Whiskeytide]

5. I suspect that's true in many instances ...

... especially with the so called "lone wolf" radicalization.

But I think for those who have established the Caliphate and are waging this genocide in Iraq and Syria, it is ALL about their interpretation of their religion.

And, I don't think suicide bombers/attackers - even those filled with hate, rage and anger - are easily persuaded to carry out a suicide attack without the promise of religious reward and at least some general belief in that reward.

I don't think we can separate these acts from their religion. We may be able to separate their religion from the religion practiced by most, but to say these people are not driven substantially by religious doctrine is misguided.

[KMOD]

9. How would you explain someone like Andreas Lubitz?

[Whiskeytide]

48. I can't. He was a suicidal psychopath ...

... suffering from mental disease. As far as I recall, there was no religious element to his actions. He wanted to kill himself, and - unlike most suicides - he wanted to take others with him. That makes him a mass murderer, but not necessarily a terrorist except in the most broad interpretation of the word's meaning.

Not ALL mass murderers are terrorists. And not ALL terrorists are driven by religion. But IS and it's followers are, or at least pretend to be, motivated by their religious beliefs. They tell us that on a daily basis. I'm surprised at how many simply refuse to take them at their word.

[puffy socks]

89. pretend to be, motivated by their religious beliefs.

that's what captured ISIS members have said.
Or that they joined to get revenge on America, or they believed them to be a humanitarian group.

[MowCowWhoHow III]

6. Of course!

[bravenak]

75. That book seems so much like a prop

He really loves that flag and that millitary equiptment, not the book. Looks like a murderous gangbanger who wears a crucifix.

[MowCowWhoHow III]

76. Mindreader!

[bravenak]

78. I'm damn good at it too

[MowCowWhoHow III]

79. Of course!

[bravenak]

80. Glad people see the light now

[Nye Bevan]

7. When their religion teaches that they will be rewarded with 72 virgins in the afterlife,

that's obviously going to make mass murderers easier to recruit.

[KMOD]

15. Scholors say that is being mistranslated.

It's raisons, not virgins.

But again, you would have to be unstable to believe that you were going to be rewarded with 72 virgins.

[Marr]

64. Someone always points that out.

As if it somehow means the terrorists were insane, or just not smart enough to understand their own religion as well as you do.

You're actually arguing against your own point here. You're acknowledging that these killers are motivated by religious doctrine.

[Igel]

74. That's not the claim.

The claim is that the word understood by native speakers of Arabic to mean "virgins" in that one passage actually is similar to, IIRC, to the Aramaic word for "raisin," and that when the Qur'aan was written that's what the author meant.

Consider it to be not a mistranslation but a 1200-year-old misunderstanding. (After all, the Qur'aan was written down a hundred years after Muhammed from collections of sayings attributed to Muhammed.) It's not how a translator got it wrong, but how a millennium of Muslims got it wrong.

There are, in every old text, words hard to understand.

We have "the apple of my eye" when the Hebrew word for "apple" meant "pupil." Easy enough fix. But some words were obscure enough that Gesenius in the early 1800s had no clue what they actually meant, and comparative and historical linguistic approaches to Hebrew lexicography were still 60 or 80 years away. They knew to consider Aramaic, but they didn't look at Arabic for insight. Phoenician and Assyrian weren't available, the Nag Hammadi library and the Qumran scrolls weren't known. The same problem occurs with the Greek NT, and it wasn't until some papyri were discovered with similar grammar and even vocabulary that the idea of Koine Greek being a special divine creation just for the purposes of the NT died it's well-deserved death.

Muslims weren't into lesser anything, so the idea of Aramaic information their understanding of their sacred writings wasn't an option.

At the same time, I really have trouble believing anybody would be motivated to die in battle for a handful of raisins.

[WestCoastLib]

10. Terrorism is about more than one thing-Religion is one of them.

It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

[trotsky]

11. "it's about hate, rage and anger."

And religion, which tells someone what to do with that hate, rage, and anger.

[Dorian Gray]

12. But they use religious

propaganda to convince people that martyrdom is a just cause. They use religious propaganda to control people and justify their actions.

I don't think Islam is evil, but there is a strain of jihadist Islam that is dangerous.... and they use religious writings and tradition to control people. And it's something that we need to consider when fighting their propaganda.

[KMOD]

20. Yes they use religion as progaganda,

But their radical message resonates with unstable people. Rational people do not buy into their message.

We have a world wide mental health crisis.

[FLPanhandle]

13. Frankly, that's bullshit

Not when so many terrorist attacks happen over and over by one religion in particular.

At some point, you have to look at the culture and that religion as being partly to blame (even if some people here want to treat Islam with kid gloves).

[The_Casual_Observer]

18. I suppose that if the US were invaded, occupied

And exploited as the middle east has been
The dominant religion would be blamed fo the retaliation.

[Statistical]

22. Muslims have been killing in the name of religion for far longer than the US has even existed.

The number one killer of Muslims is ... other Muslims.

The prophet was very clear that apostate Muslims deserve only death. Commands that more than a dozen times. In fact they are the one group where they have no option to reform and accept Allah.

That sort of leads to a "All True Scotsman" problem when you had the Shia and Sunni divide. If the Shia say the Sunnis are apostate Muslims and the Sunni says the Shias are the apostate ones and the Koran calls upon all Muslims to kill apostate Muslims ... well you get a thousand years of Muslim on Muslim violence.

Honestly they will probably still be killing each other a couple thousand years after the US no longer exists as well.

[The_Casual_Observer]

24. Everybody has god on their side while they are

Killing everybody in sight. Christians, Muslims you name it.

[FLPanhandle]

26. Victim blaming at it's finest.

Sad.

[Whiskeytide]

57. If U.S. religious leaders organized and led the ...

... retaliation, claimed it was their religious duty to do so, quoted scripture to justify their acts, killed and tortured non-Christians in this country simply for being non-believers or "bad" Christians, began a series of attacks in Canada, Mexico and other nations in the name of God ...

... then yes, I would blame them.

I understand what you're saying. Of course there would be a secular resistance to an occupying force in the U.S. - one that had nothing to do with religion. But that's not relevant to what IS is doing in Iraq, Syria and elsewhere.

These guys are flying a religious flag at the head of their "army". Why do we keep trying to tell them that they really don't know why they're doing what they're doing?

[FrodosPet]

71. As an agnostic, the first thing I would do in that circumstance

Is start killing my Presbyterian neighbors.



Actually, no, that is NOT the first thing I would do.

[get the red out]

23. Thanks for the information

I'll try to keep that in mind the next time someone blows up a family planning clinic.

[KMOD]

25. Robert Dear, or as he called himself

"the warrior for babies", is in a Colorado mental institution.

[get the red out]

28. Eric Robert Rudolph

Was an extremist Christian.

[KMOD]

30. He also showed warning signs of rage from a young age.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7398701/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/eric-rudolphs-rage-was-long-time-brewing/#.V4kWit9TFlY

[get the red out]

32. A LOT of untrue Scotsmen out there

You would think us Liberals would go along with the Repubs and make sure to say ALL "Christian" white males that do something hideous are poor widdle lone wolf nut cases, but we often don't! We must face that shame and apologize to our political opposition immediately!

[KMOD]

54. I have no idea what your point is.

[get the red out]

69. I'm sure

[Warren DeMontague]

82. The point is, you want to airbrush everything out that doesn't fit your narrative.

It's funny that people here will claim Seth Rogen movies caused the guy in Isla Vista to kill all those people, but when terrorism is committed by people shouting variations of "God is Great" as they kill people, somehow religion isn't part of the equation.

[KMOD]

85. My narrative is that all of these acts,

all of them including the Dallas guy, the plane crasher, the Orlando jerk, have one thing in common.

They are hateful, angry, selfish jerks who we always learn "were a little off" from their acquaintances. There is some sort of mental issues involved in all of them.

[Warren DeMontague]

87. Yes, but thinking there's an invisible man in the sky w/ a long list of rules

that he wants you to make your neighbors follow, is a mental issue.

That said, the guy in France may just have been a violent sociopath who lost it. Still, there have been a lot of incidences of religiously motivated violence. When cartoonists are shot for drawing "blasphemous" cartoons, how do you explain that without the "R" word?

[KMOD]

93. The Kouachi brothers were also described as being

reclusive and socially aloof.

They had a troubled life, and a history of crime before they were recruited and indoctrinated by radicals. They were the type of men that the totalitarianism religious radicals prey on.

As I said up thread, I'm not denying the religious war that is occurring. I am saying that the terrorist attacks being committed outside of the religious war zones, are being committee by mentally unstable people who are full of anger and rage. Their anger and rage is fueled even further by the messages coming from groups like ISIS. Hate begets hate, anger begets anger, and violence begets violence.
When you fill an already unstable persons mind with hateful and revengeful thoughts, whether it be from the news, the internet, or their supposed friends, you are creating a toxic environment.

[Warren DeMontague]

96. And I'm saying that the distinction between "mentally unstable" and "magic beings in the sky

tell me what to do"

may be academic.

[KMOD]

99. In my opinion, you are implying that all people who practice religion

are unstable.

I'm sensing that you are intolerant of people who hold religious beliefs because you keep repeating "magic beings in the sky tell me what to do".

[Warren DeMontague]

107. and in my opinion, you're engaging in special pleading for something that

when looked at objectively, is clearly not rational.

I can't control how you interpret my words, however, I know plenty of "religious" people who don't fall into the category I have laid out here.

[Throd]

29. So he wasn't religiously motivated?

I feel better now.

[KMOD]

31. He was insane.

[Mosby]

39. he was depressed and finacially insecure

That's not insanity.

[KMOD]

52. A judge ruled him incompetent,

and sent him to a mental institution.

[Warren DeMontague]

81. Yeah, thinking there's a magic invisible man in the sky with a long list of rules he wants you to

force your neighbors to follow...


not what I would consider "sane", no.

[KMOD]

83. I'm not particularly religious Warren,

but many of my loved ones are, and none of them are crazy, nor would they commit such a violent act.

[Warren DeMontague]

88. you should read that entire sentence.

Then decide yourself whether it is written to apply to ALL "religious people", or not.

[whatthehey]

36. Does that stop him from being religiously motivated?

[KMOD]

41. No,

but I'm certain his comprehension was impaired.

[whatthehey]

49. I smell porridge-sugar coming...

Let me guess, your thought is that anybody who does anything bad due to religious motivation has impaired comprehension and that this exculpates religion, no? I'd be happy to be proven wrong but let's check...

Are parents who don't give children medical treatment for religious reasons mentally unstable or just religious?

Are RCC prelates who shift around pedophile priests to areas with new victims instead of reporting them to the police mentally unstable or just religious?

Are people who subject their children to violent "exorcisms" mentally unstable or just religious?

Are people who attack and vandalize the property of atheists mentally unstable or just religious?

And for fun let's check consistency too. Most NTS peddlers suddenly start believing in the motivating power of religion when it motivates nice but extreme behavior (what is it I wonder in religion which makes it so powerful a motivating force for good but somehow unable to motivate evil in the slightest? Why do all religions seem to have this but no other ideology such as patriotism or political belief, where nobody ever challenges their ability to foment both good and bad?)

Are people who devote their lives to missions in unpleasant and dangerous places mentally unstable or just religious?

Are people who deliberately choose a life of poverty and restriction in monasteries and convents mentally unstable or just religious?

Are people who donate huge sums of money not from secular altruism but from a desire to demonstrate scriptural values mentally unstable or just religious?

[KMOD]

56. No.

I'm simply saying that these terrorist attacks of mass murder are committed by people who share a common theme.

[whatthehey]

62. Yes that's true; it's usually religion

Not that there haven't been secular mass murderers aplenty, but they tend to be the suicide by cop only way anybody will take notice of me mass shooters. The creative cause-driven terrorists are almost always religious, with the vast majority these days being Muslims.

Obligatory note that wouldn't be needed on a site not devoted to deliberately misconstrued poutrage:

Yes there are nigh two billion Muslims. Yes only a tiny tiny ratio of them are terrorists. But for Allah's sake people remember please that "most P are Q" is not identical to "most Q are P"

[PoutrageFatigue]

91. Yes. RELIGION.

Next?

[loyalsister]

27. Not sure what unstable means, but rage, hate, and anger are pretty universal

There is plenty of it in the US. (Mass killings, demand to have a right to kill people, etc). We also have state sanctioned killings to satisfy the vengeance (rage, hate, anger) of people whose loved ones have been killed.

What happens when the perpetrator is an entire country and the state is incapable of helping to satisfy the vengeance? Terrorist leaders who want to kill but not to risk their own lives cleverly cloak an ideology in religion to turn people into killers. It's not so different from traditional military leadership who have to convince soldiers to abandon their moral reservations against killing. "Praise the lord and pass the amunition."

[Dreamer Tatum]

33. What entitles you or anyone else to say what motivates what?

Let's get serious: a large contingent of DUers go to lengths to assure us that terror attacks aren't really terror attacks - they're because of X or Y or whatever bullshit might possibly abstract from what is probably the truth. Example: a prolific and we'll known member tried to blame the Bangladesh attacks on THE GARMENT INDUSTRY.

And when it gets a little too hard to shift blame, an entirely new narrative is invented. In the Orlando case, we were assured that the man was a conflicted gay person. Now I see a thread that aims to attribute attacks to domestic violence.

I suppose that for each of these supposed REAL causes, there's an explanation why 50+ people are suddenly massacred as a result of repressed homosexuality and domestic violence? Makes zero sense. But I'm sure someone will come educate me soon, and in so doing they will very incidentally excuse what many are sure the REAL cause is.

[KMOD]

37. Excuse me?

I am expressing my opinion, and I am certainly entitled to do so.

I don't know what you're rambling on about since I never said it wasn't terrorism. Of course it's terrorism.

But do you know what all these mass murderers have in common?

Every single time we learn the details of the terrorists, the picture that emerges is of people who were clearly disturbed individuals, full of rage, hate and anger. People who know them admit that something was clearly off with their behavior.

[Dreamer Tatum]

40. You left off that the majority of them claim a particular faith.

And so you proved my point.

[KMOD]

43. 84% of the population

practices religion. So the chances are pretty high that most of the terrorists will claim a certain faith.

[Dreamer Tatum]

44. It's comical at this point. Nt

[KMOD]

46. You have no response

[Dreamer Tatum]

47. Every response of yours proves my point

So no response is required.

[KMOD]

58. I guess I missed the proof of your point.

But if you see it, good for you.

[leftynyc]

65. So it's just highly

coincidental that the vast majority of the recent terrorist attacks claim Islam as their religion?

[Dr. Strange]

86. Pay no attention to the imam behind the curtain!

[puffy socks]

90. So then the Christians

are actually the ones engaging in mass killing due to religion because most people in the US are Christians. Americans killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis?

[romanic]

34. Religion is a factor in most ISIS attacks though.

They think their version of Islam is great and powerful enough to destroy anyone and anything that doesn't fit into that.

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. When did any of those become mutually exclusive?

Did I miss a meeting?

[whatthehey]

38. Hmmm

Is it called the hatred and anger state in the Levant now? Are they recruiting all religious backgrounds equally as long as the guys are hateful and angry? Are they blowing up historical sites because they are associated with benevolence and calm? Are they cutting throats based on who can recite Cannibal Corpse lyrics? Are they killing people who are also hateful and angry, but in a slightly different way based on their interpretation of the inerrant scripture of hate and anger?


Nope. All those things do have one link though....

This whole resentment of evil western whitey schtick always conveniently ignores that most attacks are on other Muslims...

[KMOD]

45. I am not denying the fact

that there is a religious war happening.

Orlando, Dallas, Nice, etc. are not in the warzone.

[whatthehey]

51. Well yes they are in Dar-al Kharb, and we all know what that means

Are you going to pretend that wonderfully telling construct does not have a religious origin too?

[KMOD]

59. ???

[whatthehey]

63. Why ???

Is the misplaced hyphen (I always do that for some reason) that confusing?

[Marr]

50. Islamic terrorism is religious in nature.

Seriously, enough with the excuses.

[giftedgirl77]

53. Anything that provides an opportunity for bigots to bash

something they don't understand or approve of. Gotta love it.

[KMOD]

60. Yup.

Just another day here, same old same old

[Democat]

98. People learn to be bigots

And often times that learning is backed by extremist religion.

You can't just say it isn't a religion because you don't want it to be.

[leftynyc]

61. Do you think you could convince

those fighting to create a caliphate that it has nothing to do with religion?

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. ISIS is all about religion; that's why they are committing genocide on the Yazidis

The hate, rage and anger comes from the religious viewpoint of ISIS. They enslave and kill the Yazidis for purely religious reasons. They hate and kill Shia Muslims, for purely religious reasons. They blow up ancient monuments, for purely religious reasons. They want an apocalyptic conflict with the successors to the Roman Empire, for purely religious reasons.

[GeorgeGist]

68. Except for those religions which can't explain ...

where GOD was while this atrocious act was conducted.

[True Earthling]

70. Religion can can be a factor and push someone who is unstable over the edge...

There are multiple factors for terrorism...you can't point to one thing like religion or economic despair as a sole cause.

A religion like Islam that glorifies suicide and rewards those who commit atrocities in defense of Islam with sexual favors...this motivation can tip the scale and push an already unstable individual over the edge.

One of the main factors in how some young Muslim men become ripe for radicalization and terrorism is their inability to integrate and feel accepted in western culture due to the oppressive nature of Islam and ME culture. Their religion and traditional customs forbid them from adopting our customs and dressing and behaving like us...a number of young Muslims can't accept our our way of life and then can't understand why we don't accept them. They become resentful of our society as a whole. I never saw a Muslim in my area until about 5 years ago...now I go to the mall and I see Muslims all the time. I see Muslim women dressed in hijabs and burqas always walking behind their men.. so yeah, I don't accept that. I also don't accept the LBGT-phobia of their religion...not sure how many Muslims buy into it but I would bet it's the majority.

There's also resentment with western governments..i.e. the Iraq invasion etc. and support for Israel. Some of it is a result of believing in delusional conspiracy theories i.e. Bush orchestrated 9/11 to start a war on Islam.

No other religion provides motivation for death and dying like Islam. Christianity is much different... they want to save lives and preserve life at all costs i.e. anti-abortion and anti-assisted suicide due to terminal illness. I'm not promoting Christianity ..just pointing out the culture clash of Muslims living in a country with a Christian majority and culture.

I am a hard core atheist so don't want to hear from Islamic apologists about how Christianity 500 yrs ago was as bad as Islam today.

[Warren DeMontague]

77. Sure, if you say so.

[Rex]

84. lulz

[Corporate666]

92. Just like white supremacy is not about violence?

After all, white supremacy is just an idea, and an idea can't be violent, right? It takes a human to commit that violence, and any ideas that motivate them towards that violence are blameless, right?


If you look at much of what is in the koran (and the bible and torah), it is much MUCH worse than anything white supremacists have ever come up with.

Yet we give religion a free pass because it's politically incorrect to call a spade a spade?


Insanity.

[killbotfactory]

94. It's not JUST about religion

subjecting humans to war is a horrible thing and produces horrible results.

[JI7]

95. the guy who shot up the gay nightclub wasn't subjected to war. the US was a safe place

for his father to come and get away from the horrors in afghanistan.

his dad is anti gay and his complaints were about gays.

i don't see anything about him having opposed war.

[Democat]

102. His father didn't kill a bunch of people either

The American son did.

[Democat]

97. Hating gay people and those different from you

Often accompanies extreme religious beliefs. It must be a coincidence?

[KMOD]

100. Many agnostics practice the same hate.

And you can also find many religious people who are tolerant.

Mass murder, or terrorism in the name of that hate is a completely different thing.

[Democat]

101. People come to hate in different ways

Extreme religious views is one of them.

If you are a child and you are told that gay people deserve to die because god said so, that will make you hate gay people and want them dead.

[KMOD]

103. You are going off topic,

But I'll comment because it's important.

I not aware of any religion that states gay people deserve to die.

I am aware of governments who believe that though, and we do need to address that vigorously.

Hate and intolerance usually stems from ignorance and fear.

[JI7]

105. They do it in the name of religIon.

[Warren Stupidity]

108. weasel words: "many"

Here is what gallup reported:

The results show a very strong and generally linear relationship between these two variables. The percentage of Americans saying that gay or lesbian relationships are morally unacceptable is nearly at the two-thirds level -- 65% -- among those who attend church weekly. It drops to 15% among those who never attend church.

http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/182300/religion-sex-relationships-politics-indiana-arkansas.aspx?utm_source=RELIGION&utm_medium=topic&utm_campaign=tiles

Other surveys show very similar results. Also:

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/

The religiously unaffiliated, including of course atheists and agonstics are consistently less bigotted on a braod range of issues than believers.

[Doodley]

104. Let's call it what it is....and deal with it...

It is murder.

It is the murder of children. It is the murder of mothers. It is the murder of fathers. It is the murder of brothers and sisters. It is the murder of innocent people who never did harm to the murderer. It is the maiming of children.

The people responsible for recent attacks are not radical Islamic terrorists. Islam is not what they represent. They should never be legitimized. We should not be their recruiting sergeants by repeatedly reaffirming they represent any kind of cause or movement or religion. They will not terrorize us. We will not cower and change our freedoms and values for them. We will not divide our nation because of them. We are stronger than that.

They are mass murderers. That is the label that fits them. That is the label that needs to stick with them. While we might spend billions using the media to attack Clinton and Trump, it is time to spend money on attacking them. It is time to use the world's propaganda machinery to define who they are.

They are murderers of children. Their leaders are the biggest cowards on Earth who sit in the luxury of their mansions committing sins while encouraging their sick and gullible to become murders. Their cowardly leaders are laughing at their puppets. Their rich hypocritical leaders are making millions out of their operations, while having gay sex and eating pork, and they are responsible for the deaths of more Muslims than any other humans in history. This can all be proven in photos and video. Their leaders are treacherous and have played their followers like fools. It is time for their followers to wake up to reality and put an end to their treachery. This is the narrative that needs to be told. We cannot track down every would-be terrorist. This isn't only a war of bullets, it is a war of propaganda as well, and it must be won.

[Arazi]

106. The French govt is now saying Bouhlel was radicalized by ISIS' version of Islam

Source: CNN

Attacker in Nice was 'radicalized rapidly,' French interior minister says

By Peter Wilkinson, Jason Hanna and Euan McKirdy, CNN
Updated 1516 GMT (2316 HKT) July 16, 2016

(CNN) - The man who used a 20-ton truck to plow down hundreds of people in Nice this week, killing 84, somehow became radicalized very quickly and hadn't even yet shown up on any anti-terrorist intelligence radar, French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said Saturday.

"It seems that the attacker got radicalized very rapidly," Cazeneuve said of Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, 31.

The minister said Bouhlel had not been known to the intelligence services previously, and he noted that authorities now face a new scenario with individuals who are becoming very sensitive to the messages of ISIS.

Earlier Saturday, a statement from ISIS' media group, Amaq Agency, said that an ISIS "soldier" carried out the attack in Nice.

[TroyJackson]

109. i agree with you

too many people associate islam with isis. i know alot of muslim people who condemn isis