Police ought to be licensed, like airplane mechanics

[lostnfound]

You go to police school or get hired and trained, and you you earn your police license.

In the airplane business, mechanics burn and A&P license / certificate. if you are found to be pencil-whipping work that you're supposed to do, disregarding rules in a chronic and unsafe manner,you lose your license and are no longer an A&P. Because the public's safety is at risk.

An FAA review board, not employers, decide who loses their license.

Such a process drives home respect for public safety and certain standards of professionalism.

Right now, police are put on administrative leave during a review, and most of the time they are absolved and continue. But even when they are "let go", they go get hired by some other police department.

[tonyt53]

1. I've said many times that ALL cops should be subjected to the same screening a state cops are.

Rarely do we ever hear about any state cop/trooper being involved shootings like what happened last week. They are better screened. They screen out the people that want nothing more than to be a cop and carry a gun and have power over others.

[MurrayDelph]

8. Better yet, a national registry

as they do for nurses and teachers.

[emulatorloo]

2. Surely a pre-employment test could be used to uncover racism

Questions would have to be subtle.

I don't know much about police hiring procedures so maybe there's already such a thing. If so questions need update and revision.

Agree with what you say.

[loyalsister]

25. Implicit bias tests are pretty valuable

for people who are sincerely interested developing self awareness of potentially destructive unconsious biases, that is. If someone isn't interested in doing the work, it says "I'm a bigot, you're the one who needs to get over it."

[jmg257]

3. When I went through LE training, it included 440+ hours of classroom work

and 40+ hours of range time. There are also various civil service physical requirements (age, vision etc)
Of course a typical job interview and background check were included.


You become state-certified PO.

Those req'd hours are now up to 649.



Not sure if all states are the same/similiar, but it seems many are.

[lostnfound]

5. On what grounds can one lose one's state certification?

That's interesting.
I know this licensing wouldn't be a major solution but just a process to 1)!weed out bad apples and 2) set the expectation that bad apples are supposed to be weeded out.

[jmg257]

9. Great question - I do not know. Figure the municipality and state

are liable for your actions, so they do not usually put up with too much BS.

I'll have to do some research.

[Act_of_Reparation]

6. Who administers the training?

Local departments? State? Third party? Just curious.

[jmg257]

10. Here is info for NY

Training Requirements

Section 209-q of the General Municipal Law defines the training requirements for police officers. Title 9 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations of the State of New York, Part 6020 further specifies the training courses that police officers must complete. Topics and hours are listed for each course. All training must be approved by the Office of Public Safety before the course is scheduled to begin. A detailed description of training requirements is available here.

Section 2.30 of the Criminal Procedure Law defines the training requirements for peace officers. Title 9 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations of the State of New York, Part 6025 further specifies the training courses that peace officers must complete based on employment status and weapons classification, and further specifies the topics and hours courses that peace officers must complete. All training must be approved by the Office of Public Safety before the course is scheduled to begin. A detailed description of training requirements is available here.


I went to a County-based Academy. Various depts represented.
Usually local active POs (chiefs, sgts, etc) are instructors for most topics. Those teaching are certified as instructors also.

[Act_of_Reparation]

20. Interesting

I understand there is probably quite a lot of variance in how local police departments administer training, but I have to suspect that, in many cases, the classwork is directed by current or former leo's. I wonder if replacing county/local/state police academies with, say, Associate's or Bachelor's degree programs at community & state schools would break some of the habits or biases inculcated in recruits during training.

To be quite honest, I don't think current problems with police are related to training so much as they are related to broken departmental cultures. Because leo society is a closed society, it is very resistant to criticism from the outside, no matter how valid that criticism may be. It's a tough nut to crack.

[jmg257]

21. We had community training of course, bias trainng & whatnot.

But unfortunately there is going to be little done that can overcome some officers' pre-determined notions of race, sex etc.


What also may interesting is the...circle(?) that I think may occur...

i.e. We were a small rural dept with various main crossroads, interstates etc., on the edge of a large city with heavy minority populations.

I was in during the Rodney King beating/trial/riots. So while all that is going on in LA, what comes across the teletype but warnings that POC will be intentionally getting cops to pull them over so they can be targeted. Now figure this warning is going out to all depts across the country.

So what happens when you're a cop and you need to pull over a car with PoC occupants (likely whom have no idea about what/why anything may be 'amiss')? Well you call for back-up and now you have 2 or more likely 3 cars with lots of lights and lots of cops conducting what should otherwise be a routine traffic stop (which is taught to be hectic/dangerous enough) - "just in case".

Kind of got me wondering how occupants of the car must feel, and likely really isn't helping the overall situation. I know I would be offended if it were me, so wouldn't come away with a nice attitude re: LE

[Native]

13. They are not.

That's why I hope Hillary's proposal will come to fruition:

Making new investments to support state-of-the-art law enforcement training programs at every level on issues such as implicit bias, use of force, de-escalation, community policing and problem solving, alternatives to incarceration, crisis intervention, and officer safety and wellness.

[Igel]

16. But that's true if there's 1 state out of 50 that doesn't have requirements.

Texas does.

https://www.tcole.texas.gov/content/proficiency-certificates

I've known kids who did intern hours to help get accepted to programs.

Then again, what HRC said would be true even if all 50 states had programs, but 1 didn't have "implicit bias training." Implicit bias is one of those things that a lot of psychologists and even more advocates love, some psychologists diss, but which is like disparate impact: you get a number and that let's you think automatically know what's going on and attach a label. Quick, easy, and ... well, it's quick and easy and designed to get the right results.

[Native]

17. Had a conversation with a former detective from NY about Florida cops

he's appalled at the lack of training here in FL.

[jehop61]

14. Thank you

Many here lately are very misinformed. Police work IS a profession. We must weed out the bad cops, but support the good.

[lostnfound]

24. My comments weren't so much around having training as around having a license

A license is a livelihood and keeping it is a source of identity and pride. It separates the loss of a job from loss of a career.

If there's a pattern of poor judgment, it may not rise to being convicted of a crime, but be sufficient to lead reasonable people to conclude that the individual is not fit for the job.

Some of these cases have been cops who are suspected of similar behavior on multiple occasions.

[gordianot]

4. They are commissioned in Missouri after attending a Police academy.

In addition they are required to undergo a Psychological evaluation. Rejection rate is around 20% where my son works (he is a training officer).

Obviously Ferguson and many others are dismal failures.

[lostnfound]

7. Is it possible to lose one's commission?

Who decides?

[gordianot]

11. Yes by misconduct usually a criminal conviction.

[cloudbase]

15. And carry liability insurance.

Just like the A&Ps.

[lostnfound]

28. That would certainly have an impact

No way would it be affordable

[Igel]

18. Sounds like this is fairly common.

That this could have been found out fairly easily.

And doesn't have the result you claimed it would.

Perhaps because people don't know there are real requirements or certifications involved, don't make the effort to find out, but assume that if they don't know about them then they don't exist.

BTW, teachers are also certified. Most of the time during a review they're absolved. Not always. But "not absolved" doesn't always rise to the level of firing them.

Often it's also easier to give them a good review and tell them to push on than go through the hassle of firing them. Teachers are protected against vengeful administrators by certain regulations in pretty much every state. However, if a teacher is fired and loses his license, often he could head to another state and get certified. He'd have to commit perjury and deny he'd been fired, but there's no consistent national-level system for tracking these things.

The US was set up as a federation of states. To some extent the central governing authority has centralized even more authority, but there are still large areas where the President isn't in charge of every person in charge of every aspect of our lives. In other words, where there's varying levels of local control.

[lostnfound]

23. There are national standards for A&P mechanics

I'm not sure that national standards for policing would be a good idea, for exactly the issue you raise which is federalizing something that is local in nature.

I didn't make a claim about what it would do. But if your A&P license is revoked, no one will hire you to sign off maintenance work. If you lose your doctor license, there are consequences. Passing training programs IS something that is required in most states, but police officers aren't accountable for keeping a license of some sort. They risk their job but not their livelihood or there ability to get a job elsewhere.

[msongs]

19. Police unions should provide liability insurance against actions by their members nt

[Kang Colby]

22. Correct me if I'm wrong...but most police departments

require a polygraph prior to employment.

[lostnfound]

27. Idea is less about training than about a revokeable license

With standards not just for entry into the profession but for maintaining your license.

[deathrind]

26. This is a good idea.