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doc03

(35,297 posts)
1. When ever the 2nd Amendment issue comes up I always hear
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 10:42 AM
Jul 2016

we already have gun laws on the books that aren't enforced. Would someone enlighten me on these gun laws that aren't enforced.

 

Hoppy

(3,595 posts)
2. Well, in the past few months there have been instances where people have violated N.J. gun laws.
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:13 PM
Jul 2016

New Jersey laws are strict, probably among the most strict in the nation. Anyways, twice, people from out of state have had weapons in glove compartments. They were arrested and Christie overturned their convictions because they didn't know about N.J. laws.

Brian Aiken, Shaneen Allen were two instances.

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
5. About Brian Aitken...
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:54 PM
Jul 2016

On January 2, 2009 Aitken's mother dialed 911 while Aitken was packing his car to move to Hoboken.[7] His mother hung-up the phone before the call was answered. The Mount Laurel Police Department responded to an abandoned 911 call to find that Aitken had said he "didn't see the point in being here if he couldn't see [his] son". This vague comment relayed to the police caused them to call Aitken on his cell phone to determine his 'state of mind'.[8] Aitken told the officers he was not suicidal at which point Officer Michael Joy asked Aitken to return to Mount Laurel. Aitken asked if he was legally required to return to which Officer Joy responded that he did not have to return to Mount Laurel. Aitken thanked Officer Joy and stated that he would not be returning, however, minutes later Officer Joy made another call to Aitken notifying him that a 'General Alert' had been issued to New Jersey jurisdictions and that the Police would "pick him up" and "bring him back" if he did not return on his own. Officer Joy testified at trial that Aitken was "not free to leave until we're through with the matter" despite the fact that Aitken had not been charged with, or suspected of committing, a crime.[8][dead link]

Fearing a manhunt, Aitken returned to Mount Laurel and the responding officers searched Aitken's car and discovered three locked and unloaded handguns in the trunk. Aitken was subsequently arrested for possession of these weapons and was sentenced to seven years in prison by Judge James Morley.[9] Judge Morley's decision not to provide information to the jury regarding exceptions to New Jersey's relatively strict firearm possession laws became a source of controversy.[7] Gun laws in the United States vary widely by state and require expert knowledge to understand the differences.[5]

During the jury instructions, Judge Morley did not charge the jury with the exemptions to the New Jersey law despite arguments by the defense that Aitken met one of the exemptions and was therefore innocent of the charges. The jury returned three times requesting to be made aware of the laws that provide exemptions for lawful possession; however, all three requests were denied by the judge.[7] One of the jury requests read:


"Why did you make us aware at the start of the trial that the law allows a person to carry a weapon if the person is moving or going to a shooting range, and during the trial both the defense and prosecution presented testimony as to whether or not the defendant was in the process of moving, and then in your charge for us to deliberate we are not permitted to take into consideration whether or not we believe the defendant was moving?"[10]

In an interview with ABC News, Joel Bewley, a spokesman for the Burlington County Prosecutor's Office, stated:


"The defendant's attorneys presented evidence that his house was for sale and that at the time of arrest he was travelling from one residence in New Jersey to another."[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Aitken

And neither Aitken nor Allen were really the criminal most want prosecuted, were they?

doc03

(35,297 posts)
11. But Christe is a Republican, right? The Republicans and the NRA are always the ones that complain
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 08:03 PM
Jul 2016

about these laws not being enforced.

doc03

(35,297 posts)
12. Are you saying people bought guns after failing a background check? A gun dealer
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 08:10 PM
Jul 2016

would sell a gun if they never passed the background check? Why would a dealer risk
his business to do that? Do you have any evidence it happens on a regular basis?

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
13. People *tried* to purchase a gun, but the BG check failed.
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 08:21 PM
Jul 2016

There are thousands of these each year, and only a minuscule percent of them are ever prosecuted. In most cases, the person perjured themselves on a federal document.

doc03

(35,297 posts)
15. But if they failed to pass the check they didn't buy the gun, the system worked. But nothing would
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:11 PM
Jul 2016

would stop them from buying one legally from John Doe next door.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
16. They just committed perjury. Did they get prosecuted? Nope.
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:14 PM
Jul 2016

Here you have a prohibited person trying to get a gun. It would make sense to investigate and charge them, yes?

I mean, after all, if they're in jail, they can't 'buy one legally from John Doe', can they?

Free clue: It's illegal for them to buy one from John Doe, too. If you are a prohibited person, you are ineligible to possess a weapon in any case.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
8. It is a felony to lie on a Form 4473 when buying a gun
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 01:06 PM
Jul 2016

This is the form where you provide biographical information and then answer several yes or no questions regarding past criminal history or any disqualifying traits you might have. After this form is completed, you have to submit to a NICS background check. If you are rightfully denied, it is likely that you lied somewhere on the 4473 form. It is highly unlikely that you will ever be prosecuted for this. Authorities simply don't have the time. This is the excuse they use, anyways.

doc03

(35,297 posts)
14. But they were denied and weren't able to buy the gun, right? But if you are denied
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:06 PM
Jul 2016

all you need to do is make a private transaction, don't need a check for that anyway.

doc03

(35,297 posts)
17. Don't give me a link to gun laws. Give me an example of a law that
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:18 PM
Jul 2016

wasn't enforced that could have kept someone from buying a gun. If you lie on the form and you are denied
that is an example of a law that was enforced, they didn't get the gun. So what if they could have been prosecuted for lying on the form,
they didn't get the gun so why spend taxpayers money trying to get them for lying on a form.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
7. and your CHILDREN'S children, and THEIR children
Sun Jul 10, 2016, 01:03 PM
Jul 2016

we've heard it from the machine-worshippers themselves that they'd "rather bury their sons than bury their guns"; heck, they can always have MORE kids, and name 'em after what they really love

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