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Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:38 PM

 

Sorry, but I am not comfortable with local police forces using explosives on citizens

To be clear, I am not comfortable with police forces and their monopoly on violence, generally. And while I do understand and respect that their are rare instances in which deadly force may be required, it is far more often abused.

And I get that "dead is dead" and many, perhaps most, will say "why does it matter how he was killed if the killing justified?" Maybe I am unable to, at this point, articulate it properly. But, I am just not okay with domestic police forces using bombs against anyone.

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Reply Sorry, but I am not comfortable with local police forces using explosives on citizens (Original post)
morningfog Jul 2016 OP
Kelvin Mace Jul 2016 #1
R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2016 #17
geardaddy Jul 2016 #33
LuvNewcastle Jul 2016 #69
BlueStateLib Jul 2016 #93
tblue37 Jul 2016 #25
Javaman Jul 2016 #58
TeeYiYi Jul 2016 #108
Mika Jul 2016 #2
morningfog Jul 2016 #4
Mika Jul 2016 #11
eppur_se_muova Jul 2016 #39
Loki Liesmith Jul 2016 #66
Mika Jul 2016 #75
Loki Liesmith Jul 2016 #83
Statistical Jul 2016 #3
RobinA Jul 2016 #13
Ms. Toad Jul 2016 #89
getagrip_already Jul 2016 #97
oswaldactedalone Jul 2016 #5
840high Jul 2016 #72
alc Jul 2016 #6
tonyt53 Jul 2016 #7
Zambero Jul 2016 #8
lunatica Jul 2016 #32
LisaM Jul 2016 #9
Abnredleg Jul 2016 #16
getagrip_already Jul 2016 #68
Ms. Toad Jul 2016 #90
rollin74 Jul 2016 #10
billhicks76 Jul 2016 #27
Oneironaut Jul 2016 #99
Cayenne Jul 2016 #76
Bonx Jul 2016 #12
TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #14
FLPanhandle Jul 2016 #15
Kali Jul 2016 #18
Agschmid Jul 2016 #48
Oneironaut Jul 2016 #100
Mojorabbit Jul 2016 #111
Agnosticsherbet Jul 2016 #19
romanic Jul 2016 #20
awake Jul 2016 #30
milestogo Jul 2016 #43
awake Jul 2016 #56
milestogo Jul 2016 #61
Faux pas Jul 2016 #21
Motley13 Jul 2016 #22
rockfordfile Jul 2016 #23
geek tragedy Jul 2016 #24
rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #26
billhicks76 Jul 2016 #28
rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #31
billhicks76 Jul 2016 #41
rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #42
Ms. Toad Jul 2016 #92
Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2016 #29
rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #44
Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #34
jtuck004 Jul 2016 #35
rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #47
reign88 Jul 2016 #36
NoMoreRepugs Jul 2016 #37
milestogo Jul 2016 #38
rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #50
treestar Jul 2016 #79
HeartoftheMidwest Jul 2016 #40
The CCC Jul 2016 #55
HeartoftheMidwest Jul 2016 #64
StraightRazor Jul 2016 #84
pinboy3niner Jul 2016 #45
LineLineNew Reply .
Rex Jul 2016 #107
Recursion Jul 2016 #46
morningfog Jul 2016 #51
Recursion Jul 2016 #52
Joe the Revelator Jul 2016 #49
Cryptoad Jul 2016 #53
linuxman Jul 2016 #54
SunDrop23 Jul 2016 #63
sarisataka Jul 2016 #57
Ash_F Jul 2016 #59
Teamster Jeff Jul 2016 #60
Lil Missy Jul 2016 #62
Lance Bass esquire Jul 2016 #65
Schema Thing Jul 2016 #67
passiveporcupine Jul 2016 #70
redstateblues Jul 2016 #101
passiveporcupine Jul 2016 #102
X_Digger Jul 2016 #104
passiveporcupine Jul 2016 #105
TeeYiYi Jul 2016 #110
sulphurdunn Jul 2016 #71
JCMach1 Jul 2016 #73
Demonaut Jul 2016 #74
bvar22 Jul 2016 #77
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2016 #78
tavernier Jul 2016 #80
NCTraveler Jul 2016 #81
rock Jul 2016 #82
Calculating Jul 2016 #85
LWolf Jul 2016 #86
pintobean Jul 2016 #87
msanthrope Jul 2016 #88
ecstatic Jul 2016 #91
msanthrope Jul 2016 #94
BainsBane Jul 2016 #95
merrily Jul 2016 #96
Matt_R Jul 2016 #98
FXSTD Jul 2016 #103
sinkingfeeling Jul 2016 #106
Rex Jul 2016 #109

Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:40 PM

1. Welcome to the future of law enforcement

 

Wait until the armed drones arrive.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:03 PM

33. Goddamn it.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:32 PM

69. That is the stuff of nightmares.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:37 PM

93. A drone-powered machine gun

?quality=55&strip=all

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Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:43 PM

25. "RoboCop" might have been a documentary, like "Idiocracy.". nt

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #25)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:33 PM

58. you mean it wasn't? nt

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Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:09 AM

108. A good movie about...

...the moral dilemma of being an American drone pilot:



TYY

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:42 PM

2. The police bombed Operation Move in Phily a few decades age, dropped a barrel bomb...

 

Last edited Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:43 PM - Edit history (1)

... On their appt bldg where they were holed up.


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Response to Mika (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:43 PM

4. I am familiar. I know it is not without precedent.

 

I don't think that was at all right, either.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:49 PM

11. Oh, I agree 1000%. eom

 

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Response to Mika (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:12 PM

39. And that worked out so well ...

Burned down most of the block, as I recall.

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Response to Mika (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:02 PM

66. MOVE, not Push.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #66)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:42 PM

75. Thanks.

 

Corrected.


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Response to Mika (Reply #75)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 06:33 PM

83. No problem. I lived not too far from them

They were obnoxious but what happened to them was unconscionable.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:43 PM

3. I think the very fact that the Police even have explosive weaponry is part of a larger problem ...

... the militarization of the Police.

I served in the military you don't want the military (any military even a well trained one) policing your citizens. Our country was very aware of the dangers of using the military as a police force. So aware in fact they passed laws making it illegal for the military to act as a police force. Now we have done an end run around that by turning the police into a second military.

When I was in Iraq painted on the wall of our barracks was the phrase "have a plan to kill everyone you meet today". Now it didn't mean kill everyone but rather at any point in time at any situation be aware than anyone could be the enemy and base decision on that reality. It influences your decision making process and thinking. You look at everything differently. Why is that guy standing there? Why did that woman make a call right after we got out of the trucks? Where is the exits? How many "civilians" are between us and the rest of the convoy? If we took fire right now where could we fall back to? If I was the enemy and wanted to kill this squad how would I do it?

You don't want police pretending to be soldiers. Soldiers exist to wage war.

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Response to Statistical (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:52 PM

13. Well Said

Part of the problem is that after 9/11 the government was giving away all kinds of money to police forces for anti terrorist equipment. Hence, robot bombers.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:25 PM

89. Actually, they were giving away the surplus military equipment,

And one of the strings attached to the equipment was that it had to be used within a certain period of time (I believe 1 year). That accelerated militarization of local law enforcement because of the use it or lose it provision.

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Response to Statistical (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 08:10 PM

97. Most of this list...

Is either self defense or small arms. It's bad, but not evil. The problem with police having anti personnel mines, frag grenades, flame throwers, anti tank weapons, mortars, etc, is that not only do they rise to wmd status, they initiate a suburban arms raca.

If the Bundy's of the world see the police using them, they will find a way to get them. And then we will live in war zones. We will have our own blue lines.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:44 PM

5. It was him or them

and he wouldn't give up. His miserable life is now in pieces. Good riddance.

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Response to oswaldactedalone (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:39 PM

72. Agreed.

 

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:44 PM

6. I'm with you

Had to hear and read it quite a few times before I believed it really happened. I'll wait to hear the justification before final judgement and give a lot of benefit of the doubt to law enforcement on the ground but my initial response was "that can't be acceptable in any way."

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:45 PM

7. It kept others out of harms way.

 

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:47 PM

8. Did the shooter indicate that bombs were placed in other locations?

I believe that he did. And is the technology readily available to remotely detonate them? I understand that this is the case. Did LE make efforts to negotiate with him prior to using deadly force? Reportedly they did. Apparently he was not a rational person. Not an easy decision, to be sure.

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Response to Zambero (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:02 PM

32. Your point is excellent

The bomb wasn't to punish the terrorist. It was to stop him from killing more people. I can't stand in judgement of something I might do under similar conditions.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:48 PM

9. That actually struck me, too.

I didn't realize that police generally carried bombs (or had access to them).

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Response to LisaM (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:58 PM

16. They used a bomb disposal robot

and explosive charges are often used in bomb disposal.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:28 PM

68. it was a claymore, not a bomb....

MSNBC reported it was literally a claymore mine. An anti-personnel device. Military ordinance. Delivered at the request of the mayor (but don't know from where).

What the hell right does a local PD have with f'in anti-personnel mines? What else do they have? Cluster bombs? White Phospherous? Napalm?

They had other lethal options. They wanted the shooter dead. I get that. But using a friggin claymore is way out of bounds.



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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #68)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:29 PM

90. You might be surprised what else they have, courtesy of the 1033 program.

Here's some background: http://fcnl.org/issues/militarism/aclu_report_finds_concerning_trend_in_militarization_of_us_police/

Equipment available to local law enforcement agencies directly through the 1033 program, or for purchase by way of grants from the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice includes (but is not limited to): automatic and semi-automatic rifles, MARCbots (weaponizable robots used in Afghanistan), MRAPs (mine-resistant ambush protected vehicles), sniper rifles, flashbang grenades, submachine guns, drones, and armored BearCats. Over a third of the equipment attained through 1033 is brand new. Unsurprisingly, “War Comes Home” found that police militarization often leads to tragedies for civilian and police officers, an increased risk of unnecessary violence, the destruction of personal property, and the undermining of civil liberties.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:48 PM

10. whether by bullet or bomb. the sniper is dead

and that's a good thing

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Response to rollin74 (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:53 PM

27. Anything Used In Iraq Will Eventually Be Used At Home

 

Drones are just a matter of time.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #27)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 09:02 PM

99. Escalation works both ways, unfortunately.

Every bit of militarism brought home to our police also bleeds into civilian life. This would further drive an increasingly dangerous wedge between civilians and cops.

We need cops to be friends of the community, not an occupying army driving around in military vehicles with military hardware. It'll start a war.

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Response to rollin74 (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 04:09 PM

76. Team America! Fuck Yeah!

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:50 PM

12. I'll disagree and say this was well played.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:54 PM

14. Give the robot a promotion.

In this situation, it was a great way to stop the killer from doing more harm.

He would've offed himself eventually, anyway.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:58 PM

15. Bow & arrow, gun, boomerang, etc.; I'm just glad they stopped him

Before he could kill or injure others

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:08 PM

18. it is a tool just like a gun is a tool

the problem is the context of use. the militarization of domestic law enforcement is a real problem. I feel the same way as you. very uncomfortable with it. I understand the situation intellectually, but my gut is wary.

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Response to Kali (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:24 PM

48. Yup.

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Response to Kali (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 09:06 PM

100. I'm glad he's dead, but I'm worried about equipment creep

Today it's a shooter. Tomorrow it's someone who forgot to take their meds and locked themselves in their mom's room. As ridiculous as this sounds, police with new equipment will be tempted to use it in inappropriate situations.

I don't want the police using bombs, hellfire missile drones, or APCs with mounted .50 cal mgs. Letting the police use any equipment at their disposal is downright dangerous, no matter how good the intentions of giving them said equipment are.

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Response to Kali (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 01:05 AM

111. That is just how I feel

I understand it but it also makes me uneasy.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:08 PM

19. How many more dead cops would be a acceptible loss

To remove this sniper from his nest?

If it took 1 or 5 or 10 more deaths to remove him from his location, would that be acceptable?

Police carry explosoves as part of their bomb disposal tool kit.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:15 PM

20. So what would have been your solution?

It's easy to say you're uncomfortable behind a computer screen, imagine how the officers and the negotiator felt trying to get the gunman to surrender while knowing or not knowing if his bluff about planting bombs was legit.

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Response to romanic (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:57 PM

30. I do not know the details but could of the robot had a taser?

If the shooter was keep alive we could have learned more like where he got the guns and amno did any help him ect...

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Response to awake (Reply #30)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:21 PM

43. They will figure out where he got the guns and ammo fairly easily.

He said he acted alone. But how can you trust the word of someone who is trying to kill you?

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Response to milestogo (Reply #43)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:31 PM

56. exactly

If he was no longer some where where he could hurt anyone then just wait him out but if he was still shooting then something need to be done. I am just wondering if they were able to use a robot which is usually slow did they need to blow him up?

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Response to awake (Reply #56)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:41 PM

61. Yeah it sounds gruesome.

I had no idea the police had this capability.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:16 PM

21. Yeah

that blew me away! No pun intended. The true militarization of our police force.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:23 PM

22. The police had no choice

He could have killed dozens of others

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Response to Motley13 (Reply #22)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:27 PM

23. I agree to some of that.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:31 PM

24. there should be some rules around the use of high explosives

 

in this case it's hard to fault the PD for making sure that the villain in question didn't get a chance to claim any more victims

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Response to morningfog (Original post)


Response to rjsquirrel (Reply #26)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:54 PM

28. Anything We Murdered Iraqis With Will Be Used Here

 

As far as I'm concerned we are all going to Hell.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #28)


Response to rjsquirrel (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:18 PM

41. It's A Matter Of Time Before Drones

 

And as a nation we all have collective blood of innocents on our hands. Just because you don't live on a block in Iraq where families were murdered in the hundreds of thousands doesn't mean you can escape the karma for what was done in your name with your tax dollars. Iraqis did nothing to us and we destroyed them. We had a responsibility as a free people to stop our government and corporations from raizing that country. It's easy to dismiss out of mind out of sight maybe but reality catches up. We have a bunch of insane people running things and it's all just going to get more out of hand when we do nothing to make a more peaceful world. Idiocracy is already here.

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #41)


Response to rjsquirrel (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:34 PM

92. No - it's very muuch about weaponry, provided to local law enforcement, among others

courtesy of the 1033 program.

Equipment available to local law enforcement agencies directly through the 1033 program, or for purchase by way of grants from the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice includes (but is not limited to): automatic and semi-automatic rifles, MARCbots (weaponizable robots used in Afghanistan), MRAPs (mine-resistant ambush protected vehicles), sniper rifles, flashbang grenades, submachine guns, drones, and armored BearCats.


http://fcnl.org/issues/militarism/aclu_report_finds_concerning_trend_in_militarization_of_us_police/

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:55 PM

29. I think you are being unnecessarily weirded out, but ...

... there is the MOVE police fire-bombing in Philadelphia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing

In 1985, another standoff ended when a police helicopter dropped two bombs on their compound, which was a row house in the middle of Osage Avenue. This killed eleven MOVE members, including Africa and five children. Fire destroyed 65 houses and prompted widespread news coverage.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #29)


Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:05 PM

34. If you're 'sorry,' then you present your opinion with some doubt.



which in my opinion is warranted, since I am completely comfortable with cops eliminating an admitted
mass murderer with a bomb.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:05 PM

35. We've been using them on other country's children and families for so long,

 

it just seems natural.

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #35)


Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:07 PM

36. I'm all for it

 

Had they gone in, it's likely the dead and wounded count would have been higher. To me, this was the right call in a very extreme situation.

Plus, it worked perfectly, so I'm not sure what the concern is. If this becomes a common place tactic for dealing with everyday crime, I can see your concern, but in this case?

Job well done.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:07 PM

37. If remote controlled bombs are acceptable then drones

certainly cant be far behind for domestic police forces - my problem is the individuals controlling/manning these killing machines - do they have the level of training that the military requires for individuals that use these weapons?? That puts a whole lot of faith into the men and women in blue.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:08 PM

38. If the public were not armed so heavily there would be no need for this.

Take away the weapons that make law enforcement impossible.

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Response to milestogo (Reply #38)


Response to milestogo (Reply #38)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 05:29 PM

79. True

And cops would not be so quick to think they were threatened.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:17 PM

40. Thanks, morningfog.

I am being ripped on another thread (Dallas shooting: Suspect Killed By Police Wanted To "Kill White Officers" ) for bringing up this exact point.
NO ONE argues that what the shooter did was in any way justifiable. But he was cornered ( say reports; that might change ) and police negotiated with him for at least two hours.

It is DEEPLY DISTURBING that police would remotely blow that suspect up, without more of an effort to capture him alive, and bring him to trial....IF POSSIBLE.

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Response to HeartoftheMidwest (Reply #40)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:30 PM

55. Thanks, morningfog.

He was armed to the teeth threatening to kill any that entered. Would you want to be the first one in?

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Response to The CCC (Reply #55)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:48 PM

64. If he was truly cornered, as reports say,....

...I wouldn't enter. No need to. Just sit and wait him out.
Or try tear gas.
I just don't want this to be a situation were the police were hell-bent on revenge, and wanted him dead at any cost. And did everything possible to do just that.
We're supposed to be a nation of laws ( if you didn't gag on that, or fall out of your chair laughing, I'll continue.... ) and it would have been proper, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, to wait the suspect out and see if they could talk him out...get a loved one or a former Army buddy the suspect trusted ( ? ) to talk to him, and arrest him, if * p o s s i b l e. *

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Response to HeartoftheMidwest (Reply #64)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 06:42 PM

84. Yeah, I agree with you...

 

The other option (if he could no longer actually shoot anyone and was in fact 'contained') would be to wait for those things that make us human to interfere with his rampage - such as hunger, or sleep - they most certainly could have simply waited for him to give up. If he decided to end his own life rather than being taken alive then so be it, but I'm more or less sure that the police who had him cornered were vying with one another to be the one to blow his head off. They were probably pissed that a robot was used. No way was he going to be taken alive if they could help it.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:23 PM

45. That's perfectly fine...

...may we just confirm your address?

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #45)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:01 AM

107. .

 

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:23 PM

46. Weren't they explosives the shooter set up?

I see that as very different

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Response to Recursion (Reply #46)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:26 PM

51. That's not my understanding.

 

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Response to morningfog (Reply #51)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:27 PM

52. I've mostly been in airports for 24 hours so I'm probably wrong

But the last thing I read was that they detonated the bombs he had set, which killed him.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:25 PM

49. The shooter was given time to give himself up. He refused and continued to fire on police officers..

 

Nobody should have to die because a nut has a deathwish. In this instance, proper force was used.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:27 PM

53. Robo Cop?

Does this now mean that all idiots will be entitled to have one these RoboBombs under their 2th amend rights?

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:28 PM

54. I'm comfortable with whatever they had to do to kill the SOB.

 

So I suppose it evens out.

Would you go after him with a pistol and a "good luck!"?





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Response to linuxman (Reply #54)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:47 PM

63. What Linuxman said. Succinct. To the point. Discomfort? Give me a break. (nfm)

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:32 PM

57. I understand

That the use of explosives is stepping it up to another level.

However had they used a sniper to shoot him the end result would be the same, almost assuredly a kill. Would you have the same trouble with that?

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:37 PM

59. I think they were improvising because they did not know what else to do.

I am sure this was not part of the protocol.

I am not excusing it. Maybe it would have been better for them wait it out. I am sure they were afraid he would charge them eventually.

It is definitely something that needs to be discussed.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:40 PM

60. Just read a tweet......

"look at the bright side. If you are white the "bomb bot" brings you Burger King instead."

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:43 PM

62. Considering his actions earlier, and continued threats, it was the right thing to do.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:48 PM

65. If law enforcement is 100% sure that they have the right suspect in a mass

 

shooting in their sights. I say do what you have to. You can't wait to see what a disturbed maniac with a gun will do next.

In war shit goes south real fast and I bet if you were one of those Dallas cops last night you sure as hell felt like you were in one.

JMHO

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:04 PM

67. Well it may have been the FBI. They were there.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:32 PM

70. I would have preferred a robot be used to deliver a gas of some kind

to imobilize him.

But monopoly on violence? Are you kidding? It is gun owners in this country (and the NRA) who have a monopoly on violence.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #70)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 09:15 PM

101. He was given a chance to turn himself in. He didn't want to live.

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #101)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 09:17 PM

102. That doesn't change the fact

that there might have been a better way of dealing with this than blowing him up.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #70)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 10:15 PM

104. Knockout gases are mostly a hollywood invention. (Especially in an open air place.)

There is no magic smoke bomb that will quickly immobilize someone temporarily. Yeah, there are some gases that would work fast.. but they'd be deadly.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #104)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 10:22 PM

105. Yeah, porbably...it would be nice though

Even tear gas might have caused him to come out of his cover, if he didn't have some kind of mask.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #105)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:19 AM

110. Gas is a little unpredictable...

Think the Moscow Theater Hostage Crisis. In addition to the 40 bad guys, they accidentally killed about 130 of the hostages.

TYY

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:36 PM

71. I have concerns

 

about the militarization of law enforcement, but in this case they should have taken that fucker out with a flame thrower.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:41 PM

73. As a response to someone who may have a suicide belt, it makes sense

If it is suicide by cop, let's not get anyone else killed.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 03:41 PM

74. I hope the robot is ok

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 04:15 PM

77. Last year,

an infant was nearly killed by a SWAT Team that threw a Flash Bang grenade into the infant's crib.
New Low: Sheriff’s Office Claims Infant at Fault for SWAT Team Blowing His Face Apart with Grenade
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/infant-responsible-grenade-thrown-face/

I don't believe that our police need bombs and grenades (and Claymore mines!!!!) to Protect and Serve.
The potential for "collateral damage" is too high...in fact it is a certainty.
How many SWAT Teams raid the wrong house?
Oops!

There are other ways to get this job done.
The police have handled barricaded snipers in the past without using bombs.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 05:21 PM

78. The cops are supposed to be servants of the court....

 

Not killers.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 05:41 PM

80. I'm not comfortable knowing there is a nut walking around

with an automatic gun looking to shoot me. And if I had been in his target range last night, he would have happily obliged.

I bet the additional ppl that he didn't kill are delighted that bomb bott got to him first.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 05:43 PM

81. K&R Every word of it. Nt

 

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 05:49 PM

82. It's a similar case to the Death Penalty

I cannot approve of allowing the government to take it's citizens lives. You know politicians and you know how untrustworthy they are.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 06:51 PM

85. It's quite alarming

How is this really any different than just blowing the building up with a drone? It sets a bad precedent.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:09 PM

86. Neither am I. nt

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:16 PM

87. Police forces have a monopoly on violence?

 

Not even close.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:20 PM

88. I suspect there is a great irony here. You know who uses bomb robots? The military.

 

I think he knew what was coming when the thing rolled to him.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:33 PM

91. My problem with it is the destruction of evidence. A lot of questions

will never be answered.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #91)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:43 PM

94. Name one that wouldn't be answered. nt

 

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:45 PM

95. Police don't have a monopoly on violence

Gun proliferation has ensured that deadly violence is widespread. We have the highest homicide rate in the industrialized world.

The gunman had been shooting at police and whoever was in the vicinity. I do not believe your distaste for bombs is more important than the lives threatened.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:47 PM

96. In one speech, the Dallas police chief said his department was not going to militarize.

In another speech, he reported that "news" of the suspect's suicide was incorrect and that a bomb had been attached to a drone and used to kill the suspect. I am not sure if the two statements are consistent with each other or not. I need to think more about all of this when I can be dispassionate because, my emotions around death by cop have been strong and tangled for quite some time.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 08:55 PM

98. As long as the military and police disarm themselves first, gun control can happen. n/t

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 10:12 PM

103. I am very thankful we have officers that are comfortable doing what I'm not to save lives of innocen

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2016, 11:58 PM

106. Agreed.

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Response to morningfog (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:13 AM

109. They use bullets all the time. They kill you pretty dead too. Deader then dead.

 

He should have stopped shooting at them. Nobody expects the exploding robocop.

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