Black Lives Matter Protest Proves Pride Needs More Empathy, Less Prejudice

[KMOD]

Toronto's Pride Parade on Sunday was an historic success. An estimated million revellers were joined by, for the first time, a sitting prime minister as photos of a grinning, rainbow Canadian flag-waving Justin Trudeau conveyed the message that Canada is officially inclusive.

Officially, perhaps, but not always actually.

That became clear at the outraged reaction, in person, on social media and in old-timey media, to the sit-in by Black Lives Matter Toronto, a protest that lasted about 25 minutes after which their demands were met by Pride Toronto organizers and the parade progressed.

Twenty-five minutes is about the length of time we wait through commercials and trailers for a movie to start. Twenty-five minutes is how long it should have taken my six-year-old son and I to get to the Pride Parade from Parkdale rather than the hour-and-a-half that it actually took.

snip

But the members of BLM: Toronto are fighting for both, and that's what this brouhaha boils down to. The LGBT equality movement has been better for white people than it has been for people of colour because some folks are discriminated for more than just being LGBT.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/joshua-ostroff/toronto-pride-black-lives-matter_b_10801712.html

I thought I'd add this as a counter-balance to the discussion occurring in the LBN forum.

[Humanist_Activist]

1. I read the demands and they all, except one, seemed reasonable...

I don't understand this "banning" of police participation from Pride. Wouldn't we want people who are members of the police to participate in public events and show their support for the rights of LGBT and Black people. Hell, shouldn't we have Black police officers and others participate in BLM parades and marches? Wouldn't that be ideal, particularly if it can change the conversation on reasonable use of force, race disparties and other issues surrounding the BLM movement?

[Travis_0004]

2. If the demands are reasonable, why not present them to the organizers

Wouldn't that seem better than holding the parade hostage?

[Humanist_Activist]

3. That I don't have an answer for, it doesn't sound like that actual acts were reasonable...

These demands look to be well thought out ahead of time, unless they were refused at the beginning of the parade or during Pride planning meetings, this sit in was unnecessary.

[Travis_0004]

4. shutting down the parade was unreasonable

I don't really care about what else they did. The entire act was unreasonable.

[KMOD]

5. Why?

[Humanist_Activist]

6. I would say they were only unreasonable if the Pride organizers had no notice of the demands in...

the first place. If that's the case, then its just showboating, rather than actual activism.

If they did know about it, but ignored the demands, then the sit in was a reasonable response to that.

[KMOD]

9. Showboating?

That's an odd way to look at it. I'm quite confident that the Black Lives Matter movement has been very successful in getting people to not only listen, but to seek ways to improve the fractured relationship between the police and the black community.

I don't see how anyone could be caught off guard.

[Humanist_Activist]

12. I don't know what's happened behind the scenes, but, if the Pride organizers knew of the demands...

and either ignored them or kicked it down the line, then the sit in was a perfectly reasonable reaction to that.

If they were not aware of the demands, and the BLM organization decided to spring it on them through the sit in, then that's just showboating.

[KMOD]

13. I'm just not of mind to call action to address

very real and legitimate concerns, showboating.

[Chemisse]

29. I agree.

It will be interesting to find out what happened.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

38. Okay, so it would be alright for them or a different group

to shut down the Democratic Convention unti their demands are met?

[KMOD]

39. They were black LGBT members,

having their voices heard at an LGBT event.

The Democratic Convention is not an LGBT event.

It was a very peaceful, 25 minute sit-in. The parade was not shut down.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

45. LOL. The hairs we split in order to justify our ends.

I'm sure there are BLM nembers who are both LGBTQ and Dem.

Thanks for the evasion.

[KMOD]

46. I'm just shaking my head at your

denial of bigotry.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

47. I posed a question, and you evaded the answer.

There is no bigotry in my query so that's your second fail.

[Dems2002]

56. Are you opposed to groups protesting at the Dem Convention?

This seems like a fairly specious argument because you aren't comparing two equivalent things.

For myself, I sit in admiration of BLM. I think they have been pretty darn successful in a limited period of time by not adhering to social norms that seek to silence the oppressed. They are willing to speak truth to power in public, cause disruptions and discomfort, but almost every time, ultimately come out a winner. And after the dust settles, many of the people initially frustrated by a direct inconvenience can see the ultimate good that arose by their actions.

This is how to lead a movement that is focused on real change.

So many people right now want Bernie to sit down and shut up. It's the easier and more acceptable course of action. And yet, I see his fight focused around policy positions in the Democratic Party platform committee as genius, and I am so pleased by the efforts to force a floor vote on TPP.

Personally, I would absolutely support a protest by BLM during the Democratic State Convention against for-profit prisons and harsh prison sentences and stop and frisk actions.

i would also support protests by younger voters that push the Democratic Party to actually do something about onerous student loan debt and the high cost of college. I really dislike Hillary's current proposal. It's too cumbersome as are so many proposals by the Dem technocrats.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

62. If it shuts down the convention?

I'm sure the Dems would be all for '68 all over again...as many have made clear during this election season.



It's just to have one's voice heard, but I also have to question their motives and timing.

Sometimes it's more about the messenger than the message... and that's questionable.

[KMOD]

7. uniformed police, not police in general.

I think it helps to open up much need dialogue. Progress is being made but there is still a long way to go.

[Humanist_Activist]

8. But that's what we would want, uniformed police marching side by side with groups...

that have been traditionally marginalized and mistreated(putting it mildly) by police themselves.

Police departments have a lot to answer for, but wanting them to be more inclusive should be a good thing.

[KMOD]

10. Again, I think it keeps the dialogue open.

Otherwise everyone goes back to thinking everything is just fine and nothing changes.

[Humanist_Activist]

11. I don't see how shutting official police participation out of the event entirely is keeping the...

dialog open.

[KMOD]

14. It certainly has people talking, no?

And I don't believe they are asking for the police to be shut out. They are asking for no uniformed officers on a float. They have a whole year now to discuss this. I think that's a good thing.

[Humanist_Activist]

15. The issue is, what could possibly be the reason for such a demand? n/t

[KMOD]

16. Their legitimate concern of facing

continuing prejudice and unequal treatment from police.

It's all there in the blog. Did you get a chance to read it? It's a great read.

[Travis_0004]

17. Then have a dialogue with the police

I'm sure major cities have LGBT and I see nothing wrong with support for them, and allowing them to be in a parade.

This is an LGBT parade, not a black lives matter parade.

[KMOD]

18. There are black people who are LGBT

[melman]

24. Right

and there were no doubt many of them trying to enjoy the parade when these assholes interrupted.

[XemaSab]

35. There are black people who are LGBT cops!

Whoa! Did I blow your mind?

[KMOD]

36. Nope.

[Humanist_Activist]

19. Are they being mistreated by the police participating in the parade? n/t

[KMOD]

21. It's much more than a parade.

It's also a celebration of how activism has led progress towards equal rights for the LGBT community as well as a demonstration of how much more needs to be achieved.

I can think of no better place for black LGBT members to voice their concerns.

[tblue37]

26. Maybe BLM thinks the police are the ones showboating by turning up to "perform" their

tolerance and solidarity in a way the gets them good guy points, but without walking the walk during the rest of the year. IOW, maybe BLM wants the police to be prevented from using the parade as a PR prop without living up to that PR when it really matters.

[DonCoquixote]

20. re : https://twitter.com/BLM_TO

does anyone know what this south asian and blockorama buisness is? reason why, it sounds like there were soem issues already simmering before this, and if so, then we need to take this into account.

[KMOD]

22. I'll defer to our Canadian DUers,

but from what I've learned, some groups, like the South Asian LGBT community, feel like they are being pushed out of participation.

[JanMichael]

23. My favorite comment on the article.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Kevin Taylor · Regina, Saskatchewan

I agree that racism in the LGBTQ+ is an issue that needs to be delt with and addressed. But what no one seems to want to talk about is the pervasive homophobia in the black and Afro-Carribian communities that also needs to be addressed. While I am all for inclusion and was happy that BLM was going to be marching in Torontos parade what they did would be akin to LGBTQ+ activitists stopping an Afro-Carribian parade making a bunch of demands including one that no religious organization can have a float in the parade because it makes some LGBTQ+ people uncomfortable. There is just a bunch of double standards and hypocracy here that make it difficult for me to have empathy for BLM in this situation.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Maybe I just don't get it. There are tons of parades for groups that are totally intolerant of the "other" (like the above comment about the hateful and deplorable treatment of LGBTQ people in some communities that hold regular rallies and parades) and where is BLM? Do they only disrupt groups that they know or assume are their allies and not ones that will attack them? I do not count Trump rallies as they are high profile and obvious targets.

[KMOD]

25. ugh! I usually avoid the comments sections like the plague,

but since you brought it here, I do not agree with Kevin Taylor.

LGBT members of the Black Lives Matter movement are LGBT, and have every right to no only be there, but to have their concerns heard.

Is this (Afro-Carribian)* parade also an LGBT event? No. And therefore his attempted comparison makes absolutely no sense.

*in parenthesis because I'm not familiar with this event.

[metroins]

28. I'm sorry, no

If you want to bring attention, have your own parade or go protest somebody who's "oppressing" "you".

Targeting random parades, likely of people who "support you" is inconsiderate and in my opinion disgusting because of the recent Pulse shooting.

There's a time and place for things and this sit in doesn't help.

[KMOD]

30. I'm straight,

and white. But that doesn't stop me from getting it.

This isn't a random parade. It's a pride parade. The activists were black LGBT members.

There was no better time, or place to have their voices heard.

[metroins]

32. If anything

It turns me off of their movement.

There's something to be said for not attacking your allies or you'll find yourself all alone.

[KMOD]

33. They weren't attacking their allies.

Their allies were supportive.

The vast majority of people who are freaking out over this peaceful and productive sit in are straight and/or white.

I have a hunch that you have never have been an ally. You have not given a legitimate reason for you to be outraged by this.

[AllTooEasy]

27. LBGTQ community should disrupt every Black History Month Celebration

...bring awareness to the homophobia and related violence in the Black community. As a heterosexual Black man, I'm ashamed of how the general Black community treats and talks about the LBGTQ community. I look forward to this payback!

[KMOD]

31. That wouldn't make any sense.

Black History Month is not addressed towards homophobia. The Pride parade is.

[Behind the Aegis]

57. It should be BLM that does it.

If they are wanting to talk about "intersectionality", then they should do the same, with a list of demands, in a similar situation. I am guessing were such an event to happen, there would be less straight white people telling the GLBT community how they should or shouldn't act.

[romanic]

34. Another BLM attention seeking charade yawn

[KMOD]

37. It really saddens me to see folks on a liberal, progressive board,

call the Black Lives Matter movement a charade.

Clearly, we have a long, long way to go.

I simply do not understand why some are so many are dismissive of their very real concerns.

Something has gone terribly wrong when folks in our party do not understand the importance of equal rights, civil rights and true and unbiased justice for all.

[Ace Rothstein]

40. Because they frequently act like a bunch of assholes?

Some of their goals are commendable but when they go about fucking with people just trying to get through their everyday life, then lose a lot of support.

[KMOD]

41. ^^^^

Exhibit A.

How exactly have they "effed" with you life?

[King_David]

42. Pride Toronto is backing away from the promises made to Black Lives Matter Toronto

Pride Toronto is backing away from the promises made to Black Lives Matter Toronto during a protest that temporarily shut down the Pride Parade.

“My priority yesterday was to make the parade move,” Mathieu Chantelois, the executive director of Pride Toronto, told CP24 the following day on July 4, 2016. “Frankly, Black Lives Matter is not going to tell us that there are no more floats anymore in the parade.”

Instead, Chantelois said it is up to the community and the membership of Pride Toronto to determine whether or not the police should march in Pride.


http://www.dailyxtra.com/toronto/news-and-ideas/news/pride-toronto-backtracks-from-black-lives-matter-promises-196966

[KMOD]

43. Yup. Here's hoping the community is smarter

and stronger than Mathieu Chantelois.

[King_David]

44. Seriously ? Mathieu Chantelois is our rep.

[KMOD]

48. Yup. And he's a white, gay man who is caving to the mob rule,

since he's never himself faced the LGBT Black Lives Matter movement concerns.

That's weak.

I'm happy he can find celebration in the Gay Pride advances and enjoy the parade.

I'm disappointed he leaves out others who have not yet reached the acceptance he has.

[King_David]

49. And who are you to judge an LGBTQ leader?

Are you oppressed ?

I believe in an earlier post you said you are white and Straight , and yet you think you can judge an LGBTQ leader ?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

51. FFS, we actually agree on something.

No need to respond.

[King_David]

52. .

[KMOD]

54. Are you black?

Do you deny that black LGBT members face more discrimination than you?

You don't need to be white or black, straight or gay, to understand the injustice.

Injustice is injustice, and all of us can see it.

[Bluenorthwest]

60. Straightsplaining gets tiresome.

It just does.

[yardwork]

63. You know, I've been holding back, but I'm officially pissed off now.

I am gay. My spouse is gay. She is a person of color. She is in law enforcement.

So I think I have at least as much right to speak on this topic as you. And I strongly disagree with what you're saying, and I think it's because you really don't know much if anything about the history of oppression of LGBTQ people - especially LGBTQ people of color and most especially transgender and non-gender conforming people of color - by law enforcement. Not to mention the fact that any LGBTQ person who wanted to be in law enforcement, I don't know, maybe to make life a little better for people, could not serve openly without risking their job and possibly their lives.

Therefore, you don't understand what a significant, life-changing improvement it has been to see police officers and firefighters in uniform marching in gay pride parades, hosting floats and tents.

So, please. Just stop.

[Dr. Strange]

65. If I may...

Thank you.

[yardwork]

67. Thanks.

[KMOD]

66. I don't believe I have disparaged

the LBGT members of the police department. Do you not agree that more dialogue is needed between the black LGBT community and the police? I am thrilled about the progress that has been made, but we still have a long way to go. No members of the LGBT community should feel intimidated about participating. Opening dialogue is the way to hopefully reaching understanding.

[dilby]

53. I am done with them.

I supported BLM in the beginning and still support their cause but I will not support them hijacking every social cause.

[KMOD]

55. What do you believe the Black Lives Matter movement cause is?

[justiceischeap]

58. I'm no "friend" of the police but I will say this in support of police at Pride parades

At most Pride parades in major cities I've attended, the police that participate in the actual parades are generally LGBTQ+ cops. From what I understand, it isn't easy being a gay cop. It may be getting easier but it hasn't always been this way. So why do the needs and concerns of LGBTQ BLM community supersede those of the LGBTQ cops? I also know in smaller cities of Pride parades I've attended the local cops were always very good about keeping protestors at bay and having a good time with the folks there to enjoy the parade. I've also never seen any black person at a Pride parade harassed by local cops. I'm not saying it has never happened but I've never seen it happen personally.

I'm just concerned about BLM folks telling gay cops they don't have a right to participate in these parades in uniform when for the longest time, the LGBTQ community worked with police to stop treating us like shit.

[yardwork]

61. I am gay and you are correct.

There is a long history of abuse directed at LGBTQ people by police. And it was certainly impossible for any gay person to serve openly as a police officer - if they were found out, their lives were in danger.

Things are better now. It is difficult to express what it means to have police officers in uniform openly participating in gay pride celebrations. It's an incredible step forward.

Many LGBTQ people - including gay law enforcement - are people of color.

[Odin2005]

59. BLM has degenerated into just another extremist "kill all pigs" group

They are fitting in to exactly the kind of stereotyped loony extremism that discredits the entire movement to fight police brutality.

[KMOD]

68. Can you provide evidence to support your claim?

[Odin2005]

69. Their utter hatred of the idea of uniformed police in the parade?

It seems like the very existence of police in uniform in the public square offends these people.

[LostOne4Ever]

64. I feel they should have brought up their issues with pride before the parade

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=3 color=#009999]Many of their requests were reasonable and had they brought them up they could have addressed them without interrupting the event or sewing disunity.

How would BLM feel if its own African American LGBTQ members interrupted one of their events or a black pride type event to protest the bigotry of LGBTQ people in the African American Community? All of these things are for good causes and there should at least be an effort to work together.

That said, with regards to the requests by BLM I feel request #8 is mistaken. There are gay law enforcement officers and to tell them they can't have a float or wear their uniforms on their own float defeats the whole point of pride. To show that LGBTQ people have value, to be proud of who one is in face of adversity. To show that LGBTQ people are a part of culture and have jobs, lives, and loved ones just like anyone else.

Police officers, just like black people and the LGBTQ community are all apart of are culture. They all have value and the intersectionality between all three should be celebrated.

I can't help but feel this controversy plays right into the hands of those who oppose both BLM and Pride. It sets groups against themselves. Pride should by all means be cognizant of the issues black and trans-people face and address that. They could, for example, possibly do this by making sure the floats are significantly separated, or other similar actions. But, it shouldn't shut down all law-enforcement representation, and should have given pride a chance to fix these things before protesting.

The only way to beat the bigots is to work together. Allies in law enforcement speaking out can help both groups. It can help fight against LGBTQ bigotry that exists in our police departments and gives support to passing reforms to end violence by police against the black community.

We are all stronger together than apart. Always.[/font]

[AtheistCrusader]

70. +1

Well said.

"How would BLM feel if its own African American LGBTQ members interrupted one of their events or a black pride type event to protest the bigotry of LGBTQ people in the African American Community? All of these things are for good causes and there should at least be an effort to work together"

Prop8 in California was not passed without ~50% support by white people, being more numerous at about 65% of the state population, but when ~70% of a minority group vote to injure the civil rights of another group, something bad is going on and needs to be addressed.

Targeting the Pride event was, in my opinion, poor aim. It should have been the other way around.

[ashtonelijah]

71. Screw BLM. I'm done defending them. How dare they do this so soon after Pulse...

Waltz in, invited as honored guests, shut down a gay pride parade, and demand that LGBT law enforcement be shoved back in the closet and that the very people who came to the rescue and ensured that dozens more lives were not lost in Orlando have their representation stripped away.

The arrogance is astounding. I am done with this organization. They've gone from being against police brutality (which I sure as hell am against, having lost a brother to police brutality) to being anti-police.

How dare they come to our parade and hold it hostage until their demands are met when they haven't done a thing for our people.

I've defended them for years, despite misgivings. This is the final nail in the coffin. I am done defending this disorganized band of arrogant jerks who don't really give a damn about the things they claim to care about. They don't think Black Lives Matter. They just think their loud arrogant mouths matter. How dare they.