The Brexit Rejection of Neoliberal Tyranny

[stupidicus]

I'd say it's pretty much indisputable that the vote would have never arisen but for the 1%er/bankers wars in the ME past and present, so they're doing a pretty good job getting CONverts coming to their defense with insistence and an unbreakable focus on, the proximate cause for the vote results being predominantly the ugliness of white Christian on brown Muslim bigotry/racism, as opposed to their fingerprints being all over the EU murder weapon.

The arguments that neglect or seek to diminish their role reek with the same stench the Bush defender turds do in the issuance of his Pontius Pilate license in regards to the state of the ME and the formation of ISIS, and are no doubt deeply appreciated by the 1%ers.

The popular "narrative" is working great in insulating them from their role and responsibility.

Did I mention that Pilger is a poopyhead?

A forewarning came when the Treasurer, George Osborne, the embodiment of both Britain’s ancient regime and the banking mafia in Europe, threatened to cut £30 billion from public services if people voted the wrong way; it was blackmail on a shocking scale.

Immigration was exploited in the campaign with consummate cynicism, not only by populist politicians from the lunar right, but by Labour politicians drawing on their own venerable tradition of promoting and nurturing racism, a symptom of corruption not at the bottom but at the top.

The reason millions of refugees have fled the Middle East – first Iraq, now Syria – are the invasions and imperial mayhem of Britain, the United States, France, the European Union and NATO. Before that, there was the willful destruction of Yugoslavia. Before that, there was the theft of Palestine and the imposition of Israel.

The pith helmets may have long gone, but the blood has never dried. A Nineteenth Century contempt for countries and peoples, depending on their degree of colonial usefulness, remains a centerpiece of modern “globalization,” with its perverse socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor: its freedom for capital and denial of freedom to labor; its perfidious politicians and politicized civil servants. https://consortiumnews.com/2016/06/26/the-brexit-rejection-of-neoliberal-tyranny/

[MohRokTah]

1. "Neoliberal tyranny"

[applegrove]

2. For sure neoliberalism banking explosion, due to lax regulations on financial instruments,

caused austerity that has lasted for a decade. The average Britain over the age of 50 saw no benefit from being in the EU. And all that immigration looked like it would only make things worse. I am not excusing xenophobes. I am saying they did not get that way in a vacuume but because of the financial bubble.

[MohRokTah]

3. I reject the notion such a thing as "neoliberalism" even exists. eom

[applegrove]

4. Oh my god. It is PNAC all over again.... the movement that dare not speaketh its name.

[MohRokTah]

7. Say what you like.

Terms like "neoliberalism", "oligarchy" and "corporatist" are nothing more than rhetorical nonsense with no real meaning whatsoever. Anybody using the terms loses all credibility with me and I won't take anything they have to say seriously.

Before you trot out Carter, yes, he has lost all credibility with me and I no longer take anything he has to say seriously.

[tk2kewl]

11. neoliberalism has been used to describe an economic philosophy

For more than 80 years

Your deliberate attempt to "muddy the waters" us a fail

[MohRokTah]

13. It has no meaning any longer.

It is now a catch all for "you are not leftist pure enough for me, you neoliberal!"

So no, I don't take talk of neoliberalism seriously and never will.

[tk2kewl]

16. Maybe that's what you hear, but that's not what the OP is about

Things like the Investor-State Dispute Settlement rules of our "trade" agreements *are* neoliberal threats to democracy

[stupidicus]

19. they're using the same argument rightwingers do with the racism charge

it's been rendered meaningless from overuse despite it's continuing and undeniable applicability

[stupidicus]

14. hilarious ain't it

it's all so easily refuted that a fifth grader could, but the "authority" proclaiming that seemingly can't while hiding behind a "won't".

[Dustlawyer]

53. That's ok, your stances on these issues has the same effect on the rest of us.

Oligarchy is very real whether you give it an credibility or not. The corruption of our political system is real as well. When you allow legalized bribery of elected officials what do you expect is going to happen?

[stupidicus]

6. oh come on now. You don't expect that to overcome emoticons, do you?

neoliberals don't do cause and effect very well because they are the cause for most of what ails us

[applegrove]

10. I know. Really.

[Rex]

5. The EU should have been a little less authoritative toward Greece, instead they kicked Greece

like a wounded dog. That kind of action has negative consequences some simply do not have the intelligence to comprehend. They have no idea what the aggregate is, their world is all about them.

And that is why we are here today, watching heads implode because neo-liberalism doesn't work. It has never worked. Ultra-libertarian fantasies always end in government ruin.

[stupidicus]

9. indeed, this is as "Big picture" an issue

as we'll ever discuss or debate here, and I am perfectly happy with the small/shallow thinkers IDing themselves.

[Rex]

18. At least Cameron is done, stick a fork in him.

What a way to end a career. Of course it was non-binding so they can backtrack for 2 years out of their vote. Which I bet in time they will.

[stupidicus]

21. I think you're right about that

I think regret and further education will likely lead to that remedy.


I found that story about people looking it up after the vote just absolutely unbelievable. Apparently apathy and ignorance are alive and well in proportions rivaling here there...lol

[Rex]

25. It must be Trump, he is like a stupid hurricane wherever he goes at distance

he can still cause a sudden drop in IQ points. I admit my own ignorance of the situation, I had no idea the UK was that far gone. I've always known the Tories to be our GOP counterparts, I just never thought I would see them go full Tea Party!

Still, the overall situation could have been handled better by the EU, which currently is listed as a 'hot mess'. We shall see how Greece gets treated in their third round of negotiations with EU investment bankers.

I am currently more concerned with what is going on in Venezuela, they are having a full blown meltdown due to oil prices dropping off a cliff. Sometimes nationalizing your biggest resource can come back to bite you in the ass.

[stupidicus]

37. he's contagious

the rightwingnut id personified.

Indeed, it is a mess in Venezuela right now, which hopefully will lead them to diminish that economic dependence on oil -- as a start. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44963.htm I'm sure it's nothing our interventions can't cure....

[malaise]

51. They are all done

That's the logical outcome of this. These fugging elitists and 'wannabes' who still think they're on the playing fields of the English public school and Oxbridge enjoying the lofty days of murdering colonials for profit in the name of 'white supremacy' have finally brought the chickens home to roost in their own backyard.

One of these days they'll wake up and realize that (like the rest of us) they are merely a colony of America.

[nationalize the fed]

8. k&r for Pilger

John Pilger tells the truth and many people don't like it.

A Nineteenth Century contempt for countries and peoples, depending on their degree of colonial usefulness, remains a centerpiece of modern “globalization,” with its perverse socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor: its freedom for capital and denial of freedom to labor; its perfidious politicians and politicized civil servants.

and

The most effective propagandists of the “European ideal” have not been the far Right, but an insufferably patrician class for whom metropolitan London is the United Kingdom. Its leading members see themselves as liberal, enlightened, cultivated tribunes of the Twenty-first Century zeitgeist, even “cool.” What they really are is a bourgeoisie with insatiable consumerist tastes and ancient instincts of their own superiority.

Exactly

[stupidicus]

12. I'm sure he thanks you

and indeed, they don't like it and are largely left blubbering/muttering....

[840high]

41. yes

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Your first sentence is highly disputable. The immigration is primarily from Eastern Europe

not refugees from the Middle East (of whom there are very few in the UK). No, it wasn't about "white Christian on brown Muslim bigotry/racism", it was about people not wanting Polish builders or Romanian agricultural workers in Britain.

That could be the worst piece I've ever seen Pilger write; it's largely irrelevant, and is instead an excuse for him to refight his (usually valid) objections to Iraq. It's totally uninformative.

[stupidicus]

17. then by all means

explain the value of the "they hate muslims" narrative which has adorned this board since that day. It's been all about a Trump/islamophobe/leavers equivalence, ain't it?

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. No, it hasn't been about Muslims. Perhaps you saw the word 'immigrants' (and sometimes 'Trump')

and thought it must be about Muslims. A more relevant comparison for the US situation would be Trump's hatred of Mexicans, and his wall. The primary cry from the Brexiters was "we want control of our borders", and how they'd stop the free movement of labour that is a condition of being in the EU, and which has resulted in many Eastern Europeans working in the UK. There was some scaremongering about Turks - they want to join the EU, but still need visas to come to the UK, and can't just move here to look for work, but a few Brexiters tried to make it sound as if that's about to happen.

As an example why it isn't primarily about Iraq or Syria: it was in January 2013 that Cameron promised to hold the referendum if he won the 2015 election. That's before ISIS was in the news at all (their first major success, taking Fallujah, was about a year later).

[stupidicus]

28. no

I really don't wanna research/run down the material, I just recall thinking upon reading this http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/did_trump-style_islamophobia_break_up_the_european_union_video_20160626 that some were exaggerating the role islamophobia had.

So, in response to your effort I guess the only thing I can do is ask a simple question -- would the vote result have differed with that element completely outta the equation.

If it would have differed, my "indisputable" claim stands.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. It might well have had the same outcome without the Middle Eastern turmoil

The UK does have complete control over immigration from outside the EU; what it has to allow under EU rules is EU citizens coming here to work. That's what 'control of the borders' was about. There are very few Muslim EU citizens coming here, but a lot more from Eastern Europe. Farage will sometimes say anti-Muslim things, andbut you did claim it was 'predominantly' about anti-Muslim bigotry, when it wasn't.

UKIP started back in the 90s, and has built up its support since then; it was the 2004 accession of 10 mostly Eastern European countries that saw the big increase in their vote (1999 European election 7.0%; 2004 16.1%), and then when Romanians and Bulgarians were allowed to work freely in the UK (that was 2014; 2009 election 16.5%, 2014 26.6%).

[stupidicus]

36. which seems less than definitive

in terms of refuting that point.

DID the neolibs have their finger in that creation pie http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/1356047/Euro-federalists-financed-by-US-spy-chiefs.html

Actually, THAT point -- needless, illegal warmongering -- was just one aspect of the neoliberal agenda that has resulted in something concrete like the immigration numbers, but the vote itself was likely far more impacted by perceptions behind the islamophobia itself.

I'm inclined to think that the economy was umbrella under which all other things were considered. ANd given who's had control of the reins for so long now, all this nitpicking that excludes them and their various actions past and present like "was it predominantly just xenophobia or only that applied to Muslims, lets the fox with the feathers in their mouths completely off the hook.

Pilger is hardly the only one making this argument about the role ME, etc, interventions had

HUDSON: It’s a combination. The right wing was, indeed, pushing the immigrant issue, saying wait a minute, they’re threatening our jobs. But the left wing was just as vocal, and the left wing was saying, why are these immigrants coming here? They’re coming here because of Europe’s support of NATO, and NATO’s war that’s bombing the near East, that is destabilizing the whole Near East, and causing a flight of refugees not only from Syria but also from Ukraine. In England, many of the so-called Polish plumbers that came years ago have now gone back to Poland, because that country’s recovered.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=16612

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. Hudson doesn't even live here. He's riding his own hobbyhorse far worse than Pilger

He is, to be frank, full of shit. No, this is not about NATO, nor about Russia or Ukraine. He is delusional - "she turned over the arms to ISIS, to Al-Nusra, and Al-Qaeda" - and with things like that, he's talking mainly to attack Hillary and Obama.

I think I have refuted your claim about it being "predominantly" about the Middle East. You could look at the UK group to see how we've been discussing it, or post there and get some other opinions, if you want.

[stupidicus]

42. of course, they all are, unlike you eh

and you can't refute a claim I didn't make.

CONverts coming to their defense with insistence and an unbreakable focus on, the proximate cause for the vote results being predominantly the ugliness of white Christian on brown Muslim bigotry/racism, as opposed to their fingerprints being all over the EU murder weapon.

that "predominantly" was applied solely to the opinions conveyed by the "the islamophobes did it" crowd, and that's it. The ME warmongering issue impinges largely upon the immigration issue alone, and neither I, Pilger, nor Hudson think or have claimed that the immigration issue is the only neoliberal policy past or present

A Nineteenth Century contempt for countries and peoples, depending on their degree of colonial usefulness, remains a centerpiece of modern “globalization,” with its perverse socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor: its freedom for capital and denial of freedom to labor; its perfidious politicians and politicized civil servants.

in need of an indictment.

The neoliberal warmongering/nation building is inextricably intertwined with just about everything under the sun of the neoliberal world and Brexit sort, and your declarations about those two who seem to be making exactly that case in the tying of the immigration issue from the ME to the vote result

Is he lying here?

But the left wing was just as vocal, and the left wing was saying, why are these immigrants coming here? They’re coming here because of Europe’s support of NATO, and NATO’s war that’s bombing the near East, that is destabilizing the whole Near East, and causing a flight of refugees not only from Syria but also from Ukraine. In England, many of the so-called Polish plumbers that came years ago have now gone back to Poland, because that country’s recovered.

and are you denying this

The problem began in Libya. Once Hillary pushed Obama to destroy Libya and wipe out the stable government there, she wiped out the arms--and Libya was a very heavily armed country. She turned over the arms to ISIS, to Al-Nusra, and Al-Qaeda. And Al-Qaeda used these arms under U.S. organization to attack Syria and Iraq. Now, the Syrian population, the Iraqi population, have no choice but to either emigrate or get killed.

or insinuating that he's claiming that she deliberately and willfully gave them arms to make up with besmirchments what you lack in arguments? You're just disagreeing here, and not refuting a damn thing. That's exactly what happened with the arms and the cause for the exodus.

Hudson and Pilger both appear to be arguing that the ME warmongering served as the catalyst/cause for the immigration issue

HUDSON: It’s a combination. The right wing was, indeed, pushing the immigrant issue, saying wait a minute, they’re threatening our jobs. But the left wing was just as vocal, and the left wing was saying, why are these immigrants coming here? They’re coming here because of Europe’s support of NATO, and NATO’s war that’s bombing the near East, that is destabilizing the whole Near East, and causing a flight of refugees not only from Syria but also from Ukraine. In England, many of the so-called Polish plumbers that came years ago have now gone back to Poland, because that country’s recovered.

becoming the game changer in the vote. You appear to be arguing that the ME fiascos had no role at all of any discernable size or consequence.

Sorry, I'll go with the big boys and ignore the obscure internet warrior

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. One of your 'big boys' is saying Hillary armed ISIS, and is attacking Obama

If you're going you appeal to him as an authority, you're using the Brexit situation to attack the US Democratic party with a ridiculous lie.

You're claiming the Brexit vote was caused by Middle East policy. No, it's about immigration, from Eastern Europe; ignore the 'big boys' you love so much, and read up about UK politics for the past 20 years. I've given you a bit; find out more, and actually look at the relationship between Britain and the EU, rather than Pilger's general reasoning of why he doesn't like Britain's politicians, past or present.

Is he lying here?

But the left wing was just as vocal, and the left wing was saying, why are these immigrants coming here? They’re coming here because of Europe’s support of NATO...

He's wrong; possibly so wrong that you would call it 'lying'. No, the left wing was nowhere near as vocal, and they didn't link it to NATO.

Am I denying that Hillary armed ISIS? Of course I'm denying that. It's a complete load of bullshit. I'm not 'insinuating that "he's claiming that she deliberately and willfully gave them arms "; he is claiming that, in black and white. If you think "that's exactly what happened with the arms", there's no hope for you: you would be claiming Hillary committed treason. I remind you this is a Democratic site, and now in general election mode; you're not allowed to spread lies about Democrats.

"Hudson and Pilger both appear to be arguing that the ME warmongering served as the catalyst/cause for the immigration issue" - and they're both wrong. The immigration issue has been going since the Eastern European countries joined the EU, and Britain was one of the first countries to give them full free movement of labour.

"You appear to be arguing that the ME fiascos had no role at all of any discernable size or consequence. " - pretty much. Farage used claims about refugees a few times to fan the flames of fear, but the argument is mostly about whether EU citizens get to come to Britain to work without restriction, what benefits they get, and whether they cause problems for the health service, schools, or housing.

[stupidicus]

59. sorry, neolibs and and their apologists get no say

particularly when all they have is largely dishonest or downright asinine efforts to besmirch their betters. Hudson wasn't saying that was her intent with the weapons, he was saying that was the result -- a screwup you are apparently fully behind.

No, I'll stick with the big boys who have an avid interest in taking your neolib kind down

.Rabbi Michael Lerner - The vote by a majority in the UK to exit from the European Union (Britain exiting, now called Brexit) is actually a cry of pain by the working people of Britain, and a reflection of the growing pain that will shape the social and political lives of our world in the coming decades till that pain is fully addressed. Unfortunately, the media and the ruling elites refuse to take responsibility for the global mess they’ve been making. Instead they seek to put the blame on a sudden surge of ultra nationalism and hatred of immigrants. But this is a distorted picture that seeks to blame working people’s fears on their own reactionary ideologies, and misses the way the ruling elites of the society, the !% of richest people and their millions of allies in the upper levels of banks and corporations, media, academia, law, government and politics, who have developed a neo-liberal economic strategy that has resulted in massive loss of jobs and a triumph of the values of materialism and selfishness in daily life, are actually now trying to blame everyone else for the global mess they have made.

I'm in good company, so run along eh.

[auntpurl]

23. There are two groups the xenophobes in Britain hate

1. EU workers - these are mostly Eastern European and the prevailing argument is "they're taking our jobs and overrunning our services" despite the fact they work thankless jobs for long hours and little money, and are generally young and healthy so don't use the NHS much.

2. Muslim migrants - these are mostly fictional, especially in places that voted Leave. But you wouldn't know it from the UKIP campaign, which basically had them making English primary school children pray to Allah, performing honor killings in the streets of sleepy English villages, and raping every English woman they come across.

Edited to add: the first narrative is FAR more the root of the xenophobia than the second. The second is mostly people who are already irredeemable racists.

[stupidicus]

30. yep, I understand that

it's still unclear as to whether my "indisputable" claim is irreparably undermined -- which is what I'm defending here.

The question is was the islamophobia role so small proportionally or otherwise to have no effect on the outcome.

[auntpurl]

33. In psychological research, you don't do a straight interview

with someone who may choose to ascribe their motives dishonestly in order to paint themselves in a better light. In other words, you don't ask someone direct questions about their own racism, because most people understand it makes them look bad and try to cover it up. What you do instead is an indirect form of qualitative research, like observation.

So. There are 3 answers to your question.

1. There are thousands of examples of flat-out anti-Muslim sentiment and people stating it proudly from the Brexit vote. However, even in the thousands, these numbers are still statistically insignificant.

2. There IS a statistically significant number of people who said "immigration concerns" were their number one reason to Leave. But it is hard to separate the two potential narratives for that as in my previous post. Presumably there are a number of those "immigration concerns" voters who are picturing the fictional Muslim swarm but thought "immigration concerns" sounded better.

3. Judging by observation alone (in terms of the tone of the campaign and the dogwhistling involved) my GUESS would be anti-Muslim sentiment is statistically significant.

So yes, I think it had an effect on the outcome. However, I disagree with the economic arguments you are making in the rest of your post.

[sufrommich]

20. Some on the left have acquired some awfully strange bedfellows. nt

[stupidicus]

24. our side suffers from the same disease as those on the right

just in lesser proportion.

The "neoliberailism" that so many wanna deny after having long largely if not wholly supported it is inevitably showing it's monster side and leaving them nowhere to hide. It's that 5 stages thingy encroaching against much resistance.

[Teamster Jeff]

26. Like explaining water to a fish

[LWolf]

58. Yep.

Right here in this thread I'm seeing all of the typical talking points used ad nauseum to put down anything and everyone left of the so-called "center" trotted out to attack any criticism of neoliberalism...now that neoliberalism has been pulled from the shadows into the light of day.

[sufrommich]

29. "Neo liberalism" seems to have morphed into anyone

or anything deemed not pure enough to some on the left who are starting to very much resemble their cohorts on the right. I'll just leave it at that.

[stupidicus]

32. yep, that's the get around rightwingers use for the racism, etc charges

that in no way eliminates its objective/denotative meaning, as a mere improper usage never does.

If you support neoliberal policies you should say so proudly

[Odin2005]

48. I'm a god-damned radical socialist and even I have been called a neo-liberal...

...simply because I am unwilling to defend reactionary gutter-populism.

[Hekate]

27. John Oliver's 15 minute takedown of Brexit is not to be missed. Murdoch soppressed it...

...in the UK before the vote, which is too bloody bad.

It was posted here last night -- you should view it and get back to us.

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. On that, Murdoch is not guilty

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7959039 . British TV rules of political balance would never have allowed it during an election campaign without an equivalent pro-Brexit piece to oppose it.

But, take heart - Oliver is on a subscription channel here, and so the UK viewership is tiny - it would have only have been seen by a tiny proportion of people anyway.

[TubbersUK]

31. "The Brexit Rejection of Neoliberal Tyranny" ? Hardly!

What the hell are the UK Conservatives then if not neo-liberals with tyranical tendencies - according to definitions contained in the blizzard of recent posts like this.

Whatever they are, they've just been handed a bigger stick to beat us with.

I'm sick to the back teeth of this juvenile garbage.

[applegrove]

40. The Conservatives in the UK were working with Europe to try and get brilliant and comprehensive

Last edited Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:26 PM - Edit history (1)

banking regulations to stop the worse excesses of neoliberalism that caused the financial bubble and 10 years of austerity. It was too late and those over 50 lost faith in the EU.

[TubbersUK]

43. Well

I'm baffled by your defence of the the UK Conservatives.

Strange bedfellows indeed.

[silvershadow]

39. That headline would be my characterization of it. nt

[Recursion]

44. Wow, I think you literally hit every square of the nouveau-gauche buzzword bingo card there

Well done.

[JustAnotherGen]

57. +1 :-)

[stupidicus]

62. as opposed to what, a trump-worthy word pie like yours

well done

[craigmatic]

45. EU is just big government. They made some unpopular decisions in the past 3 years so Britain left.

It doesn't make the UK right or smart for doing this. This was probably a bad decision. I doubt their economy recovers this decade if they don't keep some ties to the EU.

[pampango]

46. IF (a BIG IF) Brits voted Leave to reject Neoliberal Tyranny, they ain't seen nothing yet. Boris

Johnson (of turning the UK into a "hyper-capitalist island freed from EU regulation", a "neoliberal fantasy island&quot , the current favorite to become the new Conservative prime minister is the king of "neoliberal tyranny" or, more accurately, 'conservative tyranny'.

Something tells me that the polls which indicated that conservative opposition to immigration was the main issue for the right is pretty accurate.

EU countries have some of the highest pay, strongest unions and most equitable incomes in the world. When the 'Donald Trump' of the UK takes over there won't be much of those anymore.

There is a reason that British unions, Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders all supported the UK remaining in the EU - and it wasn't because they support "neoliberal tyranny".

Responding to the unhappiness of your face by cutting of your nose is not an effective tactic.

[Odin2005]

49. A wacko website siding with literal Fascists against "neoliberal tyranny"...

[stupidicus]

60. my my, hollow declarations about websites etc

accompanied by the always asinine laughing emoticon defense.

I suppose that's what passes for an argument in the ....

too funny, what will you do for an encore genius, repeat yourself?

[joshcryer]

50. The EU neoliberals are itching to make bad trade agreements for the UK.

If you think that the EU is going to come to the UK with good faith you are insane.

[Her Sister]

54. I am so tired of the over use of the NEO prefix

I call it NEO-SHIT!

[stupidicus]

61. your effort here certainly is

well done

[Her Sister]

63. There is also what I like to call "post-shit!"

I hated in college how Professors made us read all kinds of neo- and post- this and that!

Feel allergic to the whole she-bang!

[DetlefK]

55. Oh, for God's sake! Britain is more neoliberal than the rest of the EU!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Please note that I used "for God's sake", because using the word "fuck" in an adult conversation is a big No-no here on the new DU.)

[LanternWaste]

56. What is the objective and peer-reviewed evidence that leads you to this faith-based premise?

"I'd say it's pretty much indisputable that the vote would have never arisen but for the 1%er/bankers wars in the ME past and present..."

What is the objective and peer-reviewed evidence, directly relevant to the British vote, that leads you to this faith-based premise? Or was it merely an unsupported allegation?