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Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:02 PM

For once, let's all ignore the "gun apologist bingo" comments, and brainstorm

on what each of us can do to change the fact that gun massacres are a daily occurrence in the USA, and only in the USA.

When events like this happen, the conversation always quickly devolves into the "it's not a clip it's a magazine, it's not a magazine it's a clip" crap. We all know what the arguments are ("you have to solve the mental health problems before you can touch gun laws," "all of you individuals are too small to go up against the gun lobby and will never make a difference so you shouldn't even try," "it is impossible to define which guns need to be outlawed," "are you going to outlaw cars too?" etc), and we all can guarantee that those who make these arguments will be swarming threads and trying to derail the conversation.

For once, please, let's just ignore them COMPLETELY. For once, please, let's talk about what we can do that is constructive and positive. For once, let's not waste our energy and our outrage in answering the nonsense.

Other than contacting EVERY ONE OF ALL OF OUR LEGISLATORS and demanding stricter gun control, what else can we do as individuals and as a group?

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Reply For once, let's all ignore the "gun apologist bingo" comments, and brainstorm (Original post)
Squinch Jun 2016 OP
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #1
Squinch Jun 2016 #9
Quackers Jun 2016 #2
Squinch Jun 2016 #6
NickB79 Jun 2016 #33
Quackers Jun 2016 #34
NickB79 Jun 2016 #35
Squinch Jun 2016 #3
HassleCat Jun 2016 #4
Squinch Jun 2016 #7
HassleCat Jun 2016 #15
LiberalEsto Jun 2016 #5
Squinch Jun 2016 #8
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #10
brer cat Jun 2016 #24
Quackers Jun 2016 #11
Squinch Jun 2016 #13
beevul Jun 2016 #18
Quackers Jun 2016 #20
beevul Jun 2016 #23
Quackers Jun 2016 #25
Squinch Jun 2016 #22
One_Life_To_Give Jun 2016 #12
Squinch Jun 2016 #14
Squinch Jun 2016 #16
etherealtruth Jun 2016 #17
mopinko Jun 2016 #19
Squinch Jun 2016 #21
brer cat Jun 2016 #26
Squinch Jun 2016 #28
Brickbat Jun 2016 #27
Recursion Jun 2016 #29
Squinch Jun 2016 #30
Recursion Jun 2016 #31
Squinch Jun 2016 #32

Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:03 PM

1. You're right, could you post the Bingo card? Its very very helpful

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:18 PM

9. I can't find the bingo card, but after another shooting spree, we compiled a list here:

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:06 PM

2. A buy back program? nt

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Response to Quackers (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:09 PM

6. I think we should keep a list of these types of measures and have them at hand

when we do talk to the legislators.

I'll watch the thread and make a list and post them all together in another thread.

Thank you.

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Response to Quackers (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:16 PM

33. Plausible, but very expensive

300 million guns in the US. Several BILLION high-capacity magazines (not an exaggeration).

Market value for the average gun is several hundred dollars, and $10-$30 per magazine. And yes, you must offer a reasonable price or no one would bother turning in their guns.

To make a dent in the number of guns in circulation, you'd literally need many BILLIONS of dollars to fund such a buy-back program.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #33)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:21 PM

34. Even more than that.

Once a buyback program starts, prices for guns will skyrocket. I would say you would be looking at several thousand dollars to buy back a gun at that point.

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Response to Quackers (Reply #34)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:27 PM

35. Good point. Guess buybacks are out

Another problem I've seen with gun buyback programs is that far too often they don't discriminate in what they pay for which weapons, because many of the employees aren't trained in firearms. A rusty .22LR that probably won't even fire anymore can get the same payout as a brand-new Glock. I've even heard of realistic-looking BB guns being accepted by mistake, and guys clearing out pawn shops for cheap old guns to turn a profit at buybacks.

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:06 PM

3. Gomez posted a list of organizations that are working on reducing gun violence.

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:09 PM

4. Calls for gun control.

 

Everyone demands action, and we get a rush of a thousand different ideas, many of which are unconstitutional, some of which are ineffective, and so on. We need to focus on what will work, and be constitutional. The difficult thing is, some of the measures that meet these criteria will not do anything much about mass shootings. We can do more to identify unstable people and keep guns way from them, and that's OK with the constitution.

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:10 PM

7. But I think anything that reduces our "gun culture" will have a secondary effect on mass shootings.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:34 PM

15. Maybe

 

But we are a violent nation. We see violence as a foreign policy tool. We maintain a highly professional fighting force to go anywhere and kill anyone who gives us grief. We threaten other nations who want nuclear weapons, even though we are the only nation to ever use them against anyone. And so on.

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:09 PM

5. We need a massive effort to vote out the gun shills in government n/t

 

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:14 PM

8. How would you start this in an organized manner?

I am thinking some viral list of NRA political donations.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:19 PM

10. +1, that would be a start... dem and rep should be known IMHO

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Response to Squinch (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:19 PM

24. Good.

Publicly identify the ones who are tools of the NRA.

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:21 PM

11. Guns for college?

If the goal is to get as many semi-auto weapons off the streets as possible, then they should have the biggest payout compared to other weapons. For example: one semi-auto rifle for one free quarter/semester of college. Of course the exchange rate would require more thought, but the biggest issue would be the for-profit colleges. They wouldn't care for this.

These ideas are also coming from someone who doesn't have anything against guns. I use to own several. I've also used many weapons systems while in the Army and in Iraq. Now days, I don't consider myself stable enough to own one. The idea of self harm is very real for me. That's why I have a service dog in training.

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Response to Quackers (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:26 PM

13. I am sorry to hear about

your difficulties. And I don't have anything against guns, per se, either. But there is no getting away from the fact that every country that cracked down on gun ownership ended or drastically reduced the incidence of massacres.

Guns for college is a really interesting idea.

Guns for a tax break? Guns for infrastructure job interview?

That's a very interesting concept.

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Response to Quackers (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:10 PM

18. "If the goal is to get as many semi-auto weapons off the streets..."

 

If the goal is to get as many semi-auto weapons off the streets as possible...


Wouldn't it be important if that was the goal, for the weapons to actually come from the streets, not from someones gun safe?

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Response to beevul (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:53 PM

20. They asked for ideas that were actually legal

So I provided one.

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Response to Quackers (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:10 PM

23. Ok, so by "off the street", you meant "out of private hands".

 

Why didn't you just say so.

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Response to beevul (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:30 PM

25. Anytime you take guns off the street

They're leaving private hands. I'm simply pointing out that the only way to legally do so is if people voluntarily give them up. If they don't want to give them up, then that's the end of that.

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Response to beevul (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:58 PM

22. No.

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:22 PM

12. Change the Culture

Specifically Macho culture as it's typically guys who do this. Don't reward guys for being successful and winning. Instead reward them for lifting up others and shame them for violence in any form.

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Response to One_Life_To_Give (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:29 PM

14. I don't know

how to not reward people from being successful and winning, but I do think that part of what has to happen is a change of the culture that makes guns socially unacceptable like cigarettes and, much farther back, like heroin and cocaine (which were widely accepted at one time.)

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:43 PM

16. Another great Gomez thread: what Obama tried to get passed in 2013. This is a comprehensive

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:04 PM

17. Thank you for the advice to ignore

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:52 PM

19. stop domestic violence.

 

it is a cancer on our society where we are told family is the cornerstone of civilization.
this guy beat his wife.
enough said.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:56 PM

21. I just saw that. Not surprised.

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:38 PM

26. I don't know how wide spread this is,

but here in No GA it is quite common to see guns for sale literally by the side of the road at yard sales and flea markets. Zero background checks or accountability. Outlawing casual sales combined with wait times would be a small step, but everything helps. I especially worry about easy accessibility in cases of domestic violence and hate crimes.

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Response to brer cat (Reply #26)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:42 PM

28. This is such a ridiculous situation. Yes. What you say "casual sales" need to be stopped.

Background checks and registration. Like when you buy certain dangerous chemicals, which are much less lethal than guns.

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:38 PM

27. Change the culture of stigmatization against getting help for one's self or family when it comes

to mental health or domestic violence. Change the culture of violence through governmental, private and nonprofit work to break the cycle of violence in families. Respect and support anti-bullying initiatives instead of laughing them off. Learn about how the culture of toxic masculinity hurts everyone, including men. Fix our child welfare infrastructure. Fund education in a way that fewer kids fall through the cracks and they all get the help they need. Ensure the "American Dream" doesn't make us compete for jobs, education and health care, but instead provides a basic, life-supporting minimum that we are all free to build upon without taking away from someone else. Continue to work to break down communication barriers among all classes, cultures, ethnicities, faiths, races, genders, political beliefs -- all of them. Dig into data to see what works, and what doesn't; what can be scaled to our enormous and heterogeneous population, and what we should modify or reject. There's a lot of work that remains to be done. It's going to take a long time.

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Response to Squinch (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:57 PM

29. Reclassify semi-automatics under the NFA. It would take a generation or so

But it would make owning them much more of a pain in the ass and eventually change the production calculus and the markets.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #29)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:01 PM

30. What about that would take a generation? The ones already out there grandfathered into

the current classification?

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Response to Squinch (Reply #30)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:03 PM

31. Right; Constitutionally we could only restrict their transfer

(That's not even the 2nd Amendment; it's the 5th since it would be considered a "taking".)

If it required a Federal license to buy a new or used semi-automatic, fewer people would buy them, and so fewer would get made.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:10 PM

32. With enough popular support, I wonder if you could apply some form of eminent domain. Take them for

use by the military and replace them with other kinds of guns or compensate people well for the guns taken, owner's choice, OR the owner agrees to comply with the new rules for the gun.

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