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Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:32 PM

Ali called Joe Frazier ugly, Uncle Tom, and a gorilla, and probably showed the least sportsmanship..

of any athlete over the last 50 years. A lot of the poor sportsmanship you see today is a direct result of people glorifying Ali's taunting, insulting, and bullying of others.

He was, ironically, to sports what Donald Trump is to politics.

Sure, we agree with the guy's political beliefs, but let's not deify someone who by many measures was an absolute bully (and I'm talking about outside the ring).

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Reply Ali called Joe Frazier ugly, Uncle Tom, and a gorilla, and probably showed the least sportsmanship.. (Original post)
MadDAsHell Jun 2016 OP
jberryhill Jun 2016 #1
BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #11
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #38
H2O Man Jun 2016 #76
BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #82
H2O Man Jun 2016 #85
BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #86
MadDAsHell Jun 2016 #15
jberryhill Jun 2016 #16
MadDAsHell Jun 2016 #20
MasonDreams Jun 2016 #64
Act_of_Reparation Jun 2016 #113
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #21
jberryhill Jun 2016 #59
Name removed Jun 2016 #60
scscholar Jun 2016 #53
Corporate666 Jun 2016 #109
philosslayer Jun 2016 #34
Tsiyu Jun 2016 #103
RandySF Jun 2016 #51
obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #74
Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #89
Adrahil Jun 2016 #99
Mike Nelson Jun 2016 #2
raging moderate Jun 2016 #54
Mike Nelson Jun 2016 #69
brush Jun 2016 #3
MadDAsHell Jun 2016 #5
brush Jun 2016 #8
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #12
jberryhill Jun 2016 #13
BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #14
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #17
BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #25
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #28
MadDAsHell Jun 2016 #30
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #37
BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #33
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #36
brush Jun 2016 #22
Shoulders of Giants Jun 2016 #4
MadDAsHell Jun 2016 #6
Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #7
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #10
beachbum bob Jun 2016 #9
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #40
TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #18
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #24
MadDAsHell Jun 2016 #26
TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #29
malaise Jun 2016 #19
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #23
malaise Jun 2016 #32
Stinky The Clown Jun 2016 #27
still_one Jun 2016 #83
chillfactor Jun 2016 #31
still_one Jun 2016 #84
edhopper Jun 2016 #35
BronxBoy Jun 2016 #39
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #41
TM99 Jun 2016 #42
MadDAsHell Jun 2016 #43
Blecht Jun 2016 #45
ornotna Jun 2016 #47
scarletwoman Jun 2016 #50
ismnotwasm Jun 2016 #55
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pintobean Jun 2016 #57
MrsMatt Jun 2016 #72
rockfordfile Jun 2016 #78
Brother Buzz Jun 2016 #98
LineLineReply .
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Are_grits_groceries Jun 2016 #63
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oswaldactedalone Jun 2016 #48
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #49
H2O Man Jun 2016 #79
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #95
Logical Jun 2016 #80
RandySF Jun 2016 #52
Logical Jun 2016 #58
Lint Head Jun 2016 #61
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #68
BootinUp Jun 2016 #70
obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #73
RandySF Jun 2016 #92
Bradical79 Jun 2016 #93
KG Jun 2016 #94
Bucky Jun 2016 #111
Greybnk48 Jun 2016 #96
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Blue_Tires Jun 2016 #105
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NaturalHigh Jun 2016 #114
Downtown Hound Jun 2016 #115

Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:36 PM

1. That was all part of the showmanship

Ask those people he taunted what they think of him.

Boxing promotion is theater.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:48 PM

11. Frazier wanted to kill him and never got over it

He wasn't seeing the business angle in Manila.

Ali, to his credit, apologized and was a much bigger person than Joe in a lot of ways, but his behavior in the run-up to Manila was unhinged.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:41 PM

38. My gf is from Manila

She's ten years younger than me. When she saw the rubber gorilla thing she was aghast. But Ali sorely regretted it and apologized many times over for it.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:46 AM

76. Incorrect.

Joe held a grudge for a long time, it's true. But he also "got over it." (I'm friends with Marvis, and know the way the relationship between Joe and Ali healed.)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #76)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:01 AM

82. I respect and believe your comment

It's also true, I think you would agree, that Joe was deeply scarred by Ali's treatment of him and that he paid an enormous personal price for the brand of cruelty that was inflicted on him. And it's true that, without Ali, Joe Frazier would be about as remembered as Jimmy Ellis or Ron Lyle. It was a complicated relationship to say the least.

My main objection to the post to which I responded, and others like it in this thread, is the notion that Joe was in in the joke and accepted it as business as usual. We both know that's untrue.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #82)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:17 AM

85. Agree & disagree.

While Smokin' Joe's legend is enhanced by his trilogy with Ali, the boxing community recognized him in the late 1960s- early '70s as a great champion. (My buddy Rubin Carter beat Jimmy Ellis; it's not realistic to imagine him fighting Joe.)

What is being overlooked is the impact of boxing on Joe. Use the Carmen Basilio & Ray Robinson model: one smaller, tough guy coming forward, against a more skilled boxer-puncher. The smaller man takes blows to the forehead; the taller man to the back of the head (among other places).

Long-term impact: the taller man has damage to the "hind-brain," with balance, nerves, etc. The shorter man's damage may not be as easily identified by the public. But, for those of us who study boxing and brains (one of my cousins who assisted me was the head of neurology at a major university), the pre-frontal damage is recognizable: shorter temper; inability to identify others' "motives"; substance abuse; and entrenched grudges.

Similar to Joe with Muhammad, Carmen never forgave Ray. In fact, he was happy to hear Ray died a miserable death. Now, I was among 4 generations of my family who knew Carmen very, very well. It was better to re-direct conversations with him, than to hear the old tapes re-playing.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #85)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:27 AM

86. I remember Eddie Futch saying after Manila

My guy is a great fighter, but so is the other guy, and he's 6 feet 3, in so many words.

You are a treasure here for many reasons, H20 Man, not least, for me, your knowledge of and experience with boxing, I know you'll be writing an OP on Ali at some point and look forward to it.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:53 PM

15. So calling a black person a gorilla is OK if it's theater or "for show"?

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Response to MadDAsHell (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:56 PM

16. Yes, Ali was a noted racist

Did someone pee in your wheaties?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:59 PM

20. Are you denying that he called another black man a gorilla?

You seem uncomfortable with admitting that fact.

It's not OK, and anyone who thinks it is is one sick puppy.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:57 AM

64. Is Bill Maher a racist for calling Trump an oragatange?

99 percent of chimpanze DNA is the same as that of our species. These primates we are talkin about get to live in the woods naked, and we spend our time in traffic jams producing global warming. We breathe, drink, and eat the poisons that we make.

If you ask me, these primates aren't just smarter than Trump they're smarter than us.

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Response to MasonDreams (Reply #64)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 11:02 AM

113. "If you ask me, these primates aren't just smarter than Trump they're smarter than us."

Maybe primates aren't spending their time in traffic jams or warming the earth because they're too busy killing children.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:59 PM

21. I hope you forgot the sarcasm tag.

But I will concede Ali was complex.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:13 AM

59. Do you honestly believe in this context it needs a sarcasm tag?


Did you know Mahatma Gandhi served up some of the best pit barbecue the world has ever seen?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #59)


Response to jberryhill (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:04 PM

53. How could he have been a racist?

 

WTF! Seriously, WTF!

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Response to scscholar (Reply #53)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 04:33 AM

109. Uhh, how couldn't he have been?

Is there some magical star above some folks' head that prevents them being racist?

Look up the definition of the word. Anyone can be racist. Anyone.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:18 PM

34. Also called him an uncle Tom

 

Which was an attempt to turn the African American community against him. But again, it was all theater. Too bad Mr. Frazier wasn't in on the joke.

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Response to philosslayer (Reply #34)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 05:03 PM

103. He was angry because Frazier refused to use his chosen name

so he hit back. Personal insult>>>>>personal insult.

Obviously a lot of youngins never heard of Gorgeous George, or professional wrasslers. The former knew how to market fights (my dad still cracks up about his antics) while the latter talk smack all the time about one another. It's part of the game.

Frazier forgave.

Ali wasn't perfect, but he was an icon, and he had more integrity than most.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:58 PM

51. All this after Frazier loaned Ali a substantial sum while he was banned from boxing.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:17 AM

74. Boxing and MMA promotion is theater -- exactly

I'm a hardcore MMA fan, and the "game before the game" is part of the fun of the fight. especially when done right (Conor McGregor and Nate Diaz, Johanna Champion, etc. in MMA).

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #74)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:38 AM

89. It's dramatics. But actual theater does not rely on the injury of the artists nor does it celebrate

 

dehumanization as a form of promotion. Ali got his cues not from actual theater but from wrestlers such as Gorgeous George. It's theatrics, but it is not theater.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:31 PM

99. I agree, but....

 

It's an absolutely HORRIBLE example to young people to behave that way. I've never been a fan of the man because of that kind of mean-spirited churlishness.

Was he a great boxer? Absolutely. Maybe the "greatest."

But a great man? Maybe later in his life, but during his active career, he was glorifying bullying.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:37 PM

2. Also...

...while I did not realize it in my youth, I have a problem with "boxing" as a sport. I think he became a better person over the years.

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Response to Mike Nelson (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:15 PM

54. Yes, Muhammed Ali showed that he could learn, change, and grow.

In his youth, he was somewhat of a braggart, a clown, and a pugnacious fool. However, as he grew older, he learned, changed, and grew. And eventually he transcended himself and stood tall against the worst evils of his time, and he probably saved many lives by his example and his steady opposition to these evils.

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Response to raging moderate (Reply #54)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:06 AM

69. You put that very well...

...we all start foolishly and, hopefully, take the same path through life.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:37 PM

3. Ali was a master of hyping his fights. We knew what that was all about back then

It was all about promoting the fight ó sort of like "playing the dozens".

He and Smokin' Joe reconciled later and they were cool with each other.

Ali went to Frazier's funeral.

You're misreading that a bit.

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Response to brush (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:39 PM

5. I disagree, Frazier was bitter to the very end. And rightly so.

No one should be called an Uncle Tom, especially an African-American from a poor sharecroppers family. Or a freakin gorilla.

But if Ali thought it would make him more famous, he was willing to say anything and hurt anyone.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:42 PM

8. And how do you know Frazier was bitter to the very end?

I've read numerous reports that that wasn't the case.

Like this one from George Foreman, who I'm sure knew both better than you.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/story/2011-11-15/foreman-on-ali-frazier/51227814/1

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Response to MadDAsHell (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:50 PM

12. I am glad you are perfect so we won't get to judge you by any bad moments.


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Response to MadDAsHell (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:50 PM

13. "I pray every day for him"

Frazier in 2011

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Response to brush (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:50 PM

14. You're wrong...It's all here

And it was deeper than just Manila.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:57 PM

17. That documentary is a bit one sided.

Ali wasn't a saint. But he did express remorse for his treatment of Joe Frazier.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:02 PM

25. They made each other greater as fighters

In Frazier's case, much greater. It couldn't be anything but messy and it was.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:09 PM

28. Unfortunately us geeezers are old enough to remember the politcs of the time.

From the time Ali joined the NOI and opposed the war in Vietnam until he won his epic battle with George Foreman and caused many Americans to give him a second look his fights were political and racial events, even when his opponents were black. Those that rooted against him aligned themselves with the white power structure, and those that rooted for him against it. Joe Frazier, Floyd Patterson, and Ernie Terrell got caught up in the whirlwind. Ali made amends with all of them.

At the end of the day it is silly to argue Muhammad Ali was a "bad guy". And it is moronic to compare him with an inveterate hater like Trump.


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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:13 PM

30. Uh, check your facts. Joe Frazier defended him and called for his reinstatement.

His reward from Ali was, well we all know what it was.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:34 PM

37. Uh, reading comprehension is not your forte.

"Joe Frazier, Floyd Patterson, and Ernie Terrell got caught up in the whirlwind."


It was a turbulent time...Anybody that was embraced by the white power structure was bound to raise the ire of a revolutionary black man. You should be happy today. Joe's nemesis is dead.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:16 PM

33. It was nastier than anything you could conjure up today

My reactionary father and grandfather hated Ali with a passion and Frazier, who they didn't know from a hole in the wall, was their hero for a day in 1971. That sad dynamic played out all over and didn't bring out the best in anyone.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #33)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:30 PM

36. Bill Clinton, Bryant Gumbel, and Billy Crystal are doing the eulogies...

Gumbel was in the middle of the whole Ali-Frazier struggle and suggested Frazier was a Tom, something he came to sorely regret.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:59 PM

22. They reconciled later. Here'a a link with George Foreman talking about it.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:38 PM

4. Boxing is a sport where you try to punch a guy over and over again in the face until he can't stand.

Lets not pretend its supposed to be some dignified sport.

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Response to Shoulders of Giants (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:40 PM

6. You can still be a dignified human being in a non-dignified activity

He chose another path.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:42 PM

7. He may not have been a good sportsman, but he was unquestionably a great one. N.T.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:43 PM

9. boxing is about winning and getting inside your opponents head

I consider myself fortunate to witness the greatest boxer of all time as well as one the greatest americans who took on the government and won at the Supreme Court. A real test of courage and resilience...who gave up a fortune for his beliefs


frazier knew, forman knew...winning and fighting....

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:45 PM

40. "boxing is about winning and getting inside your opponents head."

That is how Ali dealt with his own fears... Fear is a primary emotion. It is what you do next that defines you.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:58 PM

18. Oh, just stop it.

You're looking like a idiot that took too many punches to the head..

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:01 PM

24. Some folks will say anything in the name of iconoclasm.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:02 PM

26. You seem uncomfortable with the truth.

I can't help you with that.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Reply #26)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:09 PM

29. I don't need your "help", actually.

A great man is dead. Give it a rest, OK?

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:58 PM

19. You do what you want

and i'll continue paying tribute to the greatest - won't be bullied

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Response to malaise (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:00 PM

23. The use of bully in this context is odd...

It reduces Joe Frazier to a victim. He was no victim.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:16 PM

32. Just laugh

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:04 PM

27. Only on DU could shit like this come up, at this time, as a serious attempt at discussion.

The man's corpse is not yet cold. Can you please give it a FUCKING REST?

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #27)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:07 AM

83. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:15 PM

31. the man has died...

for pete's sake be respectful of him and his family. Posts like this are really disgusting.

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Response to chillfactor (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:07 AM

84. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:25 PM

35. Fuck this shit!

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:43 PM

39. Jesus...

I'll take the forthcoming hide with honor.

You are an absolute asshole who certainly has very little knowledge of boxing, black people or the tenor of those times so long yet so short ago.

I'll say upfront that if there is one chink in Ali's legacy, it's that he and Joe Frazier didn't have the opportunity o patch things up ala Steinbrenner and Yogi. But to call Ali an athlete that showed the least sportsmanship of any athlete in the last 50 years????? Go fuck yourself.

You are talking about a guy who upon winning the Olympic gold medal was refused service at a restaurant in his home town of Louisville Kentucky. You are talking about a man who followed the courage of his convictions instead of the almighty dollar. You are talking about a man who insisted that his fights be held in countries that were often shit on by the first world. You are talking about a man who got bullied, shit on and hated by a country that he represented with honor.

Least sportsmanship?? How about John McEnroe who was a spoiled brat and showed the worst sportsmanship of any athlete I've known Bully?????? I would probably take no exception if you applied that label to Mike Tyson, another great fighter. But Ali??? Just take a few minutes and pull your head out your sorry ass. Funny, how the majority of fighters, people who actually got in the ring with Ali, would say you are fucking full of shit even factoring in the Joe Frazier factor.

You actually compared Ali to Donald Trump?????? Illustrate to me where the YAM put everything in his life on the line because of his convictions......Show me where he was willing to walk away from everything his rich daddy gave him because he needed to take a principled stand against something...Don't worry...we'll all wait.

And since you're picking one incident out of a legend's career and making blanket statements about it....think about this....Philadelphia was known as an extremely racist city. Frank Rizzo was no friend to my kind. So if you are so worried about Joe Frazier, why aren't you making a stink about how the city of brotherly love makes more a big deal about a fictional fucking boxer named Rocky Balboa than a homegrown son who was a gladiator in some of the most intense sporting events the world has ever seen. So fuck Philly because their a racist piece of shit city who really doesn't appreciate Joe Frazier.

Go Fuck yourself asshole.......You know less than nothing about boxing and it's canvas upon which the American political scene was painted upon during some of the most turbulent times in our country.

Jesus Christ....I knew one fucking asshole would raise his shitty head on this day of mourning.

I'll take my hide with honor.

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:58 PM

41. ...

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)


Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:16 PM

43. ;)

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:36 PM

45. Nothing left to say

Nice post.

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:46 PM

47. Ohhh

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:56 PM

50. Bravo!

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:16 PM

55. +A million.

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:20 PM

56. Perfectly stated rebuttal to Ops opinion....

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:27 PM

57. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: You alerted on a post which was already alerted

Mail Message
On Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:23 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Jesus...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7881868

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

If this gets hidden, DU isn't worth the powder to blow it to hell.

JURY RESULTS

Someone else already alerted on this post before you alerted on it, and only the first alert was sent to a Jury. A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of the post on Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:01 PM, and voted 2-5 to keep IT. Please note that even though your alert was not sent to a Jury, it has been forwarded to the Administrators who review all alerts.

Thank you.


Anybody have the jury results?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #57)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:13 AM

72. 2-5 keep it

it's right in the message

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Response to MrsMatt (Reply #72)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:48 AM

78. I agree

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Response to pintobean (Reply #57)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:18 PM

98. LOL, I see what you did there

Even if it was for naught.



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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:27 AM

62. .

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:38 AM

63. Thank you!

And he knows zero about boxing promotion.

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:54 AM

65. The Greatest



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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 04:41 AM

66. Great post - well said (n/t)

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 05:49 AM

67. Well said.

Just like the scene in "Tweleve Angry Men", some people need to be told to go sit in the corner and shut your fucking mouth.

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:11 AM

71. Thank you, I believe it needed to be said.

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:44 AM

75. Down goes MadDAsHell! Down goes MadDAsHell!

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:48 AM

77. Thank you.

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:00 AM

81. "Fuck Philly???"

Old timers LOVE Frazier and hate Ali around here.

Young folks just have forgotten is all. Boxing is a shell of its former self as a sport.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #81)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:33 AM

87. This old timer hasn't forgotten a thing.

Muhammad Ali was the greatest and will always be to me. My mother thought he was pretty special too, and she was born in 1924.

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Response to ornotna (Reply #87)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:16 PM

97. Yes. I gather he had many fans

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #97)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:37 PM

100. Seems he had his haters as well.

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Response to ornotna (Reply #100)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 01:29 AM

108. I'm not one or the other

Boxing means little to me. I just don't see the appeal in watching two men pummel each other half to death. But others do, and football isn't much better, really, and I do like that...

But in point of fact, here in Philadelphia, the home of Smokin' Joe Frazier, Ali has some legitimate haters here because of the abuse he poured on Joe. It's just a fact. There are a lot of older folks here who remember that and see our hometown champion as a victim of some very poor sportsmanship.

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:36 AM

88. Yes!

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:11 PM

90. ^THIS^



is a beautiful thing.


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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:14 PM

91. ---

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:48 PM

102. Well said!

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 09:11 AM

110. Awesome reply- troll got rolled

 

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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #39)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:56 AM

112. .

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:26 PM

44. If you so enjoy dancing on graves, ...

... you might wait until Ali is in the ground.

PS: this merde stays up here at DU, while my last two threads (the first in four years) get locked? Yep, I made a wrong turn somewhere. I coulda sworn this is where DU used to be.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:39 PM

46. The look aty me thread of the year.

 

Weeeeeee!

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:51 PM

48. Listened to the second Ali Liston

fight on the radio at age 9 and was shocked at how quickly it ended after all the build up. Ali rubbed the white community the wrong way with his "I am the greatest" boast following the fight. I didn't like him for his arrogance and lack of sportsmanship.His conversion to the Muslim faith did not play well in those days either. I always pulled for Smokin' Joe to take him down, and was disappointed when Ali roped a doped Foreman.
His loss to Ken Norton was such a low profile fight that it was broadcast the next day on ABC's Wide World of Sports. News didn't travel then like it does today which is why my brother and I watched a replay of that fight 16 hours after it ended and had no idea who won while we watched it. We loudly celebrated Norton's victory.

RIP Muhammad, the media rehabilitated you but I never understood why.

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Response to oswaldactedalone (Reply #48)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:54 PM

49. Sour grapes because Ali handed all your favorite fighters their collective asses.

We loudly celebrated Norton's victory.


Oh, Kenny looks down from Heaven and says hi:



Even Aliís opponents were positively influenced by him. Several years after his losses to Ali, Ken Norton suffered a serious automobile accident and had to be hospitalized, and doctors thought he might never walk again. One of the first persons to visit him was Ali. Norton remembered looking up,

Öand there was this crazy man standing by my bed. It was Ali, and he was doing magic tricks for me. He made a handkerchief disappear; he levitated. And I said to myself, if he does one more awful trick, Iím going to get well just so I can kill him. But Ali was there, and his being there helped me. So I donít want to be remembered as the man who broke Aliís jaw. I just want to be remembered as a man who fought three close competitive fights with Ali, and became his friend when the fighting was over.


http://www.americansc.org.uk/Online/Ali.htm

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Response to oswaldactedalone (Reply #48)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:49 AM

79. Inaccurate.

Example One: The first Norton fight was carried live on ABC, not the one-day delay that you claim.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #79)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:02 PM

95. Yes... I can remember watching it as a kid with my dad and being crushed.

It was easily the saddest moment in my young life...

I believe pre-exile Ali doesn't struggle nearly as much with Norton.

Do you remember the SI article where Ali predicted he would beat Norton in 4 in their rematch, Frazier in 6 in their rematch, and beat Foreman in 13?

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Response to oswaldactedalone (Reply #48)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:51 AM

80. LOL, sounds like you are whining. nt

 

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:02 PM

52. What probably hurt most

was this happened a few years after Frazier loaned Ali a substantial amount of money while Ali was banned from boxing. Frazirt died broke.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:49 PM

58. Every death brings out some whiner who has to be insulting. Nt

 

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:25 AM

61. Ali was not running for President. For a white person to use the G word referring to a black person

is verboten.

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Response to Lint Head (Reply #61)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:22 AM

68. He regretted it and apologized for it, several times.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:10 AM

70. No, no, no. Ali was a competitor and people respect him. Even those that were turned off initially

by his brashness.

Don't you try to put him in his place.

This thread is wrong headed.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:15 AM

73. Pre-bout trash talk is part of the hype of combat ports

It's how the fighters sell the fights -- boxing and MMA fighters still do it, some more than others, some not at all. It is almost always just "the game before the game."

It is truly not a big deal, as anyone who follows these sports know.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #73)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:46 PM

92. Frazier never forgave Ali.

It was that nasty and personal.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #92)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:06 PM

93. He did forgive him eventually

The year he died during an interview he said he forgave Ali and was over it.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:19 PM

94. why you just call him Cassius clay while you're at it?

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Response to KG (Reply #94)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:53 AM

111. wow... and I thought the OP was offensive

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:10 PM

96. Fuck off. Ali is a giant in the eyes of many,

myself included having come of age in the 60's. He truly was the greatest, in and out of the ring, and I was hoping not to see any vile shit like this. The LAST word I would, or ever will use for Ali is bully. You clearly haven't a clue what you're talking about.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 02:43 PM

101. Disgusting

that you would even bring this up two days after he died

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 05:59 PM

104. This is a vile OP, comparing Ali to Trump. Please delete.

It is so wrong in so many ways, and so ignorant of Ali's career and importance. This is like comparing MLK to David Duke.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 06:00 PM

105. 104 responses... I'm impressed

you've done this before, haven't you?

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:46 PM

106. I stirred up some controversy early last month with a similar Trump/Ali comparison.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027795406
Mind you this was written before Hill's recent Trumpbusting speech.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:48 PM

107. He also inspired

The entire world.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 11:23 AM

114. Most of that was thirty years ago or more...

and he did it to promote his fights. He grew into a very thoughtful, kind person.

Admiring someone's accomplishments (and yes, I'm an Ali fan) is hardly "deifying" him.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 01:15 PM

115. LOL. Trash talking in combat sports did not originate with Ali

It has been going on since the dawn of time and will continue to do so as long as human beings remain human.

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