To, two, too, their, there, they're, wear, where. here, hear, who's, whose, etc.

[Egalitarian Thug]

Last edited Fri Jun 8, 2012, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Misuse of these simple homonyms damages your credibility. Understanding homonyms is not organic chemistry. Learn the language if you wish to be taken seriously.

[coalition_unwilling]

1. here, here :) - n/t

[ErikJ]

62. You mean Hear Here? short for Hear it Here

[Prometheus Bound]

65. No, I believe it should be He're, He're

[ErikJ]

78. Har har, hear's the real spelling - "Hear, Hear"

From Wikipedia:

Hear, hear is an expression used as a short, repeated form of hear him, hear him. It represents a listener's agreement with the point being made by a speaker. It is often incorrectly spelled "here here"

The phrase hear him, hear him! was used in Parliament from late in the 17th century, and was reduced to hear! or hear, hear! by the late 18th century. The verb hear had earlier been used in the King James Bible as a command for others to listen.[2]

[Prometheus Bound]

80. No you're wrong. It's Ear Ear.

I looked it up.

[dixiegrrrrl]

81. Repeat after me:

The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain.

[ErikJ]

83. You're wrong-its Arf Arf.

In dog speak.

[coalition_unwilling]

88. I was actually punning on the British-ism "Hear, hear" which, roughly translated,

means (in American English) "I emphatically agree." Because the OP was calling out the misuse of homonyms, I thought he would appreciate my witticism. Maybe I was being a bit too esoteric.

[ErikJ]

99. Almost always mispelled here here.

So I thought..........

[Egalitarian Thug]

168. Not at all.

My apologies. The unexpected turn it took downthread distracted me. A good part of that "LOL!You bastards!"reply was for you.

[Siwsan]

2. Have you been reading the tea party rally signs??

No mystery why they aren't concerned with education cutbacks. It didn't seem important to them, so why should it be important to others.

[deminwi]

3. your absolutely right

hahahaha..........just joking, you're absolutely right!

[Sheepshank]

39. gosh...and here I thought you were going to correct rite to write. n/t

[cloudbase]

4. Next up: apostrophe's!

[RebelOne]

17. That is one of my pet peeves,

using apostrophes on plural nouns.

[Nay]

25. OMG, me, too. I want to knock down idiots who do that.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

140. me too. I'm seeing it EVERYWHERE lately.

makes me want to scream, break things....arg!!

[ThomThom]

74. but but but kids can type with their thumbs!!

who needs punctuation, just gets in the way

[JoePhilly]

5. r u ok? nt.

[L0oniX]

6. To be honest with you, long story short, like, know what I'm sayin, OMG, ect.

[lastlib]

63. I mean, it's, like, fersure, yaknow?? You betcha!

[racaulk]

7. .

[CTyankee]

10. well, you've restored my faith in the old flame war...

I was afraid I'd missed all the popcorn...

[dixiegrrrrl]

84. ty racaulk...

for some reason that cracked me up so much a tear ran down my leg.

[Amimnoch]

167. OMG, coffee through the nose and meeting keyboard time.

Thank you, I hope you don't mind too much if I shamelessly pilfer that image.

[LeftyMom]

8. Can you do the care and feeding of the shift key next?

[lookingfortruth]

9. Hey I will be the first to say I am terrible at Grammar. I believe I have great reading and

comprehension skills but Grammar for get 'bout it! Does it damage my credibility on this board when I argue my points or is it more than just Grammar understanding that destroy creditability?


How about a grasp of history and reading that might set one apart from let's say a Teabagger?


I'm just saying....

[CTyankee]

13. See, here's the thing: if you don't use proper grammar, you damage

understanding. The reader then must try to figure out what you meant when you use "their" for "there", for example. This is so simple I can't understand why people whining about "grammar police" don't get it.

As an ESL tutor, I had Chinese students who could spell better than most Americans I know and who could put together a sentence in English that was grammatically correct as well. That doesn't speak well for us...

[Quantess]

18. Yes, well... I have taught Chinese American students

in San Francisco who routinely made major grammatical errors. Even their homeroom teacher left a note on the door that said "We go to park now".

[REP]

27. Chinese only has one verb tense; English has many

What the teacher's note said is a literal translation of the same thing in Chinese, and in Chinese, it is perfectly correct. The English phrase, with two verbs ("we are going to the park now&quot , makes little sense to those used to thinking/writing/speaking properly in Chinese.

[Quantess]

41. Of course! But it isn't correct in english.

So you can't really say that was correct grammar. I have no idea what the OP meant by saying his Chinese ESL students made perfectly grammatically correct sentences. Correct, if translated back into Chinese?

Why attend ESL if you are a native Chinese speaker and you already are proficient with English grammar? Some major holes, there.

[REP]

42. I believe it; ESL students are taught grammar more rigorously than native speakers are

A hastily written note isn't quite the same as what a teacher would see in returned assignments.

[Quantess]

46. Sigh... I wish.

The Chinese American population in San Francisco is so huge, that english is not as high of a priority as it would be in, say, Kansas. So, there are Chinese people who have lived there for decades who speak hardly any english, and their American-born grandchildren make whopping grammatical errors (in english) when they come to elementary school. I'm not even talking about foreign-born Chinese children. And as a matter of fact, the teachers spoke with terrible english grammar as well. But it was Chinatown, SF.

[REP]

109. The Chinese population is huge in Kansas City, Missouri

I now live in the SF Bay Area. Your experience is not my experience.

[Quantess]

119. I have never been to Kansas City MO (nor Kansas City KS either)

but I hope to visit the region someday.

That's nice that you live in the SF Bay area. I love it there!

However, I stand fully and completely by my previous post. Those are my experiences, and I don't really care if you have not experienced the same.

[AsahinaKimi]

162. You would love to meet my friend Tarkana chan.

Last edited Sat Jun 9, 2012, 08:45 PM - Edit history (1)

She is Chinese and lives in a village not far from Montreal Canada. She speaks English, French and Cantonese in the same sentence. I talk to her all the time, and she constantly has my friends stymied as to what she is saying. This is NOT her doing...she has told me her entire village speak this way...


an example: : "bu nye already gives one wo mais wo I tzrkr, depoche nye ifs nye "
or this: "Kimiko, tu parle a moi mais je pence rien, vas habense ici "


This could be the future... imagine talking to someone who mixes languages together as easily as we mix food.. it boggles the mind.

[CTyankee]

43. happy to answer you here, Quantess! These women were very

interested in learning more American English idioms. They would watch "Sex in the City" and write down any questions they had about American English idioms used in the dialogue and bring them to class. Since I was tutoring a class in Advanced ESL I was prepared to answer those questions. It was sometimes humorous. One woman became irate over what she thought was nonsensical, the term "holy shit." How could this be? It was fun trying to explain "irony" to her as it applied to our English...

I loved teaching this class. It was during the 2004 election and they liked hearing about our presidential campaign and being in the midst of it. Quite a fun project for me, a Literacy Volunteer at the time...

[Quantess]

48. Sounds like a great experience!

And I believe you, I thought you were maybe exaggerating about how great their grammar was. Like you wanted to brag about what a great teacher you were.

Chinese people are good students. It's a very difficult transition from Chinese to English and vice-versa.

[CTyankee]

49. oh, god, no! I was not a great teacher. They were really on the ball!

I am and have been a Literacy Volunteer and I love my work. I have students from everywhere in the world and it is terrific. I learn so much!

[Quantess]

53. I bet you are a good teacher!

It's not an easy job.

[CTyankee]

101. thanks, I like doing it. But really I get a lot from THEM! I now have

a young guy from Brazil and he is fabulous. We work on his English conversation since he is very good in writing and understanding. It has opened up a world of understanding with me about how people learn another language and it is fascinating.

but I also learn a great deal about other cultures this way. It's like a mini-tour of their country. I get to hear about their customs and their culture, which to me is a delight. I learn so much more from them...

[JDPriestly]

79. You study ESL so you can get a visa to the US and maybe an under the table

part-time job that at what we consider sub-human wages will pay better than the same gig in China. That's why someone from China would take an ESL course when they already know English. They might also be trying to pass the TOEFL to get into college here -- regular courses.

[CTyankee]

103. My Chinese students wanted to pass the verbal SATs. They aced the

science and math part easily.

I pored over the SAT verbal tests but it was very hard work to get these students to pass them (I didn't know why they even wanted to, since they had advanced degrees in China). It was a tough duty on my part, believe me...

[CTyankee]

30. I must admit my students were pretty highly educated...

they were women with advanced science degrees who were married to post docs at Yale.

There are of course the less educated ones...I had one I reluctantly had to give up on. She would not do homework and never progressed...

[SoutherDem]

20. This is so simple I can't understand why people whining about "grammar police" don't get it.

This is so simple I can't understand why people whining about _____________ don't get it.

Anything which we understand, are for, care about, or are passion about can be filled in that blank. We do it for Republicans, Republicans do it for Democrats, the religious do it about the non religious, you get my point.

No. Some of us want a friendly place to communicate about our common concerns. If we want to be corrected like we were in college there are other places to go.

[CTyankee]

31. I'm not unfriendly by using correct English grammar. I don't understand

that point; it doesn't make sense to me. These misspellings distort meaning, pure and simple.

I don't correct people here, but I do use correct English and I support using it for everyone else. I believe in education. geez...

[SoutherDem]

51. Using correct English of course isn't unfriendly

I meant a place where people shouldn't be embarrassed because someone who has had a better education decided to make it a public issue that the person made a mistake or worst doesn't have the save level of education. I don't know what else to call someone who will in the middle of a serious thread point out the wrong tense of a word or a misspelled word.

I too support education but some may not have had the same quality of education as you, or may not have the I.Q. which you do. I simply don't see the need to bring this point to public knowledge.

I live in the south and have what I will call a middle level education, meaning I have room for improvement but I too if I wish could show my superior education to some. I too often remember witnessing a conversation where someone who didn't receive a good education get corrected by someone who is their peer in every way except education. I am sorry. I simply feel pointing that out in public is as rude as pointing out that someone is in a wheelchair and complain they can't go up the stairs or keep up with the speed everyone else. To me it is like calling Steven Hawking stupid because he can't talk.

We are in a presidential election in which we make a major point that one candidate likes to show his wealth and we call him arrogant. I see no difference in a well educated person pointing out their grammatical supremacy.

So using correct English isn't unfriendly. Pointing out when someone else doesn't is unfriendly.

[RebelOne]

59. I also believe in correct English.

When I see incorrect usages here, it is hard not to correct the offenders. I was a copy editor, and I was paid to correct grammar, spelling and punctuation boo boos by magazine writers and editors. My daughter is an English teacher in a middle school in Miami, and I often have to correct her grammar.

[JDPriestly]

82. If you were living in France or Italy and wrote something to post on the internet

Last edited Fri Jun 8, 2012, 08:09 PM - Edit history (1)

in French or Italian, you would not appreciate having a grammar-NAZI on your back about your errors.

Communication is more than grammar.

Grammar simply exists to facilitate communication. Grammar is not the be-all and end-all of communication.

Lots of authors purposely make grammar mistakes -- especially in dialogue -- when they write.

And grammar and spelling in earlier centuries, maybe a couple of hundred years ago was very different from the grammar and spelling we use today.

In my opinion, other people's grammar is just not worth my concern.

[SammyWinstonJack]

110. +1000!

[Hatchling]

123. +100.000!!

[Egalitarian Thug]

33. Communication is the issue. Communicating through writing is difficult at best and these

kinds of errors make that less likely. I know I've been misinterpreted many times even with careful wording.

When you write one thing and I read another, communication is not happening and that's the point I am trying to make.

[JDPriestly]

85. To, too, two -- those errors only rarely cause miscommunication.

The most important errors are more subtle, more complex. Loose pronoun references are a problem.

These tiny grammar mistakes are really typos and not worth worrying about.

[CTyankee]

108. If you are used to lousy American grammar, yes, easy to understand.

I guess. Maybe you are right. Just have everybody spell the way they want to and be done with it. Lots of English words have evolved...

[lookingfortruth]

23. I do know Language/grammar teaching in the school has degraded over the years. I know when

I was in school by 7th grade we had 1 day of Grammar in a 5 day literature class. I personally have to sit and think what the meaning of "THEIR" and "THERE" and "THEY'RE"

I know when I get excited and passionate about something I fly faster on the keyboard and and not think about these types of things as oppose to my point.

No it doesn't speak well for us but when I was taught sight words and not phonics and Grammar seemed to be rush subject to a non existent subject in my school education I can only do my best.

[CTyankee]

38. Believe me, I have made those typos myself! I feel embarrassed when I do

but I think it is a product of trying to think out and type out a thought at the same time. It happens...

[SoutherDem]

57. Yes

I find myself thinking several words ahead of where I type. I will leave out words and letters, place them in the wrong place and just out right misspell words. While I do attempt to proof, I can read my own writings many times and miss a typo but have someone else point it out in the thread, or I will catch it during reading a reply.

[MANative]

56. You're exactly right on this.

I serve as an editor for a fiction writers' forum and had to resort to writing a weekly "tips" list for everything from the proper use of commas, semicolons, and apostrophes to dialogue punctuation and the vast array of homonym/homophone errors that continually crop up in usage today. Out of all the writers for whom I edit, the most accurate is a Dane, and English is her fourth language.

I rue the day "whole language" teaching wormed its way into our education system; it was and remains an enormous disaster for any hope at getting comprehensible writing from anyone under thirty. Some of the things I see are just appalling. In one quick example, a recently submitted chapter of roughly 1800 words contained more than sixty errors in spelling, punctuation, and grammar. (Yes, I do like the Oxford comma, thank you very much!) Our standard for publication would have allowed four errors in that many words. The author, and I do use the term loosely, was incensed that I had not accepted her work outright. Kill me now...

[JDPriestly]

87. Learning other languages improves the grammar you use in your own.

That's why I fervently support requiring every American student who wants to get a college degree to prove proficiency in a second language.

I constantly have to edit my posts on DU because I think and type very fast, very, very fast and then I rewrite as I am posting -- and end up with a lot of mistakes due to the rewriting.

Usually I have to leave the post and come back if I want to edit. If I do it right away, I miss my mistakes (and I make lots of them).

I hope people read my posts for content and not to criticize my grammar.

[MANative]

153. Having competency in a second language certainly can't hurt...

and there is no doubt that other countries do a significantly better job than we do in providing multilingual learning opportunities for their children. We are, unfortunately, a very, very long way from being able to require that proficiency due mostly to the undeniable fact that we don't consistently educate children in secondary languages from an early age. My Danish friend began learning her four languages from primary school through secondary, continuing into university. We don't come close to doing that here.

I will confess that I do also make errors, usually as a result of typing before I think, and not taking time to proofread. Very few writers can effectively proof their own work, and it's only more than thirty years of experience earning my living as a writer and editor that allows me a little greater skill in doing that.

I will also confess that if I find a piece of writing riddled with errors, I tend to either reject it outright (for fiction work, in particular) or be doubly critical (in the technical sense) of the content because I make the assumption that the writer did not care to take the time to make his or her point clearly. If he didn't care, why should I? I fully recognize that some people haven't had the benefit of a solid education in grammar and structure; I also believe that everyone can continually improve communication skills, whether that be in writing or in oral expression. I have worked with literally hundreds of young writers whose competencies have improved dramatically over the course of time when they take an interest in learning how to express themselves clearly and accurately. One recent client has done so well that he has secured a publisher for his science fiction novel, and I'm as proud of him as I can be! Those who don't even try are the ones who make me a little nuts. When someone complains about "grammar police," I find that a signal that this may be a person who rejects new learning.

I don't judge poor writing as a sign of lacking intelligence or valid opinion, but those who can't or won't express an idea with full clarity miss opportunities to influence and persuade. Think about how often we all bemoaned Bush's lack of language skill. I can guarantee you that Romney's likely to sway a few people in the middle with his ability to make a cogent and eloquent-sounding argument, regardless of the fact that what he says is riddled with lies.

[CTyankee]

107. Ouch, the Oxford comma? I wish I had a dollar for every one of those I

had to correct in undergrad and grad school courses!

Another oy! It never made much sense to me but I did it anyway...oh well...

[Igel]

117. Deleting or inserting?

When submitting my MA thesis draft my advisors held to different standards of punctuation. One liked open punctuation, the other like close punctuation.

I spent hours removing commas and "fixing" the punctuation for one advisor. The next advisor looked at it and inserted all the commas I'd taken out. It's a matter of style, institutional or personal.

When I worked doing some editing we had a clearly mixed in-house institutional style. My boss, however, liked a very conservative, close style; a younger writer liked open punctuation. You learn to roll with the punches. Most readers picked up on the difference and didn't need to read who wrote it--the punctuation said it all.

[CTyankee]

152. deleting. I grew up with the insertion. deleting took some getting used to.

My faculty advisor for the Master's Final Project was an English prof...I remember smugly thinking how great my bibliography was (for some reason, I was very particular about that) and she absolutely ripped it apart...I was deflated. I am still in touch with her and she even asked my advice on her book manuscript...so all is well...

[MANative]

154. I wrote an article on this topic just two weeks ago...

illustrating how the use or omission of the Oxford comma could dramatically change the meaning of a sentence. I had no less than a dozen emails telling me that I'd converted the respondent to adopting its use.

Lynn Truss' book always comes to mind when discussing this topic. "Eats Shoots and Leaves" is just a classic.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

141. Word!

and I very much enjoyed reading your grammatically correct, properly punctuated post!!

I hate seeing good work ruined by crappy linguistic ignorance.

[MANative]

155. Thank you!

I work hard at expressing myself clearly and accurately, and spend at least six to eight hours every week tutoring young writers to do the same. Sadly, the "linguistic ignorance" still abounds, and that will not likely change anytime soon. One recent client failed to include a period at the end of most "sentences" and wouldn't know a comma if she tripped over one. She, however, is convinced that she is "a great writer" because someone on a fanfiction site once told her so. Aside from her near-total ignorance of the rules of grammar and punctuation, her plot holes are large enough to accommodate a convoy, never mind a truck. Very frustrating to this editor!

[chknltl]

67. Your response forced me to....

...bookmark this thread-thank you for that. I doubt it will impact the downward trend of literacy in America but I for one learned from your words. That said, I like the fact that freepers and most other rightwingers are vulnerable to discovery as soon as they put pen to paper or finger to keyboard.

[SoutherDem]

54. I agree

[Igel]

114. Yes.

Adherence to the norms of the standard written language is usually taken to mean "education." It earns you the benefit of the doubt.

If you can't adhere to them, you have to show your education by other means. This is difficult to show because anything that can be a mistake is likely to be taken as a mistake. You don't have the automatic (albeit low-level) good will that gets meted out to educated folk.

It's the same with speaking. * had all sorts of problems--linguists argue over whether it's a known language pathology or not. I think not; I think he just committed far more than the average number of speech errors. Carter had far fewer. However we assumed * was an idiot.

If you look at an unedited transcript of Carter and * you find that they made many of the same kinds of mistakes. We all have multiple dysfluencies when we speak--if you have a boss and want to annoy him, give him a fairly close transcription of his speech. He'll assume it's intended to be humiliating.

In any event, Carter got the benefit of the doubt for his errors, especially among co-partisans; * didn't. For example, most (D) don't realize that * and Carter pronounced "nuclear" in essentially the same way. * was mocked for it by (D). (Carter was mocked for it by (R).)

[lunatica]

11. The language police always want to be taken seriously but

they aren't.

[Egalitarian Thug]

28. And look at the results.

Only after he realized we caught him red handed, he told me the entire sorted story of why he did what he did.

I have my company attorney trying to get in touch with her to re-coop my foolish and negligent loss.

Once I open the door to the room, she was in my arms, legs around my waste.

But for all intensive purposes she has a good reputation and the gents who see her adore her.

The autopsy revealed that Kevin had died from a heroine overdose.

Yes, YOU are a beautiful woman ... both the outer person and the inner sole.

I believe that all fowl language should be banned from all T.V. and Movies.

I think it's pretty pathetic that our children can NOT even say the pledge of the legions in our schools today.

I'm pretty sure each one of these people had something to say, but nobody's paying any attention because of their lack of care.

[bluesbassman]

45. See, here's the thing though. While I find a little humor in each example, I still get the point.

I find this to be mostly true when encountering these types of grammatical errors posted on DU, and when I can't glean the meaning, either through context or common sense, I'll just ask for clarification.

Not everybody has the inclination or the innate ability to master grammar. I'm certainly not going to discount their ideas or positions because of it.

[kentauros]

52. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one thinking this way :)

The point of any conversation IS the point! How the point is presented is irrelevant. If you understand the point the poster is trying to make, no matter how bad their grammar, then attacking their grammar just shows you're picking a fight of semantics in order to avoid arguing the point itself.

I see this tactic all over DU these days. It's employed by the "master debaters" for whom the goal is not a discussion, but to win! and, if possible, humiliate the other poster in the process.

[RC]

112. Not really. If their posts are full of errors, lack reasonably proper punctuation and

the correct "there, their, they're" type verbiage, I wonder if they don't know what they are talking about either. I kind of blow them off, no matter what they are trying to say because of their real or apparent ignorance.
In other words if the posting style is too sloppy, you can easily lose your point and your audience, because people assume you don't know what you are talking about and move on to something else.

[kentauros]

129. I respectfully disagree.

If their point is something I would like to discuss further, then it matters not to me how badly it's presented.

And if you blow them off because of too many "errors" in their printed speech, then you'll never know what you missed had you taken the time and patience to delve deeper

[JDPriestly]

89. Actually, I understood every bit of it.

Maybe some minds are just more flexible than others.

I enjoy these kinds of errors. It's like reading a puzzle. It gives you something to figure out in an otherwise boring sentence.

One of these days, I'm going to post something in which I spell every other word wrong must to make the grammar NAZIs on this thread work. What fun!

[Logical]

166. Well, I understood what every sentence meant! Sorry you have trouble!

[Electric Monk]

50. One morning, I shot an elephant in my pajamas.

How he got in my pajamas, I don't know.

[JDPriestly]

90. That is sheer poetry to me.

Don't you enjoy visualizing the elephant in your pajamas. Hilarious.

I don't understand why people don't see these "mistakes" as creative, as fun.

Creativity is blocked by perfectionism. I prefer posts full of creative mistakes to ones that are perfectly prim, proper, poised and precisely penned.

Let's lighten this up.

[Cheviteau]

66. Your right

Hells bells...Kelsey "Grammer" don't even no how to spell his own damn name. And he makes millions and gets all the young chicks. So I don't take all this serious.

[Shankapotomus]

12. Yes and remember

Freepers are watching so let's show them how much smarter we are than them.

[Quantess]

14. I really do think it is confusing for many people.

I get it perfectly, and I immediately see when others make mistakes. I think some otherwise intelligent people have a hard time with this, and if they have good arguments I don't want to judge them by a minor error, such as "Your going to be a great mom!"

But yes, it does damage credibility. That is true.

[JDPriestly]

91. But why does it damage credibility?

Why?

I don't think that way at all.

If someone has something good to say, I'm interested. I don't care if they can only read and write English at the third-grade level. Sometimes the most interesting language comes out of the pens and mouths of third-graders.

[Igel]

120. It's a social thing.

It's like wearing a suit and tie versus a paint-stained t-shirt and cut-offs. There's a semiotics to behavior, to orthography, to dress, to hair styles, to speech styles.

The semiotics aren't completely uniform. If you have a certain speech style, it can be considered educated or stuffy, in the same context, by different people. The majority will invariably agree on a single evaluation, however. Some people refuse to abide by it; they usually imply something when they do this.

If you're posting on an anonymous discussion board, the interpretations of variance from orthographic norms can differ from person to person. If you're submitting a PhD thesis, you'll use standard orthographic conventions. If you're applying for a job, you'll also use standard conventions.

In many cases, whether or not you've mastered the norms matters. If you don't know them, then you make a strong claim that they're meaningless. If you have mastered them and internalized them, then they matter more.

My father had to learn rather snooty dress and behavior conventions when they started going on cruises. I'm at pains to try to teach my low SES students standard English because once they leave their little neighborhoods unless they move to cognate neighborhoods elsewhere in the South they'll sound like uneducated migrants. I utterly lack their conversational register in my speech. They interpret it as being condescending; I tell them it's because almost all of my friends for the last 20 years have been PhD students in grad school and faculty in university linguistics departments at Tier 1 schools.

[wildeyed]

146. Because people are snobs?

I don't get the grammar police. If the person is really unintelligible, you have the option of leaving the debate, or never starting in the first place. What if English is the poster's second language? What if they are intelligent and politically committed but don't have the benefit of a decent education? Certain learning disabilities cause people to substitute the wrong word for another. This does not mean the person is stupid, it is simply a brain wiring thing. Hell, my new computer autocorrects now. I used to get a red line under a misspelled word, but now, about half the time, it make the decision itself and it is often wrong.

Grammar police are mean and their attacks are one step above ad hominem attacks, IMO. I hate it when there is a good thread with interesting debate going and they descend with their pettiness.

[SoutherDem]

15. Most of those I don't' have an issue with but

there are some which I do.

I do understand if I am writing something which will be used at work or school I am going to take more care than I do on DU.

I find my self typing quickly and not always using the correct word, putting the letters in the wrong order, using the wrong tense of the word and spelling something like one does in the 1st grade spelling by sound and not using what I do really know. Spell check catches some but not all.

If you posted because of something you read in a news paper or on a major website or if you are publishing something for a presidential candidate I agree 100%

If you are posting because some of us on DU uses the wrong word occasionally then I disagree. For me this is like a casual conversation. When I am siting back with friends I talk differently than when I am making a public presentation.

I agree I may have to read a sentence twice to catch the meaning but if I am intelligent enough to catch the error I am intelligent enough to know what was meant.

If I catch someone's error I will PM them. Tell them in private so if they want they can edit, but I never correct in the thread. I find that rude and arrogant.

Nothing pisses me off more than for someone to take a serious OP with serious replies have the grammar police to show up to show off their knowledge of the American language.

I am one who if I feel I need to overly proof read everything I post, then DU has gotten to conservative for me and I must find a group who are more concerned who the president is rather than who's/whose the president.

For me I have a much larger problem with the use of initials rather than the phrase than I do the wrong tense of the word if we are talking about understanding.

I have heard of many people who thought LOL was lots of love.

This is just of course my opinion.

I am sure you can find errors in this post.

[sufrommich]

16. How could you leave out lose and loose? nt

[Igel]

121. "Loose" and "lose" aren't homophones.

The pairs in the OP are.

There's no circumstance under which "loose" and "lose", in standard American English, have the same pronunciation.

There's no circumstance under which "they're" and "their" (and "there&quot fail to have the same pronunciation in standard American English.

Some words are optional homophones. For instance, I'm annoyed when people spell "deep-seated" (as in "deep-seated doubt&quot as "deep-seeded." In very careful styles "seated" is pronounced with a [t]. In allegro speech, "seated" has a flap for the /t/, so that "seeded" and "seated" have the same phonetic form.

[Egalitarian Thug]

19. LOL! You bastards!

Maybe it is just a few obsessives like me, but reading a well thought out argument on an important issue only to find it full of these mistakes detracts from the force of the logic behind it.

And don't even get me started on the misuse of specific words...

[pintobean]

32. Replying to yourself

destroys your credibility.

[Buns_of_Fire]

21. Personally, I almost loose my mind when someone misuses the word "lose."

But then, I attribute it to just a sticky "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" key and have another beer or two or three. After that, I can even translate Latin, with a Dutch accent.

BTW, did you know that the human mind can usually unjumble a word with the letters sloshed about a bit so long as the first and last letters remain in their correct positions? It's true! Try this one: "MOON". See? You didn't even notice that I transposed the two middle Os, did you?

[JDPriestly]

93. Most human minds can unjumble letters, but slow readers lack that skill.

I love doing cryptograms. It's so much fun to look at a code of letters and recognize the real word. So, I don't notice typos when I first type a post. My mind just unscrambles the mistakes.

I have to come back and edit to catch these things.

[sabrina 1]

22. The problem is that not everyone had the opportunities that some of us had. Also, there are people

with minor learning disabilities making it very difficult for them to learn what is easy for others.

While I agree that people, assuming they can, should try to improve their abilities, for me, it is what people say that matters the most.

Eg, there are lots of people around whose writing skills are excellent, but what they have to say, not so much.

And it's possible that if you were talking to some of the bad spellers and just listening to what they are saying, you would not be distracted by how the words are written.

[SoutherDem]

29. Also different talents

I know a person who has an English degree, but they can barely add 2+2. Yet, my ex can do serious math in his head but might spell cat with a K. I have heard of scientist who also have problems with English. I for one do not judge anyone by how they write especially on a website like we are on.

As to understanding. Years ago I was given a paper with what on first appearance was gibberish, it looked like a monkey got hold of a typewriter. But on further examination it could be read. It was part of a scientific study which found that many brains will read the first two and last letter and assume it knows the word. The paper was actually rather easy to read although it had very few correctly spelled words.

[ZombieHorde]

24. Grammar doesn't make non-grammar based arguments any more or less valid.

People may perceive the argument as more or less valid based on grammar use, but they will be considering the argument in a fallacious way.

[SoutherDem]

26. I know the solution

In online education you can send a paper in early to have it proofread to insure there are no minor errors. This helps out because I can catch someone else's error but can proof my own writing many times and still miss problems.

We need to set up a group who will proof and correct before being posted.

[JDPriestly]

94. Maybe the person who started this thread would make that a priority and lead the group.

[SoutherDem]

106. I started to suggest that but

every time I typed it, it sounded a bit sarcastic.

[JDPriestly]

144. It is perhaps a bit sarcastic, but then pointing out other people's grammar mistakes????

I have a bunch of degrees and I still make grammar mistakes on the internet.

Making this a tolerant, welcoming place takes everyone's cooperation.

I am not perfect. My grammar is not perfect. And I like to give a bit of slack to others like me. It's part of what being a Democrat is about.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

34. perhaps you could take your own advice?

i don't care about grammar all that much myself, but for someone who is preaching on the subject you have a pretty poor representation of grammar right there in your very own post...

sP

[bahrbearian]

35. Do we submit our writings to you for ,Editing?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

61. given the initial state of this now mostly corrected post

i would trust the EThug to proof shit...

sP

[tuvor]

36. You could stand to learn about capitalization and comma usage yourself. n/t

[Egalitarian Thug]

47. 3.243F6A8885A308D31319

[ProdigalJunkMail]

60. 4265207375726520746f206472696e6b20796f7572204f76616c74696e652e n/t

[mfcorey1]

37. Your sentence begins with a small letter and there should be an end mark at the end of a sentence.

Last edited Fri Jun 8, 2012, 09:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Your commas are incorrect. Capitalization and punctuation matter.

[Cobalt Violet]

40. And capitolization?

Where in does that lie?

[Egalitarian Thug]

128. Wherein. n/t

[dont hassle the hoff]

157. You LOLd

yet didn't catch the misspelling of CAPITAL!

[Egalitarian Thug]

158. See how insideous it is?

[dont hassle the hoff]

156. CAPITALIZATION.

A capitol is the seat of a state...

[jeff47]

44. Huked on fonix werked four mee! (nt)

[JDPriestly]

95. Now you are my kind of writer. Love it, Jeff47.

[diane in sf]

55. Really, we don't want to look like freepers!!!

[slackmaster]

58. Those examples are mostly homophones. Homonyms are spelled and pronounced the same but have...

...different meanings, e.g. rose, rose, rose, rose, and rose.

Pardon my pedagogy.

[RedRocco]

64. hmmmm

[img][/img]

[handmade34]

69. nice

[dixiegrrrrl]

86. Well done.

[Baitball Blogger]

68. I love grits and homonyms!

Always take them with a side of bacon and sometimes I mix them in with my runny eggs.

[Mosby]

70. this thread is a good example

Of why we need to bring back the unrec feature.

[slackmaster]

72. The little box with an 'x' to the right of the thread title can help you with that

Try it.

[Mosby]

75. stuff like this doesn't bother me

What bothers me is that this fucking stupid thread is now on the front page of du due to the number of recs.

[JDPriestly]

97. No. No. No. Please. As a huge grammar sinner, I am having fun!

I'm thinking how great it would be to form a Grammar Abusers Anonymous, and we could all confess our sins and cravings for atrocious style and bent sentences and then promise to do better and deny our true natures and then, once we defeated our Grammar-Abuse gremlins, get on with electing the next president and a Democratic Congress.

But -- before we can allow ourselves to organize for November, we must rid ourselves of our bad grammar addictions.

The voters will simply not listen to common sense or read good ideas unless they are presented in perfect grammar, style and punctuation.

Are the Grammar NAZIs offering to sponsor us in this?

[Mosby]

111. maybe the grammarians could sponsor us grammer challenged folks

That's a great idea!

Personally I'm a totally sucky writer and could use input from a grammarian.

[kentauros]

134. "Hay! My name is Kentauros, and I am a Grammar Abuser.

I sometimes end sentences in a preposition. I know y'all know what I speak of."

[bluevoter4life]

71. Here's a handy guide for your convenience

[Arugula Latte]

73. Alert California Peggy!

[Pool Hall Ace]

131. hahahahaha that was my first thought, too!

[snappyturtle]

76. Thank you! nt

[JDPriestly]

77. Typing quickly results in mistakes. That's the nature of the internet.

Let's be tolerant.

Those mistakes have nothing to do with poor grammar and everything to do with the nature of the internet.

Woops! I just spelled to as "ot."

The spell-check caught it, but it does not alert me when I type to for too.

These kinds of errors have nothing to do with credibility.

They have to do with typing speed and editing.

But who in the world edits DU posts with a finetooth comb?

What a waste of time.

[Prometheus Bound]

115. Yes, I've never seen typos like that interfere with meaning on discussion boards.

They're irrelevant.

[jp11]

92. Or we could accept that some people might not have learned English as their first language.

When you write something for publication like a blog, story, etc I can see getting it right but so much of what is on this board is so stupendously far from that it isn't even funny.

[RC]

116. Too many people have English as their only language and still can't get it right.

That is the problem.
Just look at all of the people on this thread making excuses for improper grammar and usage and how many of them have English as their only language?
And high school Spanish for some middle ager doesn't count for much either.

[Nevernose]

148. Native English speakers are making up more and more

...of the ELL population. I'm not referring to the children of immigrants, either, but Anglo children whose families have been here for multiple generations.

[Honeycombe8]

96. Continuing in the vane of the other posts: I here ya.

But seriously, I totally agree. Sometimes it's just a slip-up when replying quickly, or you're tired. We're not writing term papers, after all. But you can spot the ones where the writer really doesn't know the difference.

It brands the writer as not educated, and definitely not a reader of information. Still, everyone has a right to an opinion, and bad grammar doesn't mean the person doesn't have good ideas. It just means they can't get their ideas across effectively. Communication is the cornerstone of just about everything.

[loyalsister]

98. Its true

I also think texting has maid written communication less affective

[Igel]

122. Shouldn't that be "lass affective"? n/t

[lastlib]

100. Rein, reign, rain...

You "rein in" a horse with the reins to get it to go where you want.

"reign in" has something to do with ruling someplace.

"rain in" means you'd better close the window....

Jus' sayin'...

[Poiuyt]

102. Eye all ways yews spell Czech

Actually, I'm a tutor for students with dyslexia, so I'm always harping on the correct spelling and use of homonyms and homophones.

As a side note, I have a degree in organic chemistry!

[ErikJ]

104. They're, their, there fun worksheet

http://havefunteaching.com/worksheets/language/homophone/homophones-worksheet-5.pdf

[WillyT]

105. Thanks Mom... What's For Dinner ???

[Hotler]

113. Really????

[RC]

118. Really. And it started out as a fun thread, reminisce of DU2

[Hatchling]

124. I don't often make mistakes in grammar.

But I don't condemn those who do. The misused words you point out are usually understood in context of what the poster is saying.

I don't want to stifle the liberal passion of someone who doesn't use the right words (although sometimes going through spell check too rapidly can cause havoc with word usage!).

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

125. Sew... eye do naught knead yore approval too bee credible.

Thanks for your concern.

[Zanzoobar]

126. Do not eat shit.

[loyalsister]

127. I really don't think this is a serious problem

When I see mistakes of others, it's not something that automatically discredits them entirely.
BUT, when I catch myself making mistakes, I cringe.

[CBHagman]

130. And do not forget its and it's.

The first is possessive (The cat licked its paw.), the second a contraction of it is.

[Pool Hall Ace]

132. I never had an issue with homonyms

until after my brain surgery.

Why am I bringing this up? No clue, but I thought it was kind of interesting.

[Egalitarian Thug]

133. OK, I'm hooked. Please elaborate.

The whole thread took an unexpected (by me) turn and your reply seems to be the most interesting.

[Pool Hall Ace]

137. In all of my years of schooling, followed by many more years of writing in the workaday world,

I never had an issue with homonyms. Then, three years ago, I had a fist-sized meningioma removed from my left parietal lobe. Since then, I have noticed that I have to be very careful with editing before I hit send (since spell-check doesn't pick up homonyms). I have even caught myself typing "know" when I should be using "no." I should certainly know better there!

My only guess is that it is an after-effect of the surgeon tweedling with my brain for seven hours in the operating room.

[Egalitarian Thug]

142. TYVM, and wow. Sounds like you're doing well now. n/t

[Pool Hall Ace]

164. I am, thanks! :)

[Liberal_in_LA]

135. not everyone has the education you do. that doesn't make their opinion less important

[SOteric]

136. I can offer only limited support.

I'm going to start by agreeing that in any fora discussing complex abstraction, correct and careful use of language is essential for conveying a message in a manner that facilitates understanding.

But & however, - this forum isn't a think-tank, and we're not defending doctoral theses or presenting arguments for a proctor's vetting. We're not even engaged in anything which might be regarded as actual debate. The posts on these various fora have more the nature of casual conversation, spit-balling and navel-gazing. (With frequent forays into histrionics.)

The types of homophones you've listed aren't a hindrance to comprehension, even when incorrectly articulated, in an informal conversation. They are annoying to those of us slightly OCD. Repeated incorrect usage of them tends to make a person look like a Goober. And they can make for a convenient, albeit logically invalid sticking point when no other means of disagreeing with an individual are available.

Here's a proposal: I promise to try to write like an intelligent being, if you promise not to judge my occasional lapses in perfection too harshly. Sometimes the only way I can calm myself enough to formulate a reply involves alcoholic beverages and this tends to play havoc with my typing.

[alittlelark]

138. Too there defense, Aye here throes who's grammar sucks...

Their loves tea!

[MrTwister]

139. Loosing is not losing.

It's = it is.

Its = possessive of it.

It's just not that hard, folks . . .

[Zorra]

143. Another totally lame ad homonym attack on DU.

Last edited Sun Jun 10, 2012, 12:34 PM - Edit history (2)

[Zorra]

169. BTW,

this was a joke, and supposed to be punny, I know how to spell ad hominem, and what it means as well.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

145. Thank you - I suggest learning when to use apostrophes as well . . .

. . .ie: the difference between plurals and possessives.

The misuse of a possessive where a plural is called for is an epidemic problem, and is almost unreadable. For instance lovely ones, notice I did not use an apostrophy in "lovely ones". That's because it's not possessive. It's plural. The possessive form is as follows: "My lovely one's home is where her cat is."

Tonight, I saw someone refer to a group of myself and others as "lovely one's". As a possessive, that makes no sense! The use clearly calls for a plural.

Or for instance the word "others". Without an apostrophe, it's plural. With an apostrophe, it's possessive, as in "You should not wear other's shoes.". However, "Myself and others" is plural.

It's not rocket science. What the hell are they teaching people in the First Grade these days?

[Nevernose]

149. The rule for people who just can't remember the rule:

When in doubt, leave it out.

[The Doctor.]

160. "No new taxes."

"No, new taxes."


I know someone who left out a comma.

[Martin Eden]

147. Lose, Loose

My pet peeve is "loose" (rhymes with juice) when it should be "lose" (rhymes with booze).

Way to often people type "loosing" the election instead of "losing" and it drives me up a wall

[Nedsdag]

151. There's a website to see called

www.losenotloose.com.

Check it out.

[Martin Eden]

161. Just did, thanks.

Glad to know I'm not alone.

[2pooped2pop]

150. always cracks me up

when I see someone pour their heart out in a post and there always seems to be a punctuation police answer in the replies. It's as if some people can't understand the point of the post once someone typing too fast uses the wrong word.

it's kind of like saying "you mean he raped you too, not to."
I use my phone frequently for this site. It's way too much of a pain in the ass to make corections and for a long post I can't even see what I am typimg, so better go ahead and put me on ignore and save yourself from the frustration. Lol

fuck that shit, it's not an english test or job application. It's not a legal brief. It's just a person joining in the forum that he or she belongs.

begone punctuation police.

[raouldukelives]

159. It is horrible.

And even worse with phone users and tweeters. You would think they never looked at a dictionary before. How can I take you seriously when you can't even form whole words.

[Anser]

163. Oh who cares

I'm one that prefers function over form and substance over semantics. If the meaning is conveyed, then the purpose of the prose has been fulfilled.

I don't understand why so many people have bug up their butt over "proper" use of the written word. Language and written communication are fluid and change with each generation. It is astonishing the amount of time, energy, and voluminous screeds can be dedicated to something as inane as the placement of an apostrophe, or the number of o's in the word to.

Ah well, we all have our pet peeves, here I am writing about your writing about it, so joke's on me.

[Logical]

165. LOL, and I bet people think you are a very annoying person! I'll take 1000...

Posters using wrong grammar over you whining about it!

I had an English professor say people who are grammar police are insecure. I believe it!