How do we help break the cycle of anger and frustration

[lovemydog]

among the left and liberals? There's so much acrimony. It isn't doing us any good.

We have a lot in common. We need each other in every election. The right wing in this country is very powerful and they vote.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.

[LiberalEsto]

1. The corpocrats need to show respect for real Democrats nt

[lovemydog]

6. In what ways?

I'm a real democrat. I'm not a corpocrat. I'm interested in what you mean, if you can clarify further.

[Baobab]

9. Are you a bot? What is 7+4 ?

nt

[Dr Hobbitstein]

11. Over 5K posts in 3 months.

And you have the gall to ask a long time DUer if they're a bot?

Return to the bridge from which you reside under. There's some billy goats trying to cross.

[HuckleB]

15. Wow! I didn't catch that.

Yikes.

[Hekate]

30. I agree with you, but this just survived a jury

[lovemydog]

20. Excuse me?

[lovemydog]

23. It's 11. Why did you send me a private message

just now, asking me if I read your sig line?

[Hekate]

32. You might want to alert on that PM

Oy

[Dr Hobbitstein]

37. Because they are a troll that got past MIRT. nt

[Skittles]

2. your first reponse illustrates you point

yes indeed

[HuckleB]

3. Oh, goodness. Indeed.

[lovemydog]

7. I'm interested in what everyone has to say here.

I get what you're saying about name-calling. It doesn't do us much good.

[Baobab]

24. the thing that is so frustrating is that its fake

Not from you- lovemydog- No, the fakeness is from the people - typically Hillary backers, who are basically just pretending-

What it really is they want is the illusion of consent, not actual consent which would require full disclosure which they cannot give, because that would cause a mass revolt because nobody can afford the future they are cooking up for the country, we will be squeezed out, the nation will be milked dry.

for example, the US seems to basically be seen now in world trade circles - particularly the WTO as having a debt that we're now expected to pay back. It seems in jobs.

Its kind of an intangible, not like the huge and probably virtually uncountable "Third World Debt - and I am sure it is equally illegitimate. But I get the distinct feeling that the middle class in developed countries, especially the US, is being targeted as having to make the sacrifices to enable the wealthy's continued exploitation of the developing world by giving up decent paying middle class jobs to be crapified by globalization, in order to pay them back. For what?

For staying in the talks for 15 years?

Okay, now I expect to be pilloried, but you should listen to what I am saying here.

[Gregorian]

4. You're answer can be found in bernie's movement

I was so happy this morning thinking he might debate Trump. I honestly believe he would bring the two parties closer. Not just liberals, but the other side as well. I'm disappointed it won't happen. I don't think Trump has any animosity towards Bernie. It's a great opportunity.

You can only lead a horse to water. And leading by example. Those are about all I can think of to win hearts and minds.

[lovemydog]

13. Thanks for your reply.

Here's a post about a group called Brand New Congress. They're trying to harness the power of the Sanders movement into helping get more liberals in Congress. I think that's desperately needed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027860417

[IADEMO2004]

5. Declare end of convention the cease-fire date.

Group Hug

[lovemydog]

14. Haha!

From what I've read here, it will change a lot here after the primaries are over. Not sure what changes will be made. But I'm also interested in what people individually will do, because I think personal responsibility has a lot to do with it.

[Baobab]

8. Ending the lying would help!

Pretending to be progressives while selling the country out.

This is a serious problem. It helps not one bit to pretend to care but not in actuality care.

[lovemydog]

16. Yes, but each group keeps calling other progressives

liars. I don't think Sanders' supporters or Clinton's supporters have the complete domination of being able to use that word accurately. I think there are self-identified progressives or liberals or leftists who are supporting one or the other candidate, for a variety of reasons. Calling all of one group liars or sell-outs isn't necessarily going to reduce acrimony. Wouldn't you agree?

[Baobab]

25. this is what I am talking about...

For a deeper understanding of how migration could equalize the price of labour in two trading
countries, consider figure one (from Senior Nello, 2005:145): There are two countries, Home
and Foreign. The total quantity of labour in the two countries is shown by the distance OhOf.
Before a fully free migration is allowed the distribution of labor is OhL in Home and OfL in
Foreign. The marginal product of labour is higher in Home than in foreign because the
capital/labor ratio is higher in Home. This is shown in the figure by the higher position of the
MPLh curve compared to the MPLf curve. Because of this the wage is higher in Home, at Wh
compared with the wage in Foreign at Wf. In short: Home symbolizes a developed country with
high automatization and high wages and Foreign a less developed country with abundant supply
of labour, low automatization and low wages. If migration is fully free between the two
countries and the workers are identical workers will migrate from Foreign to Home in pursuit of
higher wages. The migration will finally result in an equalized capital/labor ratio in the two
countries and thus equal marginal products of labor and equal wages, illustrated in the figure by
the wage level W' which could be seen as the world market price of labor as the world only
consists of the two countries Home and Foreign. The migration is illustrated in the figure by the
distance LL' which is the amount of workers that will move from Foreign to Home so that the
new distribution of labour becomes OhL' in Home and L'Of in Foreign.
Wages will thus decrease in Home and increase in Foreign resulting in a loss for the indigenous
workers in Home illustrated in the figure by the area a but a gain for the capital owners of the
areas a+b. In Foreign the workers get an increased income of areas c+d+e while the capital
6owners lose areas d+e. The result in total is a net gain for the two countries by areas b+c which
is a gain resulting from higher efficiency in the use of the total resources of the two countries.
This simplified model of reality shows not only that there is a net gain but also that the
migration has clear redistributional effects, something that will be discussed below.

[Maedhros]

36. If progressivism means anything at all, then it's pretty clear that one group is progressive

and the other is not.

If we can just make words mean whatever we want then no, neither side can claim exclusivity to the term.

[Maedhros]

10. We don't have that much in common.

Some of us detest illegal foreign wars, object to warrantless surveillance, oppose the private prison industry, reject corporate campaign financing, and disapprove of job-destroying trade agreements.

And some of us condone, or even celebrate, those things, and I have no interest in coming together with such people.

[HuckleB]

12. What percentage of DUers do you think really "condone, or even celebrate those things?"

I don't think it's all that high of a percentage -- in fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of individuals in that vein -- but please show me that I'm wrong. I will gladly go with evidence.

[lovemydog]

18. Too black and white of a reply for my tastes.

I haven't seen anyone here condone or celebrate any of the things you describe. The way you state it, I haven't seen any right wing republicans condone or celebrate any of those things either.

[Maedhros]

27. Anyone voting for Hillary must at least accept those things.

I've seen all of those things defended on this site.

[jwirr]

28. +1

[Maedhros]

29. There's just no escaping the cold, hard fact

that if one votes for Hillary, one is at least condoning these things - because they are apparently not bad enough to cause one to not vote for Hillary.

Especially when there is an alternative that did not do ANY of these things.

[jwirr]

31. Yes, I have lived my whole life moving ahead. I have trouble

imagining moving backwards. I do not believe that she and I are going the same way.

[Maedhros]

33. I think the best way to break the cycle of anger and frustration

is an amicable divorce. Let the conservative pro-corporate pro-war Clinton camp have one Party, and we liberals and progressives can have another. Then we can fight at the ballot box, and not in faux-Left forums.

[jwirr]

34. Bingo.

[HuckleB]

17. Screen-free week might help!

Ah, but I guess most people missed it!

[lovemydog]

19. Great idea!

I did miss it.

I'm about to get some screen-free hours. That will be good.

Birds chirping outside.

Have a good weekend!

[HuckleB]

21. It is good for us all!

Perspective!

Enjoy yourself!

[zalinda]

22. When working class people are treated with respect by the Democratic Party.

Now the Democratic Party only thinks those making a certain amount of money is worthy of their attention, and they put up candidates that show it's true. The poor and working class have no voice in this country, the Democratic Party used to speak for us, but no more. Look no further than DWS and the pay day lenders.

In a thread that was locked, someone said that $15 a meal was cheap for a family of 5. The meal was chicken breasts and salad. I countered that you could get 2 boxes of mac and cheese, a package of hot dogs and 2 cans of green beans and feed a family of 5 for $3.40. They argued back that it wasn't healthy. Then the thread was locked (the op was crude). The point is, that when you are poor, $15 meals are not feasible, especially every day.

The poor and working class get taken advantage of every single day of the week, it's like 'how can we make them suffer even more'. To make matters worse, you can't make any more money than what is allowed or you are cut off of benefits. How in the hell can you get out of a situation if you are still poor (by government standards) but now make more (even by $1) than you are allowed to make. More and more families are doubling and sometimes tripling up the amount of people staying in a residence, because they have no where to go. If Social Services finds out about these situations, they could go to jail, or have to pay back benefits that they received.

The Democrats have not helped this situation. Both Obama and Hillary have indicated that cutting benefits are on the table. If you don't understand what that means, then you have no heart. You seem to think only social issues have merit, more more people are dying from poverty, than from any other social ill.

Z

[LiberalEsto]

26. +100

As long as rich donors are calling the shots and party leaders dismiss workers and progressives as unimportant, there is not much likelihood of reconciliation.

[TrappedInUtah]

35. Same problem in the republican party

Only it involves moderate republicans vs tea party loons.

[Odin2005]

38. Republicans like Payday Loan Debbie need to get the fuck out of the party.