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Tue May 17, 2016, 10:49 AM

Why do we still support Saudi Arabia?

It is almost a rhetorical question, but it is a real one. I know the pat answer is Oil and security, but could there be a more crooked, immoral regime? There are literally hundreds of examples of this, but this one stood out to me today:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/17/raif-badawi-saudi-blogger-lashes-prison-ensaf-haidar

The man himself could not be made out in the video. But I saw clearly that he was striking Raif with all his might. Raifís head was bowed. In very quick succession he took the blows all over the back of his body: he was lashed from shoulders to calves, while the men around him clapped and uttered pious phrases. It was too much for me. Itís indescribable, watching something like that being done to the person you love. I felt the pain they were inflicting on Raif as if it was my own.


A heartbreaking story about a journalist/blogger in Saudi Arabia sentenced to 10 years and 1,000 lashes. The story is from the perspective of his wife who fled the country.

The inhumanity of it is simply shocking. Words fail.

And we fail as a nation by continuing to prop-up this evil, evil regime.

41 replies, 2387 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why do we still support Saudi Arabia? (Original post)
hueymahl May 2016 OP
djean111 May 2016 #1
ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #2
tk2kewl May 2016 #7
ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #21
jwirr May 2016 #23
ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #25
MariaThinks May 2016 #3
Gidney N Cloyd May 2016 #4
leveymg May 2016 #5
lark May 2016 #19
leveymg May 2016 #26
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #39
Skwmom May 2016 #6
Baobab May 2016 #40
Act_of_Reparation May 2016 #8
The2ndWheel May 2016 #10
Act_of_Reparation May 2016 #28
saidsimplesimon May 2016 #18
Jeffersons Ghost May 2016 #29
Act_of_Reparation May 2016 #30
Doctor_J May 2016 #9
oldandhappy May 2016 #11
zeemike May 2016 #12
valerief May 2016 #13
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #33
Spitfire of ATJ May 2016 #14
Matrosov May 2016 #15
ancianita May 2016 #16
jwirr May 2016 #27
ancianita May 2016 #32
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #34
ancianita May 2016 #36
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #38
ancianita May 2016 #41
yuiyoshida May 2016 #17
Rex May 2016 #20
StarTrombone May 2016 #22
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #35
StarTrombone May 2016 #37
NoMoreRepugs May 2016 #24
MrScorpio May 2016 #31

Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 10:52 AM

1. Because the people who run this country lust after money and power.

 

Simple as that.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 10:55 AM

2. Because they assisted bushcheneyco with MIHOP and made everyone involved rich. nt

 

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #2)

Tue May 17, 2016, 11:23 AM

7. +1

 

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Response to tk2kewl (Reply #7)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:17 PM

21. 9/11 was a U.S./Saudi Arabia operation. nt

 

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #2)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:33 PM

23. They very possibly hold some information that TPTB do not

ever want revealed.

USA once equaled a strong nation - now playing Empire. We are going to lose at both.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #23)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:52 PM

25. Indeed. nt

 

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 10:56 AM

3. we're stupid and shortsighted.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 10:57 AM

4. Good customer for the MIC and they pay their bills on time.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 10:58 AM

5. Because of Citi bank, Exxon-Mobil and Boeing Corp, and the Bushes and the Clintons

As always, follow the money. If we didn't seen justice after 9/11, and continue to do the Kingdom's bidding, it's for precisely the same reason. They own us.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #5)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:16 PM

19. Clinton's?

I don't remember Bill being close to the Saudi Royals during his time as president, certainly they were never friends the way the Saudi's LOVED their co-conspirators, the Bushes. Clinton didn't start wars on their behalf the way both Bushes did. Why did you tar the Clinton's with the same brush as the Bushes? The 2 are not the same.

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Response to lark (Reply #19)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:52 PM

26. That's what I used to think, before I took the time to look closely at the relationship

between the two main political dynasties in America and the richest people in the world. What I discovered is that through nearly a half century of steady, quiet investment, Saudi oil money owns the political process, and like all large investors, hedges its bets. If you want to understand why this has happened, and how the Clintons along with the Bush family have been bought as assets of the Saudis, you should read this:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/347

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Response to leveymg (Reply #26)

Tue May 17, 2016, 08:58 PM

39. yep... it does seem as if our govt is largely bought off by Saudi Arabia

 

hence why we ignore their role in 9/11, in creating ISIS...

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 11:23 AM

6. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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Response to Skwmom (Reply #6)

Tue May 17, 2016, 11:19 PM

40. Despotic regimes do everything they can to stay in power.

Saudi Arabia beheads more people than Isis, including children.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 11:27 AM

8. Everyone here is mostly wrong.

Oil is part of the equation, but it isn't the primary reason we're balls deep in Saudi Arabia.

Our alliance is the product of regional politics. The chief players in the Middle East -- which, I think we can all agree is a shit storm right now -- are Saudia Arabia and Iran. We support Saudia Arabia to keep Iran from emerging as the dominant political player in the region.

We could go green and renewable tomorrow and our government would still be throwing money and guns at the Kingdom.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #8)

Tue May 17, 2016, 11:32 AM

10. Words like immoral and evil don't fit

Or rather, don't matter. Like you say, it's not about feelings. It's not about right or wrong. It's about what is, and how what is needs to be handled in the moment, because the moment is all there is.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #10)

Tue May 17, 2016, 02:36 PM

28. I think those words do apply, actually.

They might not matter to those making the decisions, but I think there's an ethical way to conduct yourself on the world stage while still preserving your territorial integrity.

It's important to remember that our alliance with Saudi Arabia against Iran is really a predicament of our own making. Thanks to short-sighted Cold War-era foreign policy, we soured relations with Iran to the point where it will not recover for at least a generation, and now we are forced by our own hand to join forces with the chief financial and ideological backer of Sunni terrorists groups that, above all else, would just love to kill Americans.

If we had backed Mossadeg instead of the Shah, it is very likely we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #8)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:06 PM

18. Truth is a rare gem.

We could go green and renewable tomorrow and our government would still be throwing money and guns at the Kingdom.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #8)

Tue May 17, 2016, 02:52 PM

29. We supported the Shah of Iran, who made the Saudia government look like princes

But wait, Saudi Arabia IS run by ultra-wealthy princes.

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Response to Jeffersons Ghost (Reply #29)

Tue May 17, 2016, 03:03 PM

30. Yes we did, and that is probably the most direct cause of the present alliance.

If the United States had backed Mossadeg instead, I doubt we'd be having this conversation right now.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 11:32 AM

9. The Saudi royal family and the Bush family go way back.

 

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 11:40 AM

11. I do not know.

The country cuts off the heads of people they decide are guilty of something. The wealthy people do not work, just rake in money from oil. Royal family is friends of Bushes. The country does not have human rights on their agenda.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 12:13 PM

12. Well that was an easy question.

Money and oil.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 12:15 PM

13. We are Saudi Arabia. They own a shitload of the U.S. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #13)

Tue May 17, 2016, 04:13 PM

33. yep, the motherfuckers have bought us off, literally

 

A lot of good info on Saudi Arabia in this interview
https://shadowproof.com/2016/03/06/podcast-vijay-prashad-libya-bombing/

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 12:24 PM

14. There was an episode of American Dad where he considered Saudi Arabia to be idyllic....

 

It's Republican heaven.

A single rich unelected family runs everything and consider themselves to be holy men as they bang multiple wives.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 12:44 PM

15. Influence

 

Oil is a major factor but not the only one. It's also about keeping the Middle East in general under as much American control as possible. Israel and Saudi Arabia are two of the major players, and they oppose Iran, who we've wanted to keep in check ever since they broke free of our control in 1979. It's also why we opposed Gaddafi in Lybia and Assad in Syria, for not wanting to 'play ball' with the US, and why we oppose Russian and Iranian intervention in Syria.

I always say, Saddam Hussein's Iraq was the perfect example of our Middle East policy in action. He was our good friend when he opposed Iran, which was in our interest. He became our hated enemy when he invaded Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia, which was not in our interest. Morality plays no role in it, though it becomes a convenient excuse when we want to get rid of 'evil dictators' like Hussein, Gaddafi, and now Assad.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 12:46 PM

16. Why do we keep using the rhetorical "we" who are entirely someone else?

The implied culpability and mindlessness of the rest of us is a constant psychological slap over nothing we ourselves have done.

I prefer that an actual agent be named, since we were neither privy to any friendship with the Saudis nor were we even asked if we approved.

Not that anyone has listened since Nixon, anyway.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #16)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:57 PM

27. But we are citizens of the USA. That means we were involved.

It might have been against our will but we were there.

When I was in college one of my professors was a young German man who had first been born into Nazi Germany, then lived in the USSR in East Germany and then escaped into West Germany when he was 16 years old.

In his class we discussed group morality. The idea of being guilty because you belonged to a group that did a wrong and did nothing to stop it. He was 10 years old when he lived under the Nazis. His argument was that he did not protest the wrong so he became part of it.

I think there is some truth to that. That is what BLM members were trying to tell those of who are white when they first started protesting and telling us that we are part of the problem? What we got so angry about was that they did not allow that many of did and do protest what is going on.

So the question is not - were we involved but rather did we do anything to stop it? Many did and still are - both against the War and against the racism that results in the deaths of so many young people of color.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #27)

Tue May 17, 2016, 04:03 PM

32. We were not involved! We had no say! Don't let excuse makers drag you down with them!

Don't talk the talk of neurotics!

We are together to solve problems that "we" didn't make.

"We" don't take responsibility for the decisions that others made and we have to now suffer for. We can take responsibility for not taking age appropriate awareness of our society's dysfunctions, yes.

But this is about Saudi Arabia, not BLM. So let's not shift goalposts.

So, no. "We" won't be allowed in my political world until we get the true involvement that comes with transparency and public discussion BEFORE decisions are made, weapons sold, wars declared, trade agreement made, laws against people's differences made, etc.,

You know the spirit of responsibility I'm speaking from. So let's not pretend we "knew" or "had a say" or that we "did nothing to stop it"!!

We hate blaming the victim politics so let's not, instead, do it to each other. Okay??

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Response to ancianita (Reply #16)

Tue May 17, 2016, 04:14 PM

34. the "powers that be" then

 

to some extent we are responsible for those whole rule over us

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #34)

Tue May 17, 2016, 04:29 PM

36. No one is responsible for their representatives' betraying their voters' interests in the

name of some other 'greater' interest. People are only responsible for what they have control over. "Some extent" is not enough to make a case against the average American. There is no greater greater responsibility than for an elected official to stay accessible, transparent, informative and honest in governing with the ones who brung you...

... And to never think you rule others.

Needing to be ruled is a common struggle that comes from the vulnerable stage of everyone's childhood. However people do or don't outgrow those mental habits, they are not to be held responsible for those who fail to live up to even greater responsibilities than the average citizen.

We cannot be mind readers, soul readers, pre-crime detectors. We take the moral stand to expect truth and to trust until words and deeds betray otherwise. So we are not supporting Saudi Arabia. Someone else who uses our money without our knowledge or consent does.

The evidence has been brought into DU for years that betrayal of voter interests is the playbook of the duopoly. The April 2014 Princeton/Northwestern study on voter influence in lawmaking proves it.

For me it's principle over money and we are not a nation of mean spirited idiots. We should never believe we need rulers, either. Rulers are for Saudi Arabians.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #36)

Tue May 17, 2016, 08:55 PM

38. your points are well-taken and seriously, fuck the leaders of Saudi Arabia

 

but I still think it's better to try to take some responsibility for the country we live in then to disassociate from it. If we act like nothing is our fault, then we can't change anything... can we?

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #38)

Wed May 18, 2016, 11:26 AM

41. As I said above, the we who are responsible do try to solve problems others -- but not

the "we" meant here -- created. Of course.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:01 PM

17. I bet I wouldn't last one hour there

never mind a day, my head would be up on a pike warning away visitors. I would have a better chance in North Korea, than Saudi Arabia.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:16 PM

20. They are our good friends in the region! Our close ally.

 

This will not sound good, but America doesn't always align ourselves with the nicest or most democratic societies.

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:23 PM

22. Because until there is a reliable, affordable alternative source

 

Of energy to meet our transportation needs we rely on foreign oil rather than despoil our own country side with drilling rigs

Even if you don't drive, ride the bus or travel by airline everything else that you consume or produce does

If you're posting here you are relying on oil

Magic mirrors, pinwheels, fairy dust and unicorn farts aren't going to replace petroleum tomorrow, next week, next month, next year or even in a decade

It's really that simple

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Response to StarTrombone (Reply #22)

Tue May 17, 2016, 04:19 PM

35. actually, the US doesn't even use that much oil from Saudi Arabia

 

They sell more for Europe and other countries. Part of our whole game though is to try to control oil supplies and the price.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #35)

Tue May 17, 2016, 04:50 PM

37. Oil is a fungible commodity

 

A barrel of Saudi oil is the same as a barrel of N Sea oil is the same as a barrel of Gulf of Mexico oil

A rising supply raises all tankers and any increase or decrease in supply affects price world wide

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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 01:43 PM

24. the Donald will renegotiate the price of oil around the globe and settle the problems

in the Middle East and we will all have Unicorns in our back yards.. wait and see


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Response to hueymahl (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2016, 03:05 PM

31. They're still a huge client state for the US weapons industry.

Not to mention the fact that they're paid well for being a key strategic location in the region.

Follow the money, baby!

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