A visit to the VFW after 5 years, what else: "Hanoi Jane" in the urinal, OBAMA bashing

[UTUSN]

Last edited Tue May 10, 2016, 04:41 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm a "Life Member" (they don't let you take it back, just go dormant), joined with reservations, just one of those fits of nostalgia to hang with fellow vets, each hanging being a remembering why I did *not* want to hang (redneck politics). In each election year starting with '00 I called the national headquarters to complain about their magazine's skewing wingnut and how members lend their uniform caps and decorations to pandering politicians. Different organization but same principle, how the Medal of Honor holders, in their caps and medals, stood on Shrub-CHEENEE's stage for the cameras during the Florida debacle.

(SIDEBAR: Active duty military are supposed to be apolitical in public, are in the service of the nation not political parties. Veterans are not active duty and regain their full rights to opinions, but their military decorations/ribbons should not be used for politics.)

So when I got there, early, there was a quartet of crotchety dudes, very "in" with themselves in low tones, occasionally bursting into laughter. I fully expected that if you waited long enough there would be a derogatory reference to "OBAMA," and yes, that happened, something about, "What good is the DOJ with OBAMA running it?!1"

So the first trip to the head (Navy word for it; Army = commode) takes awhile, and I shouldn't have been surprised, but I was, to see a bullseye target labeled "Hanoi Jane" in the urinal, with her face of course being the bullseye. I mean, this is 2016, no? That said, I surprised myself ten or more years ago, the first time I saw a "Made in Vietnam" label on a shirt, that I had a little shock.

The whole crowd eventually grew to about a dozen, everybody knowing one another but sticking to their own cliques - that is, they would shake hands with almost everybody and then head to their allotted place. The overall mood was just quiet buzzing, the card sharks at one table, the original anti-OBAMA quartet at theirs, just about everybody updating everybody on their latest medical situation. One dude regaled the room about his diahrrea, only later in his talk throwing in the detail that he's on antibiotics mixed with the alcohol consumption, which he conceded might be why he's got a rash and the diahrrea, not to mention nullifying the effect of the antibiotic. It was a general mood of resignation, of battles long over with to the point of banality. Sort of like the coven gathering in the last scene of Rosemary's Baby, like minded murmuring. Not "quiet desperation," more like self-satisfied comfort.

So Hanoi Jane, anti-OBAMA, health problems. That's about it. ON EDIT: Oh, another thing. The only woman in the room was the bartender, who was indoctrinated to the extreme at what her role was and who-was-who and who-wanted-things-which-way. While everybody called her by name and some chosen also kissed her on the cheek when they arrived, it was clear that she was totally subservient, knowing who took ice where. It was almost comical when she cleared the table when the original Quartet left it. One of the quartet had left his flask and related paraphernalia, and as she picked up all of the debris she *almost* cleared away the flask into the bargain but she literally blanched and her hand recoiled as if by electric shock because her brain sent the message that the flask-on-the-table meant that dude was coming back. She was a total vassal to the lords.

[potone]

1. Interesting, if depressing post.

I have always had the impression that most of the military is politically conservative. I would think, however, that many who are currently serving would not feel sanguine at the thought of a President Trump. What is your perspective on this?

[UTUSN]

3. Mine? I have your take that the military is mostly wingnut, including the currently serving.

As for their view of "President DRUMPF," I think they are the same as the DRUMPF supporters in blue collar Happy Hours: They like his loud mouth bluster and breaking the rules (yes, anti-Political Correctness), and his freeing them to speak out their hitherto "silent" racism. As for the riskiness of him, they love it, are risk-takers themselves. For some unfathomable reason, they identify with him who is so different from them in background.

[VulgarPoet]

8. I'm currently Air Force, and unfortunately, the wingnut contingent of the military is the

"vocal minority", as you call it? The AF Times recently did a poll, I need to go sort through my papers but there was a poll across the four actual services on who they'd prefer to see in the White House-- The only place Trump got above like 7 percent or something was the Marines, it seems this batch of military is overwhelmingly for Sanders-- that is, if that poll's anything to go by.

(When I'm out in a few months, though, you will not catch me associating with the VFW... Vast majority of veteran groups anyway either have problems with overt racism, overt wingnuttery, or stolen valor issues out the ass.)

[Bigmack]

2. VFW...? Nope. Sorry. Can't see it. For all the reasons you said. nt

[UTUSN]

4. Yeah, I keep doing the same wrong thing, repeatedly. n/t

[potone]

7. Well, it is to your credit that you keep trying.

But it may be beyond your power to change any of their minds. Still, I think that if more comes out about how Trump, with all of his bankruptcies, shafted many, many people who worked on his projects, that might be a turnoff for that crowd.

[UTUSN]

12. Oh, I have no illusion about changing their minds. And, as for facts changing their minds, nope.

In '04 I had just made contact with a web-ring of some of my actual shipmates from our ship in Vietnam, and for the first few months it was good catching up. But right away it turned into a cesspool of wingnut chain letters attacking KERRY. I tried "debating" and "discussing" for awhile but it was futile, so I ended up breaking off. Sad at first, but then good riddance.

[yeoman6987]

6. I retired navy in 2011

I would not join any vet clubs. I think quite a few x'ers feel the same. Cool you did but I have no interest.

[UTUSN]

10. Well, joining was not any high-minded coolness for me, just misplaced nostalgia, wanting

to booze it up in fellowship over the shared experiences (supposedly), but it turns out that after the uniformity of the uniforms is over the UNshared civilian backgrounds come to the fore.

[The Polack MSgt]

5. Not all VFW Posts.

Although the posts in rural areas are more likely to be that way.

My post is close to an active base in a racially diverse area. Politics aren't generally discussed.

The wingers around this area are usually members at posts further into the corn fields.

[Aristus]

9. I used to go to a veterans group at my church. I lasted about four meetings.

What a bunch of whiny losers those assholes were. First of all, the old 'Hanoi Jane' thing is just that: old. She apologized and expressed regret for her actions decades ago. Why are these guys so angry with her, and not with the politicians who sent them over there in the first place?

Plus, I just got tired of the right-wing bitching. I wish veteran status conferred upon a person deep wisdom, enlightenment, compassion, and empathy, but obviously not.

I'm a veteran, but I'll be damned if I ever join the American Legion or VFW...

[cleanhippie]

11. I courted the VFW and American Legion when I retired from the Navy.

And found that aside from being around others that served, there was absolutely nothing about hanging out there that interested me, precisely for the reasons you stated: Redneck politics.

[packman]

13. My many relatives who were in WWII rarely spoke of their experiences

They did what they were asked to do and moved on with their lives. No pride, no regret, just something in their fabric of time.

The saddest song about war, Waltzing Matilda - IMHO- has the stanza which is the saddest:



And now every April I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me
I see my old comrades, how proudly they march
Reliving the or their dreams of past glory
i see the old men, all twisted and torn
The forgotten heroes of a forgotten war
And the young people ask me, "what are they
Marching for?"
And I ask myself the same question
And the band plays Waltzing Matilda
And the old men still answer to the call
But year after year their numbers get fewer
Some day no one will march there at all

[UTUSN]

14. Waltzing Matilda and the uniquely American separate tables: I've told this here before

My ship was an LST, originally designed for landing troops and tanks onto beaches (Landing Ship Tank, get it?) for WW II, but we were used as a cargo/supply ship in Vietnam, loading up in Saigon then moseying down this humongous river (the ship has a flat bottom) to unload the stuff at an Army base, round trip three weeks.

So when we would get to the base we used the bar until 7 P.M. for the three or so days we were there. It was used by Army, of course, personnel coming in from wherever they were out there, and also our allies, the Aussies. So every time we arrived it was a race if there were any Aussies on base to see who got the barroom first because CONTROL OF THE BAR was the prize. If the Americans had control, all the tables were kept as they were set up, separately, with two or three dudes at each table. If the Aussies had control, they would push all the tables together into one long table with everybody in one big banquet, not really in conversation, just SINGING barroom ditties, bellowed out, one of which was, of course, Waltzing Matilda. The Aussies were big, rugged, boisterous dudes with fellowship. While the Americans at their separate tables had a conspiratorial air. To clarify, when it was the Aussie banquet table we Americans sat at with everybody. But American "individualism" has its off-putting side to it - the wingnut self-believed "exceptionalism".

[Katashi_itto]

15. I went twice. Could not take the redneck politics.

DAV is a little more laid back.

Still very little to do there except get drunk.

I think the age difference are two great. No one really in my age group.

I prefer to be DOING something rather than just sitting there.

Either working on another movie, practicing martial arts, or trying to do music. Teaching myself sitar right now.