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Fri May 6, 2016, 04:19 PM

Don't assume a revolution will be a leftward revolution.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/629022/EU-migration-crisis-far-right-parties-Europe-Germany-Sweden-France

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Reply Don't assume a revolution will be a leftward revolution. (Original post)
Fresh_Start May 2016 OP
Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #1
Fresh_Start May 2016 #2
Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #5
MADem May 2016 #6
Warpy May 2016 #3
Fresh_Start May 2016 #4
Igel May 2016 #11
malthaussen May 2016 #8
Warpy May 2016 #14
KamaAina May 2016 #7
Fresh_Start May 2016 #12
Matrosov May 2016 #9
Fresh_Start May 2016 #13
FLPanhandle May 2016 #10
Fresh_Start May 2016 #17
FLPanhandle May 2016 #18
WhiteTara May 2016 #15
Shandris May 2016 #16
rug May 2016 #19

Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:23 PM

1. OTOH.........

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/05/06/british-elections-london-mayoral-race/84011898/

LONDON The Labour Party claimed victory Friday for Sadiq Khan as the first Muslim mayor of London.

Although the result has yet to be formally declared, Khan received 44.2% of first preference votes to Conservative Party candidate Zac Goldsmith's 35.6%. Second preference votes are now being counted with Khan set to pass the crucial 50% mark when they are added in, according to the BBC.

Khan, 45, is the son of a bus driver from Pakistan. Khan was the bookmakers' favorite to succeed flamboyant American-born Mayor Boris Johnson.

Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn, French Prime Minister Manuel Valls, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio and other politicians congratulated Khan on Twitter.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #1)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:26 PM

2. I saw that too...but I've seen far more of the conservative right successes

Obviously to the extent that approval of gay marriage in Ireland is a political revolution, that too is a leftward direction.
But those are rare compared to the opposite

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #2)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:33 PM

5. Evolution has no direction.

 

Not so long ago it was unthinkable that an avowed Socialist could even make a competitive run for president in this country. Or, that gays could marry in the USA.

Or, that someone like "The Donald" could be considered as anything but a lunatic. Or that the NSA would spy on us.

"Do nothing, and everything happens." Lao Tsu

"God made time so everything doesn't happen all at once."
Joseph Heller

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #1)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:35 PM

6. Don't assume a Muslim is a "lefty."

Yes, he's broken a paradigm, a religious 'glass ceiling' if you will; and he's won on the Labour ticket, but that doesn't mean much anymore.

There are factions in that party, same as others.

He's a moderate, from all accounts. He's not going to be starting any revolutions.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:31 PM

3. Violent revolutions are prolonged clusterfucks

that kill a lot of people and wreck the infrastructure and once they're over, the same weasels are running things since they've been able to ride it out in mink lined bolt holes and people desperate for stability welcome them back.

No one who has read history ever wants a violent revolution.

The US colonies got lucky but things here were tough for a few decades after the fact.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #3)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:32 PM

4. I also suspect that the right is more likely to win

because they have such little value for human life.
There is no threshold they won't cross in pursuit of their goal.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #4)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:54 PM

11. It's not a mixed bag.

The bag is fairly consistent, whether the marbles are labeled left or right.

Hitler has a bad rap, and he deserves it. (Or do we call that a "coup"?)

The USSR outdid him for sheer numbers of corpses in service of "democracy." Most call that a revolution, to be sure.

The Chinese "Cultural Revolution," hardly a right-wing organization by most standards, was putatively worse.

Vietnam wasn't great, but pales in size because it pales in size. Cambodia was strange, and I put dear ol' Pol Pot in the same sort of "what the heck?" category as Qaddhafi, too idiosyncratic for easy classification. Saddam Hussein, Mubarack, and the Assads aren't as easily categorized as we'd like: The Ba'ath Party is nominally socialist, but had clearly fascist elements built into the philosophy (along with Nasser's Pan-Arabism); Ba'athism had a schism, but both Assad and Saddam, foes, were both Ba'athists. Same for N. Korea.

I'm not sure I'd call Mugabe "right wing."

There's a desire to relabel everything, from Lenin and Stalin and Mao, as "right wing" just to preserve the purity of the "socialist" label. Thing is, if we define socialism very narrowly we can always say it hasn't been tried and is pure. Then again, we can define capitalist and conservative in ways that preserve them from the taint of Hitler and anything else that says it may not be great.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #3)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:42 PM

8. Well, not necessarily the same weasels.

There may be a changing of the weasels, but it for sure won't include those who aren't in the tight little club of weasels.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #8)

Fri May 6, 2016, 05:07 PM

14. Good point and rather what I meant

Big name weasels are up against the wall as everybody on the bottom cheers. Their lackeys end up in charge a few years later, usually on the promise to restore law'n'order.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:37 PM

7. What these groups and our Trumpanzees are seeking is not a revolution but a rebellion.

 

It has no clear goal, like ending income inequality, the way a revolution does.

h/t WhoIsNumberNone for "Trumpanzee".

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #7)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:58 PM

12. they have a clear goal

which boils down to we don't want foreigners.
We want our country returned to the pre-globalization world.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:51 PM

9. The leftward revolution is steady

 

The United States - the world as a whole - is a very different place from what it was 50 years ago. Still not perfect by any means, but we're making progress. What we're seeing with Trump and with European far-right movements is conservatism trying to fight back from the death it's been dying those past 50 years.

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Response to Matrosov (Reply #9)

Fri May 6, 2016, 05:00 PM

13. I'd call it an evolution...

we've made progress on some social issue.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 04:54 PM

10. That's a warning to any government

If a government doesn't put their own citizens safety and concerns first, if a government ignores what their citizens want, then those citizens will remove that government (left or right).

The left governments in Europe put immigrants above the safety of their own citizens, so they will suffer.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Reply #10)

Fri May 6, 2016, 06:26 PM

17. so we should never provide asylum to victims of war?

thats not putting the immigrants first...its putting human lives above economic concerns

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #17)

Fri May 6, 2016, 06:46 PM

18. It means you better have the support of the citizens first

The job of any government is to do the will of it's citizens. If you don't, they will remove you.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 05:43 PM

15. I'm old enough to know that

these things don't end well like we all hope they will and the law of unintended consequences quickly throws the entire system into chaos.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 05:50 PM

16. Any revolution that chooses to stay on the bird is doomed to fail.

 

And that's just talking 'social' rebellions, like protesting, media, et al.

Of course, those who pay attention are already aware of this, but still I offer the thought in the spirit of hope for those who haven't considered it much.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 06:55 PM

19. If it's not, it won't be a revolution.

 

It will be capitalism concentrating into fascism.

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