Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

question everything

(47,407 posts)
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:27 PM Apr 2016

Do you go by he/him, she/her or they, ze, hir? Pronouns are evolving

(snip)

The most common gender pronouns remain “he/him” or “she/her.” Identity, however, may not be driven by biology, but by psychology, as when a Melvin identifies more as a Melissa.

For those who consider themselves both male and female, or as neither — the term is non-binary — preferred pronouns could be “they,” or invented words such as “ze” or “hir.” In many ways, we already do this. We use “they” and “them,” when we don’t know someone’s gender, as in, “When the Über driver shows up, tell them I’ll be right out.”

That’s just verbal shorthand. This latest effort to change the language is aligned with a social movement, said Anne Curzan, a professor of English at the University of Michigan and member of the American Dialect Society.

(snip)

One indication of how quickly change can happen these days came late last year when the Times used a new courtesy title, Mx., when quoting a bookstore employee named Senia Hardwick. It clearly wasn’t the Times’ idea, describing Hardwick as someone “who prefers not to be assigned a gender — and also insists on the gender-neutral Mx. in place of Ms. or Mr.”

Because the newspaper still insists on courtesy titles, a rarity in itself, the request was honored, although the public editor has said continued use is on a case-by-case basis. That Mx. may seem startingly new today is testament to how the use of courtesy titles has dwindled. But it also shows how some people are rethinking gender.

Last year, the Washington Post allowed using “they” to refer to “people who identify as neither male nor female.”

(snip)

For a long time, she said, the language defaulted to male terms, as in, “Everyone wants his life to be happy.” Over time, “they” variants stepped in, as in “Everyone wants their lives to be happy.”

More..

http://www.startribune.com/do-you-go-by-he-him-she-her-or-they-ze-hir-pronouns-are-evolving/377284251/

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Do you go by he/him, she/her or they, ze, hir? Pronouns are evolving (Original Post) question everything Apr 2016 OP
A long time ago I wrote a paper and used the ubiquitous he TexasProgresive Apr 2016 #1
It's looking like they-them-their has won. hunter Apr 2016 #3
"They" functions as a singular for a lot of uses. Igel Apr 2016 #6
I guess I'm old school, Blue_In_AK Apr 2016 #9
Pronouns SusanLarson Apr 2016 #2
she/her for myself, but frogmarch Apr 2016 #4
Call me whatever the heck you like. cherokeeprogressive Apr 2016 #5
Language evolves organically TM99 Apr 2016 #7
I use they/their/them for people whose gender I don't know... uriel1972 Apr 2016 #8

TexasProgresive

(12,153 posts)
1. A long time ago I wrote a paper and used the ubiquitous he
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:40 PM
Apr 2016

The professor circled the hes and hims in red and wrote "inclusive language." I wanted to find gender neutral singular pronouns but there just weren't any. For the rest of the term I use he/she, she/he, him/her and her/him. That was good enough for Dr.X. But I just wanted something more elegant. I had no problem with inclusive language just with no good pronouns.

hunter

(38,299 posts)
3. It's looking like they-them-their has won.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:53 PM
Apr 2016

It will be interesting to see if some specifically singular variation of these develops.


Igel

(35,268 posts)
6. "They" functions as a singular for a lot of uses.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:16 PM
Apr 2016

"A person walked into the store to buy a vegetable for dinner. They picked up the kale."

It's not normative in formal English, but used by a lot of people.

Since the 1300s. Chaucer used it from time to time. It was common by Shakespeare's day.

The prescriptivists, a "social movement", managed to get people to default to "he" as a generic singular in formal use and in informal use because that was good Latin. That was a losing proposition even back in the 1600s, but with all the heightened "how dare you refer to me in a way that I find offensive!" thinking in the mid-late 20th century (which desire to be offended is augmented annually), it didn't stand a chance. Unless you're explicitly inclusive you can only be offensively exclusive.

The prescriptivists are the same ones who give us "are" as the 1p present of "to be":
he is --- I am
is he? --- am I?
he is not ---- I am not
is he not? --- am I not
he isn't --- (I am't)
isn't he? --- (am't I?) aren't I?

Makes you think we should be saying "I are a good boy."

Of course, "amn't" or "am't" naturally became "ain't", and that's a no-no because in many dialects "haven't" also became "ain't". If Latin didn't merge the two, English can't. Surprised they allowed contractions.

Same for splitting infinitives. Can't do it in Latin, can't do it in English.

And the language isn't so much evolving as being engineered by people who like to use being offended as a means of control; if I offended, you need to be tolerant. But then again, many miss the whole point of evolution and think of it as telic. Not biologists, of course, what do they know? But the far more enlightened identity specialists that insist on compartmentalizing and individuating in the interest of collective unity. Lots of screw-ball logic when people try to engineer things that are best left alone.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
9. I guess I'm old school,
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:47 PM
Apr 2016

but it still bugs me when people use the plural pronoun to describe a singular subject, but I agree that the he/she him/her thing is cumbersome.

frogmarch

(12,152 posts)
4. she/her for myself, but
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:55 PM
Apr 2016

for singular gender neutral, I use they/them. I NEVER use he/him for singular gender neutral as was drilled into my head in the 50s and 60s. They/them is perfectly acceptable.

uriel1972

(4,261 posts)
8. I use they/their/them for people whose gender I don't know...
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:44 PM
Apr 2016

No-one forced me to, I just think it's the most elegant solution.
As for grammar rules, well the attempt to force latin grammar on the english language was a laughable exercise. If I want to split an infinitive I damn well will.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Do you go by he/him, she/...