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Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:17 PM

 

So Hillary wants special treatment for women in prison? Is this her plan for prison reform?

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by one_voice (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Hillary wrote this:
we need to be deliberate about understanding the different paths that can land women in prison, be more attentive to women's unique needs while they are incarcerated, and do more to support women and their families once they are released. I will institute gender-responsive policies in the federal prison system and encourage states to do the same—because women follow different paths to crime than men, and face different risks and challenges both inside and outside the prison walls, and every part of the justice system, from sentencing to the conditions of confinement to re-entry services, should reflect women's unique needs.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/27/opinions/hillary-clinton-women-and-mass-incarceration-crisis/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

So are men and women equal or not? I'm confused. We are going to have gender-specific programs and different policy for men and women and then call this equality? Am I reading this correctly? Any feminists want to translate this to me about how this equals equality?

And what is this garbage about "different paths?" Should a woman be considered less responsible when she commits a crime? Is that what she's saying? This type of talk from Hillary is a disgrace. It's an embarrassment to the idea of gender equality.

And how the hell does any of this help black men who are being devastated by this justice system and the policing in this country? It's black men who this system is hurting FAR more than any other demographic. Sorry Hillary, I know you want to pander to the female vote, but what we need is REAL prison reform for women AND men! Not special "gender-responsive policies" for only women, who make up only 7% of the federal prison population AND get lighter sentences than men as it is.

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Reply So Hillary wants special treatment for women in prison? Is this her plan for prison reform? (Original post)
davidn3600 Apr 2016 OP
pkdu Apr 2016 #1
Kingofalldems Apr 2016 #2
Major Nikon Apr 2016 #4
pkdu Apr 2016 #7
davidn3600 Apr 2016 #5
pkdu Apr 2016 #9
trumad Apr 2016 #14
pkdu Apr 2016 #15
DURHAM D Apr 2016 #3
Major Nikon Apr 2016 #6
davidn3600 Apr 2016 #8
DURHAM D Apr 2016 #10
TM99 Apr 2016 #11
procon Apr 2016 #12
davidn3600 Apr 2016 #16
NV Whino Apr 2016 #13
one_voice Apr 2016 #17

Response to davidn3600 (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:23 PM

1. Dear David.....some many possible responses...here are

Just a couple of thoughts to noodle on..

Women have babies...outside of prison. ..AND in prison.


Some women are in prison for killing abusive partners..not being able to take the beatings anymore..then see point one.

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Response to pkdu (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:24 PM

2. Guess he forgot.

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Response to pkdu (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:30 PM

4. So why not adopt gender neutral policies that fit those conditions?

Men also have dependents, and going to prison often means the loss of that support.

The idea that only women going to prison is hard on families is not a very good one.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:34 PM

7. This is ONE policy position targeting women's needs. ..

Doesn't rule other more general positions.

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Response to pkdu (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:31 PM

5. Men don't have children and families outside prison?

 

And Hillary never made any mention to pregnancy in her article. The entire article paints a picture that women in prison are all innocent victims who's family has been torn apart because of the system and not their own actions.

I've known men in prison whose families have been torn apart too. I don't see any article being written about them and how we are going to create programs to help them re-enter society.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:36 PM

9. Where are you getting. .

women in prison are all innocent victims who's family has been torn apart because of the system and not their own actions.

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Response to pkdu (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:25 PM

14. Resident MRA

 

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Response to trumad (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:26 PM

15. Thanks . Got sucked in. Won't happen again. Nt

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Response to davidn3600 (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:26 PM

3. Question -

First - Are you aware that if a woman is convicted of the same crime as a man she receives a longer sentence or harsher punishment?

Second - Are you aware that men serve less of their original sentence than women?

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:33 PM

6. No

Abstract:
This paper assesses gender disparities in federal criminal cases. It finds large gender gaps favoring women throughout the sentence length distribution (averaging over 60%), conditional on arrest offense, criminal history, and other pre-charge observables. Female arrestees are also significantly likelier to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted. Prior studies have reported much smaller sentence gaps because they have ignored the role of charging, plea-bargaining, and sentencing fact-finding in producing sentences. Most studies control for endogenous severity measures that result from these earlier discretionary processes and use samples that have been winnowed by them. I avoid these problems by using a linked dataset tracing cases from arrest through sentencing. Using decomposition methods, I show that most sentence disparity arises from decisions at the earlier stages, and use the rich data to investigate causal theories for these gender gaps.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:35 PM

8. Bullshit!

 

If you’re a convicted criminal, the best thing you can have going for you might be your gender.

A new study by Sonja Starr, an assistant law professor at the University of Michigan, found that men are given much higher sentences than women convicted of the same crimes in federal court.

The study found that men receive sentences that are 63 percent higher, on average, than their female counterparts.

Starr also found that females arrested for a crime are also significantly more likely to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.

Other research has found evidence of the same gender gap, though Starr asserts that the disparity is actually larger than previously suspected because other studies haven’t looked at the role of plea bargains and other pre-sentencing steps in the criminal justice system.

A 2009 study suggested the difference in sentencing might arise because “judges treat women more leniently for practical reasons, such as their greater caretaking responsibility.”


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html

http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1164&context=law_econ_current

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:39 PM

10. Federal study only.

No worry though - BS is going to empty the jails.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:40 PM

11. Are you aware that there

 

are six times more men in local jails than women?

Are you are aware that there are 100 times more men in state and federal prisons?

Are you aware that the increase in women being convicted and incarcerated over the last twenty years is directly related to the tough on drug crime policies of your candidate?

And finally obviously you are not aware of this, but that women receive even fewer years of sentencing than whites compared to blacks? Additionally, men are 60% more likely to receive longer sentences so your last point is moot given the actual stats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Women

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Response to davidn3600 (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:11 PM

12. Why are you confused, women don't even have equality, let alone "special treatment".

Look, there's nothing about "special treatment", that's just your low opinion of women leaking out. It's a pretty straightforward story about prison reforms needed to assist woman, and if you think that's "pandering" it only proves why gender-responsive policies are needed.


You're complaining because the article is about women's issues, as in not men, not white or black men -- or Irish Setters either -- just women. Yeah, we exist,so deal with it the best you can.

No matter, now that you've thrown out this transparent pretense for criticizing Hillary Clinton for promoting reforms in our broken criminal justice system that specifically help women, just stop. No one can be so clueless that you aren't aware that women, especially women with children, can find themselves on a different path to prison because of inequality, punitive gender laws, lack of economic parity and a broken social safety net that has failed them. Stuff like that doesn't impact men in the same way, kin?

I remain eternally hopeful that if you think about it long enough, maybe something will pop into that head of yours besides this insipid example of chauvinistic sour grapes.

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Response to procon (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:27 PM

16. I'll be looking forward to her artcile concerning her thoughts and ideas on male mass incarceration

 

But I won't hold my breath on that...

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Response to davidn3600 (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:24 PM

13. Wow, great! Let's get her a guest spot on Orange is the New Black!

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Response to davidn3600 (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 11:23 PM

17. Locking..

Discussions about Democratic presidential primaries and/or the candidates belong in GDP. Please re-post there. Thanks.

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