Where does bucolic VT house many of its prisoners? In private prisons, thousands of miles away

[pnwmom]

in places like Kentucky, Michigan, and Arizona -- wherever it's cheaper. Kind of like how they deal with their dangerous waste -- ship it off to Texas.

But imagine the barriers to families who are trying to stay connected to loved ones in prisons -- most of whom will be released some day and will need to be re-integrated into society.


https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2015/aug/12/vermont-michigan-prisons/

A crime is committed in a state. The suspect’s tried, convicted, and sentenced there, and there’s a general expectation that then the punishment will play out close to home — unless it happens that one lives in a state like Vermont, with a correctional system so overcrowded that some prisoners must be shipped away to a facility somewhere else.

There are currently hundreds of Vermont individuals being held in a facility in Michigan, with space slotted for as many as 675. Vermont, which has only 7 adult in-state correctional facilities, has contracted with private prison companies for years, sending their prisoners to out-of-state locations capable of holding the overflow prison populations.

Since 2004, the Green Mountain State has been paying Corrections Corporation of America for space in Florence Correctional Center in Arizona and the Lee Adjustment Center in Kentucky. That contract was not renewed upon its completion at the end of June, and a new agreement was penned with its rival, GEO Group, for space at the then-vacant North Lake Correctional Center.

At the price of $61.80 per diem, the Boca Raton-based correctional giant beat out CCA and bids for fewer beds at facilities in nearby Albany ($68 per diem) and Rensselaer ($110-120).

SNIP

[revbones]

1. Too bad Bernie wasn't the governor and could have fixed it.

Guess he was too busy in the House and Senate on national issues... Good thing he's against private prisons too unlike Hillary. Thanks for the info, just shows another thing that could get better in the US if Bernie is elected.

[pnwmom]

5. The OP isn't about Bernie.

But running for Governor wouldn't be a bad use of his popularity there. Maybe he should consider it.

[revbones]

10. Oh so it wasn't trying to subtly tie Bernie to private prisons because of VT?

So sorry then. Given history here I'm sure you understand why someone would think that's what you were doing...

[pnwmom]

13. If you want to talk about primary candidates, the place to do that is in GDP, not here.

[brush]

14. Seems Sanders should have used his influence in the state to change that

[HooptieWagon]

17. Clinton signed the crime bill targeting AA communities...

In order to feed the private prison system. It's quite accommodating of you Hillarians to remind DU of that.

[brush]

18. Don't you mean Bill Clinton?

I repeat, Sanders should have used his influence to change that.

[HooptieWagon]

19. Yes, presidents sign bills. First Ladies only promote them.

[Hortensis]

46. The people of Vermont should be extremely ashamed

of themselves That is a left-leaning state, not...Alabama, but they are endorsing atrocities the same as any callous right-wing troglodytes. One of Vermont's U.S. Senators personally arranged to ship Vermont's radioactive waste off to poison the people of distant Sierra Blanca, Texas.

Notably, the people of Vermont have approved all these actions with their ballots.

[Bluenorthwest]

53. The OP is from Washington, a State which houses more than 3 times the prisoners Vermont does in the

same Michigan prison Vermont contracts with. Washington is the third largest out of State incarceration system. California's is by far the largest, nearly 8,000 people out of State.

So it is ironic when a person from a State that holds far more out of State prisoners than Vermont to seek to shame Vermont for doing that they do to a much greater extent. It's so hypocritical it almost qualifies as religious in nature.

[revbones]

24. Yeah, and Clinton could have used her influence for more public housing funds in NY but she didn't.

What's her excuse?

[Downwinder]

22. You are suggesting he should primary a Democratic Governor?

[pnwmom]

23. No, that was a mistake. This OP isn't about Bernie.

[jg10003]

27. Bernie ran unsuccessfully for governor in 1986

In 1986, Sanders unsuccessfully challenged incumbent Governor Madeleine Kunin (D) in her run for reelection. Running as an Independent, Sanders finished in 3rd place with 14.4% of the vote. Kunin won with 47%, followed by Lt. Governor Peter P. Smith (R) with 38%.

[George II]

31. He already tried, twice. Got 1.1% and 6.1% of the vote.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. And I suppose we are to assume that somehow this is Bernie's fault,

even though this is entirely a matter for the state of Vermont and its governor(s). When Vermont started paying CCA in 2004, the governor was Jim Douglas, a Republican (who succeeded Howard Dean), and its current governor is Peter Shumlin, a Democrat. You might want to write to Gov. Shumlin about this matter.

[pnwmom]

4. Why are you assuming this is about Bernie? n/t

[HooptieWagon]

7. Looks like your poutrage du jour.

But thanks for reminding DU that Hillary is a strong backer of private prisons, and the 'war on drugs' that feeds the system.

[pnwmom]

11. Please take your discussion out to GDP where it belongs. This isn't about any candidate.

It's about private prisons and Vermont sending its prisoners thousands of miles away.

[Fumesucker]

16. Nope, that's about OPs, inside the thread we can discuss what we want

Should have thought about that before you started this obvious hit piece on Bernie.

[pnwmom]

20. You're the one making the connection, not me. n/t

[Texasgal]

29. uh huh...

and I'm princess Diana.

[George II]

33. It's not about Sanders, but since you mentioned it, he voted for the bills...

...that enabled private prisons and the "war on drugs".

Of course, Hillary Clinton didn't vote for any of that stuff.

History 101.

[Warren DeMontague]

67. Debbie Wasserman Schultz recently voted to send terminally ill people to prison for medical pot use

You should talk to her.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Well, maybe because it's about Vermont and not, say, Florida

or Arizona or Texas, which are the major users of private prisons?

[pnwmom]

9. I've spent a lot of time in Vermont, but not the other states you mention.

So I often read the paper there.

[Warren DeMontague]

3. Debbie Wasserman Schultz keeps voting to send sick people to prison for using medical marijuana

gotta put em somewhere, right?

[HooptieWagon]

6. Take it up with Vermont Gov and legislature.

Only an idiot would think a US Senator decides where to imprison state felons.

[pnwmom]

12. This isn't about any US Senator. it's about Vermont and private prisons. n/t

[HooptieWagon]

15. Hillary favors private prisons.

Among her big donors. Bill Clinton signed the draconian crime bills targeting the AA community to feed them into private prisons. Thank you for bringing this to DUs attention.

[pnwmom]

21. The candidates have the same position on private prisons, so this isn't about them. nt

[George II]

35. "Hillary favors private prisons" - she never voted for them, Sanders did....

Thank you for bringing this to DUs attention.

[Scootaloo]

26. Suddenly, so much concern about Vermont in General Discussion!

[Bluenorthwest]

52. I think the OP and you are both in WA? WA houses about 1,000 prisoners in the same MI prison

in which Vermont has 300 prisoners. But you know, Vermont sucks. California has nearly 8,000 out of State prisoners. Vermont sucks. Hawaii and Corrections Corp of America built a dedicated Hawaii State Prison in Arizona. And that's why Vermont sucks.

[Thinkingabout]

28. For those who complain about private prisions here is an example of who are using the facilities.

Good information, thanks for sharing. If the facilities was not used then they would fold.

[Hekate]

30. Fascinating. I hope the next POTUS, with the Congress's help, can make substantial reforms....

....throughout the federal system, though they probably can't do much about the 50 states.

[George II]

36. If Clinton is elected, she would get more help from Congress than Sanders would....

...since 166 of 188 current Democratic Congressmen and 40 of 44 current Democratic Senators back her - only 8 Congressmen and 1 Senator back him.

Can't get much done as President if you don't have at least the backing of your "own" Party.

[840high]

32. Why did you post this?

[pnwmom]

34. I didn't know some states exported their prisoners, and I think it's wrong. It's unfair to families.

[George II]

37. It's a horrible problem - forcing the families of prisoners to either go to great expense...

....to visit their loved ones or not visit them at all.

Vermont exports many of their prisoners, and also much of their toxic waste, too.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. The State of Washington uses the same Michigan facility Vermont uses. Washington has many times

the number of Michigan housed prisoners than does Vermont. The States that house prisoners out of State are CA- with by far the most, Hawaii with a whole Hawaii prison in Arizona, Washington is next in scope with about 1,000 prisoners in MI, then Vermont with about 300 in the same place. Idaho has about 200 prisoners in Colorado.

It is wrong. It is unfair. It's very much not just Vermont or is it mostly Vermont. It's mostly California which has more out of State prisoners than all other States combined by a large margin.

http://fusion.net/story/146671/these-states-prisons-are-so-full-they-have-to-ship-inmates-thousands-of-miles-away/

[xmas74]

45. Vermont is mentioned

but many don't realize that this happens in a few states. People are taking it as bashing a candidate but it's not. It's solid information about a situation that most don't understand.

If this had been about any other state it would have had 100 recs.

[Bluenorthwest]

50. California has over 7,800 prisoners held out of State. Hawaii has over 1,300 in a dedicated Arizona

facility. The State of Washington uses the same Michigan facility Vermont uses but Washington has up to 1,000 prisoners there to Vermont's 300.
Chart and such:
http://fusion.net/story/146671/these-states-prisons-are-so-full-they-have-to-ship-inmates-thousands-of-miles-away/


So the OP is about Vermont, the State with the fewest prisoners held out of State among the States who house prisoners out of State. Vermont is the one State that has been reducing their number of out of State inmates and has goals set for the end of the practice. Vermont is also one of the few States so small that an agreement with other States for emergency housing would remain prudent. If they had to shut a facility swiftly, unlike other States they don't have dozens of other facilities to take them to. The State of MA has 18 prisons. New York has like 50.

It is odd to highlight the smallest of the States doing this when looking at CA's many thousands held in other States.

[Hekate]

55. It's a shocking practice, that's all, and deserves more attention nationally.

Don't take it personally. It's important to know.

[Bluenorthwest]

61. Why would I take it personally? The OP's State is one of the worst offenders, mine does not house

prisoners out of State. The OP is in Washington, Washington and Vermont both use the same prison in Michigan to house inmates. Washington houses 3 times more than Vermont does. The OP is critical of Vermont but makes no mention of her own State's practices. It's hypocritical.

I'm talking about all the States who do this shocking practice. You and the OP are talking about just one, and not the big ones either. VT and Idaho each have about 300 out of state inmates. CA has thousands, Hawaii has about 1,500, Washington has about 1,000.

It is important to know, which is why I am adding all this data and information that the OP leaves out. Your snotty attitude does not help your candidate, nor does it help you.

[xmas74]

69. I did a simple search of the author.

Why not CA? Because she's not in CA. It looks like this was a project started while she attended Harvard. She's written a few articles about other facilities and problems in the system but the article about Vermont seems to be the start of a series about profit in the prison system.

Investigate in your backyard or close by and then spread out. Later articles show her spreading out. Either way, it's a subject that she seems passionate about and wants to investigate even further.

So why VT? Who knows? Maybe she knows someone incarcerated there or knows of someone. Maybe she read or heard about something and it piqued her interest.

[Romulox]

63. It's a sleazy ploy to sway L.I.V.s who don't understand the structure of state vs. Federal gov't. nt

[MADem]

38. You know what else sucks about VT? VT is one % black--but their prison population is 11% black.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/02/cory-booker-bernie-sanders-vermont-prisons

[pnwmom]

39. Interesting. . . so that's helping to maintain that low level . . .

[MADem]

40. If you are black, and you get arrested in VT, the odds are good you're going to prison....

Quite possibly in Michigan.

It's a real problem. It's not where you want to be if you're at all graced with melanin, if you can help it.

[Hekate]

41. That is interesting and troubling. So very many people moved to VT some 40+ years ago...

...intending to make it a social experiment in tolerance, equality, and all that good stuff we all want. I've read articles about it this past year that make it sound practically like paradise -- someplace I would want to live myself if it weren't that I'm hooked on California weather.

It's sad that some folks are still left rather far behind. Human societies: always a work in progress.

[pnwmom]

43. It's not paradise. Another point -- they tried to get single payer passed in Vermont

Last edited Sat Apr 16, 2016, 05:44 AM - Edit history (1)

but they failed, even with the financial incentives built into the ACA to help the state do it.

They couldn't get the necessary tax increase passed.

How does anyone think single payer can get passed in the US when even "liberal' Vermont wouldn't do it?

[melman]

44. I thought you said

this thread wasn't about Bernie.

[pnwmom]

47. It wasn't, till everyone else pushed it that way. But I've fixed the post. Thanks. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

54. The State of Washington uses the same Michigan facility Vermont uses. Washington has many times

more prisoners there than does Vermont. Where in the PNW are you again? Not Oregon....

[MADem]

56. You do realize that the only "controlling" post in a thread is the FIRST one?

If a thread starts out talking about knitting, and ends up talking about North Korean nukes, that is just the way the story goes....

[melman]

58. Right

cool story.

[MADem]

59. Not "cool story"--if you bothered to read the TOS and other regs around here, you'd know ....

But you clearly are not familiar with the history or culture here.

It shows.

[melman]

66. Plenty familiar

Just because I don't feel the need to relentlessly spam the board with tens of thousands of posts doesn't mean I'm new here.

[MADem]

68. If you were familiar, then why do you ignore the TOS?

[Bluenorthwest]

49. The USA is 13% black, USA prison populatoin is 40% black. It's a national issue.

"Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites."
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/rates.html

The State of MA has a disproportionate number of black inmates as does virtually every State and the Federal System as well as the US taken as a whole.

MA is 8.3% black but MA prisoners are 28.3% black.
http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/doc/faqs-about-the-doc.html

So yeah. Vermont fully sucks.

[MADem]

57. Yeah but VT is ONE PERCENT black--and it's prison population is TEN percent.

Math.

Of course it's a national issue--but it's an horrific STATE issue in VT.

I am not a spokesperson for Charlie Baker's Massachusetts, FWIW. The Commonwealth has a lot of work to do. But the topic here is VT. You want to talk about MA? Start a thread, I'll jump in. There's lots to gripe about.

[Bluenorthwest]

60. MA has an incarceration rate 20% higher than the population rate. Vermont's is 10% higher.

Both are bad. MA is twice as bad as Vermont. It just is. The OP is from Washington, Washington houses three times the number of prisoners Vermont does at the same MI facility. The OP's State is three times worse than Vermont in this regard but the OP points at Vermont. This seems self serving, as does your wee math. MA 8% black, 28% black prisoners.

The point is hypocrisy and owning own's own politics prior to holding others up for judgement. Both MA and WA are worse than Vermont on this very issue, the posters who are howling about Vermont are from MA and WA.
It' very pertinent. Not comfy for you and the OP but it is a strong observation.

[MADem]

65. This thread is about VT prisoners--not MA ones. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

48. About shipping NE shit to SW rural States

While NY State is large enough to house over 50,000 prisoners at 54 prisons in side the State, NY and NYC in particular have had a long history of sewage issues. Back in the 1980's the Federal Government ordered NYC to stop dumping sewage sludge into the Atlantic Ocean for obvious reasons. NYC responded by shipping the sewage to Sierra Blanca Texas where it was spread over many acres:
" It is hard to imagine places more different than New York and Sierra Blanca, and the contrast has always underscored the mercenary marriage between the nation's largest city and the small town where it has dumped its sewage since 1992. That year, after Congress had prohibited the city from dumping its sludge in the Atlantic Ocean, New York signed contracts with several companies to treat and transport its sewage. One of them was a Long Island joint venture, which began shipping up to 250 tons every day on the 2,065-mile journey to West Texas. The Texas Observer, the political journal, recently called it ''the poo-poo choo-choo.''

The Long Island company, Merco, had first sought a site in Oklahoma, but after meeting resistance there learned about a failed resort called the Mile High Ranch in Sierra Blanca. The company purchased the 81,000-acre area so that the treated sludge could be spread on ''application areas'' as if it were fertilizer. The company rotates the areas of land chosen to absorb the sludge. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/27/us/new-york-s-sewage-was-a-texas-town-s-gold.html

More Sierra Blanca Sewage information, with photos:
http://www.txpeer.org/toxictour/merco.html

[jmowreader]

62. Alaska and Hawaii do the same shit

One of the things Sarah Palin turned into a campaign issue when she was primarying Frank Murkowski for his governor's seat was the $2.1 million jet airplane he bought. The REAL reason he bought the plane was to ferry convicts to private prisons in Arizona - probably to the same lockup Vermont uses.

[Vinca]

64. Many states do that.

Curiously, there was just a proposal in southern Vermont for a facility and the public voted it down. If the voters don't support a project, the government can't shove it down their throats.

[bluedigger]

70. Ironic, isn't it?

After all that support for Hillary from the prison industry and vice versa.