"If the Democratic Party would fight as hard for the Working Class ..."

[Scuba]

"If the Democratic Party would fight as hard for the Working Class as the Republican Party fights for the Ruling Class, the Republicans would be a powerless minority party within a few election cycles.

The Democratic Party knows this, the Republican Party knows this, the Ruling Class knows this- and they've been astonishingly successful at making sure the Working Class never learns this.

The status quo was rolling along just fine, until Bernie Sanders came along and mucked it up with his crazy ideas about democracy, equality and justice."

My sister sent this truth to me this morning, but I'm not sure where she got it.

[DetroitSocialist83]

1. Neither party was ever built

To represent the working class and oppressed peoples. The New Deal came due to direct action by trade unionists, socialists, communists, neighborhood councils that forced a moratorium on foreclosures, ect ect. The people at the top who control the parties didn't just decide to hand out gifts one day. Until we have mass people power in the streets, at congressional offices, organizing neighborhood councils, using social media ect there will be no large scale change. Change comes from the bottom up. Same as the Great Society in the 60s.

[socialist_n_TN]

4. Yep. The Democratic was the left and populist wing........

of the bourgeoisie. At least on occasion it was. The Democratic Party NEVER even claimed to be a party for workers. On their best day, the Dems claimed to be a party for ALL classes, the workers and the bosses. Of course even basic analysis would show that his is an impossibility. Class struggle is a zero-sum game. When the bosses win, the workers lose and vice versa. Change comes from the bottom up as you said. Until the capitalists feel their very existence is threatened, they will do nothing. And that's probably even more true today than it was in the past with capitalism running up against real limits on growth and a short term (next quarter) attention span.

BTW welcome to DU and check out our Socialist Progressives group. It's big enough that you'll probably find some co-thinkers there.

[scottie55]

13. Our Owners Have It In The Bag And They Know It

Hillary, Trump, or Cruz will do nothing about their ownership or our failed democracy......

Even Jimmy Carter admits we are an Oligarchs ran by bribery.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/jimmy-carter-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-with-unlimited-political-bribery-20150731

If you don't support Bernie, don't complain if your pile of crumbs falling off the 1%'ers spittle is reduced.

Just think. Only 23% of the families living in poverty get help from the government.

They will work for nothing, or enlist in prison. Win win for the Oligarchs.

[Baobab]

61. Show them the money! Working class wants things but can't PAY

Compare that to the Pharmaceutical industry or Health Insurance Industry.

$$$$$$

[MisterP]

42. right--that's how it backslid so quickly each time

even neoliberalism was pinkwashed under Carter 1979-80--it was something that'd lift all the boats and went against the elitist state: even libertarian socialists got excited by the prospects of a New Economy

[lewebley3]

69. Dem's are not comunist: your post smacks of comunism: its not organized for one Ideal

Last edited Mon Apr 11, 2016, 12:35 AM - Edit history (1)

i

[Zephyrbag]

98. Oh, no, not you again. Stick to the fascist forum.

[lewebley3]

101. Stop attacking the party be because you are supportng Sanders

[GoneOffShore]

113. Nah he should stay - perhaps he'll learn something.

[Scuba]

123. Hasn't happened yet.

[GoneOffShore]

136. And won't appear to. A Turd Way apologist and enabler.

[lewebley3]

175. Nothing bourgeoise about the Dem party: The Dem party put people

firist

[socialist_n_TN]

187. Yeah as long as the "people" have ownership of the means of production......

the Dems will put them first. BTW, I am communist. A Classic Red. A Trotskyist. A fundamental Bolshevik. Revolutionary Socialist. Bolshevik-Leninist. Anybody who has read my posts on here for the last decade or so, knows that.

[lewebley3]

188. Cummisn was crazy failure

[TalkingDog]

47. The Iron Law of Oligarchy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

According to Michels all organizations eventually come to be run by a "leadership class", who often function as paid administrators, executives, spokespersons, political strategists, organizers, etc. for the organization. Far from being "servants of the masses", Michels argues this "leadership class" will inevitably grow to dominate the organization's power structures rather than its membership. By controlling who has access to information, those in power can centralize their power successfully, often with little accountability, due to the apathy, indifference and non-participation most rank-and-file members have in relation to their organization's decision-making processes. Michels argues that democratic attempts to hold leadership positions accountable are prone to fail, since with power comes the ability to reward loyalty, the ability to control information about the organization, and the ability to control what procedures the organization follows when making decisions. All of these mechanisms can be used to strongly influence the outcome of any decisions made 'democratically' by members.

Say, for instance, the DNC and HRC deciding by August 2015 that she was the nominee and funneling millions from wealthy donors through the DNC and Victory for Hillary.

That, in no way, is a Democracy.

[lewebley3]

67. Sorry: the GOP are the Oligarchy not Hillary

[Meteor Man]

99. The Democrats sold out too

The DLC/DNC/Third Way Democrats made a conscious decision to throw unions and working class Americans under the bus in exchange for contributions from the donor class.

[lewebley3]

103. The never have sold out: they just reject Sanders: he is not Dem

[Meteor Man]

105. Right

Because democrats like Rahm or DWS are the real democrats.

[lewebley3]

107. The are :they work hard for American's and they have accomplishments

[GoneOffShore]

114. Accomplishments for the rich and powerful.

Time you got your head out of the sand.

[Scuba]

124. I'm pretty sure it's not in the sand.

[reddread]

131. might be sand in the vaseline

[Scuba]

132. Ummm, no thanks!

[Enthusiast]

158. It's not in the sand.

[truebluegreen]

167. I think you are wasting your time with that one

but otherwise welcome to DU.

[lewebley3]

176. they are some of the Dem's

[Live and Learn]

164. Bernie is as much a Democrat as you are. nt

[laserhaas]

172. Way more so

The nerve!

[lewebley3]

194. Sanders has not run as a Dem and won an office:tha'st one reason he shouldn't

be able to become the Den noiminee. He doesn't qualify as a superdelaget.
Also Sanders was always bashing the party.

[Live and Learn]

202. Since when is any of that a requirement to be a Democrat or run for office?

It is not. Sorry, you don't get to make up rules.

And there is nothing wrong with bashing the party or the country when it needs bashing. Walking in lockstep is not our way!

[laserhaas]

171. Oh Puh puck puhhllleeeaaassseee

Hope you are getting paid to putter such puke
.
Shhheeessshhh

[Plucketeer]

173. Obamas "third term"

is what Dame Hillary will be. And just like Obama, she'll NEVER find just the right shoes to walk a picket line with. This is because they both walk ON labor - not WITH labor.

[lewebley3]

174. We can only be so lucky to have a Obama 3rd: Hillary will not have 16%

unemployment: She will start her term with the

[Silver_Witch]

133. Very true!

[lewebley3]

178. No. Dem's have never thrown workers under any bus :they have just rejecred

Sanders: your represents sore loser:The
party is doing just fine.

[laserhaas]

166. Ha Ha...HRC is NOT an oligarch..entitled

Puhhhlllleeeaaaasssseeee

[lewebley3]

179. Hillary worked for every thing she has: and she has been

in public service most of her life for
the American people: She has inherited nothing and she is not a trust baby: sorry
your lies won't hunt

[GoneOffShore]

184. Got inside the bubble of privilege as soon as she could.

Found that the grift that she and WJC constructed could get them bucks and invites to the best Goldman-Sachs parties and has never looked backed.

You're suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

[lewebley3]

190. If what you said were true she would. a GOP party person::instead she is fighting for all the

poor

[laserhaas]

186. I'm not 5he one lying to myself

Goldman Sachs and Bain Capital stole my life saving$
.
Bernie gives us hope.
.
Hill us jack chit


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141410577

[lewebley3]

189. Your life savings was stole by the GOP

[laserhaas]

191. My life savings and career destroyed bSachs & Bain fraud covered up by Corruption/ willful blindness

that also includes mayhem and homicides

by sick fug'ughs like Hillary who suck up to Sachs for $$$$$

Go give your gal a hug and tell her, even if she succeeds in stealing the nomination

Sachs is going to face justice

[lewebley3]

193. Bush and the GOP are to blame:

L

[lewebley3]

196. Hillary is beating Sanders because the people trust her: She helped rebuild

the middle class

[1939]

119. The same problem would result

In a socialist or communist system. Within a generation all of the "power types" would have wormed their way inside the government apparatus and would be running things. They gravitate to power and not just to business.

[martigras]

57. Reading the new Thomas Frank book and he disagrees

Frank says the Democrats were the party of the working man until 1972 when they decided to abandon them and the unions to go after the "professional class". The DLC from that time on argued that the party was "too liberal" every time they lost an election. Bill Clinton became the head of the DLC and helped steer the party toward the Republicans. He even made a deal with Gingrich to privatize Social Security but it fell thru because the Lewisky scandal broke. Clinton "would confront and antagonize Democrats traditional base because he knew they had no where else to go." Things sure haven't changed much.

[laserhaas]

169. Made a deal to privatize Social Security

Wowzie Wham...how did I miss that one?

[lewebley3]

66. Agreed::The Dem party is a shape sifting enitity: reps the needs of the non GOP

[lewebley3]

71. The deal didn't come from trade unions: it came because the country was flat on its back:

FDR created a very capitalist that was a Dem

[Fantastic Anarchist]

129. Absolutely correct!!!!

Change doesn't come about because of party politics. It comes from social movements.

[think]

2. Truth there...

[Skwmom]

3. Do you really think the ruling class put all their eggs in one basket?

[Scuba]

8. Nope. Better to "own" both baskets.

[pangaia]

19. That is the fact that most don't realize.

too much smoke and too many mirrors.

[Ferd Berfel]

23. The most recent sale was held in the '80 when the Clintons Sold the PArty to the Koch Bros

and became the DLC Blue Dog Third Way Corporatist Party

[Duval]

46. +1 nt

[lewebley3]

74. The Clintion's didn't sell out anyone:they pulled 7.4m out poverty

Last edited Sat Apr 16, 2016, 02:43 PM - Edit history (2)

[DemocracyDirect]

77. They invented the Information Age.

I don't think so.

[lewebley3]

81. They created wealth for the middle class: Bush crashed everything

[DemocracyDirect]

89. Unfortunately the repeal of Glass-Steagal probably had a lot to do with 2008.

As I remember sitting at a special board meeting in Las Vegas in March 2000 when the .com bubble burst, the Clintons were still in office.

The decline of the economy began immediately after that ending with what happened in 2008. I was actually involved on the IT side in the mortgage market in 2003-2007 watching the middle class decline being managed. I sold my house in 2007 because I knew what was going down.

I loved Bill Clinton too at the time. But after doing a ton of research I see what really happened.

It really takes a right-leaning Democrat to undo all the progress the Democrats made in the decades before.

[Scuba]

125. You're wasting keystrokes with that one.

[DemocracyDirect]

126. I know...

But you really can't leave their ridiculous arguments unanswered.

There are some unsuspecting newbies around that might believe them.

And there are a few soft supporters that can be swayed by reasonable arguments.

It's going to take a lot of educating to dispel the myths of the past.

[laserhaas]

168. Set in stone...Billy,s legacy is

Unless the Queen gets clanked or high ranked

[laserhaas]

198. Concur. Staying silent leads uniformed to believe Bull Chit.. I regret

that - in the past - sometimes I ignored

other times I was baited by faux dems (such as Adam B's gang getting me bojo'd off DailyKos)

And - I used my name , from the beginning, instead of psuedo (use Whamzees - now - on my blogs)

People would have paid more attention, had my name not been on top.

AND

U R totally spot on .... Clinton, Bill - repeal of Glass Steagal, assisted GWB in slaughtering of U.S.

[laserhaas]

195. I know. Her, mis'an and others - all love to rub salt in victims wounds

and they arrogantly believe their babbling banter obfuscating can erode the truth.

[Ferd Berfel]

153. Glass-Stegal allowed the 2008 crash

[lewebley3]

197. No the GOP crashed everything: Everything was good when Clinton left

[Ferd Berfel]

199. Clinton set up the crash with

NAFTA, WTO, GATT and signing Glass-Stegal

We were in a bubble. It popped. And, BTW, Obama did nothing to prevent another crash and has set up a future that will be even worse with TPP/

[lewebley3]

200. No he rasied taxes on the rich: there was bank regulations:: Bush deregulated and cut taxes

[lewebley3]

180. You change the subject of your poat because you were wrong:

Clinton didn't sell out anyone.

[Ferd Berfel]

152. hmmm

[Marrah_G]

62. Bingo- and then distract us with things like guns, gays and abortion

As long as they can keep people fighting over those, they can continue to rob us blind.

[Dustlawyer]

157. ^^^THIS^^^!!!

[Phlem]

82. The "Rothschild's Method".

*sigh*

And the wheels on the bus go round and round....

[Major Hogwash]

84. We were sold on the "two for one" idea clear back in 1992.

I thought Bubba was talking about him and his wife when he said that.
He wasn't, he was talking about the idea of having 2 separate parties, but that was after the merger.
A DINO is a RHINO by another name.

Sort of like when Dubya said that Bubba was "his brother from another mother."

And then people wonder why Bubba spent so much time playing golf with George H.W. in the early 2000's!!

[GoneFishin]

12. Good point. That would presume that their loyalty to a letter D or R is a higher priority than

their loyalty to money.

So no.

[Plucketeer]

51. Eggzactly!

[PowerToThePeople]

5. It may very well be

that a large Worker's Party emerges from this election cycle.

[SoapBox]

10. We can only hope.

And Vote.

[socialist_n_TN]

11. We can only hope so........

Of course, then it would need to be won to revolution.

[KPN]

30. I'm sure many of you already know this, but there is a viable

Working Families Party that has existed in several States since the late 1990's. It has had some successes, seems to be growing and actually has endorsed Bernie Sanders as a candidate its members should support for the Presidency in 2016. They've also endorsed other progressive and socialist candidates at other levels in the past.

Google them -- there's plenty of info out there. They haven't been established in a lot of States, but they are growing.

I am probably going to switch my party affiliation here in Oregon after this election cycle, maybe before the GE -- we'll see. It's a Party that really is about the people!

[eridani]

109. True, but they are only active in states that allow fusion voting

IOW, running as the candidate of more than one party. While doing public banking research a couple of years ago, I found a VT state legislator who was listed as being a Green, a WF Party member and a Democrat. I think Hillary rann in NY as both a Dem and a WFP member.

[KPN]

111. Right. Mostly beciuase they see what Bernie saw and did --

which is that the odds are stacked against them if they run entirely outside the two party system. But I think the Bernie movement has created an opportunity where they can take it broader. And I suspect they will.

The Working Family Party is supporting Bernie in Oregon. I'm sure the same is true in the other fusion States.

[eridani]

112. No--the major opposition to fusion voting occurred in the 19th century

Too many people were winning as candidates both for the Populist Party and the Democrats.

[KPN]

139. Ah. Didn't know that.

No wonder its only allowed in several States. The two parties are against it.

[FighttheFuture]

37. Nahh.... we are a two party system. that's it. What will lilely happen is the Dems will fracture

after the Republicans have gone the way of the Whigs and No Nothings... into obscurity. The Democratic party will end up fracturing into two parties. The Clintonian New Republican wing and the Sanders Liberal wing, more in the spirt of FDR/Jefferson. At some point then, we can hopefully fix our election system up to diminish the two party approach so more can be better represented. Initiatives such as instant run-off voting, eliminating money in politics, breaking up the media so we actually have real news reporting again, besides the smattering of liberal stations and RT news, or/and other techniques, time will tell. Or, this is all stymied by the Oligarchs and we slide further in Fascism, planetary system breakdowns and eventual world war.

[COLGATE4]

135. Highly doubtful. nt

[GoneFishin]

6. That's it in a nutshell. I would add that by only pretending to fight for average Americans while

quietly rigging the game for the 1%, the Democratic Party is more destructive in the long run than the Republican Party who rubs their contempt for average people in our face every day.

[scottie55]

15. "contempt for average people"

Very well said.

[KPN]

32. Couldn't agree more -- looking at the DNC at least.

[Enthusiast]

159. It has become perfectly obvious despite the propaganda to the contrary.

[scottie55]

7. If All Democrats Truly Were Populists There Would Be No Republicans

My OP: If All Democrats Truly Were Populists There Would Be No Republicans

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027730252

It's not rocket surgery.....

[KPN]

33. "Rocket surgery" ... I like that! Made me laugh.

[lewebley3]

78. Wrong: the GOP are about greed: as long as there is greed there will be GOP

[SoapBox]

9. The Turd Way Class loves their positions, power and money too.

So they sit back and act like they care.

We've seen them running out from the shadows to attack Bernie...what an eye opener it's been.

Time to say good bye to the Entrenched Elite Eatablishment.

[SammyWinstonJack]

31. When do they act like they care......from Eat your peas...to...welfare reform/cutting food stamp

benefits....to gold standard trade deals....etc.....when do they act like they care?

[KPN]

34. It has been an eye opener for sure.

Especially when you see the likes of Howard Dean, Congressman Lewis, Bill DeBlasio, and even Barack Obama -- people I thought were real progressives!

It makes one wonder, is everybody susceptible to the allure of power and wealth? Hopefully not, but it is a scary question.

[DetroitSocialist83]

14. During the 30s-60s

The USA also had competiton from the USSR before it went into its own self inflicted corrupt decline. During the 30s while we were getting New Deal "free stuff" here, we were still actively overthrowing reformist governments all over Latin America. Same story, different decade.

[jtuck004]

26. The stuff wasn't free. It is paid for by the labor of the people. It is our opponents who call it

free stuff, in quotes or not.

Not a god damn thing free about it.

[silverweb]

60. Absolutely true!

[KPN]

35. Hey! Please drop the "free stuff" and "handing out gifts" (your upthread post) talk.

It's a bullshit right-wing meme that has been used for three-plus decades to jack up low information voter animous toward government in general, but specifically progressives. You are playing into their hand when you use such phrases. Why not use "do good stuff", "put people first", etc., instead.

[DetroitSocialist83]

48. Sorry guys

I meant it as sarcasm hence the quotes. I guess I should have used the sarcasm icon.

[socialist_n_TN]

73. Yeah use the *sarcasm* icon.......

Although I did see the " around "free stuff" and figured it was sarcasm. But better to be safe than sorry.

[Person 2713]

44. Huh?

[Dont call me Shirley]

16. If the DLC fought for the 99% the Rs would be powerless.

[Fast Walker 52]

27. well, I think we know what the DLC is all about

[lewebley3]

75. The 99%came from the GOP:not Clinton. he raised taxes on the rich 1%

[GoneOffShore]

115. And quite happily ushered in "Welfare Reform" and NAFTA

Along with DOMA, DADT, private prisons, police militarization, etc. ad nauseum.

And HRC? She was busy dismantling public education.

[lewebley3]

118. Welfare fair and NAFTA: were administer under Bush: The country was sound and debt free

when they left the White House: Under Bush 85.000 factories
went over sea because of the GOP: This was the time when croney
Capitalism was king which led to the crash. The Clintons would
would not have passed additional tax relief to make. It easer
to. move jobs over seas.i


The Dem"s lost the election and that is what caused American
to lose their jobs not Clinton: everything was fine under the Clintons.

[GoneOffShore]

141. Sorry no. WJC & HRC laid the groundwork for todays oligarchs.

Triangulate, divide, dismantle.

Welfare, public education, the encouragement of privatization, etc, etc, etc.

Conservative wolves in the the clothing of liberals. And history will show that to be true.

[lewebley3]

142. Clinton laid the ground work for a great economy: Bush felt he had to give money back

to American's the country did so well: The oligarchs are the GOP and they
are proud of it:

Privatization is a corner stone of the GOP: Bush went out month after month
trying to privatize SS:

You cannot put the sins of the GOP on the Clinton: Dem's not showing up to

vote laid the groundwork for oligarchs: with Nader supporters help.

[GoneOffShore]

146. So why does she support the private prison industry?

Why does she support the destruction of public education?

Why does she not support universal healthcare?

Why does she not support a $15 minimum wage?

Why does she support fracking?

Why does she look to neo liberalism and Henry Kissinger for her ideas on foreign policy?

WJC laid the groundwork for the feudalization of America. HRC wants to continue it.

[lewebley3]

177. She. doesn't support any prison industry: your post just nonsense

[GoneOffShore]

183. She has in the past.

Almost assuredly she will in the future.

And, surprise, surprise, that's the only question you have almost, but not quite, left unanswered.

Try again, oh webley.

[lewebley3]

192. Stop with smearing lies about Hillary

[GoneOffShore]

201. You continue to not respond to questions.

And so, Webley le -

Why does she support the destruction of public education?

Why does she not support universal healthcare?

Why does she not support a $15 minimum wage?

Why does she support fracking?

Why does she look to neo liberalism and Henry Kissinger for her ideas on foreign policy?

[GoneOffShore]

156. It's now almost 24 hours and no reply to my questions. I wonder why?

Why does she support the private prison industry?

Why does she support the destruction of public education?

Why does she not support universal healthcare?

Why does she not support a $15 minimum wage?

Why does she support fracking?

Why does she look to neo liberalism and Henry Kissinger for her ideas on foreign policy?

Is it perhaps because you know that she does all these things because she herself is a friend of the oligarchs and the reincarnation of Margaret Thatcher?

[Enthusiast]

161. Probably have to create a new unknown identity. Blew that one.

[GoneOffShore]

185. The wind from Camp Weathervane blows in odd directions.

[Takket]

17. the biggest problem is an uniformed and brainwashed electorate that votes against its own best

interests. nearly half this country thinks that the reason why the struggle to get by in life is that the rich don't have enough money.

[pangaia]

20. True that !!!

[Fast Walker 52]

29. but of course the PTB perpetuate this system too-- and work hard to brainwash them

Funny you wrote "uniformed", when I think you meant "uninformed".

However, uniformed kind of fits when you think about poor people going into the armed forces.

[2cannan]

49. Good point. I was really hoping Michael Moore's new

movie would get more traction and affect the primary.

If Americans were only more aware of how much better US corporations in other countries treat their workers because it's either the law or expected there, they might finally be fed up enough to demand those same benefits here.

Just one example:
Working At McDonald’s Is Starkly Different In These 3 Countries

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/global-mcdonalds-protests_n_5324938.html

A person can dream, can't they?

[lewebley3]

76. Who are you to decide others are not voting their best interest: you sound like a Sanders

Socialist

[Major Hogwash]

90. Year after year, decade after decade.

They have to have some kind of analysis paralysis to vote for the middle-of-the-roaders year after year, decade after decade.

[Martin Eden]

170. They've been brainwashed into believing the poor have it too good

Doesn't matter that many R voters are poor themselves, as long as they feel they can look down on other people as undeserving.

[ReRe]

18. No matter where your sister found it...

... it rings true. Bernie is doing a fantastic job of teaching everyone to

"think outside of the box."

[highprincipleswork]

21. Right on for your sister. I agree that wherever she got it, it's good stuff. Go Bernie!

[vkkv]

22. The Ruling Class has lot's of $$ and major media behind them. Lazy thinkers

who vote conservative do not search far below the layers of lies.

And besides, there is too much illusion, smoke and mirrors for an uninformed voter to vote on what they really do want.

The statement above sounds great, but I don;t see it taking us very far, sorry.

[zentrum]

24. Well done.

[Fast Walker 52]

25. Yes, this fits with what I posted this morning

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511696814

But yeah, it seems clear that the PTB don't want one party to represent both minorities and the white working class.

[Rebkeh]

28. K and R nt

[merrily]

36. Before New Democrats, the Party did fight hard for workers and those who can't work.

I made a related OP earlier today. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280170490

[lewebley3]

79. The Dem party has never stopped fighting for workers: they

just lost election for years until Clinton .

[merrily]

120. REALLY? They lost 3 Presidentials--Reagan was a one off, though--but they controlled Congress

until half way through the first term of DLCer Clinton. New Deal Roosevelt and Fair Deal Truman combined held the Oval Office longer than did Reagan and Poppy combined. It happens. But we continued to have New Deals/Fair Deal Democrats until Clinton.

Once in office, Bubba lobbied hard for Poppy's NAFTA and the pro bankster laws that, combined, allowed the banksters to collapse the economy of several nations in 2008 with little ability on the part of working Americans to get work and recover--and no welfare, either. And, thanks to morphing into the Party of Third Way "electible" candidates, we sustained historic losses in Congress and on state and local levels in 2010 and 2014. That was soooo not a good trade off for the Oval Office--but then again big business needed the Oval Office for TPP. Thanks for sharing!

As far as fighting for labor, Trumka would beg to differ with you. He announced some time ago that he's had a snootful of this sh*t. Formation of the Working Families Party wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement of your view that Democrats were fighting hard for labor. And we did hold strong majorities in both houses Congress from January 2007 through January 2011 without even trying to pass EFCA.

But thanks for sharing.

Meanwhile, yours is another screen name that sometimes posts nearly unintelligibly and sometimes in clear, complete sentences. It's puzzling!

[lewebley3]

121. Under Clinton there was mostly peace and prosperity: would love Hillary to be President

[merrily]

122. That's not true either. He bombed Iraq, like Poppy and Dimson and there were other

things as well, plus "extraordinary rendition." My prior post addressed the disastrous outcomes of his policies. As far as the "modest budget surplus" with which he left office, taxes and fees had gone up under Reagan and Poppy, so increased revenues had been coming in, and, as mentioned in my prior post, Bubba had "welfare as we know it." So, duh.

[lewebley3]

143. Clinton inherited Iraq: and chose not invade like Bush: Kosvos was Clinton,

and we didn't lose one American solder: the people
have named streets after Clinton; he saved a lot of
lives.

The Clinton's have proven to very competent in just about
everything they do: Its shame when they are not perfect
they get raked over the coals.

[merrily]

144. Nope he did not inherit Iraq. It was over. He decided to bomb it all on his own.

Not perfect? LOL! Poster, please. My prior posts to you did not describe a President who was merely "not perfect." Just ask the US, the UK, Portugal, Greece, etc.

[lewebley3]

154. Clinton contained Iraq

[Major Hogwash]

100. Memories . . light the corners of my mind . . misty water-colored memories . . of the way we were

Scattered pictures . . of the smiles we left behind . . smiles we gave to one another . . for the way we were . .

[Rex]

38. The proof is in the pudding. 80 people own over half the worlds wealth. I don't think some folks

can visually wrap their brain around that concept. 80 people out of 7,000,000,000. For that to happen OF COURSE the establishment had to have a hand in it 100%. And not just for 4 or 8 years either...no sir...for decades. This past half century.

The hard part it getting anyone to be a grown adult and admit to helping form American into a militant plutocracy, so we can start forming it into something more akin to democracy and less plutocracy.

I don't know if we can ever get rid of the MIC, Rome might collapse if we did that.

[kristopher]

39. What we need to understand most is that it is a continuing struggle.

Sometimes it seems we're part of a cosmic cycle:

"First they ignore you.
Then they ridicule you.
And then they attack you and want to burn you.
And then they build monuments to you."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016151028

[Festivito]

40. Non-pop Dem-lite is a great gig. Lots of money. Bandaid change or two bring quick results.

If we fight for Bernie, we win big.
If not, if we fight for the bandaid giver. At least the bandaid is better than the uncovered cuts left by the cutter that will get into office. In fact, a lot better.

[turbinetree]

41. Frank Thomas........................."Listen Liberals"...............................

new book pretty much explains what is happening in this party.

And after reflecting on what I was doing through the late 60's and 70's he pretty much has it right, the professionals that have replaced the working class, is now the name of the game, they are not the name of the game.

I highly recommend this book, because this party use to have the worker(s) at the table, union at the table, poor at the table, you name it.
FDR had outsiders on his team, and the New democrats have other ideas, they want those from the educated and there schools and there professions, about telling us what we need, they don't want FDR, well guess what I want my FDR and his New Deal, and Thomas is collectively correct in his book.

This book reinforced my concept as to why I support Bernie Sanders------------------------its about the grass root and FDR


Honk----------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[martigras]

59. Ought to be required reading for any liberal

Great book. Made me dislike the Clintons even more than before. Even Obama comes off pretty badly. I was surprised that Clinton and Obama both wanted to privatize or cut Social Security as did Bush. The average working stiff is not being represented by either party.

[turbinetree]

86. FDR.........................

FDR got it right , and I agree with your analysis



This book should be read, Thomas got is right, in my opinion

I support Bernie Sanders, because I truly believe that he will have outsiders nominated and representing the worker at this table.

That's all I ask for, it really is not much to ask, I want the collective voice of the worker at that table, they do it in Germany, the worker is at that table.

I am not a New Democrat, I am a New Deal Democrat and proud of it, and we will not be shoved aside this time again, and have never even thought about the republicans----------------but when meritocracy is being used to further an agenda, then ENOUGH is ENOUGH

This is one of the cores issues with the Sanders campaign-----------------to try and remind people of the ...................


meritocracy
[mer-i-tok-ruh-see]

Examples
Word Origin

noun, plural meritocracies.
1. an elite group of people whose progress is based on ability and talent rather than on class privilege or wealth.
2. a system in which such persons are rewarded and advanced:
The dean believes the educational system should be a meritocracy.
3. leadership by able and talented persons.



Honk----------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[ReRe]

92. Honk!

Will get book and circulate it amongst my family members and friends.

[turbinetree]

134. Thomas Frank..................................

it was a real eye opener to important issues which I had forgotten all about and especially in the DLC mantra.

I have never been a great believer in there system, but when forced between the two evils, it was just that, forced between the two evils---------------------not anymore

It is a playbook that is being generated now in this election cycle by this particular system, which is and has been in place since 1972 and it then just gained power in 1992, and if anyone doesn't believe this, then there isn't any amount of words to convince them, that the DLC , Third Way professionals, does not want the FDR New Deal in place, they want the New Democrats agenda in place----------------its that simple


Honk---------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

It is about getting a Progressive / Liberal President, U.S. Supreme Court, Congress, and State and Local Legislatures

[Odin2005]

43. This is why I suspect a lot of "Hillary supporters" here are paid.

[GoneOffShore]

150. And obviously not paid enough.

[Enthusiast]

162. Me too.

[rhett o rick]

45. The Democratic Party Elite have abandoned the Working Class years ago. nm

[bobthedrummer]

53. +1

[cantbeserious]

50. When We Stand Together - No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. The Democratic Party, at least the faction of it that's currently in control,

is as much a part of the ruling class as the GOP. They don't want to give away the store to the Little People, so they'll throw us a few crumbs (making sure they throw us more crumbs than the GOP throws) to be sure we don't revolt, and then proceed with business as usual for the 1%.

[lewebley3]

87. The people who control the Dem's are people who have won elections: they should be in charge

Sanders people are left wing tea party people who do
nothing but bash other Dem's that have been putting
their lives on line for the party.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

88. "Put their lives on the line"?

You mean like the time Hillary had to dodge sniper fire in Bosnia?

[lewebley3]

93. You wouldn't ask that if you ever ran for office: you bash at real progressives

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

95. LOL! You want to explain to me how Hillary qualifies as a "real progressive"?

She's a centrist. Always has been. She's pretty close to where Richard Nixon was 45 years ago. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/walker-bragman/hillary-clinton-is-no-pro_b_9204690.html

[Enthusiast]

163. You wouldn't know a real progressive if one bit you on the ass.

[eniwetok]

97. you should put principle before party

Party narratives change. If a Party strays from principles of social justice... then the Party needs to change... not the principles.

[lewebley3]

106. The party is based on principles: it is the basic idea of people 1St

f

[cer7711]

54. Truth!

Let's return to the revolutionary leftist-worker consciousness of the 1930s, the tax policies of the 1950s, and the social justice policies of the . . . well, quite frankly, we're not there yet. (Due to the Republican-led war on women, anti-gay backlash, etc.) Fight on, 99%!

[Scuba]

55. Beautifully put. Thanks.

[Phlem]

56. This^^^!

It is all about fight on and forever. This is about something more than Bernie. It's the realization, awakening, enlightenment to the fact that all we do must be consistent and moved forward.

This has no end and logically shouldn't because once it disappears, the opposing force grows and rules.

If we want a fair and just society, we must all pitch in and never relent. That is what I'm teaching my child.

[Uncle Joe]

58. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Scuba.

[Oldenuff]

63. It would be GREAT if all our fellow Dems who support Hillary

Would turn around and quit trying to bury us.

And DWS...for colluding with the rich in an effort to undermine real change.$

[Enthusiast]

64. This is absolutely true, Scuba. Most voters want real Democrats to run the nation.

They do not want fake ass Democrats that pretend they care.

Bernard has upset the apple cart.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

65. There's a revolution coming.

And it's up to the ruling class as to what kind it will be.
But it is coming.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

68. I've seen stuff from conservatives claiming Republicans are the party of the working class....

Usually portraying Democrats as the party of welfare,...or the elite,....depending on what suits the moment.

[eniwetok]

96. sure... they crash wages then compensate with irresponsible tax cuts.

And they can market that to their advantage.

[lewebley3]

70. Dem's should be about all American'.,not just the working class: Dem's come from all walks of income

[lewebley3]

72. Who are you to complain about what the party has not done: What

office have you run for: I am sick of people attacking the Dem
party: Its a wonderful party that has stood up for the people and
delivered.

[eniwetok]

83. Why are you conflating ALL Dems as one?

The Democratic Party is hardly an entity of one mind. Why are you conflating ALL Dems, corporate, Blue Dog, or progressive, as equally moral? When have ALL Dems tried to rebuild the union movement and end free trade?

Oops.

Sorry. It's been the PROGRESSIVE Dems who have been fighting for the middle and working classes... and the poor... not ALL Dems.

[lewebley3]

91. Hillary and.Obama have done the progressive work: the other Dem's

are just talkers like Sanders:

[eniwetok]

94. I hardly consider Obama or Hillary to be "Progressives"

Not when they have a history of pushing free trade and have contributed to the destruction of unions.

But then even Progressive Dems tend to be too far to the right for me when it comes to finally confronting and reforming our antidemocratic federal system... and reestablishing control over corporations.

My point is from a US perspective... a Bernie Sanders may seem a left wing progressive. But from a European social democratic perspective even a Bernie has right wing tendencies. We just don't call them right wing since the Dems also share the same ideas... that we dare not ever reform our federal system... even if its antidemocratic nature is responsible for much of what Bernie complains about... and we can't launch a counterattack on the corporate form even if it's a creation of government.

[lewebley3]

108. Obama's ACA is the biggest progressive action since LBJ:

The rest of progressives are big ideologues that
have talked a good game like Sanders without
accomplishments: politics is about what is possible:
not empty wishful tinking.

[eniwetok]

145. cherry picking

Sure, one can find a few examples of Obama's liberal policies. But to be called a progressive means looking at all is policies. This doesn't mean those he was blocked from implementing... but those he in good faith pursued... and there the record is hardly as progressive as you present it. He never renegotiated NAFTA as he promised. He instead has pushed for more free trade deals. He refused to prosecute any bankers for imploding the economy. They get to pay fines... using other people's money instead. Unlike FDR who passed Wall Street reforms in 3 months... Dowd Frank took 18... and still was a very weak bill. He never pushed for card check to help rebuild the union movement. And he made permanent most of the irresponsible Bush tax cuts which keeps the Right's Starve The Beast strategy alive.

So on those broad themes... he COULD have been the president who rolled back, or made the moral case to roll back, key elements of the Reagan revolution and didn't. He's helping it become more entrenched.

[lewebley3]

155. No cherry picking: five other President tied before hin:

there is no other bigger progressive action achived by
the Dem's: Obama and Hillary don't talk progressive:like
Sanders: they have progressive accomplishments

[eniwetok]

181. it's cherrypicking because

I called what you wrote as cherrypicking not because ACA isn't an accomplishment... but because you presented it as proof that Obama was a progressive. To reach that conclusion from ACA alone means you have to sweep under the rug the larger part of Obama's record such as what I mentioned... refusing to jail any Wall Street perps, not pushing for strong Wall Street restructuring, continuing to push free trade, making permanent most of Bush's irresponsible tax cuts... etc.

Obama is a corporate Dem... liberal on social issues and entitlements... but a right wing Dem when it comes to economics and refusing to even talk about making our federal system democratic.

[chillfactor]

80. oh come on

instead of whining how about putting the blame on the obstructionist GOP

[Zephyrbag]

104. the leadership of BOTH parties is corrupt

[CorkySt.Clair]

137. Bernie Fans don't know how to bash the GOP

[spanone]

85. K&R...

[JI7]

102. why are many working class white people voting for Donald Trump over Bernie Sanders ?

[eridani]

110. Because they hate Mexicans more than banksters n/t

[Raine]

116. Totally on point! nt

[Lunabell]

117. K&R!

Anyone know who said this?

[bkkyosemite]

127. The party rules for the elite and the establishment's benefit need to go. The people need to

be the only ones who choose their elected officials...bullshit on WY.

[yourout]

128. As much as I hate to say it...November is shaping up to...

An epic disaster for us.

The rigging of the system against Bernie is going to completely drive away the youth vote and combined with all the voter suppression tactics spell big trouble.

Get ready for a republican sweep.

The FBI might be the only thing that can save us.

[CorkySt.Clair]

138. "As much as I hate to say it."

[retrowire]

130. woo rec number 300!!! nt

[B Calm]

140. So true, that's why I fully support Bernie Sanders.

[RedCloud]

147. Supreme court nominee says it all

Instead of sticking it to the racists who seek to mock him at every turn, he has to put out a name that will make repukes leap for joy. When has it ever been the other way? When did W* ask the Dems if they were greatly pleased with his "centrist" appointments?

And Bernie is just rehashing Ike's ideas anyway.

That is how far to the right the USA has drifted as far as getting a real shot in life goes.

[Scuba]

148. Yep. I was pulling for a true progressive, which would have made the Republicans wet their pants.

If they blocked him/her they would look like obstructionists, further damaging their chances in November, while handing the pick to the next administration.

The Bernie could re-nominate that jurist, or name someone even more progressive.

[myrna minx]

149. K&R

[dembotoz]

151. emphasis on working class....tired of all this middle class bs...hell the walton prob think they are

middle class

[MissDeeds]

160. Excellent post, Scuba

A whole lot of truth there.

K&R

[FailureToCommunicate]

165. Worthy post. Thanks!

[HughBeaumont]

182. "They say America needs a third party. It sure could use a second one." - Jim Hightower.

I agree.