Here are the countries with Universal Healthcare

[SHRED]

I get so tired of hearing from many here that "no we can't".

Countries like Mexico, with far less wealth than the USA can do it.

But the "no we can't" faction of our own Democratic Party fights against it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_coverage_by_country

...

[dogman]

1. But then the lobbyists would be unemployed.

They contribute so much, to campaigns.

[NCjack]

30. CEOs would fall onto the safety net. Oh, the shame of that! /nt

[Scuba]

2. And here's a list of the countries that have implemented universal care, then rescinded it ....

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[HughBeaumont]

4. It always makes me laugh . . .

. . . how the Idiocracy extras be like "wall, look ut the countrees tat HAF univrsl helth care, therye going BANKRUP, not lik US". See, I'm still waiting for that giant list of countries that are going to be abandoning their "crippling systems" for our amazing and sensible "for-profit" model. Any day now.

[SHRED]

7. Nice typos...Lol

I know what you mean. I'm seeing more and more typo people in the DU now.

We all make them at times but some are just as bad as the teapublicans.

[Samantha]

48. In some cases, especially mine!, this is caused by typing when really tired

or posting while snoozing. I hope to be freed from this malady when I finish my taxes and the election is resolved. However, I fear I am permanently scarred -- or scared -- or did I mean screwed. Okay, going to take a nap now.

Sam

[laundry_queen]

72. I've noticed the typo thing too

Once upon a time DUers shamed typo people.

However, I do give more people a pass now - so many people post from their phones and while I don't, I can understand the typos. My goddamn thumbs are too big for those puny touchscreen letters. And freakin' autocorrect. Need it, but sheesh, I think I spend as much time correcting autocorrect as I do typing.

When I post here, though, I make a special effort to spell correctly Unfortunately my grammar is not the greatest because I spent most of my schooling learning to write in French. But I do make those judgments when a post has poor spelling, so I do make sure it's all good before I hit post. Usually.

[nxylas]

31. The UK, if Cameron has his way

It's not something the British people want or asked for, but Pigfucker Dave doesn't really work for us.

[HughBeaumont]

76. Eh, Steven Harper tried his damnedest for W with Canada on that front.

Example: child care. My friend and her partner felt that squeeze up in Ottawa.

Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed. Eventually.

[malaise]

33. What a DUzy

clever on steroids

[MattP]

3. We need to win a ton of state houses in 2020

2016 supreme court, 2020 census

[Shadowflash]

5. Hell, Israel has it

And we give them the money to do it.

Maybe we should just keep that here?

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. Hillary..No We Can't.....yeah, let's nominate her.

[treestar]

8. We have it now except for red states

people who don't qualify for Medicaid.

[daleanime]

11. No, we took a step in that direction.....

but we stop well short of finishing the trip.

[treestar]

44. But anyone can be covered

except the people in the red states who can't get medicaid because the states won't expand medicaid. Everyone else kept their coverage or signed up for the ACA or refused to and that's on them. Plus doing away with pre-existing conditions as a reason not to cover someone.

[SHRED]

14. Those of us in the individual markets...

...are paying through the nose for shitty coverage.

[treestar]

45. I need proof of these things

I am paying based on my income (the "affordable" part) and the coverage is sure a lot better than what I had before. I am self employed and it worked out well for me. Now maybe people who make a lot more don't like the affordable part as they may be paying the full freight? I would gladly pay it if I made that much money. But it's not shitty. My deductible is way lower. And I pay copays rather than the full office visit price (which I did before as I was always below the deductible).

There is a lot of preventive care, which is something it promotes. Just paying the copay and I go in for blood pressure and testing for blood sugar regularly and they are trying to prevent me from getting diabetes. It might have waited till I had it before I had symptoms and went in.

[SHRED]

51. Here's where we are at...

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/30/news/economy/obamacare-patients-blue-cross-blue-shield/index.html


My wife and I paid over $14K in 2014 and over $10K last year in healthcare. This includes our subsidized monthly premium we pay of $650 per month in the Covered California exchange (it is a Blue Shield Silver plan which retails for about $1,300 per month).
This is NOT affordable making our AGI of about $55K per year combined.

Yeah it's better but...

[LibDemAlways]

53. I feel your pain. Covered Caifornia is one of the

biggest rip-off, most useless schemes ever. Huge premiums, huge deductibles, minimal coverage. Why we desperately need single payer.

[SHRED]

56. It is expensive for sure

[JDPriestly]

21. A lot of people don't qualify for Medicaid. They still need healthcare insurance.

A lot of people can't afford the co-pays for health insurance when they are between jobs or have just learned they are sick and quit their jobs. And people who are in their 50s and can't get jobs need health insurance. I have friends in these situations so I know that Medicaid even here in California (Medical) leaves too many people out.

[flamingdem]

64. Before it left out single adults! It's so much more inclusive now

Before it was a nightmare for single adults, there was nothing.

[LibDemAlways]

36. Not true. In California the crappy plans

offered by Covered California are out of the reach of many people who don't qualify for MediCal. Premiums and deductibles are sky high, and the coverage is a joke. For many people the ACA is not working. We need single payer.

[treestar]

46. Well come up with an example

The subsidies mean it is "affordable" and not out of reach. Unless people just don't want to pay anything for their health insurance or went without it but at least weren't paying for it and now think the payment a bad things.

Single payer would still require then a raise in taxes proportionate to what people pay now for their health care. And I would not think California refused the medicaid expansion. California even has state relief the federal government doesn't provide - that is why right wingers call it the Left Coast.

[LibDemAlways]

50. I don't owe you an example, but since you asked.... I have a close relative who

lost his job and was out of work for over a year, during which time he was hanging on by a thread and rapidly depleting his savings. After his ridiculously expensive COBRA ran out, he signed up for the silver plan through Covered California to the tune of $675 a month -- while still unemployed. He generated his only income during this period by renting out his 1 bedroom heavily mortgaged condo and moving in with me. Although he was in financial straits, he did not meet the criteria for MediCal or a subsidy because of the income from the rental and the small amount of retirement money he had set aside. He's 55 and will need that money if he intends to have any kind of decent future.

Shortly after signing up for the Silver Plan, he suffered a health crisis and landed in a hospital emergency room. The ridiculously crappy plan proved useless and his few hours in the ER added up to the tune of $5000 plus $800 for that ambulance ride plus $2800 for another ambulance ride transferring him to another facility where he chalked up a $12,000 bill -- all out of pocket expenses not covered by the shitty, useless plan.

This episode sent him into a total financial freefall. and out of respect I am not going to describe what happened next.

The sanctimonious tone of your response grates. Until and unless you personally have been screwed by "Covered California," you really have no right to judge.

[smirkymonkey]

68. Stories like this make me so angry!

I am so sorry for your relative. The healthcare situation in this country is just criminal.

[Dont call me Shirley]

39. Medicare, Medicaid, VA are all forms of government health coverage. ACA is private insurers.

[treestar]

47. Does it matter how it gets paid for?

Direct government funds or through private insurers. In Switzerland and Germany then, you'd be arguing they don't have universal coverage.

[Dont call me Shirley]

49. YES! Private insurance corporations and health care institutions rake a hefty 20%+ profit off the

top. Therefore they either need to minimize or eliminate services, raise deductibles and copays to make up for the "loss". Government overhead is 3%, they can begin to negotiate drug prices, create laws which mandate hospitals are not for profit, cap prices on medical services.

[Hoyt]

55. Actually, they don't make a 20% profit, no where near that. It's more like 6% or so. Most of that

Most of that 20% -- and under ACA it's 15% for large plans -- goes for maintaining networks of providers, negotiating fees, negotiating drug prices (which Medicare doesn't do), measuring and controlling quality, monitoring utilization, signing up people, sales, taking on risk, investing in systems, etc. Yeah, some of that could be eliminated with Medicare for all, but there is not enough savings to do Sanders' plan. I've been for single payer since 1980s, but Sanders needs to level with people what it is going to take in taxes and patient sacrifices. But, he's not.

Government's overhead is not 3% either. Government uses private insurers to administer Medicare. Government uses other departments that don't show up in that 3% you quote -- like the Treasury Department to collect monthly premiums paid by Medicare beneficiaries. And 30+% of Medicare beneficiaries sign up for Medicare Advantage Plan because they believe traditional Medicare sucks.

[Dont call me Shirley]

58. Tax the .01% like we did under Eisenhower, force mega corporations to pay more than 11%, tax

on electronic stock transactions, higher capital gains taxes, raise cap on SS and Medicare. Take away for profit status for ALL hospitals, nursing homes, negotiate drug prices and many other cost cutting belt tightening for the bloated for profit health corporations. United healthcare was skimming 30% profit off the top before the ACA rule. 3% is Medicare overhead.

Healthcare is a right for all not a priveledge for some! Other countries can do it so can we! WTF!

[Hoyt]

65. Take everything the .01%, or 5%ers have. After a year, maybe less, that would all be gone.

Then, you could go against the next 5%ers, then the next.

And, that assumes what they have doesn't pretty much evaporate when you start taking it because what they have is mostly on paper. Everything would dry up and you could write this generation's version of the Grapes of Wrath from first hand experience. Of course, you'd be competing with tens of millions of others writing the same thing.

Medicare's overhead is more than 3%, commercial insurers aren't make 15 or 20% profit, etc. it's more complicated than you making. I do agree, we need to figure out how to do something. It would help if Sanders would be honest about the cost of Single Payer for all with no copays, etc. I think that alone will eat up all the money he plans to spend on education, increases SS, jobs, etc. As long as gullible people will support him, he won't be honest.

[Dont call me Shirley]

67. Good. Maybe after they've paid all our medical bills for making us sick by poisoning our air, water

soil and food they will have figured out that polluting humans and our planet wasn't such a good idea then, because now they have nothing. Make them pay for all their sickening toxins, tax them to poverty and sickness.

[JDPriestly]

54. Switzerland and Germany do not have FOR PROFIT insurance companies providing their universal

healthcare coverage. The problem here is that most Americans cannot afford to pay the extra sums that constitute the PROFIT of the for-profit insurance companies.

[Rex]

9. We can't have free health care in America, that would help out the working class too much.

Lord knows, nobody wants that!

[cantbeserious]

10. Bernie Is The Only Antidote For The Corrupt Nation Once Known As America

eom

[brooklynite]

12. Simple question: explain how we will?

[SHRED]

13. I'll refer you to the experts...

http://www.pnhp.org/

[brooklynite]

17. ...so far, they haven't been very successful.

Bottom line, you have to get a majority in both the House and Senate who believe this is the TOP issue to deal with. That won't happen until at least 2022.

[thesquanderer]

26. At least 2022 is still within the potential timeframe of our next president.

Most of us can be patient, while building toward a system that is better for the patient!

[AllyCat]

38. And elect a POTUS that believes this. I can think of only one.

[Rex]

16. Cut the out of control military budget to pay for it?

Such simple answers...too bad nobody cares.

[brooklynite]

20. Pointless response...

...in the political system we currently have, no more likely to happen.

[Rex]

22. Wrong, pointless response from D.C. to fix the problem.

Yes I know you just can't get anything fixed, ever. Nobody can.

[brooklynite]

24. Snark aside, explain how, in the political system we DO have, you and Sanders will get this done?

[Rex]

25. Dunno how Sanders will get it done, go ask one of his supporters.

Well first off, how about making all 'health' insurance non-profit so we can take the devil out of the details? Both HRC and Sanders are more then capable of doing this.

Also, I bring up the MIC since we've had it now for about...oh...50 plus years and it seems a total failure. When will D.C. try and enact policy change so some of the wasted trillions can trickle into the social safety net? Faith ain't gonna fix our crumbling bridges.

[brooklynite]

27. Once again, you're giving a technical answer. You need a political one

To achieve ANY of your proposals, you need a majority of the House and Senate.

[Rex]

71. Well I've been told the House won't be obtainable until 2020.

Then I wonder in 2020, what will be the next excuse. Seriously, I do blame 99% of this on the GOP...so I really don't know how to answer that politically that would be satisfactory to the GOP...they don't seem to get it or care.

Can't tell which one.

[Dont call me Shirley]

41. Tax the .01%, like we used to under Eisenhower.

[JDPriestly]

15. The goal can be achieved in a number of ways, but here we already have Medicare and its

administrative costs are low compared to the costs of private for-profit insurance so why not use Medicare as the starting point?

Everyone needs healthcare at some point in their life. Most don't need a lot of it when they are young and earning money. As with Medicare, we should have a system in which we pool our money to pay for healthcare. We should pay in when we are doing well and don't need it, and we should pay in for those who can't afford to pay in for themselves.

It's just a sensible thing to do.

If we had universal healthcare, we could have special programs to deal with addiction. We could do so much scientific, public health research that we aren't doing now.

Hey, guys (as my two-year-old very sociable granddaughter likes to say), let's do this!

Go, Bernie!

[Rex]

18. It's because somebody has to make money off of it. We just cannot handle a truly free system

that benefits the entire nation. Nobody profits but the workers.

[pnwmom]

19. No Dem is fighting universal healthcare. Many of those countries,

including Switzerland and Canada, have hybrid public/private systems, as the ACA enacted. What kept ours from being truly universal was the Rethug governors who blocked the Medicaid expansion in their states.

[thesquanderer]

28. Even with the medicaid expansion, we wouldn't have universal healthcare.

We'd be closer to universal health insurance, but that's not the same as universal health care. A big problem with the ACA is that people must buy coverage, but due to high deductibles and copays, people who have the coverage sometimes don't use it, except for catastrophic emergency. That would arguably be okay if they were only paying for catastrophic coverage (the cheapest plans, generally now unavailable to most people), but many are paying for higher priced plans that they still avoid using (which is wonderful for the insurance companies). ACA was a step in the right direction, it is better than nothing (which is what we had before the ACA). But we can do better.

[pnwmom]

29. Then you would have to say Switzerland doesn't because they rely on INSURANCE

as do many of the other countries on the list.

I agree with you, however, that we can do better. The ACA was just a start, just as Medicare has been improved over the years. And Hillary Clinton wants to improve it, too.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland

Healthcare in Switzerland is universal[3] and is regulated by the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance. There are no free state-provided health services, but private health insurance is compulsory for all persons residing in Switzerland (within three months of taking up residence or being born in the country).[4][5][6] International civil servants, members of embassies, and their family members are exempted from compulsory health insurance. Requests for exemptions are handled by the respective cantonal authority and have to be addressed to them directly.[7]

The whole healthcare system is geared toward the general goals of promoting general public health and reducing costs while encouraging individual responsibility.

Health insurance covers the costs of medical treatment and hospitalisation of the insured. However, the insured person pays part of the cost of treatment. This is done (a) by means of an annual deductible (called the franchise), which ranges from CHF 300 (PPP-adjusted US$ 184) to a maximum of CHF 2,500 (PPP-adjusted $1,534) for an adult as chosen by the insured person (premiums are adjusted accordingly) and (b) by a charge of 10% of the costs over and above the excess up to a stop-loss amount of CHF 700 (PPP-adjusted $429).

Switzerland has an infant mortality rate of about 3.6 out of 1,000. The general life expectancy in 2013 was for men 80.5 years compared to 84.8 years for women.[8] These are among the world's best figures.[9]

[thesquanderer]

37. If our deductibles were as low as Switzerland's we'd be in much better shape! (n/t)

[pnwmom]

40. Medicare wasn't built in a day and neither will the ACA, if we can change Congress. n/t

[LiveLong101]

23. What does the Democratic Party stand for?

If it is no we can't on health care then this is not the same Democratic Party that I want to belong to.

[Sancho]

32. Most countries have gun control - I think we need that just as badly...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation

Universal health care is probably going to happen. It's on the horizon with Medicare, Medicaid, and the ACA established.

It would also be nice if there was international currency control - which is a prime contributor to inequality.

We have as many as 30 million undocumented Americans - and maybe 11 million dreamers. 25% of Florida was born outside of the US. Will all those people without a shred of documentation be eligible for single payer (if that is what you are proposing)?

What you can't have is the "same" system as other countries, and maybe you don't want the "same" system as other countries. Certainly, there is a majority of Americans who have rejected "single payer".

[jmowreader]

34. Pick a nation on that list that has the exact system Bernie wants

NO nation has 100-percent funding of private-sector-provided medical, dental, vision and prescriptions with no copays and no deductibles, completely funded by taxes, and outlaws anyone going outside the public system. England has copays AND they own most of the medical system AND there is a parallel healthcare system outside the NHS. Canada doesn't pay for prescriptions at all. Most of the other nations on your list operate Obamacare-like systems.

[stupidicus]

35. you can never arrive at a destination you aren't willing to travel to

and that's what the Hillarians simply lack the intelligence or integrity to admit because it makes her the impediment to arrival.

[Dont call me Shirley]

42. China, Russia, India, but no, it's impossible in the US....

[SHRED]

52. Have you investigated USA healthcare outcomes...

...compared to these other countries?

Not good.

[SHRED]

70. Thanks for clarification

Yes we are and yes we can!

[LibDemAlways]

62. There is plenty of substandard

health care in the US too. I've witnessed it with both my elderly father and mother. She recently was having stomach pains the cause of which were misdiagnosed by several doctors until she finally by sheer luck happened on to a doctor who knew what he was doing. 10 years ago 5 different doctors failed to find a cancerous tumor. She got lucky with doctor #6. It's frightening.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

57. You've answered the wrong objection.

There are two senses in which one might say that free-at-point-of-use state funded healthcare "wouldn't work" in the USA.

One is that, if implemented, it would do more harm than good.

The other is that there is no chance of getting it implemented through a Republican-controlled House.

This list acts as a reasonable refutation of the first argument.

But the reason America can't have free-at-point-of-use healthcare - and the reasons it can't have nice things in general - is that the Republicans control the House, and are very likely to do so until at least the next redistricting. And this list is irrelevant to that.

[flamingdem]

59. Consider quality - I wouldn't want to be sick in many of those countries

Plus, in some of those countries people simply cannot afford care, at all, so they MUST cover them, salaries are higher here generally.

My number one concern is quality and not having to wait for care. I'll pay for that.

Something has to be done to lower prices, that is a must.

[SHRED]

60. Check this out

U.S. Ranks Below 16 Other Rich Countries In Health Report

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/01/09/168976602/u-s-ranks-below-16-other-rich-countries-in-health-report

[flamingdem]

63. Interesting, that's why I stick to using Ucla

There's a lot of poor quality out there.

I've experienced hospitals in England, Germany and Cuba and didn't feel good with any of those.

Care is more comfortable and I suspect higher quality here if you've got the right situation. Plenty of smaller cities lack good doctors and facilities though - ymmv

[ErikJ]

61. The top 1% wealth has increased by $1 TRILLION in the last 10 yrs

So yeah, we have way more than enough.

[enid602]

66. single payer

Youll notice that the vast majority don't have single payer.

[eridani]

74. If they don't, they have single buyer

Systems entirely controlled by the government, as in France. Regulated private insurance exists only for the 30% copays.

[enid602]

75. France (and Belgium, Germany, etc)

I think (and surely wish) we'll end up with something similar here. But I don't think it will be single payer.

[eridani]

77. To be similar, irsurance companies would be forbidden to make profits n/t

[enid602]

78. insurance

That's the whole idea. If the insurance companies refuse to play ball, then we'll need the single payer. Insurance companies in France, Belgium, Germany make money, but they don't call the shots.

[KelleyKramer]

73. Thanks for posting, that's going on my FB page

There are a few right wing friends I can't wait to see what they say

[Blue_In_AK]

79. One that is missing is Costa Rica.

One of my granddaughters was born in Costa Rica and the cost was a tiny fraction of what the bill was for her brother in LA. Whole my daughter's family was in Costa Rica for eight months, they were able to use all clinic facilities for free, as if they were full citizens. In fact, when Sofia was born, the rest of the family was given the option of becoming citizens if they wanted to fill out some paperwork.

[SHRED]

80. Wow.

[Blue_In_AK]

82. So different from here

where certain parties want to deny citizenship even to American-born kids of undocumented immigrants.

I just double-checked the rules, and actually it was permanent residency, not citizenship, offered to the families of children born in Costa Rica, but permanent residents have all the advantages of citizenship except for voting. They can apply for full citizenship after a period of residency and don't have to denounce their US citizenship.

[B Calm]

81. I'm sure Hillary will work on it about as soon as she gets marijuana legalized.