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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAre we humans an evolutionary mistake?
Last edited Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:48 PM - Edit history (2)
We humans, as far as we know, are the most advanced species on this planet. Over many millennia, a few members of our species have figured out that we are one small planet orbiting a star, in a universe of countless stars, galaxies, etc. Einstein figured out the speed limit of the universe, and that time and space are a single entity.
Others have discovered cures to diseases, and countless ways in which to heal humans and other living creatures. And still others have figured out so much more about how, and why things work.
Human scientists have discovered and interpreted so much more than most us can even begin to grasp. It really boggles the mind how far human knowledge has advanced with such infinitesimal clues.
Yet, when we look at the behavioral/belief aspects of human beings, we seem to be incredibly childlike, superstitious, and determined to destroy ourselves well before we can reach maturity.
The history of human behavior has demonstrated the genius with which we humans use scientific advancements to destroy other human beings. The most important thing we seem to have learned from the scientific revelations of the past is how to more efficiently kill each other.
And beyond that, we have divided ourselves by geography, color, language, tribes, dogma, and every other imaginable human characteristic.
But this is DU, so let me get to the point. The current primary campaign of the Republican Party is beyond an embarrassment to the human species. Trump? Cruz? The rest? The phrase clown car is totally insufficient, but it was the best we could do. In reality, the term Knuckle Draggers has become an almost meaningless cliché, but more closely describes the GOP lineup of both those who have dropped out and those still running.
Their expressed values, world views, and solutions, are a mountain of bullshit so immense as to require the largest herd of cattle that ever existed to produce it. And, of course, these candidates and ex-candidates know it. Theyre playing to the lowest common denominator of what can charitably be called human intelligence. Theyll say or do anything, anything, necessary to get the nomination.
So let me say this. Given the state of todays Republican Party, I really believe that those with all the traits of Caligula, Mussolini, or worse could be considered viable candidates by the poor ignorant fools who are casting votes or backing them in caucuses. For some insane reason, Fox News has more influence on human thought than the concepts of Galileo, or Stephan Hawking.
It really makes one wonder if the human species is an evolutionary mistake that will go the way of the dinosaurs.
And of course, theres the Dem primary. But this is not the forum to discuss our differences. Ill just say we hold differing versions of a future that is far Superior than anything that can ever be offered to us by a Republican Party that has gone off the deep end.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)it takes whatever turns it takes. But, note that the modern homo sapiens has not been around for a relatively long time in the billions of years of Earth history.
Since it's impossible for science to see where we are headed, science fiction has explored the possibilities, and, if we don't destroy ourselves in the meantime, we could be headed for a magnificent future once we finish evolving and get rid of our old simian and tribal reactions.
Of course, there's always an asteroid, or that humongous blob of magma out West set to go off. Either one could destroy the plan.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)lifetime. Whales nostrils moved to the top of their head, their legs changed dramatically as they transitioned from terrestrial to
aquatic.
Humans changed from quadrupedal to bipedal for better survival. Their early arboreal existence led to need stereoscopic vision for climbing and jumping in trees.
As long as the changes enhance existence the species continues to live. But, Earth changes will often doom species that were unable to evolve fast enough to combat the rigors of the new conditions.
I wouldn't say that modern human design is a mistake. But, it begins to appear that the challenges of overpopulation and socialization
are begin ing to overwhelm the population. If we don't adapt rather quickly, the Earth's population of humans could go down to near zero if not actually zero.
Our flaws? Greed and arrogance.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 20, 2016, 12:13 PM - Edit history (1)
Far too often humans are competitive wherein cooperation would lead to a better future. Far too often, events are win/lose rather than win/win. Often, as you say, fueled by greed and arrogance. If not corrected, I do not see much of a future for the human species which will eventually wipe itself out given the present course. The driving force for a competitive nature, greed and arrogance is likely a result of evolutionary survival of the fittest.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)I want to point out that most of our behaviors are based of survival necessities from the past. Our problem stems from the fact that the challenges to survival are changing at an exponential rate making it difficult for us to adapt. Yet, adapt we must if we wish to survive.
"The driving force for a competitive nature, greed and arrogance are likely a result of evolutionary survival of the fittest. "
If greed and arrogance continue to drive our behavior, we weren't the fittest. The "fittest" are those with enough analytic al skill to see that raw physical power is no longer the key. Connections and quality of life issues are part of an individual's personal set of values with regard to what does and doesn't work. There are already millions of humans who have reached this level of enlightenment. But, they are outnumbered by the less enlightened who are, by their lack of comprehension. selecting the wrong leaders.
Interestingly enough, Socrates, in the Dialogues of Plato circa 400 B.C.E discussed this very issue.
This paragraph by Hokusai might be interesting to some people on DU.
"From the age of six I had a mania for drawing the shapes of things. When I was fifty I had published a universe of designs. but all I have done before the the age of seventy is not worth bothering with. At seventy five I'll have learned something of the pattern of nature, of animals, of plants, of trees, birds, fish and insects. When I am eighty you will see real progress. At ninety I shall have cut my way deeply into the mystery of life itself. At a hundred I shall be a marvelous artist. At a hundred and ten everything I create; a dot, a line, will jump to life as never before. To all of you who are going to live as long as I do, I promise to keep my word. I am writing this in my old age. I used to call myself Hokosai, but today I sign my self 'The Old Man Mad About Drawing." -- Hokusai
(Japan's most famous watercolor painter of the 19th Century)
I believe that Bernie had his "Hokusai moment" during the past few years. He realized how somethings about the "patterns of " politics and decided to act upon them for the benefit of his fellow Americans. He might be "The Old Mad Mad about politics."
America is fortunate to have citizens of his stature who are willing to lead us.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)watch/listen to many politicians today their rhetoric is so immature it is infantile. And a sadness comes over me as to the future of the United States if one of these childish juveniles were to become president.
Most have little meaningful substance in what they say and often sound like bullies on a gradeschool playground.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)see that DU does have some outstanding thinkers in our midst. Keep on sharing your thoughts with us.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Mistakes that somehow end up being advantages. We know the mass of the universe and accept the fact we can only see a fraction of it, pretty smart mistakes if you ask me.
I would say life was a mistake or just random chance. I would say all life anywhere in the universe is a mistake or random chance given enough time. 13 billion years promises mistakes galore.
exboyfil
(17,914 posts)based upon thermodynamics considerations.
Here is an abstract.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0895717794901880
The origin of life should not be seen as an isolated event. Rather it represents the emergence of yet another class of processes whose goal is the dissipation of thermodynamic gradients. Life should be viewed as the most sophisticated (until now) end in the continuum of development of natural dissipative structures from physical to chemical to autocatalytic to living systems.
Not random chance.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Worthy of it's own thread!
ladjf
(17,320 posts)to meet the life requirements of that particular individual.
Life and death aren't moral issues. They are physical events.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Still I would say we are a very wondrous mistake or the universe has a hidden sense of irony. What really gets me is how the known universe refuses to allow us to peer at it at a certain level. As if something conscience was going on. Look away and I am a wave, look at me and I am a particle...life and death are a small part of what goes on between trillions of particles at a level we cannot even observe directly. Strange shit.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)There will be some unique discoveries made by this instrument, particularly in regard to the origins of our Universe.
Rex
(65,616 posts)This is why I grimace when Congress puts a moron in charge of NASA's purse strings. We always need to be looking up and out at the night sky and asking questions.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)to put some serious thought into the nature of our existence. Thanks.
Rex
(65,616 posts)This is a great thread, I love to read what people think about life and the universe. So many smart people, with ideas I would have never thought of.
Cyrano
(15,251 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 20, 2016, 03:05 PM - Edit history (1)
I know your post is not in response to my OP, but I love the fact that "a good number of people" here, give so much "serious thought into the nature of our existence."
The fact that many people on DU reflect on concepts that are esoteric and abstract, offers a bit of hope that perhaps we humans can avoid putting an end to ourselves.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But in the grand scheme of things humans will go extinct like 99 percent of life on earth already has
exboyfil
(17,914 posts)at a technological state for detection. One of the variables in the Drake Equation.
I personally think technological life is extremely rare. Rare such that one technological civilization in our entire galaxy is not unreasonable. Evolution does not necessarily push towards tool use, and even tool use does not guarantee an advancement towards higher forms of technology.
Mistake is not the right word. We are what we are. Perhaps our machines will give our species a form of immortality (or at least a civilization measured in billions of years). Perhaps not.
pscot
(21,030 posts)if we don't change our ways in a hurry.
exboyfil
(17,914 posts)The most powerful nation on earth have candidates that deny fundamental scientific concepts and believe, without any evidence, that the supernatural regularly intervenes in our affairs.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Someday we'll live on Venus
And men will walk on Mars
But we will still be monkeys
Down deep inside
Only because that's what we are - the hairless ape with reflexive consciousness.
DamnYankeeInHouston
(1,365 posts)Animals use tools and wonder.
exboyfil
(17,914 posts)but some compelling things make me think that technological life is exceedingly rare.
1. The run of the dinosaurs. None developed even rudimentary tool use over the the span of 160 M years.
2 In most cases the available time window is 8 billion years or so. We used up nearly 2/3rds of our time getting to this point. Now you can argue that red dwarfs extend that window immensely but given that goldilocks planets are going to be tidally locked and subject to significantly more EM radiation - I have to wonder.
3. Our species passed through a series of keyhole events (as well as the planet). Any one could have spelled doom for us reaching a state of technology.
4. The need to be a 2nd or 3rd generation sun so that our solar system would possess higher periodic elements. We may be at the top of a wave of technological civilizations to follow.
One interesting book I read about five years ago is Rare Earth. Before that I was a Star Trek kind of guy seeing the possibility of civilizations every few light years.
Still I think we should continue to look, and I would be exceedingly overjoyed if we detected another technological civilization.
DamnYankeeInHouston
(1,365 posts)Crunchy Frog
(26,877 posts)that there could be anything in the Universe more sophisticated than themselves.
randome
(34,845 posts)Because evolution is a random process, not a logical entity. I think the larger landscape of knuckle-dragging Republicans simply reflects the fact that a large power base -Conservative white men- is dying out. Hopefully to be replaced with something more advanced.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
exboyfil
(17,914 posts)Evolution is not. It is a cumulative result of descent with modifications. You can see that it is not random when considering convergent evolution. Examples include mammals and Australian marsupials that inhabit the same ecological niches or Ichthyosaurs, sharks, and dolphins.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)control, We will overwhelm our host (the earth) and die choking on our own waste.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)It can neither make a mistake or rack up a big win.
It bothers me that you are using a scientific term in a non-scientific sense.
Xipe Totec
(44,011 posts)And since evolution is a random process without purpose, there is no such thing as an evolutionary mistake.
Let's keep religion out of evolution.
Mother Nature tried countless- literally countless - variations on life. Some of them turned out successful - one might look at ants in their countless trillions - and others were more of a dead end.
Humans were successful. The problem is that while evolution can generate intelligence in the form of a complex brain that is self aware, it can't confer wisdom, which is a product of experience and deep reflection. And wisdom is what is needed for intelligent creatures to survive over the long - in evolutionary terms - run.
Intellectually we are still adolescents at best, taking the species as a whole. Many precocious ones have contributed profound insights to our understanding of the world in which we live and of which we are a part, but the more immature ones still like to believe in fairytales about omnipotent Invisible Sky Wizards and other such juvenile cant.
The problem is that when the advanced technology dreamed up by the smart ones falls into the hands of those who have the foresight of a six-year old and are focused solely on immediate self-gratification, species-destroying disaster is a distinct possibility
longship
(40,416 posts)He has "an inordinate fondness for beetles."
And of course Stephen J Gould always claimed that the major life form on Earth was bacteria, which is undoubtedly true as well.
But beetles will do. There are an awful lot of them and Haldane's statement certainly puts things in proper perspective.
Link: J. B. S. Haldane, one of the most quotable scientists ever.
exboyfil
(17,914 posts)Three billion years single cell microbes did not have to share the planet with any other life form.
Of course which is more favored - Archaea or Bacteria? Evidence suggests that God must have favored Bacteria because God relegated Archaea mostly to hot pools (kind of like Hell I guess).
longship
(40,416 posts)But one still has to love Haldane's snarky response. After all, people can actually see that beetles are fucking everywhere. My old house is full of them, especially in my 100+ year old cellar.
Cyrano
(15,251 posts)living in a home near me. I don't know who will be living there 100+ years from now, but if the modern day GOP keeps ignoring "climate change" there may not be any human beings living there or many of the other regions our species now inhabits.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)in history, photosynthesis.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)Dalai_1
(1,301 posts)Our success is our greatest failure ... like a weed growing
out of control will eventually strangle itself.
0rganism
(24,433 posts)the notion that evolution makes mistakes is imho an inappropriate personification of what is really a continuing process.
as far as our species goes, it will follow the path of every other species over time: evolve into something else or disappear. "going the way of the dinosaurs" is not such a scary prospect when viewed that way -- after a highly successful span of millions of years as dominant life forms across the planet, dinosaurs Evolved, which is pretty much the best case scenario for a species in the grand scheme of things. we should hope we can do as well in a few million years.
our species does have some special attributes which might give some a mistaken impression that we are somehow an integral part of some "evolutionary endgame", but i think this belies the nature of what is inherently an ongoing universal biological process.
exboyfil
(17,914 posts)they are a true marvel to see what dinosaurs have become. My daughter did a series of dissections for a class project, and one of them was a pigeon. I was just astounded at the evolutionary modifications for flight.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)The result of an intra-genus genetic arms race over social intelligence. Such success that we hold great power and lack all self-control or insight.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...either everything is an evolutionary "mistake" or nothing is.
There is no in between.
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)Life is opportunistic at the moment.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)Maybe earth is due for another......
2naSalit
(91,195 posts)some life form who came to this planet in nonphysical form, "borrowed" DNA from species already here for physical building blocks so we could exist within the biosphere... but our purpose is looking like we came here to destroy the biosphere of the planet. Once this one is trashed to the point of uninhabitability, we will figure out how to transport our nonphysical selves to yet another location and proceed to trash that.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)If we're not a mistake, we're still a colossal fuck-up.
lindysalsagal
(22,049 posts)...Buuuuuutttt-
"It's gawds willlllllll!
mountain grammy
(27,061 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,544 posts)...are we producing fewer math teachers today compared to years ago?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)As are the things you listed as bad. The words we're using exist nowhere but in our heads. The word evolution only exists in our abstract imagination. We created it, and then defined it. Whatever the process of evolution is, it doesn't care what we think of it, or what we call it. You don't even get any points for being pro-evolution. It just is, happens regardless of whether you believe it or not, has no value, and we can't objectively control it.
Are we an evolutionary mistake? It depends on your particular point of view, which doesn't even matter.
The Republican Party primary is an embarrassment to the human species? In what objective way is that correct? It's as correct as people on the other side saying the Democratic Party primary is an embarrassment to the human species. It's all subjective. Who made humans the most advanced species on the planet? Oh yeah, we did. Oddly enough too, since we're the ones defining it. What are the odds of us thinking we're the best?
hatrack
(60,416 posts)And one that let us survive, in one form or another, for some hundreds of thousands of years.
It's just in combination with technology and the ability to liberate large amounts of carbon that what had been beneficial attributes became problematic.
spanone
(137,332 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Your basic mistake is believing that evolution is cued to logic. It is not.
Learn about basic cognitive errors, and how human consciousness works.
Then, perhaps, you may be embarrassed enough by this post to delete.
Crunchy Frog
(26,877 posts)It's a force of nature, and no more capable of making a "mistake" than an earthquake or a hurricane.
The dinosaurs were incredibly successful BTW.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Imagination can lead to both creation and destruction.
kentuck
(112,399 posts)that are quickly evolving to the point they will not know when to get out of the rain. If ignorance is bliss, then why aren't we more happy?
librechik
(30,778 posts)It seems to me that humans were not designed to walk upright. When they do, against gravity and without support of the forearms, eventually the hips quit working. The replacements are usually much better anatomy for walking.
explain that!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)unfortunately, except in rare circumstances (altruism in kinship groups), most behavior that is kindhearted and giving tends to be maladaptive in a "nature red in tooth and claw" world. with primates it is a bit more nuanced because primates have a strong social structure, but greedy, selfish and even malevolent behavior towards others tends to give one advantages in survival and reproduction.
it explains the republican philosophy perfectly.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)But remember, the dinosaurs ruled for nearly 200 million years. Hardly a mistake.
JCMach1
(27,889 posts)Our legacy to the universe will be the self-aware, self-replicating robots we send out to the stars...