Oregon: Feds allow "militiamen" to look like a**holes

[Cyrano]

The federal govt. has taken a lot of crap for seeming to ignore the "militia takeover" of an Oregon wildlife facility. But it turns out that the nuts assembled out there with their arsenal and their demands, are beginning to look like the fools they are.

In what is starting to look like a genius move, the federal government and local law enforcement have mostly kept their distance in the two weeks since an unknown number of out-of-town, rag-tag militiamen stormed the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Oregon and vowed to stay until the federal government turned over its land to local ranchers.

So far authorities have declined to confront the men or to put the squeeze on them by restricting movement to and from the refuge or even to turn off the electricity, which might help draw the men out of the compound in the freezing January days.

But the lack of confrontation by federal officials has not only prevented it from becoming the next Waco or Ruby Ridge but transformed it into a peculiar and mundane sideshow, a one-sided standoff where the militiamen's days are marked by visits from wacky outsiders like pretend judge Bruce Doucette coming to sniff out "evidence" against the federal government and from disgruntled community members ready for the men to leave already.

By leaving the would-be revolutionaries to their own devices, authorities have given them enough rope to hang themselves.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/bundy-standoff-enters-third-week-of-ridiculousness

IMO, the government will let them sit out there as long as they want and arrest them later on a variety of charges.

Then again, there's always the chance that the crazies will get frustrated and find a way to escalate the situation.

[underpants]

1. Not hard to do n/t

[L. Coyote]

4. Domestic Terrorist Policy states:

If they are no smarter than a word salad just tell them, "Please proceed." [center]

#RefugeRally Event News - Rallies in Eugene, Bend, Seattle, Portland,... Noon Jan 19th

[RKP5637]

2. I now think the feds are doing the right thing, by letting them expose to the world the fools they

are. And, the fools are racking up a lot of potential charges against themselves.

[L. Coyote]

5. The meeting last night garnered a total of 30 attendees, the terrorists, reporters,

a few supporters, one lost guy, and with the janitor, 30 people.

[center]What if you held a revolution and everyone trolled you, erstwhile rolling on the floor laughing?

The #BundyBunch was spotted this morning, foraging for snacks.

[RKP5637]

7. ...

[jeff47]

3. Why would there be any charges?

There were no charges the last time. Why would there be charges this time?

Heck, Bundy still owes millions in grazing fees.

[Bigmack]

24. And he owns an equipment repair company...

... the Feds could maybe seize.

http://www.valetfleetservice.com/

[Johonny]

6. criminals can be wacky entertaining, but I'd rather be entertained by them from their jail cell...

I think anyone that's seen one of the 4 billion episodes of "COPS" understands this, but oddly, though criminals can be wacky entertaining, in those episodes of "COPS" the police still arrest the criminals. They're entertaining us with their stupid is not justification for doing nothing. It certain has never been an excuse before...

[Cyrano]

10. The "excuse" is Ruby Ridge and Waco

Just because no one has been charged with anything, or arrested yet, doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

But the government is absolutely right to try to defuse this situation and avoid any bloodshed.

I believe these decisions were made directly by President Obama and Attorney General Loretta Lynch. And they deserve all the credit in the world for the way they've played it so far.

And I also believe that charges will be brought, and arrests will be made, at a later date.

It's possible that the crazies holed up out there will try to escalate the situation to the point where they can't be ignored. And that's a very real danger right now. Imo, these guys are aching for a heated conflict. They need "martyrs" for their "cause."

[Johonny]

15. You make sound as if law enforcement has never suseesfully dealt with armed criminals

when they in fact do this every day. I tired of the special treatment and the "act" that it isn't special treatment.

[Cyrano]

16. These aren't just "armed criminals"

These people in Oregon want an armed confrontation. They badly need martyrs to publicize and help broaden their "cause."

The "militia" movement in this country is part of a broader, loose coalition of hate/anti-government/racist organizations. Google the Southern Poverty Law Center. They have a comprehensive list of such groups and track them regularly.

[Johonny]

18. I understand your point. It just isn't convincing. I'm not convinced.

You act like violent criminals wanting confrontation also never happens to our law enforcement when we all know it happens, once again, nearly every single day.

[Cyrano]

21. See posts 17 and 20 below

[Johonny]

26. Those are good posts

[phantom power]

8. Assuming that *is* their strategy, it's based on a big-ass assumption...

which is that there is some large group of people whose opinions could be swayed by watching them in action. I think it is much more likely that if you're capable of seeing these guys and realizing they are ridiculous, and assholes, then you already knew that, and didn't really need to see this play out.

Conversely, the demographic that they are encouraging, and hoping to recruit, is not going to see this and change their minds, it's only encouraging them.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. What demographic is that? I think part of the point is that they hope to recruit but the country is

not rallying but laughing. Why do you think there are people all encouraged by this? Is that based on something? I see people saying 'come join us' for two weeks and not getting any takers. The actual events seem to demonstrate that very few people have any interest in joining them. They thew a party. No one came. That should inform your views a bit.

[phantom power]

22. But they *are* recrutiing sympathizers

They are, in fact, recruiting sympathizers:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7542947

And they are also going to start some more armed occupations:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1317764

I don't understand the competing theory. What demographic would see those yahoos get arrested, and think "Now I'm going to join them because freeeeeedommm!" ? Anybody who would be outraged over their arrest is already a sympathizer.

[HuckleB]

9. If they're still there in March, birders will also be there in numbers.

Something will have to happen by then.

[wordpix]

11. Imo, removing them now is not too soon

Yes they are hanging themselves but they are denying US use of our own land for birdwatcing, hiking or whatever. How long do we let this go on? If too long, they're ...the so called "militia "... likely to create an incident to draw the feds in, like shoot someone.

Why not cut off power to the refuge bldgs? That would make them leave in a hurry. Is it due to potential broken pipes and toilet mess these scum will leave behind?

[Bluenorthwest]

13. The fact that this is a historic site with a museum collection housed there does mean avoiding

damage is a worthy goal. Also power systems in rural areas are built to get power to people and not designed to cut power off from this bit or that bit. This is a county the size of Maryland with just 7,000 people. It's not Manhattan. The refuge itself is larger than the city of Chicago.

[Cyrano]

14. Sounds like you know this area well, Bluenorthwest

And preserving a historic site and a museum collection are definitely worthy goals.

Right now, the government is showing the patience that is needed. And I'm glad those in charge understand that.

[L. Coyote]

17. Sovereign Citizens - A Growing Domestic Threat to Law Enforcement

Sovereign Citizens - A Growing Domestic Threat to Law Enforcement
By the FBI’s Counterterrorism Analysis Section

... a closer look at sovereign citizens’ more severe crimes, from financial scams to impersonating or threatening law enforcement officials, gives reason for concern. If someone challenges (e.g., a standard traffic stop for false license plates) their ideology, the behavior of these sovereign-citizen extremists quickly can escalate to violence. Since 2000, lone-offender sovereign-citizen extremists have killed six law enforcement officers. In 2010, two Arkansas police officers stopped sovereign-citizen extremists Jerry Kane and his 16-year-old son Joseph during a routine traffic stop on Interstate 40. Joseph Kane jumped out of the vehicle and opened fire with an AK-47 assault rifle, killing both officers.

The sovereign-citizen threat likely will grow as the nationwide movement is fueled by the Internet, the economic downturn, and seminars held across the country that spread their ideology and show people how they can tap into funds and eliminate debt through fraudulent methods. As sovereign citizens’ numbers grow, so do the chances of contact with law enforcement and, thus, the risks that incidents will end in violence. Law enforcement and judicial officials must understand the sovereign-citizen movement, be able to identify indicators, and know how to protect themselves from the group’s threatening tactics.

The FBI considers sovereign-citizen extremists as comprising a domestic terrorist movement ........

[Cyrano]

20. Thank's Coyote

Here's more on Sovereign Citizens from the Southern Poverty Law Center web site.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement

[Vinca]

25. A law should be passed mandating sovereign citizens be expelled from the country.

If they don't want to claim American citizenship and abide by our laws, then they're here illegally and should be deported. I'm thinking Somalia would be a suitable spot for them.

[Wellstone ruled]

19. Next flash point for these so called Patriots will

be in St George,Utah in early February when a group of State and County Republica,n Politicians hold a open house citizen forum at the Dixie Center. Leading topic,returning BLM protected land to the Washington County and the City of St George. The land in question is the Southern Utah Desert Tortoise Wild life Protective and Management Preserve. The City of St George wants to build a four lane road across this preserve. Couple of things one needs to know about the players. Bob Bishop Congressman,Chairman of the House Committee that oversees Federal Lands,Jason Chavezzt Congressman and Chairman of the House Committee that oversees Investigations,Commissioners from Iron County,Kane County and of course Washington County and of course the St George City Counsel Members as well as the Chamber of Commerce and the Southern Utah Realtor Board.

If anyone has had the opportunity to visit of hike this area,stunning beauty,Red Rock Mesa,early spring one can see the turtles out and about and the same in late fall,and you know damn well the Builders want access to this area to build multi million dollar homes. This has been the little hidden story for many years and when Mr. Obama declared millions of acres as National Protected Lands in Utah,this group went nuts and are looking for a stick to jam in his eye.

[longship]

27. St. George is near Zion National Park.

I hope that isn't their target.

[Wellstone ruled]

28. Zion is about 30 miles east.

Noticed the St George City Council has scheduled fact finding secession to this weeks agenda. Most of their City Council are Real Estate Brokers Agents or Builders. These people want 295 K acres out of the 395k present Preserve. This is going to be the test case for the Republican Party and Mr. Obama and the Federal Lands Carve out for Private Interests.

[Jim Lane]

30. Interesting Freudian slip in your post

"Noticed the St George City Council has scheduled fact finding secession to this weeks agenda."

Yeah, I'll bet a lot of them would be in favor of secession if they thought they could get away with it.

[Wellstone ruled]

31. That is right

Check out the Spectrum News St George,Utah. Yes this City will do things like this form time to time. It is a Theocracy.

[Initech]

23. They allow themselves to look like assholes.

[Warpy]

29. I still say if they'd blocked tobacco from getting in to those goons, they'd be gone already

Maybe they'll start picking them off one by one as they go into the Burns no-tell motel for a night of warm sleep in a real bed with a hot shower to use.

The Feds seem happy to let them freeze their damned fool asses off for the duration. The locals know they're completely destroying one of the few tourist attractions the town had, drawing birders and hikers who'd spend money in town. The locals might be the ones to confront them en masse to try to kick them out.

[Rex]

32. Feds are not allowing anything, the thugs are getting away with criminal activity.

It really is just that easy to see. And now they are spreading to Utah...great, I guess actually putting up a roadblock would be too much for LEOs.

ANd all this bullshit about Waco or Ruby Ridge, when cops are militant playing wanna be soldiers...oh wait, not so now that they can't bully around an unarmed black teen.

I swear this country is as racist and authoritarian as it gets. Good to know how many now admit that laws are conditional, no more bullshit from them ever.