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Sun Jan 17, 2016, 05:35 AM

 

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This message was self-deleted by its author (silvershadow) on Thu Apr 21, 2016, 03:58 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
silvershadow Jan 2016 OP
RandiFan1290 Jan 2016 #1
LuvNewcastle Jan 2016 #5
hifiguy Jan 2016 #28
Bradical79 Jan 2016 #2
RandiFan1290 Jan 2016 #4
Bradical79 Jan 2016 #10
mountain grammy Jan 2016 #15
merrily Jan 2016 #6
marble falls Jan 2016 #8
merrily Jan 2016 #9
marble falls Jan 2016 #13
mountain grammy Jan 2016 #17
marble falls Jan 2016 #24
merrily Jan 2016 #18
marble falls Jan 2016 #21
marble falls Jan 2016 #16
merrily Jan 2016 #19
marble falls Jan 2016 #22
hifiguy Jan 2016 #29
NeoGreen Jan 2016 #3
Ford_Prefect Jan 2016 #7
Katashi_itto Jan 2016 #11
silvershadow Jan 2016 #25
Bradical79 Jan 2016 #12
ms liberty Jan 2016 #14
silvershadow Jan 2016 #26
mountain grammy Jan 2016 #20
ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2016 #23
silvershadow Jan 2016 #27

Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:05 AM

1. Here's a bit more

Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception


http://www.alternet.org/story/15935/leo_strauss%27_philosophy_of_deception

...this regime of secrecy, deception and propaganda is an essential feature of the neoconservative political philosophy that now drives the leadership of both major political parties. Leo Strauss, the intellectual godfather of the neocons, was a refugee from 1930s Germany who believed that any genuine effort to achieve “government of the people, by the people, for the people” was doomed to end as the Weimar Republic did in Germany with the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. Strauss had a very dark Hobbesian view of human nature, which he justified with “secret” meanings he claimed were hidden in the works of Plato, Nietzsche and all philosophers. Strauss did not believe that the general public could handle the truth as he saw it, so that any system in which the public held real power would surely end in barbarism.

The Straussian solution to this imaginary problem is a system of “managed democracy,” in which a privileged high priesthood or oligarchy monopolizes real power as it oversees a superficial structure of democracy and promotes patriotic and religious myths to ensure the loyalty of the public and the cohesion of society. Political scientist Sheldon Wolin has dubbed this “inverted totalitarianism.” Because it is less openly offensive than “classical totalitarianism,” the inverted form may be more sustainable and therefore more successful in achieving a total concentration of wealth and power, paradoxically making it more insidious and dangerous than the classical totalitarianism the Straussians claim to be saving us from.

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:33 AM

5. I like to bring up Strauss

when some people talk about the Mideast. A lot of Americans say that strong leaders work better in the Mideast because the people there are ignorant and can't handle democracy. Well I guess Americans aren't able to handle democracy either. More Americans are becoming aware now, which is why people are so desperate for change. I'm not an optimist by nature, so all I can do is hope we don't have any accidents this year.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 06:45 PM

28. Strauss was quite a piece of work.

 

A Jewish scholar who fled the Nazis, then spent the rest of his life formulating a Machiavellian political philosophy which was in many ways Nazism with the anti-Semitism removed.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:16 AM

2. Results of jury service 2-5

 

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is tin-foil hat, Alex Jones, conspiracy nut nonsense. Please hide this OP.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:11 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Looks fine to me. I'm not seeing the tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff the alerter is claiming. If it is, the alerter really should better explain what's so objectionable to two straight forward Wikipedia links as it doesn't seem obvious.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Certainly no worse than I see daily on DU - which is NO compliment. I personally will trash the thread.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think so. Neoconservatives and PNAC are real and they have a real agenda that has played out on the world stage with the invasion of Iraq in 2003. They have said that they'd like to do more of that kind of thing, and that is verifiable at their own web pages if you care to look into it further.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Bradical79 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:30 AM

4.  

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:07 AM

10. Sad thing is, it was kind of close :-P

 

One of the leave it alone people still seemed a bit upset. Could have been 3-4, lol. I was juror #2 I think and it confused the hell out of me first thing this morning. Hit a bit close to home for a couple people I guess

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Response to Bradical79 (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:36 AM

15. Yes, sad to me too..

the alert, for one, and two votes for censor.

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Response to Bradical79 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:34 AM

6. Was the alerter hoping for a stacked jury?

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Response to merrily (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:57 AM

8. How does one arrange a stacked jury?

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Response to marble falls (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:59 AM

9. Timing, for one thing. Certain hours of the day and night seem to work better for Hillary supporters

than for Bernie supporters, and vice versa. I understand refreshing your browser a lot helps. Not posting on a thread increases your chances. And we know from screen caps that Hillary supporters work together on such things. If Bernie supporters work together around alerts and the like, no one has clued me in.

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Response to merrily (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:28 AM

13. I am pro Bernie, and on juries almost daily. I see a LOT of lame alerts on ...

Bernie supporters and quite a few on Hillary supporters. The vast majority fail 2-5, 1-6, 0-7.

Other juries that I see that get it wrong, usually get it wrong because they judge the comment without looking at the thread.

I've read in the last several weeks that Bernie supporters are leaving here and a lot of the ones that are staying will not contribute and will not participate in juries. All three actions are a mistake. I do all three and I participate in MIRT whenever I can.

What I notice about juries and alerts is the most of them occur after midnight and before eight. I believe this is when the oddballs lurk - alert and jury. This is also the time a majority of MIs get MIRTed. But to be fair - both Hillary and Bernie posts get trolled (Bernie 2:1 or 3:1 over Hillary).

I've never seen any screen caps of Hillary supporters conniving to dump Bernie supporters though I do see a lot Hillary supporters push the rules to troll Bernie supporters to go over the line.


My general sense is that among the rank and file of DUers, Bernie supporters are at least the simple majority (I suspect a vaster majority) and that the DU "in-crowd" is maybe 75% for Hillary.

As a Bernie supporter and a DU supporter I am staying and I am participating as much as I can. I stay on juries to help offset any sort of jury rigging there can be against Bernistas. But I will zot a Bernie supporter just as quickly - for example: using the 'c' word on Hillary, which has happened here more than once.

We have a tough election ahead. Its about more than Hillary and Bernie: its about the clown car and who gets to nominate SCOTUS seats and its about an out of whack Congress. We'd better start acting better than the Teapublicans.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:40 AM

17. Me too! Well said.

I'm staying with my Bernie logo until they drag it from my cold dead hands......

But, in the meantime, I'm also enjoying Jackpine Radicals.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 11:02 AM

24. Always look forward to your posts, too!

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Response to marble falls (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:40 AM

18. It's not who gets alerted on during certain hours. It's how the jury comes out during certain hours.

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Response to merrily (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 10:42 AM

21. There's more crazies out at night, no doubt. But there's a lot of rational night owls, too.

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Response to merrily (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:36 AM

16. btw, here's todays jury, I'm #7.....

On Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:48 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Nah they are still to dang loud and obnoxious at least the ones still hanging out here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1018105

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

rwnj?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:59 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter: I don't see your point. You need to describe what's offensive about the post, not comment about the person who posted.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: stone.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: He's alerted because he disagrees with the OP? Weak tea alert. First jury call in three days and its for one of the lamest alerts ever. Put it in the dumb alert pile.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:43 AM

19. Thanks. I don't even know what the alerter's comments mean. Sometimes, they don't even bother with a

comment. It's weird.

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Response to merrily (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 10:47 AM

22. That little "code" I think is a bell call to the alerter's coterie. Its the sort of thing....

that makes me think it is possible that there is some gaming of the juries. But I don't think its systematic. Like the way they got Manny booted. That was dirty pool. And it was all Hillary supporters. At least one of them got some time out, and he's dialed back his posting quite a lot since. I believe he's in fear of reciprocal treatment.

Check your PM inbox.

rwnj = right wing nut job.

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Response to Bradical79 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 06:46 PM

29. WORST ALERT

 

EVAH!

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:21 AM

3. k/r

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:35 AM

7. Neo-liberals have played their role as bookend to the establishment and been well rewarded for it.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:10 AM

11. You forgot "third way" in that list

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 06:36 PM

25. Indeed I did. Thank you. It was a super-quick post as it hit my mind last night.

 

There sure seem to be a lot of folk that think the world works in a way it just doesn't. Third way certainly helps them along, now don't they? Sad.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:24 AM

12. Thanks for the educational links!

 

Since the alert drew my attention to the thread, I've dug a bit deeper into those links. I had no idea about the neocons starting out as right wing socialists (though I'm not sure what that means exactly... need to do more reading). It seems like an oddly complex evolution, and probably why I've never been a big fan of the one dimensional left-right scale.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:35 AM

14. Know your BFEE, as we used to say...

I can't believe someone alerted on this. It must be someone who was not here prior to 2008. I think all of us from the * years know the importance of this information. Thanks for reposting - maybe some newer DU'ers will learn something? K&R

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Response to ms liberty (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 06:39 PM

26. Thank you. I have been here since day one.

 

(though I had to change accounts a few years in and start over, by Skinner's help). This place sure has changed, over and over again, though the years. It always frustrates me when info like this that was pretty common knowledge leaves the general awareness of our group. When we stray too far, it's time to bring it up again. I certainly should add third way to the list.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:49 AM

20. K & R

I'll feel better when Bernie has protection. If it was my choice, he'd be traveling with several bodyguards, but that's not Bernie.

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Response to silvershadow (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 11:00 AM

23. They said in '97/'98 they needed a "new Pearl harbor" in order to test new...

 

...weapons systems while having the support of the American people to do so.

Then they stole the White House from President Gore and they got their "new Pearl harbor" 8 months after taking office.

But nobody wants to remember that. Some of us will never forget.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 06:41 PM

27. I will never forget, but I sure have lost a lot of real-life friends over my views.

 

Personally, I choose to live in reality. No matter how unsettled the truth may be. That's just me.

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