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Sat Jan 16, 2016, 07:56 AM

You guys do realise that not all the Cologne attackers were refugees? Or from Syria?

Stories suggest that many of the attackers are from Tunisia or Morocco. Some numbers of these men appear not to be refugees at all but rather economic migrants.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-assaults-20160106-story.html


And here:

http://rudaw.net/english/world/16012016

But if asylum seekers have no nationality or passport, how can you deport them?

The question is where the person comes from, and what agreements we have with the country the person comes from. For instance, with North African countries like Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco we do have agreements. And most of the accused have come from these countries.


Repeatedly in European media the attackers have been described as "North African", not "Syrian".

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Reply You guys do realise that not all the Cologne attackers were refugees? Or from Syria? (Original post)
sibelian Jan 2016 OP
ellenrr Jan 2016 #1
scarletwoman Jan 2016 #2
malaise Jan 2016 #8
scarletwoman Jan 2016 #13
EL34x4 Jan 2016 #15
cwydro Jan 2016 #27
Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2016 #33
treestar Jan 2016 #18
hifiguy Jan 2016 #22
cwydro Jan 2016 #28
smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #20
sibelian Jan 2016 #3
tritsofme Jan 2016 #6
EL34x4 Jan 2016 #7
KittyWampus Jan 2016 #9
Orrex Jan 2016 #12
Squinch Jan 2016 #14
cigsandcoffee Jan 2016 #16
prayin4rain Jan 2016 #24
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #17
Ms. Yertle Jan 2016 #19
smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #21
hifiguy Jan 2016 #23
ellenrr Jan 2016 #25
tkmorris Jan 2016 #29
The2ndWheel Jan 2016 #31
Blue_Tires Jan 2016 #32
hughee99 Jan 2016 #36
GummyBearz Jan 2016 #38
Bradical79 Jan 2016 #4
sibelian Jan 2016 #5
malaise Jan 2016 #11
KittyWampus Jan 2016 #10
Democat Jan 2016 #26
sibelian Jan 2016 #37
snooper2 Jan 2016 #30
sibelian Jan 2016 #40
mwrguy Jan 2016 #34
LanternWaste Jan 2016 #35
Kurska Jan 2016 #39
sibelian Jan 2016 #41

Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 08:41 AM

1. here is an article making the point that "it is the idea of sexual assault perpetrated

upon German women by foreigners that has been the epicentre of the political explosion."

Since 1 January, there have been calls to close the borders, end all German intake of refugees and asylum seekers, and immediately deport any non-German found guilty of sexual harassment. These calls have been echoed across the political spectrum. In fact, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find a politician who has not made some sort of public statement on ‘Cologne’, including the German Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose portfolio does not usually include sexual assault and petty theft on the streets of Cologne.

Not even the Paris terror attacks of November last year appear to have had such a destabilising effect on Germany’s so-called ‘open door’ policy on immigration and asylum – but perhaps that is because the mass killings in Paris didn’t involve questions of moral and cultural standards around sexuality and gender relations.

By now, it is well-known how ferociously the events have been seized upon by conservatives and radical right-wing groups opposed to immigration. The language of the public debate has been predictably filled with calls to defend ‘our women’ from the ‘uncivilised’ hordes of medieval barbarians from the Middle East. Vigilante groups have formed. One announced on Facebook that it would be organising ‘patrols’ around Cologne with the intention of ‘cleaning up’.


https://overland.org.au/2016/01/from-cronulla-to-cologne-its-the-same-rhetoric/

What if right-wing PAID the attackers to do what they did?
This is plausible- given what a boon the attacks are for the anti-refugee movement.

and it is more logical assumption to me, than that asylum seeks are going to cause trouble, when they do not want to be picked up by law enforcement..

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 08:56 AM

2. "What if right-wing PAID the attackers to do what they did?" Utter bullshit!!!

Utter, disgusting, despicable bullshit!

The attacks were perpetrated by males raised in a culture that totally devalues and systematically oppresses women. They didn't have to be "paid" to behave as they did, they were brought up that way from birth.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:22 AM

8. What if both are true?

I put nothing past the right wing on this planet. Fascists are fascists.

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Response to malaise (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:57 AM

13. No. I'm sorry, I absolutely reject such a totally nonsensical idea.

The men who attacked women on NYE were motivated solely by their own reasons.

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Response to malaise (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 10:24 AM

15. Ridiculous.

 

There is not one iota of evidence whatsoever that the right wing paid migrants to commit mass sexual assault. Not a single individual, while questioned by the police, has so much as alluded to this.

This is beneath even the most moronic of conspiracy theories.

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Response to malaise (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:03 AM

27. Sorry, that's just crazy.

And actually, your conspiracy theory makes them even worse. What kind of cretin would take money to attack a woman?

Listen to yourself here.
This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to malaise (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:42 AM

33. I wouldn't put it past hacks to overlook sexual assault in the name of rank partisanship.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 10:42 AM

18. there are a lot of Muslim immigrants here

and there has been no such waive of attacks.

I don't think most Muslim raised males are out there attacking women, or that they are taught it is OK. There are many very educated Muslims, and they have brains. I seriously doubt Muslims raise their sons to commit sexual assault.

A few of the Muslim countries are oppressive to women, but that doesn't mean they are "raised" to commit sexual assault.

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Response to treestar (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 03:40 PM

22. A FEW?

 

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:04 AM

28. Thank you.

That pic says it all lol!
This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 03:24 PM

20. +1000

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:03 AM

3. I think it's time to stop looking for reasons to blame the right for everything.


The cultures these males come from are, by Western standards, very right wing anyway, particularly with regards to the rights of women.

"it is well-known how ferociously the events have been seized upon by conservatives" - it is NOT just "conservatives" who are objecting to the consequences of European uncontrolled immigration policies, ellenrr, the left in Europe is not particularly impressed either, it's only the Establishment Left, politicians, academics and journalists, mainly, that see opposition to the influx of millions of people from a revoltingly misogynistic culture as a right wing phenomenon.

I don't think we need conspiracy theories.

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:18 AM

6. Completely delusional.

And it is utterly disgusting that you excuse the criminal behavior of these men in favor of a wild conspiracy theory.

Come back to reality, please.

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:21 AM

7. "This is plausible"

 

No, this is not plausible.

This is completely idiotic.

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:24 AM

9. It's going to be very hard not to engage in a personal attack… but

 

WTF?!

"What if right-wing PAID the attackers to do what they did?
This is plausible- given what a boon the attacks are for the anti-refugee movement."

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:29 AM

12. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Last edited Sat Jan 16, 2016, 01:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Mail Message
On Sat Jan 16, 2016, 07:26 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

here is an article making the point that "it is the idea of sexual assault perpetrated
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7534942

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This conspiracy theory defines "over-the-top". Not only does this poster think that right-wingers paying the THOUSANDS of assailants is plausible, Poster goes on to declare it's the "more logical assumption to me".

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jan 16, 2016, 07:34 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Disgusting and over the top.Hide.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The excuses being made for the rapists are getting disgusting
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yes, this is a crazy conspiracy theory that makes the poster look ridiculous, but that in itself doesn't strike me as cause to hide it. Let it stand and be destroyed by reasonable DUers who don't subscribe to tinfoil nuttery.

Leave it.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think CT posts are "over the top." Argue and expose the flaws in "Who benefits?" arguments and CT theories.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:59 AM

14. What if MARTIANS paid them? It could happen. What do we do then?

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 10:38 AM

16. If you can be enticed by money to sexually assault someone...

...I don't think that makes you any less despicable than just coming up with the idea on your own.

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Response to cigsandcoffee (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 04:05 PM

24. True. Assualting for money almost seems worse than assualting for sincerely held beliefs. n/t

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 10:41 AM

17. <-- Creative Speculation is thataway.

 

We already have a group for nonsensical conspiracy theories, m'kay...?

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 12:01 PM

19. Ridiculous!

Men raised in a misogynistic culture, where victims of rape can be stoned to death, where women are mere chattel, would not have to be paid to grope women! To think that they are all willing to be on their best behavior--by western standards--is naive, at the very least.

What they are doing is trying to import their culture into the West--and it's working. Whose behavior is expected to be altered??? The women, of course. Women are lectured about how to avoid being sexually assaulted!! They are being told how to behave in public, what to wear, etc.

That anyone would try to excuse this behavior by blaming the "right wing" is utterly revolting.

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Response to Ms. Yertle (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 03:25 PM

21. God, this makes me so effing angry.

I could just spit nails over it.

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Response to Ms. Yertle (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 03:41 PM

23. All of this a thousand times over.

 

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:57 AM

25. some of you are very naive...

I guess you also don't believe that the Koch brothers (and others) paid people to disrupt the meetings in 2010 which were held by congresspeople in their districts to discuss health care policy.
I guess you don't believe that pharmaceutical companies bus people to meetings by the FDA so they can speak out for certain drugs, out of profit not out of ideology.

both of these are easily confirmed and documented.

you naive people ought to read more and educate yourselves.

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:15 AM

29. Wow, seriously?

You just said that those who find your conspiracy theory absurd are naive, they don't read enough, and are uneducated.

I humbly submit to you that you might try being less certain that you are right, and try to be open to others points of view. There is an enormous gaping chasm between the Koch brothers shenanigans and what you proposed in your post.

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:26 AM

31. Does it hurt that much to think that everything doesn't fit into

a single "left wing" narrative? Bad shit happens in the world, and it's not all funded by the right. Yes, some people will take advantage of even the most hospitable hospitality. Just because you're running away from war, or looking for work, none of that necessarily means that you're a good or bad person. You can still do bad things, and good things, all of your own accord. Human beings are complex like that.

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:37 AM

32. Congrats... We got the good old 'false flag' meme in the first post!

has to be a record...

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:31 PM

36. I know you're getting some flack for this, but I'd like to applaud your courage.

A lot of people wouldn't have had the courage to see this story, figure out a way to blame their political opponents for it without actually disputing the contents of the story, and then type those thoughts out to a public forum.

People need to know that whenever the information doesn't fall in line with what they want to believe, it's likely because their opponents set the whole thing up.

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Response to ellenrr (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:53 AM

38. Uh, no... and you might need one of these

 

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:07 AM

4. Yes

 

I thought the articles (that I read) were pretty clear.

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Response to Bradical79 (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:11 AM

5. OK


I saw unchallenged comments somewhere that seemed to think this was an "oppress Syrians" issue.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:28 AM

11. It is quite possible - we don't know and

I don't know if we'll find evidence for now but truth will out one way ot the other
I fail to understand how people ignore history over and over.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 09:28 AM

10. You do realize that only a tiny fraction of the perpetrators have been apprehended?

 

And of those caught so far, more than half were refugees?

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:00 AM

26. Men who treat women like this are the right wing

Surprising that so many on DU would make excuses for clearly right wing behavior.

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Response to Democat (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:43 AM

37. Exactly.


It's bizarre

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:19 AM

30. Yeah, so yes, we know fundie assholes come from many different countries, point?

 

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:22 AM

40. You made it yourself.


Many thanks.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:09 PM

34. K&R

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:13 PM

35. Looking for the one common denominator in sexual assaults against women...

There seems to be a lot of creepy guys worldwide sexually assaulting women. Seems many of them are white and Christian, others Muslim and brown, yet others undetermined and undetermined. Yet the vast majority being male.

Which seems the one common denominator in sexual assaults against women...

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:55 AM

39. Over half were

But yes, it is a generally broken system that lets in "economic Migrants" claiming to be "war refugees" and apparently has no actual ability to distinguish between the two.

Your point?

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Response to Kurska (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:23 AM

41. The one you just made.


Many thanks.

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