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Mon Jan 11, 2016, 05:38 AM

Saudi Arabia fatally bombs ANOTHER Yemeni hospital + 18 Billion in US weapons + Bowie

Last edited Mon Jan 11, 2016, 08:50 AM - Edit history (9)

NOTE: I know this is probably going to be a depressing and/or angering read. I post these sorts of articles because I still genuinely believe that we CAN change our behaviour and fix our mistakes, but ONLY if we're informed and make decisions with our eyes wide open.

If you could share this, or links to any of the stories I've referenced, to help spread the word, that'd be great... We are - our country is - involved in war crimes right now - and I don't say that lightly. These decisions are the type that blow back and kill Americans. Protect yourself and future generations of Americans by standing up and demanding that your tax dollars no longer fund atrocities. You can close this page and forget what we're doing in Yemen, but the 2M children we're helping starve to death there do not have that option.

MSF hospital bombing amid Saudi-led airstrikes in Yemen prompts outrage over ‘worrying pattern of attacks to essential medical services’

The projectile dropped on the Shiara Hospital is thought to be the latest in a series attack on health facilities directly managed or supported by MSF

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/msf-hospital-bombing-saudi-led-airstrikes-yemen-outrage-worrying-pattern-attacks-essential-medical-a6804796.html

"It is the latest bombing in what is thought to be a series of attacks on a health facility directly managed or supported by MSF in the past three months.

In October, Haydan hospital was destroyed in an air-strike by the Saudi-led coalition (SLC). A mobile clinic in Taiz, south west Yemen, was also hit in December, which wounded nine people, where one later died."

Of course - as awful as it sounds - dying instantly in a bomb attack might be a welcome relief if you've been staving for months on end:

Yemen conflict has pushed six million people to the brink of starvation, Oxfam warns

That includes two million children

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/war-in-yemen-has-pushed-six-million-to-the-brink-of-starvation-oxfam-warns-10420136.html

And what horrible dictator is staving 2 million children? Why, it's not a dictator at all, it's the US and UK, helping their wonderful ally Saudi Arabia.

Aid agencies say embargo imposed by US and UK-backed Arab coalition has had dramatic effect, with almost 80% of population in urgent need of food, water and medical supplies

"Despite western and UN entreaties, Riyadh has also failed to disburse any of the $274m it promised in funding for humanitarian relief. According to UN estimates due to be released next week 78% of the population is in need of emergency aid, an increase of 4 million over the past three months."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/05/saudi-led-naval-blockade-worsens-yemen-humanitarian-disaster

"Fuel and vital medical supplies will run out in a matter of weeks in some of the hardest-hit areas of Yemen, aid agencies have warned, amid a blockade by the Saudi-led coalition that has been conducting bombing raids over the country for months.

Since the coalition – which has been conducting airstrikes across the country since March in an attempt to oust Houthi rebel forces – imposed a “de facto” blockade, very few vessels have made their way to the country. Even before the conflict, Yemen depended on imports for 70 per cent of its fuel and 100 per cent of its medicine.

“At the moment we only have enough fuel in the north and centre of the country for the next six weeks,” Mark Kaye, the acting director of advocacy for Save the Children in Yemen, told The Independent on Sunday. As well as providing electricity for households and petrol for vehicles, “that means no fuel for hospitals, who rely on generators for their work”.

In recent days, the main paediatric hospital in the north was forced to close because of damage from the strikes and a lack of fuel and medical resources. The World Health Organisation warned this week that the country’s biggest blood-transfusion centre in the capital, Sanaa, could also be forced to close in as little as two weeks. Meanwhile, near-daily airstrikes continue to cause injuries among the civilian population."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-blockade-starves-yemen-of-vital-supplies-as-bombing-raids-continue-10509460.html

In the middle of all of this, with the coalition bombing civilians and hospitals and starving the population - collective punishment the war crimes prosecutors call it - what has the US done to help stem the violence and help restore peace?

Sell them another 18B in weapons, that's what.

U.S. approves $1.29 billion sale of smart bombs to Saudi Arabia

The proposed sale includes 22,000 smart and general purpose bombs, including 1,000 GBU-10 Paveway II Laser Guided Bombs, and over 5,000 Joint Direct Attack Munitions kits to turn older bombs into precision-guided weapons using GPS signals.

The weapons are made by Boeing Co (BA.N) and Raytheon Co (RTN.N), but the agency told lawmakers the prime contractors would be selected in a competition.

Saudi Arabia, one of the largest buyers of U.S. weapons, was approved in September for a potential second sale of 600 Patriot-PAC-3 air defense missiles made by Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N), a deal valued at $5.4 billion.

Last month, the U.S. government also approved the sale to Saudi Arabia of up to four Littoral Combat Ships made by Lockheed for $11.25 billion.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-usa-arms-idUSKCN0T51NC20151116

So while the US sees SA using US made and provided weapons to attack hospitals and civilians populations, it sells it 18 BILLION more in weapons?

They must just need to top up after the 60 BILLION in weapons we sold them 6 years ago.


US secures record $60 billion arms sale to Saudi Arabia


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8000747/US-secures-record-60-billion-arms-sale-to-Saudi-Arabia.html

And when the international community notices?

Last week, a U.N. panel of experts responsible for tracking human rights violations and enforcing sanctions against individuals who threaten Yemen’s peace concluded that the Saudi-led coalition, Houthi insurgents, and fighters loyal to Yemen’s former president, Ali Abdullah Saleh, all have routinely violated civilians’ human rights, according to a copy of a confidential report documenting the panel’s findings.

The panel singled out the coalition for committing “grave violations” of civilians’ rights, citing reports of indiscriminate airstrikes, as well as the targeting of markets, aid warehouses, and a camp for displaced Yemenis. It also raised concern that coalition forces may have intentionally obstructed the delivery of humanitarian aid to needy civilians.

"Behind closed doors, the United States has sought to limit international scrutiny of rights abuses in Yemen. Last Friday, the United States blocked a proposal in a U.N. Security Council sanctions committee to have the committee’s chair, Lithuanian U.N. Ambassador Raimonda Murmokaite, approach “all relevant parties to the conflict and stress their responsibility to respect and uphold international humanitarian law and human rights law,” according to Security Council diplomats. The committee also recommended that Murmokaite ask the key players to cooperate with its investigations into potential human rights abuses in Yemen."

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/15/u-s-support-for-saudi-strikes-in-yemen-raises-war-crime-concerns/

And Bowie - as every thread should have some Bowie today.

31 replies, 2295 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Saudi Arabia fatally bombs ANOTHER Yemeni hospital + 18 Billion in US weapons + Bowie (Original post)
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 OP
tecelote Jan 2016 #1
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #4
oberliner Jan 2016 #24
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #26
oberliner Jan 2016 #27
JonathanRackham Jan 2016 #2
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #3
LuvNewcastle Jan 2016 #5
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #7
malaise Jan 2016 #6
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #8
malaise Jan 2016 #9
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #10
RandiFan1290 Jan 2016 #11
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #12
Liberal_in_LA Jan 2016 #13
Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #14
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #15
Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #18
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #20
Martin Eden Jan 2016 #16
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #17
Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #19
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #21
Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #22
Duppers Jan 2016 #23
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #25
polly7 Jan 2016 #28
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #30
Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #29
EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #31

Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 05:53 AM

1. It seems we no longer care.

This turns my stomach yet we have Republicans and our inevitable Democrat front runner pushing regime change and more war.

When are Americans going to say Stop!?

Thanks for posting.

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Response to tecelote (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 06:17 AM

4. we haven't cared since the 1950s

Seriously...

It's just that now Americans have easier access to this information..

But we've been killing civilians on masse - or knowingly helping those that are - for decades.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 03:55 PM

24. Did we care in the 1940s when we bombed Japan with nuclear weapons?

Wasn't that the highest number of civilians that the US has ever killed before or since?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #24)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 07:41 PM

26. well...

I have to draw a line in a place that most people I talk to can be guaranteed to not go mental over...

I'd rather have productive discussions than arguments, and firebombing Tokyo .. or Dresden... well, even now many Americans assume these were well deserved punishments...

And honestly, I've never hd good luck convincing people otherwise...

But why stop at the 40s?

Between 1900 and 1940 something like 65,000 people - American citizens - were forcibly sterilized by states and the federal government. Thousands of poor and minority women were sterilized secretly in the south as well.

The government ROUTINELY injected unsuspecting children and prisoners and poor people with all sorts of diseases for decades before that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States#Early_20th_century

Were were also running medical tests on prisoners in other countries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment

Bear in mind that happened from 1946-48, AFTER the US knew about German medical testing... that didn't stop us from doing it in Guatemala and other places around the world.

And this all goes on and on back through time, to slavery, to the Native Americans genocide... heck, Christopher Columbus, as everyone now knows, was a little Hitler, and yet we all worship him as kids growing up...

sigh

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 09:31 PM

27. That was kind of my point

Americans have never really been particularly troubled by killing civilians. In fact, I would argue that it is more of a concern today than it ever has been in the past (in spite of it continuing currently).

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 06:05 AM

2. Can't arms sales be stopped with executive order?

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Response to JonathanRackham (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 06:15 AM

3. you got it all wrong

"The sales reflect President Barack Obama's pledge to bolster U.S. military support for Saudi Arabia and other Sunni allies in the Gulf Cooperation Council after his administration brokered a nuclear deal with their Shiite rival Iran."

http://www.voanews.com/content/sources-say-us-approves-sale-of-smart-bombs-to-saudi-arabia/3060071.html

Obama, Saudi King Pledge to Strengthen Ties

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-saudi-king-pledge-to-strengthen-ties-1441386435

U.S. Support for Saudi Strikes in Yemen Raises War Crime Concerns

Obama didn’t even mention Yemen in his U.N. speech, which faulted Russia’s military intervention in Syria on behalf of a government that stands accused of killing the vast majority of the more than 200,000 people who have died in Syria’s civil war.

U.S. support for a military campaign that is inflicting extreme hardship on civilians in one of the Mideast’s poorest countries provides an awkward counterpoint to the Obama administration’s stated commitment to stand up for the region’s oppressed people. At the dawn of the Arab Spring, Obama vowed to oppose “the use of violence and repression against the people of the region” and to support “the legitimate aspirations of ordinary people.”

Behind closed doors, the United States has sought to limit international scrutiny of rights abuses in Yemen. Last Friday, the United States blocked a proposal in a U.N. Security Council sanctions committee to have the committee’s chair, Lithuanian U.N. Ambassador Raimonda Murmokaite, approach “all relevant parties to the conflict and stress their responsibility to respect and uphold international humanitarian law and human rights law,” according to Security Council diplomats. The committee also recommended that Murmokaite ask the key players to cooperate with its investigations into potential human rights abuses in Yemen.

The humanitarian crisis in Yemen has received too little attention, and it directly, or indirectly, implicates us,” said Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), who noted that the airstrikes may violate legislation he authored barring the United States from providing security assistance to countries responsible for gross human rights abuses. “The reports of civilian casualties from Saudi air attacks in densely populated areas compel us to ask if these operations, supported by the United States, violate” that law, Leahy told Foreign Policy

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/15/u-s-support-for-saudi-strikes-in-yemen-raises-war-crime-concerns/

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 06:45 AM

5. Our government loves cheap oil and

hates Americans. Why else would they sell 18 billion in weapons to the country who is largely financing terrorism against Americans.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 07:00 AM

7. It's a headscratcher

But it's as old as the relationship with SA itself.

We give them money, they fund wahhabism and kill as many innocent people as it takes to keep their Fairytale Kingdom alive.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 06:48 AM

6. International law and the laws of war have long been

thrown out of the window - the only freedom we in the West now promote is the freedom to kill whoever we choose when and wherever we choose.

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Response to malaise (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 07:01 AM

8. Laws are for the poor

Same as it ever was.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 07:02 AM

9. Laws are for the poor, the weak

and those we terrorize

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Response to malaise (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 07:03 AM

10. Or

Those we want something from...

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 07:08 AM

11. Where is the UN?

I missed the vote allowing the 9/11 attackers to invade Yemen

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 07:18 AM

12. The UN is being blocked by the US

From wiki:

The intervention has received wide-scale criticism and had a dramatical worsening effect on the humanitarian situation, that reached the level of a "humanitarian disaster"[80] or "humanitarian catastrophe".[81][82][83] After the Saudi-led coalition declared the entire Saada Governorate a military target, UN Humanitarian Coordinator for Yemen said, air strikes by the Saudi-led coalition on Saada city in Yemen were in breach of international law.[84][85] On 1 July UN declared for Yemen a “level-three” emergency – the highest UN emergency level – for a period of six months.[86][87] The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights and UK-based charity Action on Armed Violence declared that almost two-thirds of all civilian casualties between 1 January and 31 July 2015 have been a direct result of airstrikes.[88][89] On August 24, the UN special representative of the secretary-general for children and armed conflict said, that the majority (73%) of the hundreds of children killed in Yemen since the escalation of hostilities in late March 2015 were victims of Saudi coalition-led airstrikes.[90][91] Despite widespread criticism of the high civilian death toll, the U.S. State Department approved a $1.29 billion deal in November for more than 19,000 smart bombs to replenish the Saudi air force’s arsenal.[92][93][94][95] Human rights groups repeatedly blamed the Saudi-led military coalition for killing civilians and destroying health centers and other infrastructure with airstrikes.[96] According to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights “a disproportionate amount” of attacks on civilians appeared to be the result of airstrikes carried out by the Saudi-led military coalition forces.[96][97][98][99][100] Human Rights Watch criticized the UN Security Council repeatedly for “remaining almost silent on coalition abuses”.[96][101][102]

The arms embargo on Yemen, which turned into a de facto general blockade implemented by the Saudi-led military coalition and the UN, led to country-wide critical shortages of food and fuel, which were only available for extortionate prices.[103] The de facto blockade left 78% (20 million) of the Yemeni population in urgent need of food, water and medical aid. Aid ships are allowed, but the bulk of commercial shipping, on which the country relies, is blocked.[104] In one occasion, coalition jets prevented an Iranian Red Crescent plane from landing by bombing Sana'a International Airport's (SIA) runway, which blocked aid delivery via air.[105] As of 10 December, more than 2,500,000 people had been internally displaced by the fighting.[106] Many countries evacuated more than 23,000 foreign citizens from Yemen.[107][108][109] More than 168,000 people fled Yemen for Saudi Arabia, Djibouti, Somalia, Ethiopia, Sudan and Oman.[109]

On 21 April, the Saudi-led military coalition announced an end to Operation Decisive Storm, saying the intervention's focus would "shift from military operations to the political process".[110][111][112] The kingdom and its coalition partners said they would be launching political and peace efforts, which they called Operation Restoring Hope (Arabic: عملية إعادة الأمل‎ `Amaliyyat 'I`ādat al-'Amal). However, the coalition did not rule out using force, saying it would respond to threats and prevent Houthi militants from operating within Yemen.[112] Airstrikes and shelling continued under Restoring Hope, including air attacks destroying the main runway at SIA.[113][114] The UNESCO Director-General repeatedly condemned the destructions by air strikes on the UNESCO World Heritage Site Old City of Sana'a and other heavily populated areas.[115][116][117][118] The UN warned in June that the country’s extensive archaeological and historic heritage had been increasingly under threat following a surge in aerial bombing raids in the Old City of Sana'a[119] and added the Old City of Sana’a and Old Walled City of Shibam to the List of World Heritage in Danger in July.[120]

According to Farea Al-Muslim, direct war crimes were committed during the conflict; for example, an IDP camp was hit by a Saudi airstrike, while Houthis sometimes prevented aid workers from giving aid.[338] The UN and human rights groups discussed the possibility that war crimes may have been committed by Saudi Arabia during the air campaign.[339]

HRW wrote that some airstrikes were in apparent violation of the laws of war, such as the March 30 attack on a displaced-persons camp in Mazraq that struck a medical facility and a market. HRW also said that the Houthis had unlawfully deployed forces in densely populated areas and used excessive force against peaceful protesters and journalists. In addition, HRW said that by providing logistical and intelligence assistance to coalition forces, the US may have become a party to the conflict, creating obligations under the laws of war.[340] Other incidents noted by HRW that had been deemed as indiscriminate or disproportionate or "in violation of the laws of war" were: a strike on a dairy factory outside the Red Sea port of Hodaida (31 civilian deaths);[341] a strike that destroyed a humanitarian aid warehouse of the international aid organization Oxfam in Saada;[342] and the coalition’s blockade that kept out fuel.[343] Internationally outlawed cluster bombs were used by the coalition and wounded civilians, based on an HRW report.[344][345][346]

Amnesty International (AI) said that airstrikes hit five densely populated areas (Sa'dah, Sana'a, Hodeidah, Hajjah and Ibb), and "raise concerns about compliance with the rules of international humanitarian law."[347][348] It added that, according to its research, at least 139 people, including at least 97 civilians (of whom 33 were children), were killed during these strikes, and 460 individuals were injured (of whom at least 157 are civilians).[347]

U.N. Humanitarian Coordinator for Yemen, Johannes van der Klaauw, said that coalition airstrikes on Sa'ada city, where many civilians were trapped, were in breach of international humanitarian law, despite calls for civilians to leave the area. Scores of civilians were reportedly killed and thousands forced to flee after the coalition declared the entire governorate a military target, he said.[84][85] Van der Klaauw also said that coalition strikes had targeted schools and hospitals, in breach of international law.[349]

A group of 17 aid agencies condemned the growing intensity of airstrikes in the north on 8 and 9 May 2015. Save the Children's Country Director in Yemen, Edward Santiago, said that the "indiscriminate attacks after the dropping of leaflets urging civilians to leave Sa'ada raises concerns about the possible pattern being established in breach of International Humanitarian Law."[350]

On June 30, HRW reported that several airstrikes were in clear violation of international law. The report confirmed 59 (including 14 women and 35 children) civilian deaths in Saada between April 6 and May 11. The report also highlighted attacks on 6 civilian homes as well as five markets that were deliberate attacks.[330]

On October 27, Médecins Sans Frontières hospital in north Yemen was bombed by the Saudi Arabia-led military coalition.[351] Attacks on medical facilities are forbidden under international humanitarian law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian-led_intervention_in_Yemen

So the UN is making noises, but...

"Behind closed doors, the United States has sought to limit international scrutiny of rights abuses in Yemen. Last Friday, the United States blocked a proposal in a U.N. Security Council sanctions committee to have the committee’s chair, Lithuanian U.N. Ambassador Raimonda Murmokaite, approach “all relevant parties to the conflict and stress their responsibility to respect and uphold international humanitarian law and human rights law,” according to Security Council diplomats. The committee also recommended that Murmokaite ask the key players to cooperate with its investigations into potential human rights abuses in Yemen."

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/15/u-s-support-for-saudi-strikes-in-yemen-raises-war-crime-concerns/

The blockade - which the UN is supposedly taking part in - is not really any sort of UN operation.

"On 3 September the United Nations announced it was setting up its own verification method for vessels coming into the country – a process currently run by Saudi Arabia, too slowly many think, with an aim of stopping weapons entering Yemen. However, the UN said that it had not yet secured funding.."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-blockade-starves-yemen-of-vital-supplies-as-bombing-raids-continue-10509460.html

'Commercial cargo ships carrying food, fuel and other vital supplies must be allowed to reach ports in Yemen which is threatened by famine, the UN Security Council said Thursday.

The Saudi-led coalition battling Shiite Huthi rebels in Yemen has imposed maritime controls that UN diplomats have described as a blockade preventing imports from reaching Yemen.

"It's vital that we get commercial ships back in," UN aid chief Stephen O'Brien told reporters.'

http://reliefweb.int/report/yemen/un-pushes-saudi-coalition-allow-ships-yemen

"During the months that followed the aid pledge, the Saudi-led military coalition fighting in Yemen was implicated in a number of bombings that left hundreds of civilians dead. In an August briefing to the Security Council, O'Brien himself said the coalition violated international law when they bombed a major port at Hodeidah, along the Red Sea coast.

Since March, the Saudis have maintained an effective blockade of Yemen, where some 21 million residents are in need of humanitarian assistance. On Monday, O'Brien said the UN had developed a plan for inspections that would commercial cargo to pass through the blockade, but he noted that it still needs $8 million in funding to get off the ground."

https://news.vice.com/article/saudi-arabia-used-the-un-to-brag-about-helping-yemen-while-still-bombing-yemen

So all the UN needs is 8m, and the US, which is supposedly asking SA to let commercial ships come through the blockade - lol - can't help with that?

What's 18 Billion - 8 million?

The truth is that the US is deliberately helping SA stave the population, in the hope that it will end the Houthi rebellion... which is of course a war crime.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 07:22 AM

13. kick

 

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 08:32 AM

14. I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times-- FUCK Saudi Arabia, and fuck the evil assholes

 

in this country who support them with weapons.

Great Bowie song and video.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 08:42 AM

15. ehhh.. be careful

Everyone from both parties pretty much supports them, including Sanders:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/sanders_policy_backing_saudi_intervention_needs_to_change_now_20150827

Plus as far as I know he's never voted against selling arms to Saudi Arabia... and I say this as a contributing supporter of his campaign...

Basically, all of America's politicians support this.

Which is no surprise, when you consider:

Saudi Arabia Continues Hiring Spree of American Lobbyists, Public Relations Experts

https://theintercept.com/2015/10/05/saudi-arabia-continues-hire-politically-connected-american-lobbyists-public-relation-firms/

Still, comparing Bernie to Hillary, well:

Saudi Arabia is in the market for a better reputation in Washington, D.C.

In September alone, foreign lobbying disclosure documents show the Saudi government signing deals with PR powerhouse Edelman and lobbying leviathan the Podesta Group, according to recent disclosures.

Edelman, the largest privately owned public relations agency in the world, is known for helping clients win favorable media coverage on mainstream outlets. The Podesta Group is a lobbying firm founded by Tony Podesta, a major fundraiser for the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 09:10 AM

18. Thanks for that... it's such a horrible disgrace

 

It seems in matters like this, there are no viable political options. I too support Sanders and contribute to him, but sadly, he is a friend of the military-industrial complex. But at least he seems like less of an outright warmonger than HRC.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 09:16 AM

20. Absolutely

We're not allowed real revolutionary options. You know like people that want to stop arming dictators and terrorists. Or people that might tell the truth about our own decades of criminal behaviour at home and abroad.

Heck - most Americans don't even realise the US military secretly and illegally and REPEATEDLY did medical testing on US civilians, on US soil. Or that the US government - for years - sterilized poor and minority American women without their knowledge or consent.

If they don't know that how can we ever hope for them to know what the US was doing in other countries?

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 08:46 AM

16. The Great Satan

I am ashamed to say we are filling that role.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 08:51 AM

17. It's not a new role for us

It dates back, depending on your criteria, for at least decades - many would say centuries...



And that was in the 1980s...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stockwell

The CIA targeted him and bankrupted him... after he wrote a book exposing a lot of really nasty stuff the CIA did in South America, which led to - as he says - millions of civilian deaths.

If you're sceptical about his claims about the Korean War and drugs, don't be:

"In 1949, two of Chiang Kai-shek's defeated generals, Li Wen Huan and Tuan Shi Wen, marched their Third and Fifth Route armies, with families and livestock, across the mountains to northern Burma. Once installed, the peasant soldiers began cultivating the crop they knew best, the opium poppy.

When China entered the Korean War, the CIA had a desperate need for intelligence on that nation. The agency turned to the warlord generals, who agreed to slip some soldiers back into China. In return, the agency offered arms. Officially, the arms were intended to equip the warlords for a return to China. In fact, the Chinese wanted them to repel any attack by the Burmese.

Soon intelligence began to flow to Washington from the area, which became known as the Golden Triangle. So, too, did heroin, en route to Southeast Asia and often to the United States.

If the agency never condoned the traffic, it never tried to stop it, either. The CIA did, however, lobby the Eisenhower administration to prevent the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs, the DEA's predecessor, from establishing monitoring posts in the area to study the traffic. Today, the Golden Triangle accounts for about half the heroin in circulation in the world."

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/03/opinion/03iht-edlarry.html

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #17)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 09:12 AM

19. thanks-- hadn't heard of him but will check that out

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 09:18 AM

21. It's also worth noting

That the US built a lot of dams in Afghanistan. That raised the water table and made the soil perfect for growing poppies.

The President and government were warned by the engineers during the building of the dams. But the government told them to continue which led to the boom of Afghani heroin.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 12:53 PM

22. gee, that sounds like a conspiracy

 

and our government would never do anything intentionally evil, would they?

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 03:51 PM

23. K & R for whole thread

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Response to Duppers (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 07:30 PM

25. thanks!

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 09:33 PM

28. Excellent thread, EdwardBernays. Thanks for posting it. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 12, 2016, 06:04 AM

30. Thank you

For taking the time to read it!

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 10:28 PM

29. Kick

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 12, 2016, 06:05 AM

31. Thanks!

I appreciate that.

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