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Fri Jan 8, 2016, 08:27 AM

Is every child fathered abroad by US servicemen, eligible to be president?

Or does the child have to exit a US citizen woman to become eligible?
Obama's father was foreign (BUT, Obama was born a US citizen because Hawaii is a state)

Cruz' Dad was Cuban..Mom American..& he was born in Canada..

If Cruz' MOTHER had been a Vietnamese woman, impregnated by a US soldier, would he still be eligible?

Canada v Vietnam...just different spots on a map

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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is every child fathered abroad by US servicemen, eligible to be president? (Original post)
SoCalDem Jan 2016 OP
hobbit709 Jan 2016 #1
jberryhill Jan 2016 #2
SoCalDem Jan 2016 #4
jberryhill Jan 2016 #6
SoCalDem Jan 2016 #7
jberryhill Jan 2016 #13
stone space Jan 2016 #3
Lee-Lee Jan 2016 #5
madokie Jan 2016 #8
hobbit709 Jan 2016 #9
madokie Jan 2016 #11
SoCalDem Jan 2016 #10
jberryhill Jan 2016 #14
WinkyDink Jan 2016 #12

Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 08:31 AM

1. Why limit it to servicemen?

Even if Obama's mother was not an American, he would be by virtue of being born here.
Cruz was born in Canada, not the U.S.
McCain was born in Panama.

If the kid born in Vietnam was acknowledged as an American's child and the paperwork filed he would be an American by birth.

That was my case. I was born in Austria to an Austrian mother and an American father but my father went to the embassy in Vienna and filled out the paperwork. I am an American citizen by birth and have the paperwork to prove it even though I didn't come to the U.S. until I was 9.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 08:33 AM

2. US soldiers are not all US citizens

 


Citizenship is not a requirement to join:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/noncitizenjoin.htm

I don't know what's special about being a soldier on this question.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 08:35 AM

4. Most soldiers are American..and there were many babies fathered over there

and left behind.. So many potential presidents

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 08:39 AM

6. Have those children lived in the US for 14 years?

 

There are three requirements:

1. Citizen by birth

2. 35 years old

3. 14 years a resident of the US

"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."

If you are talking about "left behind" as in "not living in the US" then, no. They'd have to move here and live here for 14 years first.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:14 AM

7. No, but are they as "natural born" as Cruz?

This issue will continue to come up until SCOTUS defines it..

"...
"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President..."

pretty much nails it.. It's the natural born part that's sketchy

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:37 AM

13. Your question was:

 

"Is every child fathered abroad by US servicemen, eligible to be president?"

IF the serviceman is a US citizen, and IF the child has reached 35 and been a resident of the US for 14 years, then the answer is yes.

Your original question was framed in such a way that it seemed you were asking whether there are perhaps adult offspring of US citizen soldiers, which offspring have been living their entire lives abroad, who may be eligible to be president. Since you referenced children "left behind", then the answer is no, since they have not been residing in the United States.

Now you are asking a different question, solely with respect to one of the eligibility conditions. You are now asking about whether they would be "natural born", not whether they are "eligible to be president". NB is one of three conditions of "eligibility".

The Supreme Court doesn't have to rule on the question, since it is not at all clear that this particular question is committed to the SC by the Constitution, and it is difficult to imagine the type of case in which it would play out. The Electoral College and Congress, which receives the result of the Electoral College, both get a crack at that question. However, yes, you see lawyers on TV who are being overly technical saying "there is no authoritative answer" to the question.

If you want to get really technical, do you want to know what else hasn't been answered by the Supreme Court?

In every instance in the Constitution, the president is referred to as "he". There is likewise no Supreme Court decision which has ruled that a woman may also be president. We assume that it would be interpreted as being gender inclusive, but if you want to split hairs then, no, there is no authoritative answer to that question. Certainly at the time it was written, people would have likewise chuckled and said "Well of course a woman can't be president" with the same confidence we would chuckle and say that a woman can be president. But, again, if you can point to a specific date on which that interpretation changed, go ahead and say when exactly that happened - i.e. when did women become eligible to be president, specifically.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 08:34 AM

3. Yes. Why would anybody think otherwise?

 


If Cruz' MOTHER had been a Vietnamese woman, impregnated by a US soldier, would he still be eligible?

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 08:35 AM

5. Here it is from INS

 

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock
A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.

Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Father – “New” Section 309(a)
A person born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen father may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) of the INA, as made applicable by the “new” Section 309(a) of the INA provided:

A blood relationship between the person and the father is established by clear and convincing evidence;
The father had the nationality of the United States at the time of the person’s birth;
The father was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions prior to the child’s birth for five years, at least two of which were after reaching the age of 14.
The father (unless deceased) has agreed in writing to provide financial support for the person until the person reaches the age of 18 years, and
While the person is under the age of 18 years --
the person is legitimated under the law of his/her residence or domicile,
the father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
the paternity of the person is established by adjudication of a competent court.
Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Father – “Old” Section 309(a) of the INA- A child born out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen father may acquire U.S. citizenship under the former Section 301(a)(7) of the INA as made applicable by the “old” Section 309(a) of the INA if the U.S. citizen father, prior to the child’s birth, had been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for ten years, five of which were after the age of 14, and if the paternity of the child had been established by legitimation prior to the child reaching the age of 21. The “old” Section 309(a) of the INA is applicable to individuals who were 18 on November 14, 1986 and to individuals whose paternity had been established by legitimation prior to that date. Individuals who were at least 15 on November 14, 1986, but under the age of 18, could opt to have their claim determined in accordance with the provisions of either the “old” or the “new” Section 309(a).

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:17 AM

8. Why wasn't Obama not

immediately considered eligible for the Presidency because his mother is an American Citizen no matter where she gave birth

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Response to madokie (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:18 AM

9. 3 guesses, first two don't count.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:24 AM

11. That's exactly what I thought

If you're White then this all may apply but if you're Yellow, Brown or Black, forget it

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Response to madokie (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:19 AM

10. Because Republicans are evil rotten twits

with limited cognitive ability

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Response to madokie (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:43 AM

14. Because of the relevant immigration law in 1961

 


In 1961, there were additional age and length of US residency as an adult question which would have disqualified a person born abroad to an 18 year old US citizen mother.

There are still US residency requirements on the US citizen parent, but they have been lowered.

Under the old system, you could send your pregnant teen daughter for a "semester abroad", she could have the baby and give it to a convent, and she could return to the US without risk of the child showing up later on.

It doesn't work that way any more.

The point of the residency requirement of the US citizen parent is so that there are not successive generations of US citizens born to people who have never even lived in the US.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2016, 09:26 AM

12. Let's cut to the chase: Republicans would say a being born on Mars to a Jovian and a Venusian can

 

be US President, if said creature registers as a Republican.

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