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Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:00 PM

The Recapture of Ramadi from ISIS is a Very Big Deal

The victory of Iraqi army troops in Ramadi is a major blow to ISIS after the terrorist group has suffered a series of setbacks in Iraq. The expulsion of ISIS fighters from Ramadi, probably the second most important city lost to ISIS after the city of Mosul, is very symbolic. It begins to unravel the ISIS claim to legitimacy and arguably its best recruiting tool - the establishment of a caliphate in Iraq and Syria and then throughout the Middle East. If ISIS can not conquer and maintain territory, it's caliphate cannot long endure. Without safe territory from which to operate and the caliphate as a symbol of its legitimacy , it will be far more difficult for ISIS propagandist to effectively radicalize other Muslims from afar.

It is important that the Iraq army was up to the task. Since it is a Sunni enclave, it was important that it was the army who liberated the Ramadi, and not the Shia militias and their Iranian allies who have been doing most of the fighting against ISIS until now. It probably even more important that Sunni tribesmen who live in that area joined the Iraqi army's assault against ISIS which claims to be fighting for Sunni Muslims everywhere. Now it is important for the Iraqi army to continue to maintain control of the city. The Shia lead government in Baghdad must provide the citizens of Ramadi a measure of autonomy. Ultimately total victory against ISIS in Iraq cannot be achieved unless the Sunnis are provided the right to participate fully in the Iraqi government.

It's going to be a long war; there informed estimates that it will take the Iraqi army at least a year to recapture Mosul and still longer to rid the entire country of the ISIS scourge. Even then, ISIS will continue to operate almost with impunity in Syria. It will continue to do so until a political solution is reached to remove the Assad government from power and steps are taken to naturalize belligerent forces. Only then can ISIS be rooted out entirely.

Meanwhile, ISIS will still be a threat around the world based on their ability to radicalize young men and women in our midst. This is where our courage will be tested. We can only be terrorized if we give into to that fear. Right wing politicians in this country and around the world will try to emphasis the threat and fan the flames of fear in order to gain and retain power. In the process they will try to turn the citizens in their countries against the Muslims in their midst and in the process will cultivate fertile ground for ISIS self radicalization.

ISIS can only terrorize us if we give into to the fear that they endeavor to cultivate and resort to self destructive actions. We must stand tall like the citizens of Paris and prove that we will not be terrorized.

The original article can be found here: The Recapture of Ramadi from ISIS is a Very Big Deal

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Arrow 48 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Recapture of Ramadi from ISIS is a Very Big Deal (Original post)
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 OP
spanone Dec 2015 #1
clarice Dec 2015 #2
snooper2 Dec 2015 #4
bvar22 Dec 2015 #22
MariaThinks Dec 2015 #7
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #23
MariaThinks Dec 2015 #39
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #41
Nevernose Dec 2015 #31
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #46
Nevernose Dec 2015 #48
clarice Dec 2015 #40
Kingofalldems Dec 2015 #8
Doctor_J Dec 2015 #13
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #24
Kingofalldems Dec 2015 #16
anigbrowl Dec 2015 #20
Peregrine Took Dec 2015 #3
BeyondGeography Dec 2015 #5
karynnj Dec 2015 #6
Kingofalldems Dec 2015 #9
kentuck Dec 2015 #10
winstars Dec 2015 #14
pampango Dec 2015 #36
Marrah_G Dec 2015 #11
kentuck Dec 2015 #12
Marrah_G Dec 2015 #17
Doctor_J Dec 2015 #15
MisterP Dec 2015 #18
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #25
Doctor_J Dec 2015 #30
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #32
Proserpina Dec 2015 #19
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #26
Octafish Dec 2015 #21
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #27
Doctor_J Dec 2015 #28
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #34
daleo Dec 2015 #29
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #33
TwilightGardener Dec 2015 #35
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #37
TwilightGardener Dec 2015 #38
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #42
TwilightGardener Dec 2015 #43
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #44
Hortensis Dec 2015 #45
CajunBlazer Dec 2015 #47

Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:02 PM

1. K&R...

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:36 PM

2. Did you notice.....

 

122 views and 2 responses.....I guess nobody else here thinks that that this is good news.
I wonder why??? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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Response to clarice (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:46 PM

4. there are a lot of 24x7x365 debbie downers here

 

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:46 PM

22. We've heard it all before for over 10 years.

They can see the "light at the end of the tunnel."
Only a few more Friedman Units till its all over.

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Response to clarice (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:06 PM

7. taking isis down is great news - but they are very far from finished

I think is very simplistic and even insulting to say: "We can only be terrorized if we give into to that fear."

People being shot and killed at a Christmas party by islamist terrorists who became radicalized after they started becoming more religious requires a better response than 'don't be afraid, it's only a bad few' (this after Paris, the Boston Marathon and many other countries which are now in shambles because of radical islam).

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Response to MariaThinks (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:59 PM

23. Your chances of getting hit by lightning are far better that getting attacked by terrorists

If you chose to live in fear because the news of the attacks were carried by the national media day after day, that that is your decision, but don't call it insulting when I bring it to your attention.

Afraid is exactly what ISIS and other terrorist groups (not to mention Republican politicians) want you to be. If you want to play into their hands, again that is your decision to make. If you are still in fear after reading, be courageous. Courage is not lack of fear, but the act of overcoming fear.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:11 PM

39. where do you get the odds of lightning versus terrorism?

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Response to MariaThinks (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 01:16 PM

41. I looked it up, just like you could have done instead of letting terrorist terrorize you

"The chance of an average person living in the US being struck by lightning in a given year is estimated at 1 in 960,000, ..... Lightening Strikes (from Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_strike

List of US terrorist attack in US: Terrorist attacks by violent jihadis in the US since 9/11

14 people and wounded 21 others in San Bernardino, Calif., Total causalities 35

Firing on two military installations in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Four Marines and one sailor were killed and a police officer was injured. 6 causalities

Muhammad art exhibit event in Garland, Texas - one police officer injured. 1 causality

Total terror causalities in the US in 2015: 42

Total population of the United States: 322,583,006 as of July 1 2014.

Odds of being a casualty of a terrorist attack in the United States during 2015: 1 in 7,867,878

So you are 8 times more likely to to be struck by lightening than you are of being a causality in a terrorist attack in the US.

So why is it that your are so afraid of terrorists - the easy answer - because you let yourself be frightened by the media, disingenuous politicians, and the terrorists.

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Response to MariaThinks (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:52 PM

31. I'm sincerely not convinced that Islamic extremism was their primary motive

The guy got into an argument at a work party, felt insulted, went home, got his gun, and killed ONLY his coworkers at the party. No use of the pipe bombs in the apartment, no murdering any one of the HUNDREDS of other unarmed people there, including people that they walked past. Islamic terrorism might, indeed, have been on the agenda, but it looks like it was hardly item number one.

More related to your post: if the FBI is correct and they "were radicalized" in 2012 or before, then ISIS clearly had nothing to do with it, since they were neither an international organization nor known outside Northern Iraq until early 2014/late 2013. The guy was born and raised in Illinois and was about as American as you can get, just like the Colorado Springs religious terrorist from the same week; we should hardly be worried about some revolution in Iraq.

I'm sorry if you feel insulted by pointing out the obvious: terrorists' sole aim is to cause terror. If, then you feel terror, then the terrorists have achieved their aim. Lots of modern countries have endured far longer, more intense periods of terrorism, yet the populace wasn't arming themselves in fear and obsessing on cable news.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:46 PM

46. Don't you think that instesting that he planned another terrorist attack....

....two years before with the guy who bought the 2 assault rifles for him and that those two rifles were used in the assault on the Christmas party. And how about the fact that they had 20 pipe bombs laying around the house and planted others at the scene of the party which failed go off because they had faulty remote detonation devices. And how about the wife who went on social media and declared her allegiance to ISIS (the terror organization du jour) right before the attack. And how many guys can go to a party and come home and say to his wife, "This guy ticked me off. Let's grab our AR-15's and a few bombs, drop the baby off at my mother's house, and go shoot up the party" - and wife who is the mother of an infant says, "Hell yea! Let's do it now!

There is little doubt they were planning a terror attack. Maybe they switched their target at the last minute after the argument, but that couple was a time bomb ready to blow and that bomb would have gone off sooner or later, probably sooner because their planning was evidently complete.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 08:01 PM

48. I think you're missing some of the point

If he DID plan other attacks, two years before, then that was before ISIS existed in its modern form and therefore he was not radicalized in response to anything ISIS did.

Everything else you say is true, 100%. It absolutely was a terrorist attack.

However, it is very, very odd that this particular terrorist attack was also apparently an incidence workplace violence. It would be like finding out Mohammad Atta had been fired from his job at the World Trade Center on September 10. There's certainly nothing to indicate that, although an attack was planned, that this attack was planned, and that makes it weird.

(One edit: now she may or may not have been online posting admiration for the leader of ISIS. Even if she did, it was damn sure weird that she'd use an alias and only use that account once, for one sentence.

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Response to MariaThinks (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:31 PM

40. +1 nt

 

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Response to clarice (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:09 PM

8. Nice innuendo there.

Tell us what you think instead throwing out passive aggressive posts.

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Response to clarice (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:21 PM

13. I did notice that many so called dems now like war.

 

And sound just like the republicans sounded when Bush told us the surge worked, and we were making progress.

One classic symptom of authoritarian personalities is that they change their viewpoints on issues depending on who is in charge. IMO it's better to have principles than idols.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:21 PM

24. If you can't distinguish between "liking war" and...

Last edited Mon Dec 28, 2015, 10:45 PM - Edit history (3)

...being happy with the fact that extremely evil force in the world is one more small step closer to be eliminated, you have a very weird perspective indeed.

I for one am happy that this is good news for the Obama administration which has pursued a course of refusing to get us re-involved in the Middle East mess created by W and his cronies more than is absolutely necessary and because it is a rebuke of Republican politicians who would have us involved again up to our eyeballs.

And by the way, I wrote the original article and I do not have an authoritarian personality; nor do I change my viewpoints based on who is in charge. Be careful who you insult.

And I get it - you don't like war - I served in my country's military and I can assure you that I hate it far worse than you ever can. I would love to live in a world were war is obsolete. That is a certainly a worth while goal. But I live in the real world where war is often a fact of life and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it because we have not yet eliminated countless centuries of animosity. I like would like to pretend that all of that didn't exist, but most of us can't afford to live in your fantasy world.

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Response to clarice (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:23 PM

16. Already quite a few response with 15 recs and counting.

What are you implying?

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Response to clarice (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:44 PM

20. How many responses do you think it should get?

 

It had only been up half an hour when you posted. I sorta think it's good news, but frankly I take all news from the Middle East with a big pinch of salt, good or bad, because individual events are rarely a good indivaotr of long-term trends in the region. So I don't think ISIS is quite the existential crisis some make it out to be, but on the other hand I don't think a setback like this is a good indicator that ISIS will soon be defeated.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:45 PM

3. The gist I got on the BBC World Service the other night was "getting" it is one thing

but holding onto it is quite another.

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Response to Peregrine Took (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:22 PM

5. Baghdadi might say, "Tell me about it."

Works both ways, I guess.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:38 PM

6. This is good news and the article states why it is such good news very well.

One of the first steps the US took in 2014 was to try to persuade Iraq to use the recent election results to form a more inclusive government where there could be hope that the Sunnis would not be excluded - as happened under Maliki. Though the government initially said many things that were right, this is the first news that suggests that they have really acted on that. If Sunnis are joining against ISIS -- that is a huge very big deal.


Do you write the blog that you linked to?

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:12 PM

9. Agreed. Obama is doing a great job.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:15 PM

10. It's a huge defeat for the Republicans.

There is not one of them fit to take over for Obama.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:21 PM

14. But Wolf Blitzer said we are all gonna die. ISIS is here! Like, you know, when EBOLA killed us all.

Remember that day!!!

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Response to kentuck (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:52 PM

36. It does not fit their talking point about Obama's not having a plan but facts don't matter to their

base. Their campaign sound bite about Obama's plan to deal with ISIS will not change in response to actual events.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:17 PM

11. I'm surprised

I hope they can keep it. I'm going to have to go see which part of the Iraqi Army managed this, because frankly, many of the troops are terrible soldiers.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:20 PM

12. Probably with some help from our CIA and special forces?

It would be surprising to see them take or defend anything. And that is Sunni territory, part of Saddam's old regime.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:23 PM

17. True

There are some documentaries and the troops shown are well.....idiots. The difference between them and the Kurds is astonishing. High, belligerent, wasting ammo, shooting at nothing, and the corruption is nuts.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:22 PM

15. The surge is working!

 

I guess it's rerun season.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:29 PM

18. only 6 months of war left!

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:25 PM

25. Your implied comparison of the Bush Jr. and Obama adminstrations is insulting! (n/t)

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:35 PM

30. so is your belief that the war is, or can be, won.

 

I expect such idiocy at freeperville, which is why I don't go there

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:56 PM

32. Terrorism cannot be totally eliminated...

.... but it is utterly stupid to allow ISIS to establish a safe haven from which to operate.

Understand that ISIS was not allowed to prosper because of President Obama's war. He is like the guy following the circus parade with a broom trying to clean up the elephant poo. Not a fun job, but someone has to do it when you follow an idiot in the Presidency.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:40 PM

19. And it wouldn't have happened without the able support of President

 

Vladimir Putin and his well-disciplined and expert armed forces....but there will be no recognition of that fact on this website, nor in the media. Because the truth hurts when you've been fed lies since Reagan and believed them.

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Response to Proserpina (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:27 PM

26. You are terribly misinformed if you think that the Russians had anything to...

....do with the taking of Ramadi.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:54 PM

21. That sounds like great news. Why did we invade Iraq, again?

I'm not sure we've been briefed on that. Not the first time, either:

Remember the Kuwait ambassador's daughter who testified to Congress she was a nurse back in 1991?



She "pretended" to work at a Kuwaiti City hospital where she saw the invading Iraqi soldiers take babies from their incubators and leave them on the cold, hard floor to die -- just so they could steal the incubators for Baghdad and provide her with an excellent opportunity to commit perjury.

http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html

What her daddy, the Kuwaiti ambassador, said: "If I wanted to lie, or if we wanted to lie, if we wanted to exaggerate, I wouldn't use my daughter to do so. I could easily buy other people to do it."

Of course, even then, it seems George H.W. Bush couldn't drum up much support for war for oil. He then started calling Saddam "Hitler" and stating he had WMDs, specifically nukes, aimed at Washington and Detroit and who knows where else. All lies, of course.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:29 PM

27. This isn't about the mistakes that Republicans in their arrogence....

... made in the past. This is about correcting one of the results those mistakes - ISIS.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:32 PM

28. some questions you REALLY don't want answered

 

Eight years ago big media told us the surge worked. Here they are again. Election year - time to wave those flags and for God sake, don't vote for anyone who doesn't support endless war.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:03 PM

34. I wrote the dang article, and I'm not waving the flag.

My point is that if the success against ISIS continues it is a total repudiation of those Republican politicians who are trying to scare the hell out of the American people and in the process get us further involved in the mess they created in Iraq.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:32 PM

29. Not just a Very Big Deal

But a BFD.

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Response to daleo (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:59 PM

33. Thank you Mr. Vice President

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Response to CajunBlazer (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:20 PM

35. It actually isn't. They--and we--shouldn't have lost Ramadi to begin with.

To a few hundred ISIS fighters, no less. We watched on surveillance drones while ISIS used bulldozers to enter government compounds, and basically shrugged it off at the time, minimal airstrikes conducted--even Gen. Dempsey said losing Ramadi wouldn't be a huge concern last spring, before it fell. We didn't seem to care enough about it to help Iraq hang on to it to begin with. Now Iraq, the WH, State and Pentagon want to trumpet this as a win? LOL.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 10:44 PM

37. Yes, exactly, trumpet this as a win!

As you will recall we didn't have much to do with the loss of Ramadi. The Iraqi army was first destroyed by the Bush administration approved De-Ba'athification strategy and then rendered impotent by Maliki's political meddling and his appointment incompetents to position of military leadership. At Ramadi, though they possessed vastly superior numbers, equipment, and firepower, the Iraqi army dropped their weapons and fled at their first taste of combat against ISIS fighters. (By the way those ISIS fighters were commanded by former Sunni leaders of the Iraqi army who were purged by the Iraqi Shia lead government during their De-Ba'athification expulsions.)

So yes, it is a big deal when better lead and trained Iraqi forces were able to rout the ISIS defenders in Ramadi. For a long while I thought that only the Kurds had the backbone and will power to oppose ISIS on the battlefield in Iraq. The fact that the Iraqi army not only returned to Ramadi, the site of their biggest embarrassment, but were also victorious bodes well for President's Obama's strategy of the minimal involvement of US ground personal. Not only does it minimize American casualties, but it also denies ISIS the recruiting tool of advertising that they are fighting hand to hand with the hated Americans.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #37)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:53 AM

38. No, there were Iraqi troops holding out in Ramadi for a while before it fell.

It wasn't a Mosul type collapse, which was a surprise for pretty much everyone. This time they didn't turn and run at the first sign of trouble--rather, it was the last in a string of losses in that province, and then they retreated. But we saw that they were struggling to hold on for weeks, and we didn't exactly pour on the help or instill a sense of urgency to hold that city. The real question is, why were we and Iraq still losing large cities to ISIS a full year after the fall of Mosul and nine months after airstrikes and advisors? There's no excuse. All we're doing now is correcting a big failure that didn't have to happen--just prolonged the war.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #38)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:25 PM

42. Quit bitching about the past and instead look to the future

40% of the territory ISIS conquered has been lost. They can't state with any legitimacy that they their caliphate will ultimately consist of most of the Middle East when they can't even hang on to the land they have already conquered. If this trend continues, and we will see if it does, their entire self proclaimed reason for existence will be open to serious question.

They are like Donald Trump - they can brag that they are winners as long as they are winning - but when they start to lose day after day - not so much.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #42)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 03:36 PM

43. I don't automatically buy any spin that comes out of

the WH, State, or Pentagon, or their media cheerleaders/critics. The war effort was essentially placed on the back burner/low simmer in the spring and summer, until Russia got involved in Syria and started making overtures to Iraq--then all of a sudden we decided we needed to show some progress, because that's OUR turf, dammit! It's all a fucking joke. Now we're strutting around bragging about 10,000 Iraqi army personnel dislodging 400 fighters. We could have wiped these guys out far more quickly than we have. I was and am a believer in the air war, minimal US ground personnel needed, but we allowed the effort to erode to the point that many of our coalition partners sorta quit, Iraqis were suspicious that we were actually trying to HELP ISIS, and the use of ground troops was being declared necessary by various idiots. Just completely mismanaged--or was it on purpose? It's nice that we're back to where we were last April, though. Yay.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #43)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:25 PM

44. I wote the article - not the White House, not the State Department, not the Penagon

Whether you respect my opinion or not is truly not one of my concerns.

Future events will prove one of us right and one of us wrong - no offense and nothing personal, but I hope that it is you that is wrong.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #44)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:05 PM

45. You're right, of course, CajunBlazer, this is a big deal.

It is irrelevant that our strategists didn't feel moving against Daesh sooner would advance our regional goals as much as not. Apparently details of ISIS's retreat from Ramadi make it clear to observers that they are really leaving. News to us but not to those who helped them to that "decision." And their retreat from there is only part of a much larger abandonment of territories they can no longer hold onto.

And, of course, try telling the people of Iraq and Syria, as well as all those Daesh threatens in the region, that that's not a really big deal.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #45)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:49 PM

47. You've evidently got a burr under your saddle that I'm not going to be able to remove

Bye

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