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Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:53 PM

 

"Bashing" President Putin has become the norm for Western mass media.

This subject really needs no introduction. Whether one reads print news or just watches it reported on television, it is impossible to miss the subjective and biased slant of any story even remotely referencing Russia or, especially, Russian President Putin. What is behind this lock-step adherence to anti-Russia/Putin reporting? American political analyst Gilbert Doctorow is certain this uniformity is completely intentional: "Ask how much they are benefiting in terms of grants, professional promotions and access to the high and mighty in Washington for publicly supporting the propaganda lines of State Department handouts."




Russian Federation President Putin meets the press (Sputnik)


Western Media Bigotry: US, UK Pundits Obsessive About Bashing Putin


Although Washington claims it welcomes freedom of thought, it obviously does not when it comes to President Vladimir Putin: incredible as it may seem, there is a startling absence of diverse opinions on the Russian leader in the Western press, US political analyst Gilbert Doctorow observes.

There are a large number of American and British scholars and pundits who are remarkably lopsided in their bias against President Vladimir Putin and Russia, US political analyst and historian Gilbert Doctrow notes, adding that their blatant propaganda has recently reached its climax.

"The US establishment writers on Russia are one and all 'presstitutes' and when you put their writings together, back to back, in 40 pages or so as Johnson's Russia List has so kindly done in its Christmas Eve issue, the result is an astounding propaganda barrage… The count was 14 articles or transcripts of video events slamming Russia and Putin to zero articles holding any other view," Doctorow writes in his latest piece for Consortiumnews.com.

Embarrassingly for reputable media outlets, they view the Russian foreign and domestic policy issues solely through the prism of Vladimir Putin's personality. Furthermore, they have become especially obsessive about bashing the Kremlin. "This is entirely in keeping with the ad hominem argumentation that has become the norm in political discussions generally in the US. Joseph Stalin, with his 'no man, no issue' philosophy of governance must be chuckling, wherever he is, over how this view has caught on in what passes today for polite society," the political analyst remarks with heavy irony.

(snip)



Read more at: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151228/1032418392/western-media-obsessive-about-bashing-putin-russia.html


221 replies, 11408 views

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Reply "Bashing" President Putin has become the norm for Western mass media. (Original post)
another_liberal Dec 2015 OP
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2015 #1
CreekDog Dec 2015 #100
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2015 #102
CreekDog Dec 2015 #103
another_liberal Dec 2015 #152
GGJohn Dec 2015 #160
another_liberal Dec 2015 #173
GGJohn Dec 2015 #174
another_liberal Dec 2015 #178
GGJohn Dec 2015 #179
another_liberal Dec 2015 #221
MBS Dec 2015 #146
another_liberal Dec 2015 #153
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2015 #185
uriel1972 Dec 2015 #2
arely staircase Dec 2015 #3
another_liberal Dec 2015 #9
arely staircase Dec 2015 #11
another_liberal Dec 2015 #27
arely staircase Dec 2015 #67
another_liberal Dec 2015 #79
GGJohn Dec 2015 #13
another_liberal Dec 2015 #63
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another_liberal Dec 2015 #80
GGJohn Dec 2015 #81
CreekDog Dec 2015 #92
another_liberal Dec 2015 #117
Hekate Dec 2015 #118
LittleBlue Dec 2015 #4
another_liberal Dec 2015 #14
uriel1972 Dec 2015 #15
LittleBlue Dec 2015 #18
yeoman6987 Dec 2015 #58
uriel1972 Dec 2015 #60
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LittleBlue Dec 2015 #16
CreekDog Dec 2015 #98
Igel Dec 2015 #38
840high Dec 2015 #83
GGJohn Dec 2015 #5
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another_liberal Dec 2015 #19
MattSh Dec 2015 #31
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LineReply .
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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:56 PM

1. Sputnik again? Really? YuK!

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 03:57 PM

100. Sputnik News: "wholly owned and operated by the Russian government"

Sputnik is an international multimedia service launched on 10 November 2014 by Rossiya Segodnya, an agency wholly owned and operated by the Russian government, which was created by a Decree of the President of Russia on December 9, 2013.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_%28news_agency%29



Posting a link to RT only to show that they own Sputnik News.


Sputnik launched to news orbit: Russia’s new intl media to offer alternative standpoint

Russia has launched an ambitious new project: an international news agency and radio Sputnik. The new media outlet wants to target global audiences with its non-mainstream take on world events.

The news outlet was launched by Rossiya Segodnya under the umbrella of the renowned RIA Novosti brand.

"Many people ask, 'Are you replacing RIA Novosti with Sputnik?' No, we are not,” Rossiya Segodnya’s general director, Dmitry Kiselev, said on Monday.

“RIA Novosti and its flagship website ria.ru remain a crucial information source in Russia, one of the largest in the country’s media market. But outside Russia our agency will be branded as Sputnik, which sounds familiar, warm, swift and romantic," he explained.

...

Sputnik will take a new approach to international broadcasting: instead of having radio stations in foreign languages based in Moscow, as was the case before, Sputnik will rely on local media outlets for content.

https://www.rt.com/news/204231-sputnik-news-agency-launched/


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Response to CreekDog (Reply #100)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:07 PM

102. RT & Sputnik are so clearly propaganda, I'm almost surprised that they're allowed as sources here.

This amounts to shameless Putin pushin', especially knowing this:


Sputnik is an international multimedia service launched on 10 November 2014 by Rossiya Segodnya, an agency wholly owned and operated by the Russian government, which was created by a Decree of the President of Russia on December 9, 2013.


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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #102)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:12 PM

103. The OP wants you to believe links to this are an actual news story

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #103)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:27 AM

152. It is "an actual news story."

 

If you don't agree with the content, explain to me why it is wrong, in your view?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #152)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:41 AM

160. It is "an actual news story."

Coming from a "source" that is wholly owned and controlled by the Kremlin?
Yeah, right, pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #160)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:38 AM

173. Mr. Doctorow is not the Russian government . . .

 

He is an American citizen, and he does not deserve to be slandered for his opinions. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #173)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:44 AM

174. Uh huh.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #174)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:51 AM

178. Does that pass for humor where you live?

 

Happy trails, partner.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #178)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:59 AM

179. Nope, but it doesn't surprise me that you don't understand the meaning of it,

you know, different cultures and all.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #179)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 08:26 AM

221. What culture to you belong to?

 

I'm an American who loves fast food, fast cars and fast . . . I'll just say, if are one of us you know the rest.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #102)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:08 AM

146. + 100 n/t

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #102)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:28 AM

153. As I already noted below . . .

 

The historian Gilbert Doctorow, who is quoted in the article I posted a portion of above, even explains the rationale behind his type of attack:



There is something "McCarthy-ite" about the Western mass media stance on Moscow, since it lacks both pragmatism and objectivity. Furthermore, the attempts to draw a comprehensive picture of what is going on in Russia trigger suspicions that those who do not share "mainstream" views on Putin are on the Kremlin's payroll.



Is that your game?


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Response to another_liberal (Reply #153)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:31 PM

185. Aaahhh, I think it's cute that you think the Putin pushin' is working. You've got your work cut out.

But I'll say this, you are tenacious.

Russia, Putin Held in Low Regard around the World

Russia’s Image Trails U.S. across All Regions


Outside its own borders, neither Russia nor its president, Vladimir Putin, receives much respect or support, according to a new Pew Research Center survey. A median of only 30% see Russia favorably in the nations outside of Russia. Its image trails that of the United States in nearly every region of the world. At the same time, a median of only 24% in the countries surveyed have confidence in Putin to do the right thing in world affairs, and there is far less faith in the Russian leader than there is in U.S. President Barack Obama.

Opinions of Russia are more unfavorable than favorable in 26 nations. The strongest negative sentiment is in Poland and Jordan (both 80%). The former is a legacy of a long history of bilateral tensions. Public opinion in Jordan may be influenced by Moscow’s current support for the regime of President Bashar al-Assad in Syria, Jordan’s neighbor and the source of hundreds of thousands of refugees in Jordan. Anti-Russian sentiment is also particularly strong in Israel (74%), Japan (73%), Germany (70%) and France (70%).


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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:58 PM

2. And Putin is really a nice guy because?

It isn't like he's persecuting LGBTQI people or imprisoning his political enemies or... oh

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:58 PM

3. I love how you use his title.

Is that required?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:06 PM

9. Thank you . . .

 

But what do you mean by, "Required?" The format I use?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:07 PM

11. Are you required to do that or does it just look good?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:35 PM

27. There is no required format for General Discussion posts, at least none I know of . . .

 

I just try to make an honest representation of the source article's content (and intent) as I understand it.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:24 PM

67. Do you put 'president' before 'Obama' when you post. nt

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #67)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:08 AM

79. Always . . .

 

Unless in the context it would appear distractingly redundant.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:08 PM

13. Required, as in required by the Kremlin. eom.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:42 PM

63. The Kremlin requires it?

 

What a wonderful world of imagination and fantasy. How happy you must be.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #63)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:43 PM

69. Go ahead and play coy, but you know exactly what it means. eom.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #69)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:13 AM

80. May the visions never end . . .

 

May the illusions never fade from your view.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #80)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:14 AM

81. Visions and illusions?

I hardly think so.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:28 PM

92. not sure, for example, here is your post saying Putin wasn't going after gays:

Star Member another_liberal (8,627 posts)

Putin: Russia isn't 'going after' gays with new propaganda law.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014700862

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #92)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:19 PM

117. When did I say that?

 

I don't remember the context at all. Post the whole comment and we can talk about it.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #92)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:19 PM

118. That's a real knee-slapper, that is. Wait -- it's not The Onion? nt

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:03 PM

4. Putin was right on Syria from the start

 

When our own traitorous media advocated arming terrorists and overthrowing a secular dictator. They were gung-ho on Libya too.

The Fourth Estate is dead and all that's left is a corporate cancer full of people who frankly lack intelligence. My respect for journalists at this stage couldn't be lower. Prostitutes are more respectable.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:11 PM

14. Our media have become little more than whores for access to the powerful . . .

 

Access to story-makers is the lifeblood of their profession, but ethics, balance and fairness are supposed to be the dominate concerns of a "Free Press."

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:14 PM

15. Hmmmm I don't particullarly like the equation of sex workers....

with people that have no morals or ethics. I also think it's a bit sexist.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:18 PM

18. Sex workers, I believe, are mostly nice people

 

Their profession doesn't actively attempt to harm people like our mainstream media. Prostitutes never forced the yellowcake lies upon the public to get us into a war.

Fuck the media, scumbags.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:57 PM

58. What about the guys in the sex industry? They don't count?

 

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #58)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:23 PM

60. Of course they do...

However the poster keeps using the term "whores", which as I understand it means women. Perhaps you know it differently?

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #60)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:21 PM

62. Oh yeah. True. Thanks.

 

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:14 PM

16. Well said

 

A free, independent media is an ally of the people. These mainstream media types will do anything to get access.

And anything for ratings. This is why the media complain 24/7 about Trump yet put all his speeches on TV, while even our candidates barely get coverage.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 03:03 PM

98. So you're saying Sputnik News is a more reliable source?

For some reason it seems like your standard for linking to a news source is not as high if the source is friendly to Putin, Russia or is critical of Ukraine.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:15 PM

38. F --> T is T

Logical implication. A true statement based on a false premise is logically true.

This makes some people's brains bleed. It strikes many as counter-intuitive.

"The sky is made of orange marmelade, therefore water freezes at 0 degrees C" is a valid implication.

The truth of the second statement is unquestioned; it doesn't matter what the first part is. "My cat gave birth to a little of cow-headed snakes that recited the Qur'aan backwards in what they claimed was the original Hittite before morphing into aliens that floated to the stars, therefore water freezes at 0 degrees C." Meh, true.


However, it pays to note that Putin was right only if you simplify his claims. Much of what happened he made no utterances on, at least none that got noticed in the West; some of the predictions were made true by his own actions, therefore it's not just a predictions but also an achievement; what would have happened without his actions are a mystery that can't be known; what lay in the future is also still unknown, and even more unknowable given what Russia's been doing.

I'd also point out that you give away too much "Advocated arming terrorists" presumes a rather restricted viewpoint, and I'm fairly sure that nobody in 2011 advocated arming "terrorists." In fact, this was the very point that Obama and others made into a virtue--they sought to arm those that even the media had trouble calling "terrorists."

Just as the media were gung-ho on Libya, they were also gung-ho on Egypt and Tunis. It's quite a question as to what would have happened in Egypt--most of the media reports about how bad Morsi was looked at early drafts of proposed laws, with many sidelined for months and others changed appreciably from start to finish (with the early drafts cited to the last). Tunis worked out, so far, but who knows how that will go?

But the media were wrong not because they advocated siding with terrorists, but because they were blind--the initial revolt in Syria was backed by those that were similar in form and sometimes substance by 2nd-gen educated Westerners, and they have this blindness--they think that the world is like them. In Syria, as much of the world, is populated by less educated folk and many of those educated are narrowly educated former peasants or workers who bring the same culture and mindset into the educated world that their uneducated peers have. "Education" used to include moral, cultural, social, and academic education; for many these days, "education" is obtaining the required skill set for a job and is what would have been called "training" 40 years ago.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:56 AM

83. +10

 

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:04 PM

5. Sputnik news again?

You seem to heap praise on Putin more than your own president, why is that?

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:06 PM

10. you are assuming those are two different things nt

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:20 PM

19. I'm not exactly praising anyone here . . .

 

Just because I don't hate the Russian President enough to call him a string of nasty names does not mean I also think he is always worthy of my praise.

As for President Obama: I did organizing work his first Presidential campaign and I voted for him twice. I have also praised him when I believed his actions (or decisions not to act) have called for it.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:00 PM

31. So if you say something decent about someone, that means...

you can never praise anyone else again, ever?

On what planet does or should that rule exist?

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Response to MattSh (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:59 PM

42. Except I didn't say that now did I.

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Response to MattSh (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:28 PM

53. You are trying to persuade idiots--save your breath

 

Some people never heard that the USSR is no more, Stalin is dead, and communism a chapter in the history books....

and in this world of today, it would be foolish to cut off one's nose to spite Russia. Because Russia doesn't really care how foolish America behaves, it will do what must be done.

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Response to Proserpina (Reply #53)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:35 PM

55. So, we're idiots because we don't buy what Russia and Putin are trying to sell?

I do see idiots, just not the ones you think.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:22 PM

120. One wonders, doesn't one.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:04 PM

6. LOL, he's a 2-bit dictator w/ delusions of grandeur. His web-based lap dogs are especially pathetic

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Response to FSogol (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:09 AM

157. Unfortunately

 

He's more like a 24-bit dictator.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:04 PM

7. .

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:05 PM

8. Crimea and eastern Ukraine are all a huge conspiracy by the Western media!!!!one

in case I need to

In addition to what others have said.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:02 PM

32. I live in Ukraine...

and if you think the western media is coming anywhere close to telling the truth...

Then you need to pull your head out of the western media's ass.

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Response to MattSh (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:09 PM

35. sorry, I'll take the GRAND WESTERN MEDIA CONSPIRACY over what you have to sell....

One anonymous poster on DU who claims to know the entire truth. Yea, right.

Bye.

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Response to MattSh (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:00 PM

43. Uh huh. eom.

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Response to MattSh (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 01:56 AM

86. Where exactly do you in the Ukraine do you live? In the Crimea?

Based on your comments here, I would guess that you were thankful that Putin sent Russian troops to invade your country, is that right? Or do you buy into the Kremlin's story that those Russians solders decided to use their vacations to help their Russian loving Ukrainian brothers across the boarder and somehow figured out how to bring their tanks with them while they were on vacation?

I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from dude.

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Response to MattSh (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:02 PM

101. But you're saying that the Russian owned government news agencies are telling the truth?

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Response to MattSh (Reply #32)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:15 AM

149. Thank you for having the courage to say that . . .

 

"The truth will set you free!"

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:07 PM

12. Lol.....Donnie tRump's favorite dictator

Good company you're in, eh?

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:26 PM

21. I'm not a war-monger . . .

 

So I despise Donald Trump and his fascistic plans for our country.

As for being in "company" with President Putin: International leaders tend to be several levels above my current social standing, so that is a non-starter as well.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:15 PM

17. Putin has become the darling of some of the more unhinged right wingers.

 

The same crew, I suppose, who are constantly calling to secede from the US.

Real fucking patriots.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:30 PM

23. I am personally more worried about those who want to start WWIII . . .

 

You know, like our Military/Industrial Complex and all their mass media whores.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:09 PM

36. "I am personally more worried about those who want to start WWIII . . ."

 

And that is why Putin truly is such a worry. He is clearly going on land grabs and promoting the cleansing of certain groups. He is truly a narcissist and horrifying man.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:25 PM

122. Sadly, the darling of some of the more unhinged left wingers as well. It's jaw-dropping.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #122)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:04 AM

145. yeah, I've also been astonished by this.

Depressing.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:22 PM

20. Rationalizing Pres. Putin's actions have become the norm for the irrational.

Rationalizing Pres. Putin's actions have become the norm for the irrational.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other... insert distinction lacking relevant below to maintain bias.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:27 PM

22. How's the Kremlin borscht today? n/t

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Response to moondust (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:31 PM

24. You're asking me . . .

 

That's a long-shot!

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:32 PM

25. another post another gallon of milk LOL

 

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:36 PM

211. In Soviet Russia message board trolls you! nt

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Response to Codeine (Reply #211)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:38 PM

213. Shades of Yakoff Smirnoff?

I got to see him years ago and he was funny as hell, one of my favorite lines of his was his Taco Bell routine, about Soviet's running for the border.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:32 PM

26. /sigh the enemy of my enemy must be praised at all costs...

That is the same thinking that got the US foriegn policy into the mess it is in today.
How does it feel to channel Kissinger?

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:38 PM

29. Can you "channel" someone before he's dead?

 

I'm pretty sure Henry is still among the living.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:38 PM

28. Invading the Ukraine, annexing the Crimea, killing opponents.

Who would have dreamed that those actions would be condemned?

What? Were they expecting praise?

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Response to FLPanhandle (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 02:44 PM

30. You're right . . .

 

We should never have conspired to cause the overthrown the democratically elected government of Ukraine, and we should never have done it so the U. S. Navy could get its war-mongering hands on Russia's huge naval bases in Crimea. I am very glad the whole imperialistic adventure blew up in our faces like a short-fused firecracker.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:19 PM

39. Oh you are one of the "it's all the US governments fault"

Nevermind.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Reply #39)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:17 PM

49. We certainly don't go out of our way to be known as the good guys . . .

 

At least we haven't for the last few decades.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #49)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:20 PM

51. That doesn't make Putin the good guy though.

He is not and far from it.

Stop blaming the US and judge Putin for what he is. Hint: it's not good (unless you are one of those RW guys who worship him).

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #49)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:28 PM

123. "We"? From where you're standing?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:12 PM

45. Wow, Pravda couldn't have said it better,

Last edited Wed Dec 30, 2015, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)

matter of fact, that's exactly how Pravda would have said it.

Your true colors have shown themselves.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:41 PM

57. The Ukrainian parliament "over threw" their own govt and the USN really doesn't want bases there.

Why would they? We have several NATO partners in the Black Sea if we really wanted a base there.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #30)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:12 PM

202. I want to make sure I understand

 

Are you blaming Russia's actions in the Crimea and Ukraine (which led to the shooting down of a civilian airliner) on the United States?

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:05 PM

33. They treat him with kid gloves.

 

The exact opposite of the propaganda being promoted by sputnik "news." The American people would be horrified if they truly had time to understand what a monster Putin is.

Fuck Putin.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #33)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:20 PM

50. It would be more to the point if one were to say . . .

 

The American people would be horrified if they truly had time to understand what a monster our own country's foreign policy is seen as by the vast majority of people around the world.

Fuck the Pentagon.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #50)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:15 PM

59. I completely agree. Nt

 

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:06 PM

34. Ah that is a classic media scrum photo

 

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:10 PM

37. So he is president? Funny, usually a country freely decides that and not a dictator.

 

Pooty Poot can pretend all he wants to, the rest of the world knows he is a tin horn dictator.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:31 PM

40. Perhaps if Put in wasn't a warmongering piece of shit

 

He wouldn't be treated like one. Put in is a war criminal and should have scorn heaped on him.

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Response to mythology (Reply #40)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:26 PM

52. I assume you are, like me, an American?

 

As citizens of by far the single most hated and feared war-making nation on Earth, we need to be very careful whom we call a, "Warmongering piece of shit." Such charges sound exceedingly hollow coming from one of us.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #52)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 01:00 AM

84. Indeed they sound hollow.

 

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Response to 840high (Reply #84)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:22 AM

151. I guess maybe they do not own . . .

 

Or have access to any mirrors?

A wise man once said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 03:31 PM

41. I've enjoyed bashing Putin for far longer than most.

I'm at about the 15-year mark.

Then again, most of the Russians I know are "liberal" by US political standards, and brought their Putin-bashing with them when they emigrated and had only bad things to say about him. Even as they applauded things he was doing, they pointed to the dark side of the outcomes. Reduce the power of oligarchs? Good, but all that happened is that the oligarch's authority went to Putin cronies, many of whom were oligarchs in position of government authority or government-compliant oligarchs in industry. Things changed, but they were "our" (nashi) people, not even "svoi."

Then I watched the archives get closed, access to things that might prove embarrassing to Russia or specific Russians get shut down, and watched a lot of dissidents grow quiet. You could watch the reaction to perceived humiliation, the conspiracy theories and the nationalistic venting flower in the popular media and get reflected and encouraged by the dominant parties, and the reaction to it that in the fine-arts literature. A lot of the presentation of the West and Americans in particular would be deemed "hate speech" if the same were said about Muslims in the US popular press; there's no real corresponding kind of literature in the West. And the response in the popular literature to the fine-arts literature was downright fascist (or Soviet, not a big difference there). Sorokin was fascinating and went ever more extreme until I ran out of time to follow Russ lit like I used to; Bushkov did likewise. All of this was by 2010. Before "Putin-bashing" was interpreted as being pro-imperialism and fascist.


Notice how the award to the author of Zinky Boys was received. It was decidedly mixed, all but ignored in some arenas but touted in others. In some, it was ignored because she was able to be excluded as Belorusian. In a few, the award was mentioned with pride because she was "Russian," but not the specifics as to why she got it, or it was spun as showing how horrible things were--either the USSR or, as often, how horrible US sponsorship of anti-Russian terrorists was. In more than a few, it took a day or two for the news to make it from press release to the public as the media tried to figure out how, exactly, to present something--was it safe, and if not, how to redact it to make it safe or spin it to neutralize it for the domestic audience while not hurting the media's image abroad. How that award was dealt with is a decent indicator of attitude towards Putin (or level of government influence).

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Response to Igel (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:31 PM

124. Very interesting

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:00 PM

44. From what I've seen, it's quite the opposite

Multiple poot-gasms in the media and among RWers (or is that a redundancy?).

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:14 PM

46. Why wouldn't western media bash such an evil, vile, despicable despot?

 

Seriously, why do you post nothing but pro-Dictator propaganda?

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #46)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:10 PM

47. Come on, you know why.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:14 PM

48. Just another demagogue who came to power by stirring up fear.

 

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:33 PM

54. LMFAO

 

Sputnik News? You cannot be serious with this crap. I know you are, though.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:37 PM

56. ummm....really?

I'm going to just back away slowly.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #56)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:46 PM

61. Adios . . .

 

And happy trails to you.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:49 PM

64. You say that like it's a bad thing

 

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #64)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:01 PM

65. Good or bad it is a pointlessly counterproductive and highly dangerous policy . . .

 

This is not the 19th Century and we are not just playing a real life version of "Imperialism." Tens of millions of lives are at risk when we indulge in outright demonizing of the leader of another major world power. It is sadly childish to continue taking such an automatically negative attitude toward all things Russian.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #65)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:36 PM

125. I think tens of millions of lives were already lost in the 20th Century on their soil...

I think that as a former (?) KGB man, Putin is a holdover from that same era.

I think it is sadly childish to continue to ignore his personal history and to hope we won't notice.

"All things Russian"? No, we're discussing Putin here.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:13 PM

66. So, you quote Putin's propoganda outlet as news.

Two possibilities:

1) You are lacking strong critical thinking skills, naive in certain respects.

2) You are actually part of Putin's disinformation Web presence. The Russian government has groups of people employed to do this.

Is there any other possibility?

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:58 PM

68. After reading this thread, clearly the propaganda's working!

 

Just empty-headed talking points from the flag-wavers among us.
USA, USA

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Response to elias49 (Reply #68)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:46 PM

70. I happen to be one of those flag wavers,

got a problem with that?

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #70)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 10:32 PM

71. I know you are, and yes, I do. eom

 

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Response to elias49 (Reply #71)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:05 PM

72. Too fucking bad. eom.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:13 PM

73. Aww, poor Pootie. The poor bigot's fee-fees might get hurt.

Despite his open condoning of attacks on Russia' LGBT community, his silencing and murder of journalists, his open aggression against neighboring countries, and his oppression of his own citizens, anyone who says anything bad about Putin hates free speech! After all, the press is only free if it kisses Putin's ass and ignores bad stories about him.

A Russian newspaper lecturing people about propaganda is rich.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:20 PM

74. I am quite sure Pussy Riot would agree.

 

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Response to Egnever (Reply #74)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:39 PM

126. And the LGBT community, or what's left of it.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:30 PM

75. My shocked face.

 

Totally not surprised that THIS is subject you care about.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:32 PM

76. So I'm on mobile and couldn't see the author before clicking into the thread...

 

... But I knew with complete certainty who it was and which sources would be used based on the title.

Amazing eh?

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Response to TipTok (Reply #76)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:40 PM

127. You're a mind-reader, for sure

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:33 PM

77. Seriously?

Sputnik News

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:02 AM

78. That is one biased "news" site

Oddly, only Mother Russia is spared the harsh glare of their truthiness.

Russia Was Forced to 'Draw a Line in Syria Against Washington's Aggression'
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151228/1032410750/us-russia-foreign-policy.html#ixzz3vg92fN7F

Cuban Foreign Minister: US Should Stop Illegal Immigration of Cubans
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/#ixzz3vg9RTfW8

A United Eurasia From Minsk to Manila
Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev built upon President Putin's earlier suggestion and formally proposed a grand multilateral economic partnership during his trip to China.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20151215/1031764309/united-eurasia.html#ixzz3vg9hu06F

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:19 AM

82. The last time America hated a dictator so much we got ourselves stuck in a trillion dollar quagmire

Whether or not the person is bad, America risks doing a stupid. costly decision just because we hate some dictator.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #82)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 01:03 AM

85. We don't seem to learn.

 

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Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #82)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:45 PM

131. "America" isn't really paying attention. US media isn't really paying attention. I hear no drumbeats

... for war as I did in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. No special music or special graphics on CNN or MSNBC calling us to war with Putin.

It must suck to be so unwanted.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:44 AM

87. OFFS

Isn't Putin Russian for unicorn fart? At least that's the meme/Pravda right?

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Response to denbot (Reply #87)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:45 AM

88. He is a child of Russia . . .

 

Americans tend to experience very different childhoods.

If you want to learn something enlightening, read a little about President Putin's parents. Talk about some fascinating lives!

Just to cut to the chase, they left a high standard to live up to.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #88)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:41 PM

94. You sure do everything you can to excuse and defend this bigot/racist asshole,

makes one wonder what your true agenda here is.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #94)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:45 PM

95. we know what it is

That is, those of us who have been paying attention know what it is.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #95)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:48 PM

96. Oh believe me, I know what his true agenda is,

I just don't want another hide and time out.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #96)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:48 PM

97. wise person :) nt

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #94)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 03:46 PM

99. For context, take a look at this post:

The day the Malaysian Airlines plane was shot down over the Ukraine.

another_liberal (8,627 posts)
152. Since the plane was painted in Russian colors of white, red and blue . . .

It was much more likely a Ukrainian fighter pilot who made the attack, mistaking the passenger jet for a Russian aircraft.

https://www.google.com/search?q=malaysia+airlines+aircraft+pictures&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WQHIU9r0IsyGyAS9i4KoCw&ved=0CBwQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=929


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=848589

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #99)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:14 PM

104. Wow, that sure is some CT crap right there.

It's pretty clear why this person is here, and it's to be a cheerleader of Putin's.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #94)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:18 PM

105. If I did have an "agenda here" . . .

 

It wouldn't be any of your business, now would it?

Go live your own life (and quit trying to feed off of me).

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #105)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:22 PM

106. Just in case you hadn't noticed, this is a private website open to the public

and I will continue to question your agenda here, which most of us darn well know what it is.

Feed off of you?
I hardly think so.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #106)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:27 PM

107. And you are constantly stalking me.

 

Stalking me from board to board and post to post. I resent it, so stop it before I have to.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #107)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:50 PM

108. So people who post disagreements with you in your threads are stalking you?

wow.

so your threads are only open to those who agree with whatever Russia's mouthpiece news agency is saying?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #108)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:52 PM

111. Constantly stalking my posts so he can make not so veiled suggestions . . .

 

That I work for the Russian government is not "disagreeing" with me. Nor is repeatedly commenting merely to say the sources I use "Suck" and that they are "Pieces of shit."

Those are the sum and extent of his numerous replies to my OPs and comments. If that is not simple stalking for the purpose of slandering a fellow DU member what is?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #111)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:18 PM

187. Whose work are you doing when you post material from Sputnik News?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #107)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:21 PM

110. So because I dispute your posts, I'm stalking you?

I resent it, so stop it before I have to.


Really? And just what are you going to do?

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #110)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:57 PM

112. Repeatedly suggesting I work for the Russian government . . .

 

And endlessly posting comments merely to say the sources I use "Suck" and that they are "Pieces of shit" are not what I call ways of "disputing" my posts. That is slander, simple character assassination.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #112)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:02 PM

113. I don't know if you work for the Russian Government

I could only say I would find no objective difference between what you post and some one who did.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #113)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:12 PM

114. Your opinion has no bearing on the fact that saying so on these boards is an insult . . .

 

It is pure and simple character assassination, especially since I have repeatedly stated that my opinions are my own and that what I post has never been at the instruction or request of any government.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #114)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:18 PM

116. If you're so insulted, then you have 2 choices, either use the ignore function,

or alert on my posts.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #116)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:20 PM

119. Your advice?

 

Get serious.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #119)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:24 PM

121. Either or, your choice. eom.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #121)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:39 AM

140. OK, put your cards on the table . . .

 

I have stated that I am not an agent of any government. What I write here are my own opinions, and I am not taking direction from anyone to do so, least of all any government or agency of any government.

Are you, on the other hand, prepared to publicly state the same? Are you, Mr. GGJohn, a government agent or under the direction of or working for anyone who guides your posting here at Democratic Underground?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #140)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:39 AM

159. LOL, sure you're not.

I'm quite prepared to state that I'm just a farmer in the Flagstaff area.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #159)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:25 AM

166. Good . . .

 

I accept that, and for me to do otherwise would be to call you a liar. I expect the same acceptance of my stated independent status, For you to do otherwise would be calling me a liar, which is an insult plain and simple.

Are we clear on this?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #166)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:48 AM

176. I could care less whether or not you accept it,

you constantly post pro Kremlin propaganda, taken straight from the Kremlin's pet "news" sources, you are an apologist for Putin, it's really that simple.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #114)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:19 AM

136. I didn't say you were

I have no way to know if you are.
I only said I see no difference between your posts and some one else who was paid by the Russian Government.
Yes that is my opinion of your posts. Do you think I don't have the right to state it?

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Response to edhopper (Reply #136)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:32 AM

139. You are not who I am complaining about . . .

 

It is, of course, the poster who uses the alias of "GGJohn" who has, at least three times on this string alone, suggested I am following orders from the "Kremlin." It is noteworthy that the historian Gilbert Doctorow, who is quoted in the article I posted a portion of above, even explains the rationale behind his type of attack:


There is something "McCarthy-ite" about the Western mass media stance on Moscow, since it lacks both pragmatism and objectivity. Furthermore, the attempts to draw a comprehensive picture of what is going on in Russia trigger suspicions that those who do not share "mainstream" views on Putin are on the Kremlin's payroll.



Mr. GG is clearly serving to advance this kind of character assassination as means of censorship.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #139)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:45 AM

161. Again, if it bothers you that much, you have 2 choices,

either use the ignore function, or hit the alert button.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #139)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:22 AM

165. Character assassination is an understandable defense against character worship.

 

I wonder if you have the same opinion of Kim Jong Un of North Korea. After all, the only media sources that support him are his own. Just like Putin's. So what is your opinion of Kim?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #165)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:29 PM

207. That is nonsese . . .

 

Character assassination is never acceptable. Look it up.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #207)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:33 PM

209. Except that's not what I did,

I questioned your, ummm, paymaster.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #209)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 07:55 AM

220. I have no "paymaster" . . .

 

Perhaps you are paid to post here, I am not.

BTW: You seem to have some "trouble with reading" too. I was responding to "randome."

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #107)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:47 PM

133. This thread is not stalking. And was that a cut-off threat of some sort? Have to what?

"Board to board"? Where else are you sharing the love?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #105)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:42 PM

130. It most certainly is our business what your agenda is

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:11 AM

89. POUND those war drums, POUND those war drums, POUND those war drums, POUND those war drums ...

 

Our bought-and-paid-for "free" press is doing what they're paid to do.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #89)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:51 PM

134. Actually I don't hear any such thing against Putin. In the run-up to the invasion of Iraq...

...the airwaves were saturated with special music, special graphics, endless talk of what was to come.

All we're hearing these days is Trump.

Must suck to be so ignored.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 10:48 AM

90. So why is GD an outlet for Russian propaganda?

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #90)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 11:21 AM

91. Admins forgot to make open propagandizing a TOS violation.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #91)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:37 PM

93. well....let's look at this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).
Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.


Propagandizing for a fascist, territory-grabbing, LGBT-hating, dissent-suppressing foreign regime comes pretty close to that section.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #93)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:53 PM

135. Hmmmm. Very interesting.

I think the Admins are currently on some sort of vacation -- perhaps this could be addressed more fully after the New Year.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #90)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:07 AM

137. You guys are breaking the rules.

"No whining about du in gd." Its the number one rule so stop your whining already. That poster who posted this op has been stalked by posters who want to turn du into an echo chamber.

I'm surprised that one poster, in particular might be over excited by firearm humping and sniffing cold war jockstraps to realize what he is doing is transparent harrassment.

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Response to nilesobek (Reply #137)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:50 AM

162. If that's the case, then I would suggest that you either put them on ignore or use the alert button.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #162)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:45 PM

215. I'd love to see the Admins' reaction whenever they get back from wherever they are right now.

Meanwhile I guess it's up to the the members.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 04:51 PM

109. Are the benefits good? Like 401 K and dental?

 

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:16 PM

115. Are you serious? Pointing out the old KGB man wants to reconstitute the Soviet Empire is "bashing"?

Has Sputnik News asked the Ukrainians what they think of President Sweetness-and-Light?

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Response to Hekate (Reply #115)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:43 AM

141. If it is bashing . . .

 

It is bashing, and it clearly is.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #141)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 12:55 PM

182. Twaddle

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:40 PM

128. Thanks for posting. Fun thread, indeed. K&R

 

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:40 PM

129. I see the checks are being issued again.

It had gotten a bit quiet here lately; glad to hear they turned the Paypal account back on.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #129)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:46 PM

132. Careful now,

you might be accused of stalking and slandering him, and he might have to take action against you.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #132)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:45 AM

142. As I said above . . .

 

I have repeatedly stated that I am not an agent of any government. What I write here are my own opinions, and I am not taking direction from anyone to do so, least of all any government or agency of any government.

Are you, on the other hand, prepared to publicly state the same? Are you, Mr. GGJohn, a government agent or under the direction of or working for anyone who guides your posting here at Democratic Underground?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #142)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:53 AM

163. No, what you're posting is the opinion of the Kremlin transmitted by

their propaganda "news", makes one wonder what your true agenda is here.

Why do I need to state anything? I'm not the one posting pro Kremlin propaganda here.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #163)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:29 AM

168. Then you are calling me a liar?

 

Because I have repeatedly said I am not in any way working for or even advised by any government, not ours or any other.

Well?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #168)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:50 AM

177. Take it any way you want to. eom.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #129)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:50 AM

143. I understand what you are suggesting, Codeine.

 

The historian Gilbert Doctorow, who is quoted in the article I posted a portion of above, explains the rationale behind his type of attack:



There is something "McCarthy-ite" about the Western mass media stance on Moscow, since it lacks both pragmatism and objectivity. Furthermore, the attempts to draw a comprehensive picture of what is going on in Russia trigger suspicions that those who do not share "mainstream" views on Putin are on the Kremlin's payroll.



I don't work for any government, do you?


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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:14 AM

138. Defense contractors like GE and Lockeed sponser most of the gasbag programs on Sunday

 

That is why John McCain and Lindsey Graham will never go away even though nobody will vote for them. The internet is anonymous and I think most hawks here are neocon posers, who supported W during the Iraq war. The establishment is corrupted in both parties so they go along with the charade. Having said that, the emergence of Isis, and the obvious links to the Syrian opposition and the Saudis, discredits the shit out of them and gives credibility to Putin and his media apparatus. I listen to sputnik and rt regularly. They maybe Russian state media but they are so much more sensible than the corporate media hacks.

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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #138)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:56 AM

144. I agree with you on all your points . . .

 

And I am appalled by the fact that I have little option but to turn to Russian news sources to get something even approaching fair and honest reporting about what my own government is doing internationally.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #144)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:09 AM

147. Get a room, you two.

Doesn't the Kremlin have some guest bedrooms in the basement or something?

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Response to moondust (Reply #147)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:12 AM

148. Ha!

 

What a circus. Maybe the TOS needs an update to get rid of crap threads like this one.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to moondust (Reply #147)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:18 AM

150. I do not work for or under the direction of any government or agency . . .

 

Are you prepared to publicly state the same? Or should I say, can you publicly state the same?"

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #150)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:32 AM

154. Sure.

I don't work for anybody. I'm retired. Total freedom! Answer to nobody!

I am curious why you or anybody else would choose to invariably promote the preferred Kremlin story line using known Kremlin propaganda channels to the exclusion of all other news outlets if you were not being somehow compensated for it. Maybe you just share the same manly-man crush on the bare-chested Pootie-Poot that so many Russians seem to have fallen for. ???

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Response to moondust (Reply #154)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:31 AM

169. I am not "promoting" anything . . .

 

I am only reporting on and hoping to have meaningful, polite discussions on stories I find fascinating. You should have no problem with that. Riight?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #150)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:13 AM

158. Objectively viewed, all of Western media sources think Putin is an asshat.

 

You have 2 propaganda outlets that posit otherwise.

Now if one were to maintain a truly objective viewpoint, which analysis of Putin would you think is more likely to be correct?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #158)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:33 AM

170. Better look around a bit more.

 

Just friendly advice, take it or leave it.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #170)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:46 AM

175. The friendly advice I have for you is to also look around.

 

Your sources for pro-Putin stories are not welcome here by the majority. If you want to contribute to this site, I would suggest (in a friendly manner) that you find something else to do with your time.

Because your position that all of Western media and the majority of DUers are biased is not believable. You can continue with this farce that everyone simply doesn't understand you if you want. But your value to any intellectual discourse will be nil.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #150)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:56 AM

164. Oh, we're quite sure you don't.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #164)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:33 AM

171. Then quit suggesting that I do . . .

 

As you have repeatedly on this string alone!

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #171)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 11:01 AM

180. Maybe you missed the sarcasm smilie?

Or maybe you don't understand what it means, which would be the more likely reason for your post.

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Response to moondust (Reply #147)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:28 AM

167. Ames Iowa is a long way from the Kremlin

 

but I am frigging sure your within blocks of pnac headquarters, on a daily basis. Your position is identical to theirs reguardless of whether you claim to hate them.

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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #167)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:35 AM

172. Since I have no idea what "pnac" might be . . .

 

I am at a loss to reply meaningfully.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #172)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:25 PM

183. Google is your friend, in case you have forgotten the cast of 2000 - 2008

You can't really be that clueless about recent US history.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #183)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 06:50 PM

194. I know nothing regarding whatever it is you're talking about . . .

 

You'll have to explain.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #194)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:04 PM

198. That doesn't surprise me in the least, as I suspect it doesn't surprise others here. eom.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #172)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:30 PM

184. I was replying to moondust not you

 

Last edited Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:54 PM - Edit history (1)

It was a response to the "get a room in the kremlin," comment. The pnac stands for "Project for a New American Century" They are the flagship neocon organization that outlined the plan for regime change in Syria, Iraq and Iran over 15 years ago. It was founded by the husband of Obama's State Department Secretary Victoria Nuland, and other senior neocons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #184)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 06:52 PM

195. My mistake . . .

 

As to the Nuland's dreams of empire: I had heard that. My question is why does she remain a top level State Department official?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #195)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 06:55 PM

196. Because she didn't do what you allege she did. eom.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #196)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:29 PM

208. What he alleges without having the least idea about PNAC, apparently. Or so he says. Must've forgot.

Or possibly have been elsewhere at the time. Or had his mind on higher things.

One of life's mysteries.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #208)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:36 PM

212. I suspect his culture doesn't know what PNAC is, or a certain paymaster

hasn't been keeping their employees up to date.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #212)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:39 PM

214. Yet Sputnik keeps going around and around...

... maybe someone's hoping the resulting dizziness will be disorienting.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 08:53 AM

155. k&r

Thanks. Truth cuts like a knife. NGU. Actual liberals are a rare thing in 2015.



"The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican."-Barack Obama

“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”-CIA Director William Casey

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:06 AM

156. Lol thanks Vlad!

 

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 11:14 AM

181. For me, Doctorow has gone too far.

Using subjective, emotionally-charged terminology like "bashing" is not objective reporting, but judgmental. He's as bad as the "presstitutes" he decries; he's no different.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #181)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:13 PM

203. Being on the receiving end of any amount of not totally unrelated "bashing" here . . .

 

I think he may be justified in using that terminology. Don't forget, Mr. Doctorow is undoubtedly getting veritable truckloads of "bashing" himself for the principled stance he has taken against the current pervasively negative attitudes about all things Russian.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:54 PM

186. another_liberal...

I give you credit for having the courage to post something positive about V. Putin.

But it's not going to get any traction here. Just ad hominems, muddying the waters, distractions etc. It's all part of the script, which you'll notice is all part of a pattern. I think they just fill in the blanks. You would think that those who post such tripe would have more pride of ownership in what they write. They must be paid well.

Vladimir Putin and, by extension, PM Sergey Lavrov, are the only sane individuals we have on the world stage at the present time. And I say this because I read Putin's speeches and listen to Lavrov's press conferences. If you asked those who "bash" to evaluate what is said, they couldn't do it.

Sad, really, because I work in the public school system. Any high school senior would be embarrassed to write such drivel.


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Response to truth2power (Reply #186)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:20 PM

188. tell us something positive about Putin

in your own words, you know, live up to what you wrote there.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #188)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 05:41 PM

190. ..

I concur with Chris Hedges' POV on being arrested for civil disobedience. I'll borrow it, here...

"It's more time than I wish to donate..." in this case, arguing endlessly with people who haven't done their homework.

Here's Putin's Valdai speech, October, 2015:

http://www.stankovuniversallaw.com/2015/10/putins-speech-at-the-valdai-international-discussion-club-october-22-2015/ (scroll down)

FM Lavrov's press conference (in English):

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151001/1027860407/lavrov-press-conference-after-70-unga-session.html (You expected it, maybe, on CNN?)

Read/Watch and evaluate.

You're welcome.

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Response to truth2power (Reply #190)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 05:47 PM

191. in your own words, remember that thing you just wrote about taking ownership of what you write?

doesn't apply to you apparently.

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Response to truth2power (Reply #186)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:33 PM

189. your post helps give context to another post of yours:

truth2power (8,215 posts)
1. Good. It was an illegitimate govt anyway. ..

Sorry about Ms. Nuland's luck.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=791624

I wish it explained this one though, perhaps it does:

truth2power (8,215 posts)
5. A person is an anti-Semite for asking a public official if they're a dual citizen of Israel?

Who knew?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6811404

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #189)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:07 PM

199. Seriously?

 

How much time did you spend cherry-picking those out of context? I suppose I should be flattered, but I really feel a sort of pity for you. You actually went back and read all of those two-year-old posts?

Oh well, it takes all kinds of people to make a world, doesn't it?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #199)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:13 PM

204. You seem to have a problem reading,

those posts weren't yours, they were truth2powers' posts.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #204)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 07:51 AM

219. I guess that explains why the excerpts did not seem familiar . . .

 

If the poster who offered them would state his meaning instead of just instructing me to read a collection of old posts, that would help greatly to facilitate our discussion. I do have a life, you know.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #199)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:01 PM

216. It took less than 5 minutes

Just looking on DU no less.

Your post actually reminds me to point out that finding these kinds of posts from you or the other one is trivial when there are enough of them.

When things are a one-off or something crazy is really hard to find I just assume such posts if they exist aren't representative.

But if they often post such things or supportive posts in threads saying such things -it's probably exactly what they think.

What wouldn't you be proud of rather than ashamed of your posts?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #216)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 07:46 AM

218. What is your point . . .

 

If you have one?

Are you accusing me of something? If so, lets hear what it is.

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Response to truth2power (Reply #186)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 06:29 PM

192. You actually respect Putin

more than Obama?

only sane individuals we have on the world stage at the present time


What the fuck are you doing on DU then?

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Response to edhopper (Reply #192)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:01 PM

197. I did not say that, nothing like that . . .

 

Stop putting words in my mouth, ed. This is not the first time I have had to tell you that either.

The truth is, I do "respect" both men, though for almost entirely different reasons. On a basic level, one has to acknowledge that both have managed to become leader of their respective countries. That alone is worthy of considerable "respect" from anyone who has even a minimum of understanding regarding what strength of character, intelligence, and perseverance that requires.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #197)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:08 PM

200. I was responding to truth2power's post

Not you.

But will say respecting someone just because they took power in a country is inane.
There is a list of Country leaders a mile long that don't deserve respect. Starting with your pals ally, Assad.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #200)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:22 PM

205. My apologies. Someone I have had words with uses your same icon.

 

I will be far more careful next time.

As to your point: I disagree. However one may rise to the leadership of a major world power it is an accomplishment worthy of respect, perhaps not praise or support, but definitely respect.

Also, I don't even know President Assad. He is not my friend just because I argue against our country going to war with his. He is the officially recognized head of a sovereign member nation of the Untied Nations, that is undeniable.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #197)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:09 PM

201. Two words, one letter....

"George W. Bush" respect that if you can.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #201)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:26 PM

206. Good point.

 

He qualifies as the, "Exception which proves the rule."

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Response to edhopper (Reply #192)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:34 PM

210. One wonders, doesn't one.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #210)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 11:41 PM

217. "only sane person on the world stage"

truly mind boggling.

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Response to another_liberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 06:38 PM

193. LOL!!!!

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