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EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:05 AM Nov 2015

America is weak.

America is weak, but not because of Obama or Trump or ISIS or even because of the Iraq war...

America is weak because it is so easily scared and manipulated.

And until Americans realise that - like some guy once said -"the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" America is at risk...from itself.

Those of us with a brain in our heads and a willingness to fight for America need to start pushing back - hard - at the fear mongering, and the racism and xenophobia, and - most importantly - the fear.

All of those things are being pushed around by two sorts of people:

- cynics who want to manipulate Americans
- cowards

You know that old saying, when you see a guy with a sports car, that, "he's compensating"? Well the same is true about soooo many Americans that project hatred and bigotry and xenophobia and intolerance: They compensate. They act incredibly aggressive and puff out their chests, BECAUSE they're scared.

Stand up to them and make your country strong by pushing back against fear and the cowards and cynics who are foisting it on our society.

Our ability to survive - and thrive - is contingent on our ability to look at the future without fear.

58 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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America is weak. (Original Post) EdwardBernays Nov 2015 OP
I love America bravenak Nov 2015 #1
Then don't hate or try to take Bernie down( your words) darkangel218 Nov 2015 #3
So Bernie=America now? 72DejaVu Nov 2015 #4
There's what is, and what should be. PatrickforO Nov 2015 #26
Ouch! SammyWinstonJack Nov 2015 #13
Me too--it's easy to criticize here. Not so much in other places, I've noticed. nt MADem Nov 2015 #51
I agree. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #2
America's weakest link is its gun humping cowards Skittles Nov 2015 #5
Have you seen the OP's favorite group? nt valerief Nov 2015 #34
Have you seen the posts the OP makes in their favorite group? Glassunion Nov 2015 #38
And I just read an article in the HuffPo that we are ripe for fascism Cary Nov 2015 #6
Contrast craven America with even-keel Europe and the difference is pretty stark. Surya Gayatri Nov 2015 #7
Good post. My parents are English, and we visited London frequently in my childhood. cwydro Nov 2015 #23
Weak is only a symptom nolabels Nov 2015 #8
I don't know EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #19
Sorry, maybe more apt word would be ignorant. nolabels Nov 2015 #56
Yes we collectively lost our sh*t underpants Nov 2015 #9
indeed EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #16
All you need to do is detox from the matrix BelgianMadCow Nov 2015 #10
You make a brilliant point but your prescription is not universal tech3149 Nov 2015 #15
Come visit Europe EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #17
Well said Edward, thanks for the on-the-money post! Scuba Nov 2015 #11
I fear the possibility of a Ted Cruz or Trump becoming president. livingonearth Nov 2015 #12
That is real cause for fear. Especially Cruz SammyWinstonJack Nov 2015 #14
the antidote EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #18
I think Trump's scarier than Cruz Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #55
Don't tell that to my friend Rei yuiyoshida Nov 2015 #20
We did far more damage to ourselves after 9/11... Wounded Bear Nov 2015 #21
I said the same thing EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #24
That's why I'm supporting Bernie Sanders Le Taz Hot Nov 2015 #22
"Land of the free and home of the brave" = False advertising. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #25
Comrade, please. Rose Siding Nov 2015 #27
Scene from Newsroom says it all Va Lefty Nov 2015 #28
Edward, you mistake human behavior for American. Hortensis Nov 2015 #29
You'd be surprised EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #31
"No other culture is like American culture and many of its issues(eg gun violence)are uniquely..." EX500rider Nov 2015 #37
Not sure EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #39
So you mean "uniquely American" if compared to other cherry picked European countries.. EX500rider Nov 2015 #41
Yeah the OP has a weak argument at best imo. Rex Nov 2015 #45
No EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #46
again EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #47
You just can't call it "uniquely American" if more then half the countries.. EX500rider Nov 2015 #49
"We're better than Somalia in gun violence!!!" Quite the goal dream... LanternWaste Nov 2015 #52
Yes ... EX500rider Nov 2015 #53
What I meant, Edward, is that all people are born Hortensis Nov 2015 #57
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #30
Wrong, so wrong. Our government is weak, only held together by the Executive branch. Rex Nov 2015 #32
not true EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #36
That was not my point, humans are easy to scare and disturb. Rex Nov 2015 #42
I don't mean its genetic EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #43
And I mean it is genetic. Rex Nov 2015 #44
I know EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #48
Well sure everyone has their own culture, but Americans are neither more nor less scared Rex Nov 2015 #54
What Americans? Just because the pols and teevee say we're afraid doesn't mean we are. valerief Nov 2015 #33
Spend any amount of time EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #35
I blame the RW media for all this prouddemfromaustin44 Nov 2015 #40
Me too. How do we curtail their bs flamingdem Nov 2015 #50
Then we need a candidate to tell us that and that will make us strong Township75 Nov 2015 #58
 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
3. Then don't hate or try to take Bernie down( your words)
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:07 AM
Nov 2015

Because he spent his whole life trying to make America better.

PatrickforO

(14,704 posts)
26. There's what is, and what should be.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:23 PM
Nov 2015

Bernie equals what should be.

I'm supporting him all the way, but I fear it may be too late.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
6. And I just read an article in the HuffPo that we are ripe for fascism
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:33 AM
Nov 2015

The anti-government stuff is what makes us weak and it is all fear driven.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
7. Contrast craven America with even-keel Europe and the difference is pretty stark.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:56 AM
Nov 2015

U.S. chest thumping and saber rattling begin minutes/hours after some outrage in the States or at U.S. interests overseas.

European leaders calmly comfort the victims, reinforce security perimeters, and openly encourage citizens to go about their business, thus denying the terrorists their desired outcome.

I'm astonished at some of the responses to threads I've posted about the present wave of atrocities in Europe.

Case in point, this remark in a thread about Brussels being on lockdown:

It's sad. It must be terrifying to live in Europe these days.

They are constantly under threat.


Talk about PROJECTION!!!

What SO many Americans fail to understand is that Europeans have been living under the specter of terrorism for the last 40 years. (IRA, ETA, Bader Meinhof, East German STASI, Italian and Greek extreme-left terror groups, etc. etc.).

Not only have Europeans lived to tell the tale, but they have managed to double the size of the original EU, create a single currency to compete on money markets, and bring several countries into the democratic fold.

Their ancient and venerable cultures have stood the test of time and will continue to do so.
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
23. Good post. My parents are English, and we visited London frequently in my childhood.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:07 AM
Nov 2015

We were there during an IRA bombing. My parents never stopped me from traveling on the Underground (which I loved), and they never restricted my movements around the city in any way.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
8. Weak is only a symptom
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 08:02 AM
Nov 2015

A symptom of stupid

To some, i too might be stupid but what scares me is that there are people a lot less informed who are sure they have the answer. They don't even understand they are acting out of fear. They are so brainwashed by the infotainment industry they actually think that's how the world is. That's scary

They will vote for a Trump or a Hillary, buy and carry a gun around and only associate with certain types of people because that's what they were told to do by the infotainment industry. They are out there, just look around

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
19. I don't know
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:51 AM
Nov 2015

I kinda refuse to believe that many Americans are stupid. People want to feel good and they want easy solutions, but if that makes you stupid, then anyone that buys an iPhone is stupid, or anyone that drives an automatic transmission car is stupid, etc., etc. We all have what we care about and what we dedicate our mental space to, and we all have solutions that seem OBVIOUS to us, even if they seem ridiculous to others...

I'd rather think - that is, I choose to believe - Americans have been lied to and manipulated and don't have a lot of context with which to make informed decisions. But, like programmers say: garbage in garbage out. Feed people something better and Americans will be better, because they're no more intrinsically good or bad or smart or stupid as creatures than people in any other country.

Part of the solution is information, but part is people engaging with people that they disagree with - face to face - and talking sense.

So engage with that uncle or grandfather or co-worker or neighbour and proudly defend what you believe. If everyone did that - instead of shouting or sniping online, America would be better - to some degree - almost overnight.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
56. Sorry, maybe more apt word would be ignorant.
Tue Nov 24, 2015, 08:08 AM
Nov 2015

In any case in the lexicon of many of my Latino co-workers and many others around with that same heritage sometimes see the word 'stupid' as being a deep pejorative or just a slight. Yet, also it's often a call to action in defense and many times a call to counter-offense.

To me, the word stupid just indicates how things look and or going. I haven't really ever considered anybody stupid. After you known anyone for while (with empathy of course). One realizes that their choices and actions are mostly driven from past experiences and logical reason from days past. Moreover the crux or kernel of the idea i was trying to get at is rooted in the incessant need to follow others. To me, that's where the problem starts

If we had more people who wanted to think about things before they acted instead of just follow the other guy, there would be a much more coherent world around us.

I have an ipod, two iphones and a ipad. I purchased them because they are dependable, work most of the time and seem best for storing and listening to music.

As for automatic transmissions, larger diesel trucks are using them as standard equipment because they are better on fuel mileage and they are also good for drivers because it frees them up to do other complex things that are required when driving a truck.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
10. All you need to do is detox from the matrix
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 08:26 AM
Nov 2015

pull the plug on mobile, tablet, PC and TV for a while. I did it with my kids and it worked miracles. They are sensitive and scare easily.

I have to concur that it would seem too many are overcome with fear. I have little hope for the US and I think you all need to wake the f, sorry, up.

The context for what some guy once said: Inaugural speech of FDR


If I read the temper of our people correctly, we now realize as we have never realized before our interdependence on each other; that we can not merely take but we must give as well; that if we are to go forward, we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline, because without such discipline no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective. We are, I know, ready and willing to submit our lives and property to such discipline, because it makes possible a leadership which aims at a larger good. This I propose to offer, pledging that the larger purposes will bind upon us all as a sacred obligation with a unity of duty hitherto evoked only in time of armed strife.

tech3149

(4,452 posts)
15. You make a brilliant point but your prescription is not universal
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 09:26 AM
Nov 2015

Too many of the people who are victims of this irrational fear need more information and more exposure to the world not less. The problem is the most visible and easily available information sources are corrupted by self interest.
I had done the detox of an old friend back in 2004. It wasn't just a matter of disconnecting him from the matrix of propaganda but exposure to a broader base of information. Unfortunately that short term dose of reality will not hold against the continued wave of indoctrination.

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
17. Come visit Europe
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:32 AM
Nov 2015

And be amazed at how much less the media sucks, and how that lowers the volume and the stress... and lessens the power of nightmares pushed by politicians and the media...

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
18. the antidote
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:45 AM
Nov 2015

to Cruz and Trump et al is hope and acceptance...

Think how quickly the fear and anger towards gay marriage dissipated once it was clear to everyone that no one really cared... that it wasn't a big deal...

I know it sounds bonkers on the face of it, but the opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference.

You wanna destroy ISIS? Stop caring about them. They literally can't kill as many Americans as cars do in a month... and if that's all they have then they're impotent... which is the reality...

We are going to hurt ourselves endlessly more trying to wipe them out then they could hurt us...

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
55. I think Trump's scarier than Cruz
Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:54 AM
Nov 2015

I don't think that Cruz's level of demagoguery approaches that of Trump.

Wounded Bear

(59,339 posts)
21. We did far more damage to ourselves after 9/11...
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:04 AM
Nov 2015

than any terrorist could ever do. It pretty much continues unabated.

Good for ratings, you know.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
22. That's why I'm supporting Bernie Sanders
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:07 AM
Nov 2015

and why I support the populist movement that will exist and thrive after the Sanders campaign. It's the ONLY way we're going to wrest out country back from the oligarchs and utterly stupid people.

Rose Siding

(32,623 posts)
27. Comrade, please.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:28 PM
Nov 2015

Racists, hysteria and a messed up media are not America. What's weak is your surrendering the whole nation's reputation to them.

America is great because of her ability to.........EVOLVE.

I love that theme running through so many of Obama's speeches- the way he attaches even exceptionalism to the concept of continually forming a 'more perfect union', improving ourselves.

It's ironic, right? Some of us love -or should at least respect- a country that grows and changes, but not a person. tsk tsk

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
29. Edward, you mistake human behavior for American.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:41 PM
Nov 2015

All our faults are found in people around the globe, exaggerated or suppressed by their cultures, but we are truly not only one people under the skin but under the skull bone as well.

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
31. You'd be surprised
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:12 PM
Nov 2015

Culture is real.

No other culture is like American culture ano many of its issues (eg gun violence) are uniquely American.

France just had it's 9/11 and yes it's reacting in some similar ways to how the US reacted after 9/11, but the degree of the reaction matters. France isn't going to invade another country or hand over all its civil liberties for years.

Neither is Europe as a whole.

France is also not turning it's back on Syrian refugees.

Yes, there will be consequences but culturally th French are not as weak - ie scared - of the other as Americans.

EX500rider

(11,008 posts)
37. "No other culture is like American culture and many of its issues(eg gun violence)are uniquely..."
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:18 PM
Nov 2015

Not really since firearm homicides in the US are below the avg per country:

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
39. Not sure
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:00 PM
Nov 2015

. .where you dug that chart up, but no other developed country have anywhere near the gun violence that America has.

OK lol. I just realised you're comparing America to places like Zimbabwe and Honduras. Lol.

What that chart ACTUALLY shows you is that the VAST majority of countries have a dramatically lower level of gun violence.

And there's NO country with a median income approaching the US's with anything close to the same level of gun violence.

Stupid chart is stupid.

EX500rider

(11,008 posts)
41. So you mean "uniquely American" if compared to other cherry picked European countries..
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:17 PM
Nov 2015

Got it.
Compared to ALL countries worldwide the US is both below the median and avg for homicides:


EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
46. No
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:41 PM
Nov 2015

I mean compared to any vaguely similar country.

Comparing America to Zambia, Uganda and the Central African Republic, we look great... is that your point?

Compare it to any country vaguely similar and you'll see the reality you're desperate to avoid.

The US gun homicide rate is 3x that of the worst European country.

Here's the countries that are worse than the US, so we can see exactly who we're better than

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
47. again
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:47 PM
Nov 2015

Are these the countries you want to aspire to?

I find it hilarious that you'd compare the US to every African country to prove how sae it is... and yet you ignore every country to the left of America on that graph - other countries like America, because when you compare like for like you realise we're at the very bottom of the list.

This is the sort of ridiculous graph that makes people say all statistics are lies...

EX500rider

(11,008 posts)
49. You just can't call it "uniquely American" if more then half the countries..
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:09 PM
Nov 2015

....in the world are worse.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
52. "We're better than Somalia in gun violence!!!" Quite the goal dream...
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:23 PM
Nov 2015

"We're better than Somalia in gun violence!!!" Quite the ambitious goal to strive for. Sounds like the NRA's newest, award winning bumper-sticker.

(I completely understand your desire to discount direct correlation against the more accurately comparative liberal, industrialized west countries we've much more in common with-- as that particular reality doesn't conform to particular dogmatic biases)

Good luck!

EX500rider

(11,008 posts)
53. Yes ...
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:39 PM
Nov 2015

......and less homicide then these vacation "paradises":

Costa Rica, Bahamas, Jamaica, Aruba, Maldives, Fiji, Cuba, Bermuda, Guadeloupe, Virgin Islands, Caymans, Panama, etc....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
57. What I meant, Edward, is that all people are born
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 03:43 PM
Nov 2015

with some mixture of liberal, conservative, libertarian personality and are then acted on by environment, or culture.

Wherever you go on this planet, though, in general liberals are going to be the ones who enjoy meeting and chatting with you, traditional conservatives are going to be pleasant but more cautious and inclined to complain about change, social conservatives are going to give you the cold fish eye and make up something bad about you to justify giving you the wrong directions to your hotel, and libertarians will grab the opportunity to drive you the long way around and consider that people like you deserve to pay more for not checking a map, while people like them deserve to prosper.

VERY overgeneralized, very oversimplified, and we come in infinite mixtures, but you get the idea.

Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
32. Wrong, so wrong. Our government is weak, only held together by the Executive branch.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:19 PM
Nov 2015

The people of this country are strong, just not well informed by design. Most people are easily scared and manipulated, that is not something special to America.

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
36. not true
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:37 PM
Nov 2015

Seriously, I've spent a LOT of time in Europe now (I've lived outside the US for over a decade) and the fear is nothing like it is in America. The media doesn't have anything like the same grip on the population.

The weight and stress generated by the media is unlike anything else I've since experienced. And I hope to never experience it again.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
42. That was not my point, humans are easy to scare and disturb.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:32 PM
Nov 2015

Again, it is not just an American issue. YES our media is crappy and out of control, but we still have instincts that control us more than rational thought imo.

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
48. I know
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:49 PM
Nov 2015

but that's unrelated to what I'm saying...

If the entire world lived in America, then yes, everyone would be the same in this respect, but they don't.

And because they DON'T it doesn't matter what they would be if they did, but what they are.

And America is unique in this respect. As are the people that inhabit it.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
54. Well sure everyone has their own culture, but Americans are neither more nor less scared
Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:13 AM
Nov 2015

than the typical person. America is a most militant nation on the planet. You are getting a lot of issue confused, but that is okay.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
33. What Americans? Just because the pols and teevee say we're afraid doesn't mean we are.
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:22 PM
Nov 2015

That's how propaganda works. (Of course, you would know that from your name.)

Sure, some numbnuts are afraid. Most Americans just don't give a shit anymore. They're too worn out from being fucked over.

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
35. Spend any amount of time
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:35 PM
Nov 2015

on right-wing sites and you'll see the fear... better yet look at all the states trying to block refugees, or who are suddenly obsessed with "Muslims" again... it's just under the surface, this fear, and the second ANYTHING even vaguely scary happens people FREAK out. And the media goes into full hyperventilation mode.

Here's a representative poll:

"Some 54% of total respondents said they oppose taking in refugees,according to a new poll from the Washington Post and ABC News..."

http://time.com/4122938/refugees-syria-america-poll/

That's almost completely driven by fear.

 
40. I blame the RW media for all this
Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:02 PM
Nov 2015

They've exaggerated the terror threat to epic proportions, and got many Americans to buy into their lies without question. A sad state of affairs..

Township75

(3,535 posts)
58. Then we need a candidate to tell us that and that will make us strong
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 03:49 PM
Nov 2015

Not some of this weak shit we have to still deal with.

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