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Mon Nov 16, 2015, 06:50 AM

Without understanding our history there will be no real foreign policy success, and no end to terror

I see a lot of posts discussing Iraq and 9/11 and ISIS as if they occurred in a vacuum...and that's likely because US citizens are - as a rule - so ignorant of their own countries foreign policy through the years that is essentially did.

And guess what: unless Americans make a REAL effort to understand what their tax dollars are funding, and have been funding, for decades, this isn't going to stop.

The US has lied to itself for too long.

I know people think it's too depressing or difficult, but hey, imagine how depressing it has been for all the families whose lives have been ruined by immoral US activity that's been happening for decades. If any other country treated America the way it's treated the majority of the world, Americans would consider that country evil. And yet Americans believe that it is some sort of shining beacon of morality.

From coups, to assassinations, to mass civilian killings, to funding and propping up dictators, to medical experiments on it's on civilian population, the US has a LOT to answer for ... and the REST OF THE WORLD knows all about this stuff - even if we choose to be ignorant.

Americans aren't bad - individually - but at the same time, they ARE RESPONSIBLE for their government and it's representatives worldwide.

So my fellow Americans, go learn your history, and start demanding that your politicians acknowledge it.

How sad is it that no one - no politicians, no media outlets, no one - had the courage to discuss the US roll in Iran for decades, in context of the Iran nuclear deal. How pathetic are we as a nation that we don't even google the history of the US in Iran before we latch onto fear mongering BS our politicians spew - from both sides of the aisle. And those lies that we're told, that we support tacitly, those are the cause of so many of our problems. In other words, it is literally our fault.

But if we educated ourselves and forced out politicians to be honest, we could also be the solution.

Make yourself a force for real change: learn your own countries history and the history of it's foreign policy.

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Reply Without understanding our history there will be no real foreign policy success, and no end to terror (Original post)
EdwardBernays Nov 2015 OP
politicman Nov 2015 #1
EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #2
politicman Nov 2015 #3
EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #4
malaise Nov 2015 #5
EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #6
malaise Nov 2015 #7
EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #8

Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Nov 16, 2015, 07:05 AM

1. Just wanted to ass something that I think is important for people to know

 

I agree with everything you say, but I will also add that Muslim extremism that produces terrorism will never ever be eradicated.
People need to understand this, that no matter how many wars or bombings or assassinations the West conducts, they can never fully extinguish Muslim extremism and its associated terrorism.

The reason is simple, because Islam itself relies on the Koran, a book which contains the words of God. And because the Koran is written in a certain way, it can be interpreted in anyway that the reader feels fits his agenda.

For example, you can have a self styled cleric teaching his small group of followers the interpretation that he wants to teach them, and if these small group of followers trust him then they will believe his interpretation.

Basically you can have some self styled cleric anywhere in the world convince his small group of followers that blowing up a bunch of innocent people is a form of defending the religion thus they get access to heaven guaranteed.
This interpretation is obviously wrong, but if a motivated individual calls himself a cleric and can get access to impressionable people, he can convince them.

The same way that a cult convince its small group of members to do things that leader of the cult wants them to do.


So you see, as long as you can have a individual Muslim call himself a cleric and use the religion as a way to form his own little cult, then you can never eradicate completely Muslim extremism. And because these little Muslim cults think they are going to heaven if they kill innocents, then you can never fully stop terrorism from these individuals.

Just wanted to add that in, its something the world will have to live with, the hope should be to educate enough people that a self styled cleric cannot get access to enough impressionable people to form his own Muslim extremist cult.

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Response to politicman (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 16, 2015, 07:16 AM

2. ACTUALLY

while you're not wrong about the cult aspect, the history of how Islam was perverted is astonishing and essential.



The West is largely responsible for the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, which lead to al Qaeda which led to ISIS. It also agreed to essentially fund Wahhabist madrasas in Saudi Arabia in exchange for exclusive oil contracts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb

We funded and armed and in many cases trained the people we're now fighting, and if we didn't, we set up the dictators that led to the revolutions which led to the rise of religious extremism which we're now fighting. In some countries, like Saudi Arabia, we did both.

Americans as a rule don't know why anything is happening and so cling to leaders that sell them simplistic visions of the world. It's self-destructive behaviour.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 16, 2015, 07:34 AM

3. I agree but...

 

Oh believe me I agree America has caused so much damage within the Mid-east, but the fact remains that as long as a psychopath can label himself a cleric and convince impressionable people that his interpretation of the Koran is the right one, then there is always the potential for terrorism from extremist Muslims.

Even if somehow we managed to get America to stop its hypocritical policies and managed to convince 99.9% of Muslims to follow a peaceful path, there is always the risk that one psychopath can convince impressionable people to carry out a terrorist act in the name of Islam, and we would be on the road to increasing extremism again with the resulting backlash against all Muslims from people in the west who want to blame the religion for the act of a little Muslim cult.

What's needed is American to stop its meddling in the mid-east and for us western people to treat any future terrorist acts as a form of crime that get handled by the local police and just acceot that it happens the same way that crime happens.

Any over reaction against the Muslim religion for the act of a psycopath building his own little Muslim cult will just get us back to square one again.

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Response to politicman (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 16, 2015, 09:08 AM

4. the same is true

for almost any religion... the US has a long history of Christian leaders that are in fact terrorists... and Asian religious leaders and African leaders are the same, with no specific bias towards any one religion...

BTW: there's 1.5 Billion Muslims and most of them ARE peaceful. The vast majority of muslim violence is actually aimed at other muslims as well, not the West.

In fact the vast majority of terrorism is not connected religion:

"As Europol, the European Union’s law-enforcement agency, noted in its report released last year, the vast majority of terror attacks in Europe were perpetrated by separatist groups. For example, in 2013, there were 152 terror attacks in Europe. Only two of them were “religiously motivated,” while 84 were predicated upon ethno-nationalist or separatist beliefs."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Mon Nov 16, 2015, 10:26 AM

5. Every Westerner should read your post

Not just American citizens. If people knew what their governments did on behalf of the 'special interests' while posing as democrats at home, they'd all be in the streets. The French in Africa and Asia were no different.
Indeed when they realized they could not win in some African countries, they destroyed everything.

There are no saints here whether their religion is capitalism/read Xtianity or Muslim.

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Response to malaise (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 16, 2015, 11:31 AM

6. This IS true, but...

It's important to realise that not every country in the same (eg Ireland and America) when it come to bad behaviour. Looking at the impact the US has had in South America and the Middle East in the last 60 years alone is enough to make you wanna tear up your passport... :/

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 16, 2015, 02:24 PM

7. You forgot the Caribbean

and never forget who downed that Cubana flight in 1976. The planet is full of barbarians.

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Response to malaise (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 16, 2015, 06:56 PM

8. It's everywhere

The CIA is one of the biggest terrorist organisations on the planet and have been for decades... which is of course a shame as we all pay them to do their dirty work...

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