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Tue Nov 10, 2015, 09:58 AM

Analysis Of Kentucky Election Results Indicates Fraud

snip

But the evidence that the Kentucky governor’s race was rigged doesn’t stop there. Another elections watchdog, Richard Charnin, who holds a Masters Degree in Applied Mathematics just published preliminary results of his analysis of the cumulative vote shares in the Kentucky governor’s race, finding that the “cumulative vote shares indicate likely fraud.”

In explaining the analysis process, Charnin [url=https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/]wrote[/url]:

“I downloaded precinct vote data for the largest 25 KY counties and five smaller counties (view the spreadsheet and the graphs below). Downloading all 120 counties is a time consuming process, so I expect to download about 20 more over the next few days. The objective is to view the effects of county/precinct size on the cumulative vote share trend. Since the largest counties are usually heavily Democratic, the consistent pattern of Republican Governor candidates gaining share from small to large precincts is counter-intuitive. On the other hand, there is virtually no change in vote shares in smaller, heavily GOP counties.”

snip


http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=174856

102 replies, 14660 views

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Arrow 102 replies Author Time Post
Reply Analysis Of Kentucky Election Results Indicates Fraud (Original post)
Dem2 Nov 2015 OP
think Nov 2015 #1
Stevepol Nov 2015 #6
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #51
think Nov 2015 #54
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #56
Rilgin Nov 2015 #69
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #72
Rilgin Nov 2015 #80
wordpix Nov 2015 #62
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #73
rhett o rick Nov 2015 #84
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #89
think Nov 2015 #92
tecelote Nov 2015 #95
Travis_0004 Nov 2015 #101
Scuba Nov 2015 #2
Stevepol Nov 2015 #11
avaistheone1 Nov 2015 #17
LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #20
JHB Nov 2015 #50
SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #82
Jack Rabbit Nov 2015 #37
Dem2 Nov 2015 #3
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #38
Stevepol Nov 2015 #61
Dem2 Nov 2015 #65
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #68
Dem2 Nov 2015 #71
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #74
Dem2 Nov 2015 #77
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #81
Dem2 Nov 2015 #83
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #66
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #91
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #94
Dont call me Shirley Nov 2015 #4
heaven05 Nov 2015 #9
Omaha Steve Nov 2015 #12
Stevepol Nov 2015 #14
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #34
heaven05 Nov 2015 #59
LittleGirl Nov 2015 #93
G_j Nov 2015 #15
mountain grammy Nov 2015 #24
G_j Nov 2015 #26
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #70
beerandjesus Nov 2015 #55
heaven05 Nov 2015 #60
The Wielding Truth Nov 2015 #76
aggiesal Nov 2015 #22
heaven05 Nov 2015 #58
Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #29
heaven05 Nov 2015 #57
Le Taz Hot Nov 2015 #35
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #41
Le Taz Hot Nov 2015 #44
csziggy Nov 2015 #67
Raster Nov 2015 #88
heaven05 Nov 2015 #98
Raster Nov 2015 #99
heaven05 Nov 2015 #100
Delphinus Nov 2015 #5
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #43
get the red out Nov 2015 #7
GoneFishin Nov 2015 #8
DFW Nov 2015 #10
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #45
MynameisBlarney Nov 2015 #13
Fuddnik Nov 2015 #39
Botany Nov 2015 #16
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #46
Maineman Nov 2015 #18
RussBLib Nov 2015 #19
2naSalit Nov 2015 #23
yeoman6987 Nov 2015 #52
valerief Nov 2015 #21
mountain grammy Nov 2015 #25
HassleCat Nov 2015 #27
elmac Nov 2015 #28
zentrum Nov 2015 #30
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #31
Bonx Nov 2015 #49
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #53
i-should- be-working Nov 2015 #63
SunSeeker Nov 2015 #32
pa28 Nov 2015 #85
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #86
SunSeeker Nov 2015 #87
lostnfound Nov 2015 #33
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #48
Fritz Walter Nov 2015 #36
Freddie Stubbs Nov 2015 #40
L. Coyote Nov 2015 #47
Faux pas Nov 2015 #42
colsohlibgal Nov 2015 #64
Union Label Nov 2015 #75
Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2015 #78
Blue Owl Nov 2015 #79
Pharaoh Nov 2015 #90
billhicks76 Nov 2015 #96
lonestarnot Nov 2015 #97
blackspade Nov 2015 #102

Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 10:02 AM

1. America deserves verifiable & transparent electoral vote counts. It is shameful that we must still

 

deal with potential voting tabulation manipulation year after year.

And do we ever hear politicians speak out. Of course not...

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Response to think (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:04 AM

6. Amen!!

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Response to think (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:30 PM

51. "do we ever hear politicians speak out ..." ?? Not about B.S.

You won't hear anyone speak out about this because it is pure bullshit.

In fact, if the election was rigged, this bullshit is then a perfect misdirection. And where there is misdirection, there is a reason to look at what the other hand is doing, to look elsewhere first. Richard Charmin's CVS model is useless because it introduces the bias that is then called probative, a fatal flaw in statistics. CVS may be a valid model for selling books every election!

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #51)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:53 PM

54. I'm referring to speaking out about making election results transparent.

 

Like the situation in Kansas. If there is no problem why not allow an audit?

http://ksn.com/2015/08/24/kansas-seeks-to-block-release-of-voting-machine-paper-tapes/



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Response to think (Reply #54)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:23 PM

56. By "situation in Kansas" you mean the lawsuit.

And you answered your own question with: if there is no problem. If someone shows there is a problem, there will be an audit. But don't expect an audit because of a JKF conspiracy blog or something equally absurd, like the CVS model.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #51)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:19 PM

69. A real question

If I read this article correctly, the bias you are referring to is something about expected voting patterns in large districts. The article claims fraud because the large urban districts did not conform to predictions.

Your criticism is that the predictions are really just predictive opinions so the deviation from the opinion does not prove fraud.

This particular vote was Kentucky. My question is whether the "bias" that the claim is based on is observable in other states. If most of the country's urban districts have previously exhibited this bias, the fact that this election did not exhibit this bias does seem at least probative of fraud.

If you could explain the "bias" for me in simple language that I could understand and answer whether other districts in other states do conform with this predictive bias, this would be very appreciated.

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #69)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:29 PM

72. My criticism is the guy sorts the data by the criteria making the difference appear in the data

and then says that the difference he made appear in the data with his sort proves he is right about hypothesis.

No, we are not talking about opinions. We are talking about data analysis. I take the same data and sort order differently and the trend is different. If you do it in Wisconsin by alphabet, the W's trend red so the CVS plot curves red. In another state Washington County is liberal and huge so the same sort trends the other way. If you believe in CVS method, are you now going to argue you know which party steals elections in which state? NO. And you shouldn't expect people to buy your book if you say you can prove that Washington County is really conservative and the stolen election you detected proves it.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #72)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 06:44 PM

80. still not understanding

Can you explain to me like I am a three year old.

His hypothesis?

The data he is using? I assume its demographics in the actual voting population but it could be something different?

The specific sort criteria he is using that you say is basically cherry picking a result?

Last, I assume that the "proof" he is offering is that analyzing some demographic factor that he later sorts on that you would predict a different voting result than actually occurred. Is that the basis of his claim (not your criticism of the claim which is based on the sort criteria).

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Response to think (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:04 PM

62. this needs DOJ investigation, let's go! F'ing GOP

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Response to wordpix (Reply #62)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:31 PM

73. No, all it needs is one minute of thinking, and it all falls apart.

Read the thread as posted so far.

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Response to think (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:49 PM

84. I think a good share of America doesn't give a crap. I don't think the Democratic Leadership

 

gives a crap.

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Response to think (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:25 AM

89. I heard recently that California is working on voting machines that will have software

for which the codes are publicly owned or something similar. It's bound to happen.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #89)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:31 AM

92. Thank you. That sounds interesting. Will have to check into it.

 

:Thanks again!

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Response to think (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 02:46 AM

95. Absolutely.

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Response to think (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 09:25 PM

101. And how do you propose we do that?

 

The kentucky secretary of state overseeing elections is a democrat. I doubt she is rigging the elections to help a democrat win.

I'm fine with having a bipartisan panel oversee the election, and it seems like no democrats have stepped forward to demand a recount, so I will trust their judgment since they have insider information.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 10:05 AM

2. Paper ballots, hand counted, in public, cameras rolling, nothing less.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:30 AM

11. I agree, I agree, I agree, I agree -- FULLY with each point.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:51 AM

17. Absolutely.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:12 PM

20. The only problem is getting those paper ballots in the ballot box from the precinct

to the courthouse where the county clerk can count them. When I was growing up in south Arkansas it was a known fact that the deputies transporting the ballot boxes from the black precincts would open them up remove the ballots and replace them with different ballots and reseal the boxes with the county seal. And then take them to the court house. It was always in the local paper that ballots were found discarded by the side of the road.

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Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:27 PM

50. Nothing's perfect, but methods of defrauding paper ballots...

...such as the one you describe are easily understood and well known, as are ways of countering them (aren't always implemented, but known). Whereas electronic fraud methods are more esoteric and don't leave hard evidence like the discarded paper ballots.

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Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 07:21 PM

82. Count posted on precinct door, with cameras rolling,

before the ballots leave.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:01 PM

37. +1

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 10:54 AM

3. This seems pretty compelling

I wonder if anything will result from these investigations? Opinions?

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:03 PM

38. Exactly the opposite if you are trained in statistical analysis, then it is truly COMIC and tragic

at the same time. Comic because of how people fall for the con and tragic because people fall for the con.

The CVS model is pathetically flawed, as any Statistics 101 student should be able to explain. You cannot just introduce a bias and then claim the bias proves your point.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #38)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:47 PM

61. I don't understand what to heck you're talking about.

I've used statistical methods in a number of classes. By analyzing the results of an election and noting that the pattern of the voting results are different from the pattern of results we would expect seems to me to be highly logical and based on common sense. It has nothing to do with the way a program is used and changed by subsequent programs or alterations to the existing program. What bias has any of the statisticians "introduced" by looking at the patterns and distributions of the votes? What bias have they introduced by looking at the anomalies between the pre-election polls and the final results or the anomalies between the expected vote in urban versus rural precincts. This seems to be Common Sense 101 and has nothing whatever to do with the particular configuration of the programs that created the anomalies. There are a thousand ways to rig an election. Figuring out that the election was most likely rigged or compromised and using common sense methods to find out what the vote actually was is quite straightforward. Get the paper. Hope that the paper has not been tampered with. Then HAND-COUNT THE PAPER BALLOTS in a transparent and open way. If the vote count was wrong, try to determine how the scam was managed and who did it and send the guys to jail as the 8 guys from Clay County KY were sent to jail for rigging and altering the machines over a decades long period to assure that Repubs stayed in charge in Clay County.

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Response to Stevepol (Reply #61)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:46 PM

65. That makes 2 of us

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #65)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:15 PM

68. If only it was only two ...

If I take a data set of domiciled couples and sort them by gender, I don't expect that the CHS (cumulative height share) will be equal. I expect the males to have the larger share of the result. But, if I the population by another criteria, say zip code instead of gender, the two groups can be expected to accumulate near the same height total. After all, the couples will not be separated by the sort since they share zip codes. So, it is this simple: if you sort by gender first, don't expect us to buy your book about how the men are stealing inches from the women, and its happening everywhere, some sort of vast right wing conspiracy.

That said, don't expect me to lower my belief in the vast right-wing conspiracy either because of an illogical and simplistic misdirection or to lower my ultimate faith in democracy or determination to vote and to influence politics. I'm not falling for voter suppression, no matter how nuanced the propaganda!

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #68)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:27 PM

71. I posted an article

And I thought it seemed compelling, and asked for opinions.

Clearly you disagree with the articles conclusions, but the topic makes you nuts and you appear to come across as smug. In spite of that, I get what you're saying and since I've never been big on voter suppression being a major problem, I'm going to take your word for it and assume that the particular analysis used here is not all that convincing. You see, you know the players involved, most of us don't and have other things that we occupy our time with. Try lowering yourself the the level of the average genius - the sarcasm is unnecessary.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #71)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 05:01 PM

74. Without a bit of analysis or, apparently, whose bidding you ar doing by spreading this.

Hey, I'd rather do something else instead of whack-a-mole-ing this dead horse over and over again. But, don't attack me for doing what you did not.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #74)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 05:56 PM

77. Ahhh, so I'm supposed to know that this analysis is incorrect

I need to be just like you. I'll work on that.

I imagine your head would explode if you saw how popular this was on the site where I originally saw it.

A lot of us idiots out there. It's just awful.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #77)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 07:08 PM

81. Did you search DU to read other threads about this person

who is twice banned from DU? This debate has a deep history on this domain, as does election integrity investigation. Did you expect we were a bunch of know nothings?

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #81)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 07:29 PM

83. Shoot the messenger

Never heard of him or you before this. Thanks for the information, I read it off the frying pan just before it hit me in the face.

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Response to Stevepol (Reply #61)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:52 PM

66. Except "the pattern of the voting results are different from the pattern of results we would expect"

IS NOT the case. If you sort the data points by a non-random criteria you cannot expect a random result. It is absolutely absurd to expect otherwise.

I've done the analyses over and over again ad nauseum (this refutation too), and Charmin's CVS points to all kinds of different patterns in the results depending on which variable is the sort order. If you pick the one that agrees with your hypothesis, then assert that the correlation wasn't the product of your purposeful bias, you are conning yourself for certain and everyone else too if intentional (no matter if the motivation is food on your own table or nefarious misdirection).

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:30 AM

91. How do you explain that Kentucky voted for a Republican governor by 9 points and then for

Democrats for the other offices?

Bad personality of the Democratic candidate for governor?

I don't know much about the race, but I have heard that California is planning on having vote-counting machines for which the code is publicly owned. That will end all these questions about whether the votes are fairly counted.

California is planning to make a lot of changes in terms of the voting machines and vote counting.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #91)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 02:41 AM

94. I don't. I commented on part of the article, the CVS idea.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 10:58 AM

4. Democratic leadership should be screaming about this, but.....Crickets.

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Response to Dont call me Shirley (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:22 AM

9. precedent?

 

Last edited Wed Nov 11, 2015, 12:09 PM - Edit history (2)

2000 rove/cheney/bush coup orchestrated by Katherine Harris and the jebbie in fla.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:32 AM

12. ^^^ X2 ^^^


K&R!

OS

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:38 AM

14. There are probably a hundred other examples of equally preposterous results.

You're probably aware of many other examples, but if not, you or any reader may want to see Bradblog's archives on the subject.

I just pasted "Voting Machine Problems" into the search browser for Bradblog's archives and got 25,200 hits. It's not taking place in a vacuum. Maybe Bernie by forcing more attention to politics in general and to the corruption of our political system more specifically will make it more likely that the (so-called) leaders of the Democratic (so-called) Party will actually do something. It would be nice if the DEMANDED that our vote counting be VERIFIABLE. But they're going to have to DEMAND IT and not just pussy-foot around.

In case you're not aware of the site: http://www.bradblog.com/

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Response to Stevepol (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:58 PM

34. Brad is a journalist, not an election integrity investigator himself, a reporter

And one must use some judgement about the actual work underlying the reports.

Even though I developed the final proofs of the degree of vote-switching fraud in Ohio 2004, Brad wrote me that he did not have time to real my report to Conyers, et.al., too busy. Go figure!

Yes, there are plenty of elections with untrustworthy results, and all e-voting elections are, of course, but that does not mean any old book or method is going to withstand intellectual scrutiny. I can't believe how easily people on this board are duped because they want to believe this stuff no matter if it is just donate-button or book-selling con or the real deal.

Too bad we lack an educated-in-statistics (or critical thinking) population.

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Response to Stevepol (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:27 PM

59. thanks

 

for the blog

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Response to Stevepol (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 02:18 AM

93. I've followed

Brad's blog for years...he's been on this ever since at least 2004. Do a search on the blog and he gives you a great list of the Actual Republican Voter Fraudsters that have actually been arrested and convicted of voter fraud. Love that guy.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:39 AM

15. flashback..

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0101/06/se.02.html

Congressional Black Caucus Protests Electoral Vote Count

Aired January 6, 2001 - 2:00 p.m. ET

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And if you're just joining us, we're going to go straight to the press conference we told you about with the Congressional Black Caucus with regard to the -- all right, we're working on getting audio for you in just a moment. And while we're doing that, I will recap just a bit.

REP. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON (D), TEXAS: ... black caucus, and I'm going to ask Mr. Hastings to give his opening statement, and I'll return.

REP. ALCEE HASTINGS (D), FLORIDA: Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Today was a very solemn day, and the remarks are that many of us were not permitted, regretted by us all. Had I been given an opportunity to go forward with an appropriate objection, I would have indicated that because of the overwhelming evidence of official misconduct, deliberate fraud, and an attempt to suppress voter turnout by unlawful means, I felt the necessity -- as do my colleagues from the Congressional Black Caucus, and other members of the House of Representatives -- to object to the kinds of errors against democracy, the holy grail of democracy, that were permitted in the state of Florida.

And we felt that they should not be tolerated, as they would not be tolerated in other countries. Indeed, we should not tolerate them in America.


I would have said to Vice President Gore that Harry Truman once said that what is popular is not always right, and what is right is not always popular. What we were doing here today is right. I hope all of our colleagues and the American people see it that way. And that is why we raised our objection. And it's a proud moment for the conscience of the House of Representatives, for those of us that are representing the entirety of the Congressional Black Caucus, in the presence of our chairlady, and the members here assembled, we stand proudly to say that we did what was right.

JOHNSON: Forty years ago, during the civil rights movement, I marched for justice with a firm belief that my son would not have to march, in order to utilize his voting rights. Much to my dismay, 40 years later, I find myself marching again, but this time for my grandchildren, so that they will not have to march in order to be afforded the same rights.

How long will we settle for injustice in America? How long will we have to fight to perfect the 15th Amendment? How long will we have to struggle for something that should be every American's birthright? On election day, 100 million Americans went to the polls to make their voices heard. Those voices want to be heard still. No hyper- technical manipulation of election laws should derail the intent of the voter.

We cannot sweep under the carpet the claims of first-time college voters who say they registered to vote, had voter registration cards in their hand, but when they were not allowed to vote at the polls, because their names were not on the roll, the lines were busy all over the country, where they tried to call to clarify their registration.

We cannot sweep this under the carpet, the cries of those who were incorrectly removed from the polling places in Florida by an inept Texas company hired by Mr. Bush's brother.

We cannot ignore believable stories of police intimidation, questionable activities by poll workers and simple ineptness by volunteers at the precincts. We cannot ignore what we saw with our own eyes on television: polls closing on voters in St. Louis, un- American voting lines in Pennsylvania and incredibly complex ballots in South Florida.

There is overwhelming evidence that George W. Bush did not win this election, either by national popular vote or the Florida popular vote. As members of Congress charged with defending the constitutional principles of this country, it is our duty to challenge this vote.
<snip>

REP. CARRIE MEEK (D), FLORIDA: We dare not have it repeated. We dare not have the Tilden and the Rutherford Hayes situation repeated again, because it disenfranchised our people at that time.

This will disenfranchise -- it already has -- our people. We don't want that continued. We will always come out. We will always fight. We don't care who is it there.

We are very disappointed that our senators did not stand up and support us today. We helped to elect those senators. They will hear from us again, because we feel very disappointed that they didn't say we want our African-Americans, and our disjointed people who were not able to vote, to have someone in the halls of Congress to say, yes, give them a chance to debate this issue, so that the world could see what is happening here.

We have had our votes nullified. That's why we're so sad. They were nullified by defective voting machines, nullified by discriminantly distributed and targeted machinery, election machinery, in our neighborhoods. The votes were nullified by a purge of voting lists, undertaken by direction from a campaign that retained the equivalent of electoral thugs.

I was there. I saw exactly what happened. I was chased by these thugs. I was called a communist by these thugs, a socialist by these thugs, many of them who were not even citizens of this country. That's what happened in this campaign in Miami-Dade, Florida.

So that we were illegally struck from the voting list by a process that classified thousands of our people as felons. We were nullified again by deals that were cut in cities -- cut by the winning campaign, with our leading authorities in our cities. We were nullified by ballots that were printed in such a way that reasonably thinking citizens could not know for whom they were voting. That's why we're here.

Everyone should have a right to know how they're voting, and for whom they're voting. We were nullified again, by a secretary of state, who has already been given a very big accomplishment by this administration. She authorized her authority to prevent valid votes from being counted. So, it nullified the thing for us.

All that is left for us now, as the Congressional Black Caucus and as citizens of this country, is to exercise our First Amendment rights, while we still have it, and before it is further undermined by a politically dominated Supreme Court.

We exercise that right today to protest against this ill-chosen nomination. We exercise our right to petition our government for our citizenry to receive a redress of grievances. So, I speak for the majority of Americans, particularly African-American Americans, who did not vote for the new president-elect, but who now must live under an administration that appears to award spoils to the victors, even when the electoral process has been so clearly corrupted.
thank you

----

We're going to bring in our congressional correspondent Chris Black once again.

Definitely not business as usual today, Chris.

CHRIS BLACK, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not exactly. Things were going along as expected. The District of Columbia votes were recorded, and then Chaka Fattah, ironically a member of the black caucus himself but one of the two House tellers working on this Electoral College vote today, got to Florida. He announced the 25 Electoral College votes. Al Gore said, is there an objection? And there were a lot of them. A dozen members of the Congressional Black Caucus, one after the other, rose to their feet to object to the votes from Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL GORE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For what purpose does the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Deutsch, arise?

REP. PETER DEUTSCH (D), FLORIDA: To make point of order.

GORE: Gentleman will state his point of order.

DEUTSCH: Mr. President, we have just completed the closest election in American history. There are at least...

GORE: The gentleman will suspend. The chair is advised by the parliamentarian that under section 18 of title 3, United States Code, no debate is allowed in the joint session. If the gentleman has a point of order, please state the point of order.

DEUTSCH: Mr. President, there are many Americans who still believe that the results we are going to certify today are illegitimate.

GORE: The gentleman will suspend. If the gentleman from Florida has a point of order, he may state the point of order at this time. Otherwise, the gentleman will suspend.

DEUTSCH: I will note the absence of quorum and respectfully request that we delay the proceedings until quorum is present.

GORE: The chair is advised by the parliamentarian that section 17 of title 3, United States Code, prescribes a single procedure for resolution of either an objection to a certificate or other questions arising in the matter. That includes a point of order that a quorum is not present.

The chair rules on the advice of the parliamentarian that the point order that a quorum is not present is subject to the requirement that it be in writing and signed by both a member of the House of Representatives and a senator. Is the point of order in writing and signed not only by member of the House of representatives, but also a senator?

DEUTSCH: It is in writing, but I do not have a senator.

GORE: The point order may not be received.

HASTINGS: Mr. President, and I take great pride in calling you that, I must object because of the overwhelming evidence of official misconduct, deliberate fraud and an attempt to suppress...

GORE: The chair...

HASTINGS: ... voter turnout.

GORE: The chair must remind members that under session 18 of title 3, United States Code, no debate is allowed in the joint session.

HASTINGS: Thank you, Mr. President.

To answer your question, Mr. President, the objection is in writing, signed by a number of members of the House of Representatives but not by a member of the Senate.

Thank you, Mr. President.

WATERS: I rise to object to the fraudulent 25 Florida electoral votes.

GORE: Is the objection in writing and signed by member of the House and a senator?

WATERS: The objection is in writing, and I don't care that it is not it is not signed by a member of the Senate.

REP. BOB FILNER (D), CALIFORNIA: I have an objection to the electoral votes from Florida.

GORE: Is the objection in writing? Is it signed by a member of the House of Representatives and a senator?

FILNER: No, it is not in writing, but I rise in solidarity with my colleagues who have previously expressed their objection.

GORE: The chair thanks the gentleman from Illinois, but -- hey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACK: There were 13 objections in all, 12 from minority group members in the House of Representatives, last one saw was Bob Filner, who's a Democrat from California, a former professor, a big supporter of Al Gore, and clearly was just moved by the emotion of the moment.

They were all gavelled down. It was a great irony for the vice president. Here were some of his biggest supporters in the House of Representatives. He was clearly sympathetic, understood what they were trying to do, but he went right by the book. There was no debate allowed under the law that governs this joint session. There is also -- no objection can be heard unless it is signed by a House member and a senator.

Not a single senator would join members of the Congressional Black Caucus, much to their dismay. About a dozen members of the caucus walked out in protest, to protest the Florida vote, and then had a press conference in the gallery.


<snip>

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Response to G_j (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:18 PM

24. They showed integrity and courage

and were duly ignored by the American media. The coup was complete.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:20 PM

26. Coup is the correct term nt

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Response to G_j (Reply #26)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:20 PM

70. A coup overthows the whole government usually.

This was a stealing of the executive. I call it the Bush Junta when referencing the validity issue.

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Response to G_j (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:19 PM

55. ^^^^ THIS ^^^^

But hey, by then, the Swarm had decided it was all Nader's fault, so it's all good.

And fuck the Congressional Black Caucus anyway, right? As long as they obediently vote for Hillary.

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Response to G_j (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:33 PM

60. thank you

 

I have had my memory jogged, again. Basically the only substantive protest to that travesty of a GE.

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Response to G_j (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 05:22 PM

76. Heartbreaking. Democracy went out with a whimper.Who will fight to reinstate it?

Bernie. If my vote counts I will vote for Bernie Sanders!

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:15 PM

22. I believe you mean Catherine Harris? n/t

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Response to aggiesal (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:26 PM

58. you are right

 

mistake, all mine. Just had P.Harris on the brain for some reason.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:25 PM

29. Katherine Harris.....

 

nt

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:25 PM

57. thanks

 

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:59 PM

35. And not ONE Democratic Senator

would meet with the Congressional Black Caucus who needed only one Senator to contest the election. Not one came out to meet with them. Not one. I've no doubt they were instructed not to meet with the CBC so, in this, they were "just following orders."

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #35)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:06 PM

41. Boxer joins challenge to Ohio's vote result

Boxer joins challenge to Ohio's vote result

Election is certified after ensuing debate
By Toby Eckert January 7, 2005

WASHINGTON – Two Democratic lawmakers raised a rarely used objection yesterday to delay Congress' certification of the 2004 presidential election results.

Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., and Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, D-Ohio, challenged the results from Ohio that clinched President Bush's re-election victory. The dramatic move did not threaten the election's outcome, and neither lawmaker said that was their aim. But it forced a two-hour debate in the House and Senate over voting irregularities in Ohio, the need for further voting reforms by Congress and whether Democrats were raising legitimate issues or merely refusing to accept the reality of Bush's win.

Republicans denounced the challenge, only the second such move since 1877.

Without Boxer's backing, Tubbs Jones' motion would have failed – a lack of Senate support doomed a similar effort to challenge Florida's vote after the 2000 election – and the electoral votes would have been counted in a joint session of Congress without formal debate.

...........

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #41)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:08 PM

44. 2000

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #9)


Response to heaven05 (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:22 PM

88. Katherine Harris

Katherine Harris
Member of the United States House of Representatives
Katherine Harris is a former Secretary of State of Florida and former member of the United States House of Representatives.
Party: Republican Party

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Response to Raster (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 12:07 PM

98. like I said earlier

 

thanks for the clarification on the name. Situation of 2000 GE remains the same. De facto Republican Coup d'etat. Please forgive my misspelling of K.Harris's first name................so please, all the perfect humans out there, I have been informed on K. Harris's first name and my mistake AND edited my post, give it rest. geez

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #98)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 05:37 PM

99. no worries. I responded to your post and at that time, I saw no others.

So nothing to forgive. I not-so-fondly refer to her by her other name: Cruela de Harris, because she looks just like the evil Disney character that wants to murder puppies for their fur.

And yes, Florida 2000 was a coup d' etat. Harris was one of the Florida state Chairpersons for the committee to elect Bush*/Cheney*, and ran the Florida campaign from her official Secretary of State offices in the Tallahassee statehouse.

Also, not to forget that she and lil' bro Jeb specifically targeted persons in areas and neighborhoods most likely to vote for the Democrat Al Gore in their illegal and insidious Florida voter roll purge that removed thousands upon thousands of legitimate, presumably Democratic-leaning voters from the voter registration rolls. That was only one of the many dirty electoral shenanigans all designed to hand the Presidency over to Gee-Dumbya* and Darth Cheney*.

WE SHOULD HAVE RIOTED IN THE STREETS. The damage done to the United States - and the planet - by Cheney*/Bush* will haunt all of us for decades.

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Response to Raster (Reply #99)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 09:20 PM

100. I remember everything you said

 

as true. I remember reading somewhere about this huge number of ballots, from neighborhoods mentioned by you, found on the side of a fla. road. 81,000 or something obscene like that. It was sickening and let me know that we, the citizens, have no real power in matters such as this. Have a good one....

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:00 AM

5. I hope this

gets legs ...

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Response to Delphinus (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:07 PM

43. It won't, pure BS. It is ignored for a reason, poppycock can't fly.

Hope is not substitute for knowledge, and unnecessary where knowledge exists.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:06 AM

7. Scary shit

The polls were close going in, and I could believe Bevin scratching a win, but the margin was bizarre! Vote fixing is nothing new in Kentucky, we've just gone a bit higher tech than buying votes with bottles of Bourbon.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:19 AM

8. It's an integral part of rightward leaning personalities that winning by any means is ok.

But they know it is taboo to admit it. And they find plausible deniability to be a good friend when they are involved something fishy.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:28 AM

10. One wonders if the Justice Department has any jurisdiction?

If this goes unchallenged and uninvestigated, Republican fraudsters will feel entitled to do something similar to what they did in Ohio in 2004, and other swing state with Republican governors will follow.

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Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:10 PM

45. Present them with anything credible, and they will do what they are supposed to. But this

CVS model is not enough to con the Justice Department. It might fly with the uninformed who want to believe, but an educated statistician will throw this stuff out immediately.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:35 AM

13. Well...

Is anything going to be done about it?
Or are the Dems just going to let ANOTHER election be stolen from them and do nothing but wring their hands and say how wrong it is?

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:04 PM

39. Not a thing.

We took significant evidence of election fraud to the chair of the Florida Democratic Party in 2003, a former Blue Dog Congresswoman.

She completely ignored us.

I guess she had more important things to do, like running her lobby operation with the chair of the Republican Party of Florida.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:39 AM

16. Republicans cheat ... end of story

Brad Blog ...... KY's Governor's race a 14 point swing in the vote.

http://bradblog.com/?p=11430

Beth Clarkson Wichita State U. Professor of Math and Stats

http://www.kansas.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/article32685087.html

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Response to Botany (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:13 PM

46. Yes, very disconcerting and in need of a real investigation, not in need of obfuscation

with a false model. This requires objective analysis, not a flawed model that just covers up irregularities.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:05 PM

18. As I suspected.

Read my tag line below.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:09 PM

19. regardless of the polling methods

when you have pre-election polls tilting heavily one way and then the election results go heavily the other way, THIS IS A YELLOW FLAG that requires some investigation.

Why is it so out of bounds to suspect election fraud? If we cannot trust the ballot, this "democracy" is a total farce.

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Response to RussBLib (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:18 PM

23. But, but, but...

it's okay if you are republican!

It's a bright red flag and Dems aren't allowed to make that call because it's the favored cudgel of the RWNJ collective in order to cram through voter suppression laws. It just goes to show that if you do something completely disgusting often and blatantly enough it will become the norm establishing a platform from which other acts can be launched, thus we have prime examples like tRump and his popularity.


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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #23)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:33 PM

52. I would have thought if they were going to cheat,

 

they'd get rid of Allison as she has potential in the future but they didn't. Very strange.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:14 PM

21. That's what electronic voting is for! Easy fraud. nt

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:20 PM

25. I believe the GOP will have this perfected by the 2016 election

while American corporate media is completely on board.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:24 PM

27. Republicans are right & we need voter ID laws.

 

Because the four illegal Mexicans who somehow registered to vote in Texas obviously moved to Kentucky and rigged the voting machines in favor of the Republicans. Oh, almost forgot... It's Obama's fault.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:25 PM

28. republicans lie, cheat and steal every day

 

its who they are and ruining this once great nation is their goal.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:40 PM

30. Another stolen election

...that the Democrats will do absolutely nothing about.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:47 PM

31. The OP should read "Charnin says...." That does not make it true. Opposite is the case, NOT TRUE.

Ignore Richard Charnin. Charnin is wasting his time, running the same old flawed CVS model on yet another election and producing the same result as always because his method is flawed and not even real statistical analysis. Charnin is known for his conspiracy ideation.

I get tired of having to explain this over and over and over again to the uninformed and statistics-challenged world. In Republican dominated areas, the precincts are larger on average, so if you first sort by size, your sort produces the effect, and you have proven only that you can create a bias in the data by sorting it with a chosen criteria. It is a book selling trick, but I don't see a single statistician anywhere agreeing with such an obvious mistake.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #31)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:19 PM

49. So the analysis in the OP is the actual fraud.

Good to know.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #49)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:51 PM

53. It matters not who screams FIRE in a smokey theatre

and if the person yells "the fire is over here" and it is really over there, one should not then conclude there is no fire. Elections have been rigged and we know to the decimal degree by how much. Small wonder misdirection is a profitable cottage industry.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #31)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:06 PM

63. the size of a precinct should not correlate

 

To a republican biased voting pattern. Historically such has not been the case.

I can cite papers that explain the CVS technique, can you cite similar regarding your belief that CVS is not a valid analytic technique?

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:52 PM

32. What were the EXIT polls in KY on the Gov race. That is the real tell.

I can't find any. Were any done?

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #32)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 09:48 PM

85. I looked for them myself. Couldn't locate any.

I know some media organizations began adjusting the results or stopped doing them altogether because the findings had become so far detached from the actual results.

At one time exit polls were the gold standard for detecting fraud. They've become so inaccurate that New York Times writers too young to remember now treat them as something akin to reading goat entrails.

Exit Polls: Why They So Often Mislead
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/05/upshot/exit-polls-why-they-so-often-mislead.html?_r=0


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Response to pa28 (Reply #85)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 09:54 PM

86. Exit polls are sampling. After the count the stats are not inferential.

So if there is a problem it can be detected with accepted methods.

Exit polling has to be assessed too for its utility, margin of error, reliability of professionals, coverage, representation, etc., and needs to be manipulated to adjust for sampling needs.

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Response to pa28 (Reply #85)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 10:26 PM

87. Thanks. Oh well.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:55 PM

33. Let me guess.. Central tabulators?

I'm convinced or at least suspicious that those are what they used in Florida in 2004. Maybe other places too, but I only analyzed and plotted Florida. Counties with certain central tabulator software had a consistent shift toward Bush, in spite of the fact that Florida had registered > 100,000 new Democrats for that election. And in spite of Bush's remarkable, ahem, popularity.

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #33)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:18 PM

48. Some Florida charts and data here.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:00 PM

36. We should bring in election observers

Jimmy Carter has enough on his plate.

Let's ask Myanmar's Aung San Suu Kyi if she wouldn't mind helping us restore the democratic process here.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:05 PM

40. It is quite curious that losing candidates never seem to believe this

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #40)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:16 PM

47. Candidates know better, they understand that this is just internet woo and booksellers at work.

It is interested what follows on false premises. You say the candidates don't have an interest in this. Of course not, they know better than to believe bullshit on the web. But, that does not mean they are naive to election integrity issues!

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:07 PM

42. They can't beat us

so they cheat us.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:30 PM

64. It Happens Over And Over

It is obvious fraud and vote manipulation is going on, the vast majority of the time in favor of republicans, but the Democratic Party just takes it. It is bizarre.

Bush Kerry 2004 was very similar, as was the senate vote that cost Cleland his seat. And Anonymous swears they blocked an attempt to fix the 2012 election for Romney, it explains Karl Rove's meltdown on Faux News that night.

Who trusts computers and servers? Nobody and it makes one wonder about the democrats, why they won't raise the issue.

As has been put forth in this thread we do need to go back to paper and foolproof custody and counting.

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 05:11 PM

75. This needs to get proof so hard even the the thugs can't deny

Then I can shove it any right wing fanatic's face and gloat!

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 06:04 PM

78. KFE. Kentucky Fraud Election.



Sorry. You were saying.....

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #78)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 06:19 PM

79. A bucket o' ballots...

n/t

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:29 AM

90. Ditto Wisconsin

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 07:57 AM

96. Time To Do Something About This

 

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Response to billhicks76 (Reply #96)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 08:53 AM

97. Way passed time.

 

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Response to Dem2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 09:49 PM

102. Given the down ticket victories I suspected that this might be the case.

Not that our Attorney General's office will actually look into it.

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