Are we really this desperate to make Russia look bad?

[another_liberal]

Last edited Fri Oct 30, 2015, 08:40 AM - Edit history (1)

I watched the State Department's John Kirby try and explain away questions about the source for recent allegations that Russian air strikes in Syria have repeatedly struck civilian targets, such as hospitals. His utter inability to offer actual sources for those claims was embarrassing for an American who loves his country to watch. Are we really so desperate as to try and excuse our crimes by spreading lies to make someone else appear equally disgusting? Kirby's performance convinces me that this is all a case of: "See folks, Russia does it too! Everybody bombs hospitals. We're not the only ones!"

State Department spokesperson, John Kirby.


US cites ‘press reports’ & secret ‘operational data’ as proof of Russia striking Syrian hospitals

See Kirby briefing video here: https://www.rt.com/news/320102-us-blames-russia-syria/

[hobbit709]

1. Russian can manage to look bad without any help from the U.S.

[another_liberal]

5. So true . . .

But in this case the charges do appear to be nothing but a badly miscalculated misinformation ploy by our Pentagon and State Department.

[n2doc]

2. Yes. n/t

[another_liberal]

6. Yeah . . .

Seems pretty clear.

[LuvNewcastle]

3. War makes all the participants look bad,

mostly because they are.

[another_liberal]

8. No argument from me on that . . .

Albert Einstein said of war: "Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!"

[bemildred]

4. We aren't desperate, we just love bullshit and we don't care where it comes from. nt

[another_liberal]

11. Especially "bullshit" that maintains the Empire . . .

That's usually the kind we sling anyway.

[malaise]

26. It is all about empire

War destroys humanity on all sides eventually particularly since some actors view international treaties and conventions as humbugs.

[randome]

7. It's you who are desperate with your repeated worship of all things RT.

It stinks. An objective observer should be able to find other sources when the majority on the board he frequents see RT as the propaganda piece it is. (Funded directly by Russia, in case anyone doesn't know.)
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[another_liberal]

9. "Worship?"

Really now, is that necessary?

And I thought you were a friend . . .

(sigh)

[LanternWaste]

24. 'Worship' is no more nor no less biased in wording than is the your supposition, 'desperate.'

'Worship' is no more nor no less biased in wording than is the your supposition, 'desperate.' However, I empathize with your need to hold others to higher rhetorical standard...

[another_liberal]

48. Except that our government's transparent lies in this case are clearly "desperate" . . .

I, on the other hand, do not "worship" any news service. It is childishly insulting to suggest I do.

Now do you see my point?

[Caretha]

10. If Kirby was the spokesperson

for the Bush Administration, and spewed this propaganda - DU would be all over this like white on rice. But hey, times they be a changin', huh?

[another_liberal]

12. Just between you and me . . .

It seems not a little like the MIC has staged some kind of stealth coup against our government, and coopted our national foreign policy to serve its own twisted ends. A very scary prospect for the future.

[Rex]

32. The MIC did that decades ago.

This is all about catching up and keeping tabs.

[Octafish]

13. While he's at it, please show us the evidence linking Russia to MH17 shoot down.

No offense, I'd like to see radar and hear radio intercepts -- without the helpful translation.

Matters of war and peace were left to Congress, not the executive, for a reason. This is a democracy, or at least it used to be.

[another_liberal]

14. The last I heard those were also highly classified, secret documents . . .

We're told they can't be made public, so as to protect our "National Security."

[Octafish]

15. Secrecy also covers criminality...

... and those who profit from the same.

Stratfor: executive boasted of 'trusted former CIA cronies'

By Alex Spillius, Diplomatic Correspondent
9:08PM GMT 28 Feb 2012
The Telegraph

A senior executive with the private intelligence firm Stratfor boasted to colleagues about his "trusted former CIA cronies" and promised to "see what I can uncover" about a classified FBI investigation, according to emails released by the WikiLeaks.

Fred Burton, vice president of intelligence at the Texas firm, also informed members of staff that he had a copy of the confidential indictment on Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks.

The second batch of five million internal Stratfor emails obtained by the Anonymous computer hacking group revealed that the company has high level sources within the United States and other governments, runs a network of paid informants that includes embassy staff and journalists and planned a hedge fund, Stratcap, based on its secret intelligence.

SNIP...

Mr Assange labelled the company as a "private intelligence Enron", in reference to the energy giant that collapsed after a false accounting scandal.

CONTINUED...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9111784/Stratfor-executive-boasted-of-trusted-former-CIA-cronies.html

Traitors act like we're "subjects" rather than "citizens." Their bent is plain when they talk about Democrats and democracy, especially.

[another_liberal]

19. Since we can assume the "Intellegence Community" has the dirt on everyone in government . . .

It is kind of hard to see how these people can be stopped. Even their multi-billion dollar annual budgets, though paid for by the American public, are hidden from public view under a "National Security" classification.

[Octafish]

27. Catch-22 and Checkmate all in one.

Who liked to play chess was Allen Dulles, a co-founder of the BFEE.

[TipTok]

17. Do you guys have weekly meetings to go over your notes?

[Octafish]

28. No. Do you?

No one tells me what to write.

Regarding the current bend for world war on behalf of the planet's wealthiest:

Know your BFEE: Merchants of Death

What were you writing in 2005? Not that I'm comparing notes.

[SidDithers]

16. RT. LOL...

Are you really that desperate to make Russia look good?

Sid

[Rex]

18. This is the same posturing that America always takes with Russia.

It didn't change just because the Cold War ended.

[another_liberal]

20. The American MIC feels it must constantly expand . . .

And that American international hegemony must expand with it.

[Rex]

22. I'm not so sure about expanding, but Russia will always be our traditional enemy.

And our rhetoric toward Russia will never change either.

[Sunlei]

21. russia bombs willie-nillie anywhere there are people seen in the thousands of bombed out ghost towns

You can see it in Russia's bragging on their 'state controlled' TV , Russia's drones flying over miles of bombed out buildings.

[2naSalit]

30. ...and that's so different from

what we have here... how?

I realize that RT isn't the best source but what about when they are correct about something? A broken clock is right twice a day after all.

[EX500rider]

35. It's very different..

....the US has very restrictive rules of engagement and uses precise guided weaponry.
The use of “smart weapons” and new surveillance technology (using manned and unmanned aircraft) radically reduced (eventually by nearly 90 percent) the civilian casualties usually referred to as “collateral damage.

Russia has been using mostly unguided dumb bombs with apparently very relaxed rules of engagement.

[2naSalit]

36. So our

"smart bombs" accidentally hit hospitals that we know about or we hit them accidentally on purpose but deny it by saying our smart weapons aren't really as smart as we claim or we hit them on purpose and claim it was an accident? And all those civilians who have been hit over the past 15 years... the same thing there too? Oh and then there's that pesky fact about the extraordinary rendition and torture, GITMO and...

I don't perceive what we do as any better or worse than what we claim others are doing, we just have a more gullible audience for our propaganda/PR campaigns as evidenced by some of the comments made on this thread and elsewhere. The mic is driving our world and we are letting it happen and we even send our younger citizens to do their bidding with bribes and then refuse to pay up when they need to receive the care we promised them. We have a nasty history of doing that for well over a century.

[EX500rider]

37. Hospital wasn't hit by smart bomb.

Last edited Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:15 PM - Edit history (1)

Yes civilians have been hit in the last 15 years....at a rate 90% less then earlier wars.

[another_liberal]

39. What are you suggesting . . .

Last edited Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:00 PM - Edit history (1)

We should feel happy about being somewhat less the savage butchers we were at Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Hardly seems like a bragging point to me!

[EX500rider]

40. No 90% less.....that seems like a good thing to me.

[another_liberal]

41. That depends on two things . . .

First, only if your statistics are even close to accurate. Second, it would still only be true if our rather sizable share of the old slaughter has actually been reduced as much as the average has been reduced, which I seriously doubt. It could well be that we are killing even more civilians (compared to combatants killed) in our recent War Crimes and other outrages; in fact, I think the latter is quite likely.

[EX500rider]

42. No, I'd say unlikely.....

.....for instance in just the pre-invasion aerial bombing of the D-day beaches area we killed more then 20,000 French citizens.

[another_liberal]

44. Perhaps, but in relation to how many German and Axis combatants killed?

We literally destroyed several German divisions in Normandy (largely through airpower) and decimated many more.

[2naSalit]

47. The point you are missing

is that it doesn't really matter what type of bombs we used or whether they are precisely identified by name... we still bombed hospitals and killed innocent people on a regular basis and we imprisoned and tortured, for years, innocent people. That makes us no better than those we chose to demonize for doing much the same thing. Equivocation is just BS in this argument.

Swing and a miss.

[EX500rider]

49. "we still bombed hospitals" Plural? What other hospitals did we bomb?

And yes it very much does matter if you use precisely guided munitions compared to simple dumb bombs as Russia is using in Syria, as you cause a magnitude less in collateral damage, ie dead innocent people.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

23. Fuck RT!

And fuck Russia, too!

This USA bad, Russia good bullshit is getting old.

[FSogol]

34. LOL right on. The Putinistas seem to be having a sad. n/t

[newfie11]

29. US has as much propaganda as Russia

I've listened to this shit from the 50's on.
It never changes. Russia bad, USA good rah rah!

I don't give a shit!

Bring it on so I can add to my ignore list!

[2naSalit]

31. Hey...

that guy looks a lot like Durwood Kirby, any relationship there?

[another_liberal]

38. I knew he reminded me of someone . . .

You may be on to something there.

[NuclearDem]

33. Russia doesn't need any help from the US to look bad.

And what do you mean "we", Kemosabe?

[another_liberal]

45. "We," in regard to what?

You'll have to be more specific.

[KamaAina]

43. I'd like to see him try and explain away questions

about the source for recent allegations that American air strikes in Afghanistan have struck civilian targets, such as hospitals.

[another_liberal]

46. Our leaders have come to believe we really are "Exceptional" as a nation.

They have bought into the illusion that there is no law we are bound by, and no crime is a crime if we commit it, "In defense of our national interests."

[jwirr]

50. IMO no we are not desperate to make them look bad - we

are desperate to keep them as an enemy so that we can continue to fund the MIC.

[another_liberal]

52. Good point . . .

The lure of easy money is what drives our war machine. I'm sure our leaders, both political and military, have their pride at stake too, but it is predominately about the bucks.

[DonCoquixote]

51. the sad part is

we have a GOLDEN chanced to do harm to Russia by doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Let THEM be stuck in a qugamire to save Bassad, which will only make us look better as we can say "see, this is what Saddam would have become." Let the Isis idiots brag about how they used to cut Soviet heads off in Afghanistan, and let them teach the younger Jihadi how they used to do this in the old days, back when they were so good at killing Russians the US trained Osama Ben ladin to do it! Then after the inevitable quagmire, we can say "see, we learned otu lessons about the mid eats war, too bad Russia repeated theirs."

[another_liberal]

53. Fascinating!

And think of all the lives, international prestige and money we would save ourselves by doing so.