This will make your blood boil:

[kpete]

They Knew All Along

Exxon Knew about Climate Change Almost 40 Years Ago
A new investigation shows the oil company understood the science before it became a public issue and spent millions to promote misinformation


Exxon was aware of climate change, as early as 1977, 11 years before it became a public issue, according to a recent investigation from InsideClimate News. This knowledge did not prevent the company (now ExxonMobil and the world’s largest oil and gas company) from spending decades refusing to publicly acknowledge climate change and even promoting climate misinformation—an approach many have likened to the lies spread by the tobacco industry regarding the health risks of smoking. Both industries were conscious that their products wouldn’t stay profitable once the world understood the risks, so much so that they used the same consultants to develop strategies on how to communicate with the public.

Experts, however, aren’t terribly surprised. “It’s never been remotely plausible that they did not understand the science,” says Naomi Oreskes, a history of science professor at Harvard University. But as it turns out, Exxon didn’t just understand the science, the company actively engaged with it. In the 1970s and 1980s it employed top scientists to look into the issue and launched its own ambitious research program that empirically sampled carbon dioxide and built rigorous climate models. Exxon even spent more than $1 million on a tanker project that would tackle how much CO2 is absorbed by the oceans. It was one of the biggest scientific questions of the time, meaning that Exxon was truly conducting unprecedented research.


MORE:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/

[Scuba]

1. I'm sure the President's Justice Department will be all over this.

Or not.

[JackInGreen]

8. Highly doubtful

we must leave all in the past in the past.

You can bet your ass President Clinton will stop em though.....

[jtuck004]

11. Likely will condemn it in the strongest possible language at the next fundraiser. n/t

[imthevicar]

54. Snort.

[hifiguy]

59. A mildly worded letter will be sent,

which the Grand Imperial Poobah of Exxon will use to wipe his ass in his million-dollar executive loo.

Then he'll write some more checks to morans like Cornyn.

This feces are headed for the impeller blades at increasing speed.

And when they hit and Mother Nature takes her wrathful and righteous vengeance it is not going to be pretty.

[sub.theory]

2. It's a conspiracy

There is clearly an ongoing conspiracy to deny climate change. There is universal consensus among scientists that climate change is real, but TPTB will not allow any action to be taken to prevent disaster. We can't even begin to make the changes we needed to a decade or two ago. We're pretty much locked into climate catastrophe at this point and it's anyone's guess where that leads us. Honestly, nothing about this shocks me anymore. But, yeah, it makes my blood boil.

[ladyVet]

5. All you have to do is look at the facts to know it's a conspiracy.

No tin foil hat required.

My question is, just where do these fuckers think they're going to live when it all goes to pot? In domed cities with their cronies? The Elysium solution?

[Cleita]

9. The Elysium solution might be the answer.

There are rumors of underground bunkers these people think they are going to retreat to. It's a bit tinfoil hatty of course, but it makes you wonder exactly what they are thinking and why they think it won't affect them when the the Earth's atmosphere boils away. It would be enlightening if some enterprising journalist could get close to people like the Koch Brothers and find out exactly how they plan on saving their elitist asses once we pass the tipping point.

[Indydem]

14. Atmosphere boils away?

Seriously?

It won't be a 3 degree rise in temperature that does that.

[Cleita]

15. Oh please don't take a little literary exaggeration as scientific fact.

However, once we reach the tipping point, there will be no going back and a lot of the planet will become uninhabitable. That's what is predicted by a majority of the scientific community so in effect our atmosphere could boil away like it did on the planet Venus, which many scientists use as an example. Yes, Venus does have an atmosphere, but one where nothing can live because of the extreme heat.

[Indydem]

17. Or 26 Million miles.

Are you 12? Venus doesn't support life because it is hotter than hell there. No greenhouse effect needed.

http://m.space.com/21346-venus-water-earth-sun-explained.html

Literary exaggeration has no place in a discussion anout science. Take it someplace else.

[Cleita]

18. Is this the science forum? I think not. Maybe you should take it someplace else.

[mindwalker_i]

21. It's important to use descriptions that are accurate

When one says global warming will "boil the atmosphere away, " even intending it as a literary statement, others can point to it and say you're crazy. The implication they make is that the whole issue is crazy, so therefore, it's important to be clear and accurate when describing the effects. The atmosphere will not boil away. It may boil, but it does that now - pockets of heated air rise up in the atmosphere to form cumulus clouds.

What is likely to happen? Significant parts of the arctic and antarctic ice will melt, causing ocean levels to rise and flooding land. America's penis will be drowned (Florida). I still think iit's likely that weather will be more extreme, although there have been scientists who don't think that will happen and I am not a climate scientist. Since climate on the planet is very complex, it's difficult if not impossible to know all the effects of global warming - adding heat to the atmosphere.

But the atmosphere will not boil away.

[Cleita]

22. No. You are not a climate scientist. Nor is the person I replied to. Nor am I.

This was a discussion about where the 1% were going to live when much of the planet becomes uninhabitable (and that is one theory many scientists are holding) not about nit picking terms on scientific speculation. Therefore a little allegorical language can be used to express an opinion.

Why don't you tell me how you are going to live when the temperature reaches 150+ degrees like it has in some parts of the Middle East in July of this year? You know you can cook meat in a slow cooker at that temperature. Tell me how you are going to survive when it's like that all year around. Everyone will not be able to afford year around air conditioning, especially if they are poor because there will increasingly be fewer and fewer jobs because of global warming.

[mindwalker_i]

31. "This was a discussion about where the 1% were..."

It was, but we got sidetracked when you said the atmosphere was going to boil away. It isn't clear that you are using a literary device, and a lot of people would read that and discount the whole issue or argument. Thus, using "literary devices" makes it harder to address the problem.

I'm not disagreeing that climage change/warming are happening, and that it will likely make it very difficult for the human race to survive. It may become impossible to live anywhere other than Antarctica due to high temperatures (see A World Out Of Time by Larry Niven). It also seems possible that with the Arctic melting, the Earth will go into an ice age. Neither of these are conducive to civilization. A big problem in dealing with this is just getting people to admit it's happening, and making wild statements like "the atmosphere will boil away" exacerbates that problem. So it's therefore key to talk about the issue in factual terms rather than exagerating it.

[tex-wyo-dem]

28. Jeez...lighten up....

Literary exaggeration where the writer is trying to exaggerate is done all the time, literally

[Travis_0004]

27. Venus is about 30 million miles closer to the sun

I think that could also have a bit to do with the extreme heat.

[Cleita]

29. Yes, Venus has a reason to be hot. We don't. We have man made global

climate change. The energy industry is pretty much at fault and it's man made. Humanity is the only species that needs manufactured electricity.

[Art_from_Ark]

55. Venus also rotates on its axis ver-r-ry slowly

In fact, a "day" on Venus is actually longer than its year (243 Earth days vs. 224.7 Earth days), so one side of Venus is constantly exposed to the sun for approximately 122 Earth days at a time!

[sub.theory]

16. That's some supervillain stuff, isn't it?

I honestly can't fathom the degree of callousness and greed that would allow someone to destroy the planet. The comparison to the tobacco companies is apt, but this is on an exponentially higher level. Climate change will eradicate entire species. It will result in wars. It will cause starvation. It will be the deaths of millions of people. And for what? So these guys can be insanely rich instead of merely ultra-rich? I just can't understand.

[Cleita]

23. They will in the end destroy themselves unless they have another garden planet lined up

somewhere to destroy.

[Hydra]

47. It's not so much rumors

They themselves were talking up the idea at one point, saying we should all move underground. Of course, I don't think most of us will be invited to such a get together...

[Cleita]

51. Maybe those who mix the cocktails and clean the toilets, but really no one else but themselves. eom

[Duppers]

43. That's been my question too.

They must not give a shit about their grands. The only alternative is that they're dumb as hell and do Not understand the final outcome...Or they think, as a couple of my naive exfriends do, that there'll be some scientific miracle invention.

[jwirr]

61. Bingo - the scientific miracle. We have used science to

invent things for decades with no consideration regarding the side effects because we have always assumed that we could just go out and invent an answer for side effect. Never once did we think we might run into something that we could not handle.

Regarding the article and the proof that Exxon knew years ago. They should be fined and/or forced to use their profits to do the things we should have been doing all this time. Congress will not give us money to find alternative ways so let us use Exxon's money.

[hifiguy]

62. There are plenty of places on the planet

that will remain perfectly habitable. The more northerly landmasses - the most of North America, Siberia, Scandinavia and Northern (European) Russia will be just fine, as will the Andean regions of South America. Same for non-tropical higher-elevation areas in Asia. We are not talking about sea levels rising by two miles and literally flooding the planet, but an increase in sea levels of 100-feet will have disastrous, if limited, on a planetary scale, effects.

Today's low-lying coastal areas around the world will simply cease to exist, submerged by the oceans. And all of Africa, which is pretty climatalogically awful and unsustainable already, is pretty much totally fucked due to increasing temperatures.

Humans are pretty hardy, having already survived some brutal Ice Ages. Climate change poses no existential danger to the species as a whole. But hundreds of millions of people ARE going to die.

In the name of profits.

[hifiguy]

60. The older I get the more strongly believe in the Roddenberry Projection.

Gene Roddenberry's "historical backstory" to all of Trek was that the 21st century saw a number of planetary catastrophes, including a limited nuclear war over diminishing natural resources, that killed off around 60-70% of Earth's population. Which still leaves plenty of humans (a couple of billion or so, +/- 10-15%, definitely sufficient to ensure the survival of the species) to rebuild a highly advanced technological civilization, given a century or so.

The kicker is that in the RP, humans learned from their past mistakes (perhaps for the first time and possibly the most unrealistic part of the entire scenario) and planetary society was subsequently reorganized around principles of atheistic secular humanism, reason, science, and democratic socialism. Money was abolished, made useless by the perfection of the replicator (which is theoretically quite plausible, if not yet technically possible). IIRC population was fairly strictly controlled and held to long-term sustainable levels as well.

Yes, Gene was a democratic socialist and an outspoken atheist who saw capitalism and religion as the two primary impediments to the human species realizing its potential. And brudda, was he ever right about that.

The next 50-85 years are going to be a very bad time to live on this planet.

[jwirr]

65. I hope you are right about this but for me there is one fear -

Greed exists in all governments and all religions. Human nature.

I do think that you are very right about some of the earth being habitable and that we will learn from our own mistakes - eventually.

I wonder how it could have ended if the corporations like Exxon would have cared for anything other than their own bottom line?

[hifiguy]

67. I "believe" in it to the extent I need to in order to remain sane

on a day-to-day basis. Whether it will come to pass, who knows, but I think there is some hope. It's hard if not impossible to underestimate the greed and superstitious gullibility of human beings, though.

[jwirr]

69. Yes, that is pretty much where I am at.

[sub.theory]

4. Fake cover

That cover is fake. It's part of the massive disinformation campaign to deny climate change. TIME confirmed it was a hoax. See this link for details.

http://science.time.com/2013/06/06/sorry-a-time-magazine-cover-did-not-predict-a-coming-ice-age/

[Nye Bevan]

6. Thanks, I will self-delete (nt)

[Javaman]

7. and how completely under reported this has been.

it's disgraceful.

[daleanime]

10. Of course it's under-reported.....

it would be bad for profits.

[jwirr]

66. And could cause wholesale panic.

[peacebird]

12. Bernie has asked Justice Dept to investigate this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-exxon-investigation_5626a0cce4b08589ef496854

[TBF]

24. O'Malley did as well. Camp Clinton remains silent.

Big surprise.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democratic-candidates-investigate-exxon_5622eb16e4b0bce34700fe40

[peacebird]

25. Good to know O'Malley did this too! Clinton, yeah, no suprise there's crickets from her

[hifiguy]

63. The lapdog does not even nip, much less bite, the hand

that feeds it prime steak tartare from a solid gold bowl. It doesn't even bark. It merely yips for more.

[jwirr]

68. Clinton might have a spot reserved in those underground

caves.

[postulater]

13. Most of my blood boiled over decades ago.

It's evaporated by now.

[passiveporcupine]

46. Mine too

This is what I expect from big corporations.

[AlbertCat]

19. Everybody did!

Why do you think all that environmental stuff and films about nature fighting back were in the 70's?

Back then overpopulation was the focal point (Soylent Green anyone?)... and it still has much to do with global warming.

That's why Prez Carter was so hated.... he wanted us to sacrifice a little so the planet would be a nicer place.

"Greed is good" Reagan put a stop to that. Americans became complacent. And now here we are....

[grahampuba]

34. not OUR fault!!

this is what makes drivel like this NPR piece so infuriating,


http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/10/06/446109168/climate-change-is-not-our-fault

not our fault? by his argument i'll concede that the first two-thirds fell into the ignorance is bliss zone,
but the last 40-50 years? criminal to say the least.

[AlbertCat]

37. this is what makes drivel like this NPR piece so infuriating,

Indeed.


It's kinda like the tobacco thing. My mother used to say "Good Grief! Everybody has known cigarettes were bad for you for decades. In the 30s when I was a teenager, slang for a cigarettewas a 'coffin nail'!"

Like Laurie Anderson said "Maybe if we pretend this never happened, they'll all just..... go away...."

[KansDem]

20. It was known as early as 1958

Yet, I don't remember hearing about global warming when I was growing up, and I was born in 1953!

[TheMastersNemesis]

33. I Was Born In 1944 At Saw ALL Those Bell Programs.

I remember that sequel well. I was into the weather and meteorology. That program on the weather was var ahead of its time.

[Dustlawyer]

26. This is no different than tobacco as mentioned, or the asbestos manufacturers killing millions of

American and foreign workers worldwide by covering up their own research in 1932, which told them that's asbestos and fractured silica (sandblasting) caused deadly lung diseases and cancer.

They get away with this because they own the politicians, most of the judges, and have their media lie to us and omit covering the issue almost completely. People do not understand what kind of power the money these huge corporations have over our system.

I have watched BP gerrymander the whole Gulf Oil Spill to the point that Obama gave them the Coast Guard to spray the Corexit to sink the oil out of sight and dooming the long term health of the Gulf of Mexico. The media has people believing that the victims have been compensated because none will report the truth and risk losing the ad dollars BP has been paying to cover up the truth of what is taking place. The Plaintiff's Steering Committee (PSC), appointed by their friend, the judge over the case, will get $600,000,000 for agreeing to a one-sided settlement where 75% of the victims get nothing. The kicker is that the PSC does not get the $600,000,000 if the class settlement gets overturned on appeal. That insures that the PSC has a conflict of interest which prevents them from looking out for the victims if they want the money.

The ones that opted out of the class settlement and filed suit against BP have had their cases frozen for 6 years and unable to do anything. The Judge will not send their cases back to the courts where they were filed so they can move forward.

Our country is owned by these powerful corporations, they run our government! I am tired of living under corporate rule and that is why I support Bernie Sanders and you should too!

[tex-wyo-dem]

30. This shit should be raised to what it is...

A crime against humanity 😡

[Yallow]

35. A War Crime - The Was Is On Our Planet / Home

Just as bad.

Kill for profit!

Greed Is Good!

Kill, Kill, Kill = Never Go To Prison

Capitalism at it's finest!!!!

What the world needs is beyond Socialism.....

[RadiationTherapy]

32. Hmm. Oh well. What profit did it have Exxon's shareholders to have made this research public?

There are no moral demands on corporations.

[Rex]

39. So they can deny that the people investigating are correct.

Last line...

"It doesn’t appear, however, that Kimmell will get his retribution. Jeffers claims the investigation’s finds are “just patently untrue, misleading, and we reject them completely”—words that match Ward’s claims against them nearly a decade ago."

So it was a release and kill the messenger.

[RadiationTherapy]

42. Exactly. We make no moral demands on companies of any significance. I find the sporadic outrage

about corporate "anything for a profit" mentality tiresome - unless the outrage becomes constant and active, then I will be very interested.

[Yallow]

36. Bernie Should Be Hammering This With 50% Of His Stump Speech

And let's see how Hillary covers Exxon, and their friends.

[Rex]

38. Of course they did. SO does all the billion dollar conglomerates.

That is why when someone pretends a huge corporation 'doesn't know' about something like their harmfull effects on the enviroment...they are full of shit or clueless. Take your pick.

OF COURSE THEY KNEW. As we all suspected and knew from common sense.

[WillyT]

40. K & R !!!

[mhatrw]

41. Just like the lead, asbestos & tobacco industries before them.

And the cell phone and GMO industries today.

Except even worse because the whole damn planet is affected.

[Duppers]

44. I thought this was already known.

That they knew and have for decades.



Thanks for the post...it GREAT to see this in GD for visibility for a change. Most folks never go to the Environment forum.

[NullVoid]

45. Exxon

Exxon is just trash and no one should support it

[greytdemocrat]

48. And...

Exxon also said this...

But ExxonMobil disagrees that any of its early statements were so stark, let alone conclusive at all. “We didn’t reach those conclusions, nor did we try to bury it like they suggest,” ExxonMobil spokesperson Allan Jeffers tells Scientific American. “The thing that shocks me the most is that we’ve been saying this for years, that we have been involved in climate research. These guys go down and pull some documents that we made available publicly in the archives and portray them as some kind of bombshell whistle-blower exposé because of the loaded language and the selective use of materials.”

[hifiguy]

64. The Corporate Borg

does not invest that kind of money in heavy-duty science without getting definitive answers on such a question.

Guess what, they're lying again, but when do they not?

[Jack Rabbit]

49. Let's hit ExxonMobil where it hurts . . .

(yeah, this one has come in handy today)
[center]
?t=1416860323
[/center][font size="1"]From Sundance Solar.com
[/font]

[ErikJ]

50. ANd they could care less because theyll be long dead when the SHTF.

They dont even care about their grand kids.

[burrowowl]

52. K&R!!!!!!

[Liberal_in_LA]

53. kick

[YOHABLO]

56. A lot of us knew this in the 70s but no one listened then, remember Earth Day? We weren't scientists

[raouldukelives]

57. In my mind, it is a moral issue on par with slavery.

Perhaps even surpassing it in a call for individual action. The world could bounce back from slavery.

All that is threatened is our natural world, its flora and fauna, the eventual famine, exodus and horrible deaths of billions, the entire recorded history of our time here and all the works and thoughts of every intellectual and artist.

Oh well, no big deal. Hey, maybe I can help facilitate a little Exxon stock trade and make a bundle! Yeah, that's the ticket. Their disdain and thoughtlessness of our friends in the natural world is only matched by the incredible passion and precision they devote to acquiring wealth, damn the consequences.

[OKIsItJustMe]

58. A handy poster for your wall

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1127&pid=91659