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Tue Oct 6, 2015, 10:35 AM

Poles furious after Russia blames them for starting WWII

Poles furious after Russia blames them for starting WWII

WARSAW, Poland (AP) The Russian ambassador to Poland has sparked outrage for putting some of the blame for World War II on Poland, creating a new spat amid deepening tensions between the Slavic nations.

Russian Ambassador Sergey Andreev on Friday described the Soviet's 1939 invasion of Poland as an act of self-defense, not aggression. The comment prompted Poland's Foreign Ministry to declare Saturday that the ambassador "undermines historical truth" and seems to be trying to justify Stalinist crimes.

World War II began after Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union sealed a pact in 1939 that included a secret provision to carve up Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe. Germany soon invaded Poland from the West, followed by a Soviet invasion from the east 16 days later. Millions of Poles were killed in the war.

http://bigstory.ap.org/urn:publicid:ap.org:43af9cc8c7a8478fb24295179aae77ee


I'm sure it will be argued Katyn forest massacre was an act of self-defense as well.

27 replies, 1405 views

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Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply Poles furious after Russia blames them for starting WWII (Original post)
Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 OP
DetlefK Oct 2015 #1
SidDithers Oct 2015 #2
Octafish Oct 2015 #9
SidDithers Oct 2015 #11
Octafish Oct 2015 #12
SidDithers Oct 2015 #13
Octafish Oct 2015 #14
SidDithers Oct 2015 #15
Octafish Oct 2015 #16
SidDithers Oct 2015 #17
Octafish Oct 2015 #18
SidDithers Oct 2015 #19
Octafish Oct 2015 #20
SidDithers Oct 2015 #21
Octafish Oct 2015 #23
SidDithers Oct 2015 #24
Octafish Oct 2015 #26
SidDithers Oct 2015 #27
Javaman Oct 2015 #3
MBS Oct 2015 #5
Javaman Oct 2015 #6
MBS Oct 2015 #7
Javaman Oct 2015 #8
KamaAina Oct 2015 #4
alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #10
McCamy Taylor Oct 2015 #22
DFW Oct 2015 #25

Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 10:38 AM

1. Half of Russians regard the mass-murdering tyrant Stalin as a folk-hero.

Of course, you have to come up with excuses for the war and slaughter he has caused.

Just like you have to brand the anti-communist ukrainian rebel Bandera as a terrorist.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 10:40 AM

2. Watch for the Robert Parry article confirming Russia's story...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 09:53 AM

9. Nice smear.

Like the time you "remember" Naomi Klein being a "bit of a drinker."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022146890#post82

Or did you hear she was a "bit of a drinker"?

Comparing your writings, I don't think you two ran in the same circles.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:08 AM

11. Hey, lets talk about your choice of sources...

and your propensity for choosing to promote authors who are racists, homophobes and anti-semites. People like Christopher Bollyn, Paul Craig Roberts and Wayne Madsen.

Here are just a few, of many examples:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4504297
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6057873
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023454166

Why do you promote these despicable bigots at DU, octafish?



Sid



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Response to SidDithers (Reply #11)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:11 AM

12. That shows even more what you are.

Here:



I've asked you, repeatedly over the years, to show what you term my "propensity for promoting and legitimizing the work of noted bigots, racists, homophobes and conspiracy theorist lunatics. You're a guy who thinks white-nationalist Paul Craig Roberts and insane homophobe Wayne Madsen are credible, and appropriate sources for use on a progressive message board."

Seeing how you fail to actually show any of that, I want these to be in the record for all DU to see:

Where I quoted Roberts when he supported Don Siegelman:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022073759


Where I quoted Madsen recently to document the business links between Bush and bin Laden:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6059251


Where I first quoted Madsen on DU2 in 2003 (earlier examples exist, but none so illustrative):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x610051


Where you smear Naomi Klein, making me think the practice is your speciality:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5318151

You will note that I did not support any theory, smear, or lie; I only posted what these people wrote. And as far I as I knew or know, none of these people are anything like what SidDithers of DU describes.



So, there's really no "propensity for choosing to promote authors who are racists, homophobes and anti-semites. People like Christopher Bollyn, Paul Craig Roberts and Wayne Madsen" is there? Just a smear from SidDithers of DU.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:17 AM

13. You can deny it as much as you want, octafish of DU...

but the links are there for anyone to see.

Bollyn, PCR and Madsen should be toxic to anyone claiming to be progressive. They're bigots, homophobes, racists and anti-Semites.

But you've got no problem legitimizing them by promoting their writings at DU.

It's a pattern that's been repeated too often, octafish of DU. I'm not the only one who has noticed.


Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:59 AM

14. Yeah. They show I support democracy.

What you do, the pattern shows, is smear to censor.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 11:36 AM

15. They show you legitimizing bigots, homopohobes and racists...

Over and over and over and over again.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #15)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 11:43 AM

16. No, they don't. But, you know that.

Otherwise, you would show where they do.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 11:56 AM

17. Yeah, they do. And I just did...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #17)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 01:37 PM

18. In your mind, but that doesn't count.

For years, I've asked you to show where I'm wrong. You never do. So, why do you continue to follow me around?

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Response to Octafish (Reply #18)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:07 PM

19. The links I provided tell a different story...

and I follow you around? Don't make me fucking laugh.

It was you replied to a three-day old post of mine, in this thread.



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #19)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:14 PM

20. You sound like the republicans who invent reality, siddithers of DU.

Just because they say something, they think it's true and that nobody is going to bother checking.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2386529

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Response to Octafish (Reply #20)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:25 PM

21. Fucking hiliarious...

you reply to a 3 day old post of mine, and accuse me of following you around.



Keep promoting those racists and homophobes, octafish. Keep hoping nobody will notice that you're OK with their bigotry.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #21)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:33 PM

23. Show where I promote ''racists and homophobes.''

Otherwise, you are what your posts show you are: a smear artist.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #23)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:36 PM

24. Post 11...

every one of those links goes to a post of yours, where you're promoting the writings of a piece of shit bigot.

Nobody who considers themself progressive should have anything to do with those authors.

But you link to them again and again and again and again.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #24)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 04:08 PM

26. Those posts support what I said.

You denigrate me for posting in support of Don Siegelman, investigating Bush and Cheney, and connecting bin Laden and the petrodollars to James R. Bath and George W Bush. Here:



I've asked you, repeatedly over the years, to show what you term my "propensity for promoting and legitimizing the work of noted bigots, racists, homophobes and conspiracy theorist lunatics. You're a guy who thinks white-nationalist Paul Craig Roberts and insane homophobe Wayne Madsen are credible, and appropriate sources for use on a progressive message board."

Seeing how you fail to actually show any of that, I want these to be in the record for all DU to see:

Where I quoted Roberts when he supported Don Siegelman:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022073759


Where I quoted Madsen recently to document the business links between Bush and bin Laden:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6059251


Where I first quoted Madsen on DU2 in 2003 (earlier examples exist, but none so illustrative):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x610051


Where you smear Naomi Klein, making me think the practice is your speciality:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5318151

You will note that I did not support any theory, smear, or lie; I only posted what these people wrote. And as far I as I knew or know, none of these people are anything like what SidDithers of DU describes.



So, there's really no "propensity for choosing to promote authors who are racists, homophobes and anti-semites. People like Christopher Bollyn, Paul Craig Roberts and Wayne Madsen" is there? Just a smear from SidDithers of DU. See my reply in #12.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #26)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 04:15 PM

27. Keep denying the obvious truth, octafish of DU...

You link to articles from piece of shit bigots. I don't care why you do it, it doesn't matter why you do it.

Nobody who considers themself to be progressive would give legitimacy to the likes of Wayne Madsen, Christopher Bollyn and Paul Craig Roberts.

Maybe you have no problem with their odious opinions. But I do.



Sid

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:26 PM

3. so the russians took a chunk of the Ukraine, how much are the planning on taking of Poland?

I put nothing past asshole putin.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:29 PM

5. me either.

I'm sure that the Baltic countries are not resting easy these days, either.

Above all, it's the shameless lies (Poles responsible for WWII- are you kidding me??!).

Very, very upsetting.

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Response to MBS (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:36 PM

6. I know when the Baltic nations broke away from Russia...

the russian leaders were pissed. I have always thought it was a matter of time before they did something to get them back. Russia wants that outlet to the atlantic.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 8, 2015, 03:32 PM

7. I suspect that their long-time interest in Syria

also has something to do with ensuring access to the eastern Meditteranean as well.

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Response to MBS (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 08:56 AM

8. Very interesting point.

I'm angry at myself for not seeing that.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:27 PM

4. Not The Onion?!

 

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 09:57 AM

10. Currently reading Snyder's "Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning"

 

He has very good discussions of the Soviet and German dealings with (and plots against) Poland. Andreev's comments are beyond ridiculous.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:30 PM

22. How short was Poland's skirt? Was Poland wearing pantyhose?

This is like blaming the victim of rape.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:41 PM

25. I used to hang with a student from Poland in the early 1970s

They used to let some of them study abroad. He told me a story they used to tell in Poland that illustrated their feeling for Russia.

A Pole finds an old bottle on the beach, rubs it, and out comes a genie. The genie tells him he will grant his three wishes. The Pole ponders for a moment.

Then he says, "For my first wish, I wish for the Chinese army to invade Poland." The Genie is a little disconcerted by this unusual wish, but he is obligated to grant it. He asks what the Pole wants for his second wish.

The Pole says, "For my second wish, I want the Chinese army to invade Poland again." The Genie is shaking his head by now, but says he will grant the wish. And the final wish?

The Pole says, "I wish for the Chinese army to invade Poland for a third time." The Genie says the third wish will be granted, too, but first the Pole has to tell him WHY he wants to Chinese army to invade Poland three times in a row.

The Pole explains: "For the Chinese army to reach the borders of Poland, it would have to lay waste to Russia three times in a row just on the way getting here."

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