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Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:01 PM

Am I wrong in feeling we should take care of our homeless folks first?

I have such mixed feelings and part of me wants to take in refugees, but the other part wants to deal with our own issues first. We have so many homeless and working homeless folks who are being ignored. With the politics of the right we have such limited resources.

Can someone help me out with my mixed feelings?

61 replies, 3838 views

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Reply Am I wrong in feeling we should take care of our homeless folks first? (Original post)
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 OP
ProfessorGAC Sep 2015 #1
KamaAina Sep 2015 #2
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #5
bermudat Sep 2015 #35
HassleCat Sep 2015 #3
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #6
get the red out Sep 2015 #12
Scootaloo Sep 2015 #4
gratuitous Sep 2015 #7
yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #9
Codeine Sep 2015 #10
yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #14
lunasun Sep 2015 #21
daleanime Sep 2015 #28
LanternWaste Sep 2015 #8
840high Sep 2015 #18
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #23
840high Sep 2015 #29
KentuckyWoman Sep 2015 #38
ScreamingMeemie Sep 2015 #40
840high Sep 2015 #41
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #43
ScreamingMeemie Sep 2015 #46
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #47
ScreamingMeemie Sep 2015 #49
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #50
hollysmom Sep 2015 #11
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #24
wendylaroux Sep 2015 #13
Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #15
JI7 Sep 2015 #16
840high Sep 2015 #17
inwiththenew Sep 2015 #19
lunasun Sep 2015 #20
pampango Sep 2015 #22
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #25
randys1 Sep 2015 #26
Cleita Sep 2015 #27
roody Sep 2015 #30
onecaliberal Sep 2015 #31
Ghost in the Machine Sep 2015 #32
Cleita Sep 2015 #36
Ghost in the Machine Sep 2015 #37
KingCharlemagne Sep 2015 #55
Ghost in the Machine Sep 2015 #61
840high Sep 2015 #44
cpwm17 Sep 2015 #33
840high Sep 2015 #34
SheilaT Sep 2015 #39
haikugal Sep 2015 #53
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #57
cheapdate Sep 2015 #42
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2015 #45
SMC22307 Sep 2015 #48
The2ndWheel Sep 2015 #51
Facility Inspector Sep 2015 #52
haikugal Sep 2015 #54
treestar Sep 2015 #56
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #58
Herman4747 Sep 2015 #59
Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #60

Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:02 PM

1. Yes You Are Wrong

We should get tax cuts for the "job creators". Kidding. No, you have some noble bones in your body.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:04 PM

2. We should declare the homeless as internal refugees

 

In fact, I'm going to a homeless activist meeting this very afternoon. I think I'll float that.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:10 PM

5. Thanks

In a perfect world we could do so much more but in reality until people take control of this country and want a change we don't have the money available for either. Sadly I see more and more people just not caring.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 06:27 PM

35. Internal refugees, good one.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:04 PM

3. Take what we can get

 

It's not a win-lose proposition. If we eliminate our refugee assistance, we can't transfer the money to help the homeless.

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:11 PM

6. I get it but for now we seem to be doing neither.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:24 PM

12. I agree

That's what I see also.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:10 PM

4. I can walk and chew gum.

 

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:12 PM

7. The only limit on our resources is imagination

Cut the defense budget by a couple of days' annual allotment, and we could feed, clothe and house thousands of refugees and nearly all of our own home-grown homeless. The crisis is entirely artificial, created and maintained by the meanest, most cowardly creeps among us to keep the fear well-mongered and to excuse their own heartlessness. Don't buy what they're trying to sell you.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:18 PM

9. Oh that is not true

 

We have a severe water shortage in parts of this country that will not improve. Adding to our already large population certainly won't help.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:22 PM

10. We have a water management problem,

 

not a shortage. Intelligent water use can mitigate the supply concerns.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #10)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:25 PM

14. Thanks! I wish they'd get on it.

 

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:58 PM

21. +1

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 06:01 PM

28. +1

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:15 PM

8. We can do both. We simply choose not to do the former.

 

We can do both.

The resources far exceed the need within the imaginary and magical lines we call borders. We simply choose not to take care of all the individuals born on the "good" side of the magic lines.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:09 PM

18. Why are senior citizens here faced

 

with a choice of buying food or their medicines?

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Response to 840high (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 05:43 PM

23. So true and I am a senior citizen

I'm 68 and my wife is 72. I am lucky and can still work but I fear the day I can't. I have friends who I have known all my life and nearly all of live in fear. It is one of my friends birthday today and she has been out of money for a week. She has no cable and her phone has been cut off. She gets her SSI Wednesday and the cycle starts all over again. She just sits at home and my wife takes her to the local food bank because she has no gas money. Her birthday present from us was a $25 gas card.

We may not go hungry but you can bet we eat at fast food dollar menus. Eating out, not going to happen.

Now my wife was told by her Medicare Advantage Plan that she can no longer do CT or PT scans but once a year. Her oncologist is appealing their decision but I won't hole my breath.

It never ends and it is going to get worse. My biggest fear is getting sick or injureecaud. I would have to live in a nursing home because my wife can't take care of me.

Plus I need every penny of my part time to pay rent and our very nominal needs.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Reply #23)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 06:02 PM

29. I understand. I'm almost

 

80 and it's very tough.

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Response to 840high (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 07:38 PM

38. Because

We have made a choice to blame the victims while the greedy bullies take it all and refuse to share.

We don't have too many people and not enough resources. We have plenty. Lots of plenty. At the expense of poor people the world over.

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Response to 840high (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 08:56 PM

40. It's not just senior citizens anymore.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 09:29 PM

41. You are right.

 

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:01 PM

43. I agree but there is one significant difference

A lot of seniors can't do anything about the changes in our economy. When gas is over three bucks a gallon it is hard to buy gas. When everything keeps going up but we don't get a cost of living increase or like last year I got a sixteen dollar raise in Social Security, it's impossible to make up the difference.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Reply #43)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:54 PM

46. That does not happen to just senior citizens. I am 45.

I receive SS survivor benefits for my son. I cannot make over a certain amount + the benefits to make up that over 3 bucks a gallon either. Taking it further, away from you and I and our personal situations, people are no longer guaranteed raises in regular employment to make up the difference. This is not the country either of us grew up in, and it's a community-wide problem.

(Last year, I got a 4 dollar raise in SS benefits.)

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #46)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 11:30 PM

47. There are exceptions but when you are old and sick

you have few, if any options. At 45, unless a person is disabled they can find a job. The point was not about you or me it's about having no options. Sure there are people age 45 that are having a tough time but there are millions of seniors that struggle daily.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Reply #47)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 11:57 PM

49. When you are young and sick... same deal.

When you are young and underemployed... same deal.

This ranges across age groups, hitting those with young children super hard.

We are all in this together now.

Millions of people are struggling daily.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #49)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 08:19 AM

50. Agreed nt

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:23 PM

11. the problem with the homeless in this country is complex

1. many have mental problems that makes it more difficult to help them with just resources of bed and food, we need to rework how this country treats mental illness.

2. we strip people of everything they own before we help some. In some states, they have x much money allocated and if you are not the first few in line, the money runs out and they throw up their hands and say - too bad, nothing we can do. and the whole giving them a place to live is complicated because many of them are dangerous to live, we need affordable housing and a guaranteed minimum income and I never see that happening because some people think living on the minimum is a give away to lazy people, where as I think it is not a desirable life.

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Response to hollysmom (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 05:45 PM

24. Thank Ronald Regan for closing mental health facilities

His theory was relatives would take these people in but they ended up homeless. It is a huge problem and no politician is even talking about it.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:24 PM

13. until caring/kindness is considered a virtue,

instead of a character flaw,by too many people,

it is not going to change.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:29 PM

15. i don't see why it is either/or, we have a significant homeless problem in St. Louis, if we didn't..

 

take in refugees from Bosnia back in the 1990s, I would imagine it would have been much worse, and more areas would be blighted. The Bosnians helped stabilize the population loss, promote some economic growth and increase the tax base. Now St. Louis is trying a pilot program of "house first, try other things later" with veterans like other cities are doing, and the success or failure of this program will be directly related to how much political capital will be invested in it.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:31 PM

16. did you ask to do something before the issue with refugees ?

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:07 PM

17. Take care of your own first. If we

 

have extra money - then consider helping the migrants.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:17 PM

19. More cheap labor

Follow the money. I bet you they will gladly work for $7.00 an hour or whatever minimum wage is in your area.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:56 PM

20. if we took in percentage wise the amount Germay is taking in it would be over 3 million for the US

That was brought up in an interview with Amb. Peter Wittig of Germany this week
I think the US has committed to 10K ? We are really not doing nearly as much as we probably should even with that current commitment

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 05:39 PM

22. Conservatives are not going to help the refugees. If liberals don't help them, no one will.

Conservatives are more interested in building border walls, burning refugee centers and generally trying to make refugees someone else's problem. Liberals generally care about the government helping people in need, a distinct difference from conservatives.

While our foreign aid and refugee assistance funding is a tiny, tiny part of the federal budget, conservatives are always out to kill them. They love it when liberals get so frustrated with the cuts to our own safety net that they join in conservative policy of restricting limited remaining government assistance to US, not THEM.

If Germany, Sweden and others can provide effective safety nets AND help refugees at the same time, so can we. Conservatives love to play the "US vs THEM" game. To not help the refugees because they are THEM means the conservatives win.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 05:48 PM

25. Most of our foreign aid goes for arms not humanitarian needs.

We send billions to Israel to keep them up to date with the latest military weapons. They repay us by electing Bibi who has nothing but contempt for this country.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 05:49 PM

26. Let's do both, to do that we have to get rid of all non Democratic politicians.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 06:00 PM

27. No you are not but it seems human nature to write a check to go across the ocean

to help those in need while ignoring the unkempt, down on his luck person going through the dumpster to find still edible food to eat and aluminum cans to sell on his street.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 06:05 PM

30. We should and can do both.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 06:07 PM

31. We damn sure can and should do both.

History will judge us harshly as it should. It makes me ill.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 06:12 PM

32. I have always been a "Charity starts at home" thinking person and, quite frankly, believe that we

need to take care of our own, here in our Country, before we send billions upon billions of dollars all over the globe helping others out. Does that mean I think we *shouldn't* help other Countries out?? Not in the least. I just think that we need to address our own problems first, or as they say, "clean up our own yard before we worry about anyone else".

Putting on my flame proof suit...

Peace,

Ghost

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #32)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 07:12 PM

36. The exception I would make is where we start messes, we need to fix them.

I believe in the ME there is a big mess we need to fix. I personally would like to see the Bush administration put on trial for war crimes and as one of their sentences, life in prison being one, but secondly their fortunes should be confiscated to make reparations to those who have suffered from their wars.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #36)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 07:20 PM

37. I can go along with that, and even go a little bit better! As part of their sentence, Bush, Cheney,

Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and the rest of them should be put on a plane, in shackles, and be flown to Iraq where they can work on a chain gang cleaning up their own mess!



Peace,

Ghost

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #37)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 09:27 AM

55. the entire Bush Junta should be assigned the burial detail - nt

 

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #55)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 02:13 PM

61. No, they would probably find some sick joy in burying all those dead "brown people". I would have

them in charge of cleaning raw sewage and picking up rotted garbage and any other nasty thing I could think of.

Peace,

Ghost

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #32)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:24 PM

44. Agree.

 

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 06:14 PM

33. We helped set the Middle East on fire

 

so we should help those that are fleeing the mess. It's the only moral thing to do.

There will always be things that need to be done to make our country better, but that is no excuse to do nothing else.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 08:52 PM

39. It's not an either/or choice.

 

Homelessness is a very complex problem. I do volunteer work helping feed the homeless in my city. I really like doing it, but I could not work with them on a day-to-day basis, because I would far too quickly lose patience with too many of them. I can see to what extent many of them are their own worst enemies.

A while back someone here suggested (I hope I'm remembering this correctly) that large empty buildings, which most cities have, be remodeled as dormitories, and thought that would magically solve the homeless problem. It wouldn't, if for no reason that there would be insufficient privacy and security, and there's a hardcore group who aren't willing to conform to any rules, and if they are allowed in, can cause all kinds of trouble. I've seen it happen.

What is needed, whether for homeless people or refugees, is a lot of intensive help, which is extremely expensive. This country spends vast amounts on our military, and it's too bad most of that can't be diverted to other uses. I'm convinced that we are already on the long, slow downward slide of history, and it is our out-of-control military spending that will be our ultimate undoing.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #39)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 09:12 AM

53. Military spending is our ONLY jobs program...

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #39)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 09:59 AM

57. My son tells a similar story

He works with a ministry that helps people living on the street. He tells me all the time that life on the street is more than just trying to survive the elements and the lack of money. It's also about surviving the predators who prey on these folks. The elderly are particularly vulnerable. When they get Social Security payments these predators know the date they get their money and are easy targets.

Shelters are also violent places, especially for women and children who face a different type of predator.

There are some beacons of hope here in Dallas. The Austin street Center is doing great work but there is so much need and so little resources available.

My son tells this story often. He was with a fellow volunteer and there was a guy who was holding a sign asking for money. The fellow volunteer said something to the effect that this guy looked healthy so why was he being being lazy and not working. He further said he thought most of these folks were making tons of money and probably drove fancy cars. Later in the evening they came back by and the guy who was probably driving a fancy car was digging in a trash can and found the remnants of someone's burger and as they watched he wolfed down what was left of the burger. "Some rich guy" my son said to his fellow volunteer.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 09:48 PM

42. Maybe. A little.

I think medical ethics require prioritizing care according to needs, regardless of identity.

I think most religious ethical systems would insist on making whatever sacrifices are needed to help every possible person in need.

But helping your own first is human nature.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:25 PM

45. we can do both, the money exists

 

it is the priorities we have,

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 11:43 PM

48. The United States helped created the refugee crisis...

in my view, NOT helping them is immoral. It's bad enough what we've done to the Middle East, but not helping those desperate for survival is just wrong.

Refugees and the homeless don't need to be pitted against one another -- we can help both groups, but will we?

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 08:40 AM

51. There's no objective answer

While money may be limited only by the human imagination, physical reality is finite. Or at least that's what we keep telling ourselves in relation to the environmental issues we have. This topic would be yet another one where the limitless side and the finite side come into contact, and it will require a difficult choice at some point.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 08:44 AM

52. There's enough money for that

 

refugees, free university education, and socialized medicine.

We, as a country, just have different priorites like endless war and socialism for the wealthy.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 09:14 AM

54. We are NOT broke...we have money, as a country we're capable...we need a political revolution.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 09:53 AM

56. I see your point, but then there are always homeless people

and there are some programs to help them. It would be worse to be in a war zone. Way more dangerous.

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Response to treestar (Reply #56)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 10:01 AM

58. There are some programs

but mainly to take care of their physical needs. A hot meal and such but very little to help get them off the streets. I also believe people living on the street, especially women, children and the elderly are living in a war zone.

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Response to Tommy2Tone (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 01:19 PM

59. Yes, You are Wrong.

 

1) An American life is NO MORE PRECIOUS than any other life
2) Some of the refugees are not just homeless, but under risk of violent assault.

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Response to Herman4747 (Reply #59)

Tue Sep 15, 2015, 01:23 PM

60. In the abstract you are correct

but the reality is we can't save the world but we can save Americans.

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