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Thu Sep 3, 2015, 07:07 PM

 

Tom Brady is Lucky That He is A Union Member

Whether or not you are a Patriots' Fan or you hate the fact that they win all the time, you have to admit that the Brady Deflategate saga was quite a lesson to many people on the advantages of being in a union and working under a Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).

Take, for instance, the players involved with "Bountygate". The New Orleans players that were suspended had all of their punishments dramatically reduced, or, in some cases, completely vacated. The coach, Shawn Payton, worked for management and was, in essence, an employee at will. He had no recourse because he had no employee rights. Therefore, he lost a full year of work, his salary and a hefty fine.

This should be a lesson to everyone in the work-place. Being a union member and working under a CBA, you can only be disciplined for "Just Cause" and not because someone in management thinks you are "generally aware" of another's misconduct, if the misconduct isn't even proven to have taken place in the first instance.

So, whether you work for $20 million a year or $20 thousand a year, only unions give you rights in the work-place.

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Arrow 51 replies Author Time Post
Reply Tom Brady is Lucky That He is A Union Member (Original post)
louis c Sep 2015 OP
riversedge Sep 2015 #1
randys1 Sep 2015 #2
Dyedinthewoolliberal Sep 2015 #3
global1 Sep 2015 #4
mythology Sep 2015 #5
Krytan11c Sep 2015 #8
louis c Sep 2015 #11
Johonny Sep 2015 #6
joeybee12 Sep 2015 #15
Logical Sep 2015 #7
former9thward Sep 2015 #9
louis c Sep 2015 #10
former9thward Sep 2015 #12
louis c Sep 2015 #13
former9thward Sep 2015 #14
louis c Sep 2015 #16
former9thward Sep 2015 #17
louis c Sep 2015 #18
former9thward Sep 2015 #21
ShrimpPoboy Sep 2015 #19
former9thward Sep 2015 #20
Kingofalldems Sep 2015 #22
1939 Sep 2015 #23
louis c Sep 2015 #35
former9thward Sep 2015 #25
Kingofalldems Sep 2015 #27
former9thward Sep 2015 #28
Kingofalldems Sep 2015 #29
louis c Sep 2015 #31
former9thward Sep 2015 #32
louis c Sep 2015 #33
former9thward Sep 2015 #36
louis c Sep 2015 #39
former9thward Sep 2015 #42
1939 Sep 2015 #47
louis c Sep 2015 #34
former9thward Sep 2015 #37
ShrimpPoboy Sep 2015 #24
former9thward Sep 2015 #26
louis c Sep 2015 #38
former9thward Sep 2015 #40
louis c Sep 2015 #44
former9thward Sep 2015 #45
louis c Sep 2015 #41
tenderfoot Sep 2015 #43
former9thward Sep 2015 #46
louis c Sep 2015 #48
louis c Sep 2015 #50
smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #51
Agschmid Sep 2015 #30
Name removed Sep 2015 #49

Response to louis c (Original post)

Thu Sep 3, 2015, 07:12 PM

1. 1+

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Thu Sep 3, 2015, 07:14 PM

2. Unions are such a no brainer. Too bad so many have no brains

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Thu Sep 3, 2015, 07:32 PM

3. Your last sentence

is an excellent way to sum up why unions are important. I'm stealing it!
But I will say thanks first!

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Thu Sep 3, 2015, 08:58 PM

4. This Is A Teachable Moment And The Unions And Union Supporters Need To.....

take advantage of it and make it an example. A lot of people relate to football. What a better way to couple the two - football players and the value of a union - and relate that to every worker.

Hear that Unions - don't squander this opportunity.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Thu Sep 3, 2015, 10:59 PM

5. Except their union is frankly really crappy

 

They have only very recently begun to secure any sort of benefits for retirees (and even that required retired permanently injured players to initiate the lawsuits), they don't have guaranteed contracts and they support a system that pays the handful of players who get hit the least, the most money and the players who are at the most risk for life long injuries lesser amounts.

The NFLPA also fought tooth and nail against drug testing and just defended a player who cheated other members of the union. If my "representatives" spent a bunch of time and money defending somebody who cheated me out of a fair shot, I'd be pissed off. It is utterly silly to assume that Brady and "The Deflator" only took the air out of the balls in one game.

The NFLPA is really not an example of a good union. It has let down both retired players and current players (or at least the current players who are not drug users or cheats).

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Response to mythology (Reply #5)

Fri Sep 4, 2015, 12:27 AM

8. Imagine

Imagine you work in a union job and per your collective bargaining there are set penalties for being late to work. 1-15 minutes= a warning. So one day you're late for work and your company decides to ignore the collective bargaining and suspend you for 2 weeks. It would be your unions job to fight for you.
The cba between the nfl and nflpa had set punishments for equipment infractions, a $25,000 fine. All of a sudden Tom Brady violates equipment policy and he's suspended 4 games. Damn right his union fought for him.
I agree that the nflpa could be much stronger, but I find no fault with their handling of Tom Brady's case.

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Response to mythology (Reply #5)

Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:06 AM

11. This proves my adege, "a bad union is better than no union at all".

 

Last edited Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:29 PM - Edit history (1)

The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) can help you fix a bad or corrupt union.

The NLRB can step in and protect you if the union doesn't do its job in protecting your rights. You have recourse, even in a bad union, and you can correct it through the election process.

If you have no union, you are at the mercy of the employer, period.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Thu Sep 3, 2015, 11:54 PM

6. The two locker room guys had no union. Result they were terminated by the Patriots.

Poor people with no union lost their jobs in deflategate. Rich guy with union kept job and money. It pays to have a union.

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Response to Johonny (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:08 PM

15. Another Framegate lie...

 

The two guys weren't even employees...just game-day employees who worked the Sunday games at Foxboro...in other words, they were employed 8 days a year...season ended, they left...lots of misinformation out that that the haters just ate up.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Thu Sep 3, 2015, 11:55 PM

7. Try to picket an NFL game and see if they cross the line, not a real Union! Nt

 

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Sep 4, 2015, 01:21 AM

9. This has nothing to do with the union.

Brady is one of the top players in the NFL. If there were no union his contract would provide all the protections against arbitrary punishment.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #9)

Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:01 AM

10. I'm sorry that you are mistaken

 

Last edited Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:29 PM - Edit history (2)

Without specifying in an individual contract rights only afforded in a Collective Bargaining Agreement, you are essentially an "At Will" employee.

By way of example, as I stated in the OP, each player accused in "Bountgate" had they're punishments reduced or rescinded.

Yet the coach, Sean Payton, is considered a management employee with an individual contract and not covered by the CBA, so he had no recourse, and had to accept the one year suspension without pay and a very hefty fine.

So, as I say, I'm sorry to have to correct you, but arbitration is reserved for union members with a CBA who can only be disciplined "for cause".

This is what I do for a living.

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Response to louis c (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 4, 2015, 03:29 PM

12. I sorry this is what you do for a living.

Because you do not understand it. If there was no union Brady would have a personal contract which specified how discipline will be handled. He is a top player so he would be able to get anything in his contract that he wanted and the owner would sign it. Low level players would not be so lucky.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:41 PM

13. Again

 

Last edited Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:30 PM - Edit history (1)

Sean Payton had a personal contract with the same league, under the same conditions.

He had no recourse to arbitration, or even the grievance process. Payton, in Bountygate, had no way to remedy his punishment. All of the Players were remedied with discipline reduction and in two cases, there punishment was vacated and they were paid for their "lost time" (completely financially compensated). All as a result of the Collective Bargaining Agreement which only affords union members that remedy.

How is it you can't understand that?

As for feeling sorry for what I do for a living, you can feel sorry for the management teams that consistently lose to me in the grievance and arbitration proceedings in Greater Boston. I do very well for a blue collar guy.

The Brady case was a good vehicle to educate the public on the advantages of a union and the work place law it provides.

I'm so sorry you missed that point and that you don't get it

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Response to louis c (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:51 PM

14. Shawn Payton is not in the same class as Brady.

Sorry you don't know that.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #14)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 04:07 PM

16. He has the same type of contract

 

as Brady. A direct contract with his secondary employer, the New Orleans Saints.

He can be disciplined by either his primary employer (the NFL) or his secondary employer (the Team), neither of which have union negotiated CBA's for management personal, so Payton has no rights under the primary contract (the NFL).

This is the last time I will respond on this subject. You don't get it and never will.

I have done this work for 20 years and have risen to the top of my profession. I deal with the most accomplished labor lawyers in America.

If you want to find out the facts involving labor law, I suggest you join the closest labor guild so you can have a remedial understanding of the subject.

I'm sure you know a lot about what you do for work. If I were you, I would try to post to subjects you know about and stay away from that which you know nothing about.

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Response to louis c (Reply #16)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 04:22 PM

17. He has th same type of contract because of the union.

The WHOLE premise of my comments in this OP was if there was NOT a union. Please get out of this field if you really are in it. You don't know what you are talking about.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #17)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 05:20 PM

18. If there was not a union, he would not have recourse to arbitration

 

I know, I broke my promise to not respond, but old union habits die hard.

I will stay in this field. I settled a case in which a woman, wrongfully terminated, was returned to work with full seniority, back pay and $60,000 paid in a triple damages suit against the company, and I'm not even a lawyer. I negotiate 3 or 4 days a week Collective Bargaining Agreements at 19 various sites around Greater Boston and mitigated a case just this week, in which a female electrical worker returned to work with a 3 day suspension with pay. As a matter of fact, I am on the negotiating team for the maintenance workers at Gillette stadium for a contract that expires on Dec. 31 of this year. Members can choose an agent to represent them in the second and third steps of a grievance and I am asked for so often that I have trouble meeting a schedule. So, when you say I should look for another field, it seems that people who really, really do know what they're talking about would heartily disagree with you.

If you can't see the importance of a union, perhaps you are on, and have been on for years, the wrong political site.

I have been criticized before from people who really do know what they're talking about but who support people for public office that wouldn't be welcome here at DU.

And you surely don't know what you are talking about, at least not on this subject.

But, alas, everyone is entitled to an opinion, regardless whether or not is based in knowledge or merit.

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Response to louis c (Reply #18)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 05:46 PM

21. I doubt you even watch football.

If you did you would not be making these comments. Brady could negotiate for arbitration or anything else and he would get it. Teams want him. Its not the other way around. But keep on digging....

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Response to former9thward (Reply #17)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 05:29 PM

19. You're assuming Brady could have negotiated for that.

Did top players have these rights before the CBA?

I honestly don't know. If not, that would be a strong argument for the union--not personal bargaining position--being responsible.

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Response to ShrimpPoboy (Reply #19)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 05:42 PM

20. The Union is not for players of Brady's ability.

It absolutely helps those of mid level or lower level ability. Brady could negotiate for anything he wanted.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #20)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 06:00 PM

22. I get the impression from your (wrong) arguments in this thread

that you don't like unions very much. Very unbecoming of a Democrat.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #22)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 06:15 PM

23. No, I think he is saying

that top players (like CEOs) have the power in contract negotiations to build in protection for themselves.

Board of Directors to CEO: You're fired!

CEO to Board of Directors: Fine, just pay me the gazillions of dollars severance that my contract calls for.

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Response to 1939 (Reply #23)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:39 PM

35. Please read this

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/21/sean-payton-bounty-suspension-seems-like-10-years-ago/

It says it all. It explains my position, which shouldn't have to be explained on this site.

The biggest problem with Democrats is that they don't know who their friends are.

We can't win without unions and too many Democrats are uninformed or misinformed about the most important political ally we have.

Ou unionr members will take a walk if they feel left out and there is no way we win without them and people like them.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #22)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 06:25 PM

25. I am not surprised that you get wrong impressions.

Given all your past replies to me. I said the union helps most players. It does not help Brady. He doesn't need it. I was elected three times to be Chairman of the biggest steelworker union in Chicago and one of the five biggest (at that time) in the U.S. So your post is pretty funny. And that is not news, I have posted many times about my activities there. Since you are the king of all dems only in your mind you don't to judge who is a Democrat and who isn't except in your own mind which is filled with wrong impressions -- and arguments.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #25)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 06:36 PM

27. Well let's see, when I asserted correctly that the republicans

wanted to abolish the EPA, you seemed offended and challenge me to prove it.

Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7055705

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7055894

This literally took seconds to look up: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7056259

Myself and a couple more still waiting.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7062183
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7056410

I saw the same tone in this thread as in the EPA thread.

Your response? Make fun of my name.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #27)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 06:44 PM

28. Another tactic -- derailing threads.

Not going to work with me. Try someone else.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #28)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 06:49 PM

29. Oh I'll be around.

Don't worry about that.

Oh and K and R this thread.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #28)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:03 PM

31. After you read this...........

 

I'll accept your apology.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/21/sean-payton-bounty-suspension-seems-like-10-years-ago/

<snip>“I certainly can’t speak for Tom,” Payton told Fox Sports Radio, via the New Orleans Times-Picayune. “The comparisons are difficult, because one deals with the players union, and in our case, there’s pretty much no representation outside what the league finds."

<snip 2>Without the legal backing of a union, coaches such as Payton have little choice but to sit back and take it, when it seems everyone else gets their sentences reduced as soon as it leaves Goodell’s courtroom.

Story by NBC Sports, July 21, 2015

I guess that says it all.

Game, set and match.

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Response to louis c (Reply #31)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:09 PM

32. A blog by a no name blogger.

Giving the same silly argument as you do. Comparing a coach who 99% of people have never heard of to a top tier player is just ridiculous.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #32)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:16 PM

33. NBC sports is no "no name blog"?

 

and Sean Payton is no "no-name".

Find me a story from any source that backs your position.

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Response to louis c (Reply #33)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:40 PM

36. Read. It helps.

I said the blogger is no name. Never heard of him. Sean Payton is a coach. Are you placing him on the same level with Brady? If a team was offered Brady or Payton who would they chose? If you say Payton then you don't watch football. Please give me a source that equates the skills of Brady to Payton in terms of winning football games.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #36)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:45 PM

39. You need a labor education

 

and I'm too busy to give it to you.

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Response to louis c (Reply #39)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:49 PM

42. LOL

I'll bet you are ....

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Response to louis c (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 7, 2015, 10:44 AM

47. The top tier coaches

Like Jimmie Johnson and Bill Parcells can dictate their contracts. Lesser lights like Payton have their contracts dictated to them.

Top flight rock bands can demand champagne, caviar, and cocaine be provided in their dressing room. Other rock bands do what the bar owner tells them to do.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #28)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:34 PM

34. I thought you seemed a little too rightward leaning for this site

 

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Response to louis c (Reply #34)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:41 PM

37. Now, personal attacks.

I knew that would come.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #20)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 06:19 PM

24. You may be right

Or ownership could have gotten together and agreed not to let any player have those rights. If that were the case, Brady wouldn't have been able to get it. Again, what were top players getting before the CBA? It's only a few years old. Did Brady negotiate for this before 2011? I don't know and I doubt you do either.

What we do know to be fact is that the arbitration and appeals rights he currently has come from the union negotiated CBA, alternate realities notwithstanding.

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Response to ShrimpPoboy (Reply #24)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 06:36 PM

26. The NFLPA was recognized in 1968.

I am not sure why you are using 2011. That was just the last negotiations. Knowing what players got before 1968 is like doing alternative history. It was a different world back then. Baseball was the #1 sport not the NFL. Now the NFL is #1. Since '68 billions of dollars of TV money has come into the game which has completely changed everything. Owners and players have become wealthy off of it.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #26)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:42 PM

38. Only unions protect workers' rights

 

Voices like yours have weakened the Democratic Party. Our most important ally is Labor. Without it, we lose nearly every national election.

Too many misinformed Democrats think like you and make my job of convincing our members to vote with us that much harder.

You really are a hindrance to our cause.

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Response to louis c (Reply #38)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:46 PM

40. Sorry I (and so many others) do not meet your standards.

BTW you don't speak for Labor. And you don't speak for Democrats.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #40)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 08:29 PM

44. At least you said you're sorry

 

and I only speak of you not understanding.

However, the whole Democratic Party could use a lesson in labor history and how important the working middle class is to our success.

We ignore these people at our peril.

Your ignorance on the subject speaks volumes and is an example of the electoral danger we encounter.

Duers are supposed to be the best informed Democrats, so that we can bring this message to those who are not so politically interested.

For having 15,000 posts, I'm surprised and disappointed at you lack of information which leads to your insulting position concerning unions.

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Response to louis c (Reply #44)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 08:51 PM

45. And I am disappointed in your personal attacks on me.

Which is what your posts have degenerated into. You have intentionally tried to distort my position on unions. You did not make a mistake. It was an intentional effort to distort. The posts are there for everyone to read.

And please stop sending me IMs. If you are going to make personal attacks do it out in the open.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #26)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 07:46 PM

41. kingforalldems is correct

 

you are not much of a Democrat.

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Response to louis c (Reply #41)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 08:05 PM

43. The key word being "NOT"

I couldn't agree with you more

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Response to louis c (Reply #41)

Mon Sep 7, 2015, 01:30 AM

46. Any you are not much of a labor person.

Despite your lame attempts to say you are. I was part of the struggle to get the UAW recognized at the world's biggest steel foundry in Portland, Or. My role is documented in the recently published book Radicals in the Rose City: Portland's Revolutionaries 1960-1975. What unions have you established? I was elected to be Chairman of the biggest Steelworker Union in Chicago three times. What Union have you been elected to? I think I know the answers to these questions...

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Response to former9thward (Reply #46)

Mon Sep 7, 2015, 01:19 PM

48. Are you kidding me?

 

I was elected as the Business Manager for 12 years at a 250 member union and re-elected 3 times. We merged with IBEW 103 in Boston.

I am now an organizer and a BA for that local and have brought in 120 new members since March.

Brady is a learning moment for people who usually don't want to know about unions. The protection afforded him by the NFLPA can be used as a lesson on belonging to a union.

I was at the Labor Day Breakfast in Boston, and President Obama said that "Brady was happy he was in a union."

That message didn't escape him.

And it hasn't escaped me.

Good luck in what you do for unions, but you don't know me, but if you want to converse through email, I'll show you all the work I've done over the past 25 years in the movement.


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Response to former9thward (Reply #46)

Mon Sep 7, 2015, 06:13 PM

50. Feel like an idiot yet?

 

Maybe you're smarter than these folks, too. By the way, I was at the Labor Day Breakfast with the President this morning. What did you do?

News


‘Brady Is Free’: Obama, Others Reference QB At Boston Labor Day Event

September 7, 2015 12:43 PM



BOSTON (CBS) – Football and politics don’t always go hand in hand. But on Labor Day in Boston they did, thanks to Patriots quarterback Tom Brady.

Brady, who successfully challenged his 4-game DeflateGate suspension, was referenced multiple times during the annual Labor Day union rally and breakfast at the Park Plaza Hotel in Boston.

Among those mentioning Brady was President Barack Obama, who didn’t waste any time with a DeflateGate reference.

“It’s always good to be back in Boston, especially when the weather’s like this. Pretty soon fall is going to be in the air. Students are coming back. The Pats kick off on Thursday. Brady is free,” Obama said with a smile.

“Even Brady’s happy he’s got a union,” the president said later in his speech. “When Brady needs a union, we definitely need a union.”

Earlier in the event, U.S. Sen. Ed Markey joked about Brady’s union success.

“No one will question the balls of a union member ever again,” joked Markey, referencing Brady and his allegedly deflated footballs.

Steve Tolman, president of the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations, mentioned Brady during his speech as well.

“It’s because of the union that Tom Brady had the right to challenge the unfair punishment handed down by the NFL,” Tolman told the crowd.

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Response to louis c (Reply #50)

Mon Sep 7, 2015, 06:44 PM

51. +1000

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Sun Sep 6, 2015, 06:56 PM

30. Yup.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

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