Fri Aug 21, 2015, 01:18 PM

Liberal_in_LA (44,397 posts)

daycare says baby is aggressive (9 months)

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/ridiculous-daycare-note-accuses-baby-of-being-112140326009.html

90 replies, 3985 views

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90 replies	Author	Time	Post
daycare says baby is aggressive (9 months) (Original post)	Liberal_in_LA	Aug 2015	OP
uh oh	randys1	Aug 2015	#1
GMTA...	pacalo	Aug 2015	#10
maybe...its another...	yuiyoshida	Aug 2015	#83
Or even this...	pacalo	Aug 2015	#90
What's wrong with the note?	frazzled	Aug 2015	#2
A 9 month old baby cannot be aggressive. That requires intention. And the only solution	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#18
A 9-month old baby can hit and bite and scratch	frazzled	Aug 2015	#22
And that is not aggression. And the solution is to control that baby's interactions	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#25
Would you send your child to a daycare center	Aerows	Aug 2015	#65
My child has been bitten by a friend's toddler.	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#66
Not a friend	Aerows	Aug 2015	#76
Yes, if I liked the teachers, the daycare, and thought they were correctly	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#78
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Aug 2015	#87
This should be a good thread LOL...yes babies and toddlers can show shitty behavior	snooper2	Aug 2015	#3
Amazing is right.	Octafish	Aug 2015	#6
Do me a favor, google ( 9 month old hitting )	snooper2	Aug 2015	#12
The moms need to read some actual books, then, and get some basic understanding	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#23
you are right nt	d_r	Aug 2015	#64
Nine month olds can be a handful but they are NOT aggressive. They aren't old enough	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#19
aggression does not require intent. yes, a nine month old can display aggression	cali	Aug 2015	#26
Roughness doesn't. Aggression does. We're talking about a 9 month old	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#31
When my boys were small, I found that at early ages,	Bettie	Aug 2015	#85
Hah! One of my babies bit me. HARD. Before he even left the NICU.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2015	#70
Get her into the police academy at once!	KamaAina	Aug 2015	#4
Or a business school, when she's old enough.	hifiguy	Aug 2015	#13
The responses at the source seem to be siding with the daycare!	REP	Aug 2015	#5
The letter isn't fine. It's ignorant and shows the daycare teacher	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#24
The word used was "aggressively"	REP	Aug 2015	#41
I don't think the word "aggressively" applies to babies either. It isn't equivalent	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#43
She'll be in the foreclosure business as soon as she learns to talk	jmowreader	Aug 2015	#7
My gently-reared daughter left a complete set of tooth-marks on another toddler's arm. At that point	Hekate	Aug 2015	#30
And my gentle friend's daughter clamped her teeth down on my daughter's arm	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#82
Call me OT!	Solly Mack	Aug 2015	#8
The daycare center is undoubtedly hearing from other parents.	blue neen	Aug 2015	#9
The daycare center is likely telling the other parents.	winter is coming	Aug 2015	#17
Oh yes, they have to document everything...	blue neen	Aug 2015	#58
It's ridiculous to call a 9 month old aggressive. A baby that age hasn't developed	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#21
ooh bull. the note was appropriate and polite. it described the child's behavior	cali	Aug 2015	#27
"Aggressive" isn't an accurate description of a 9 month old. This isn't a toddler; it's a baby.	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#29
I agree, but the daycare doesn't call her aggressive	gollygee	Aug 2015	#32
Because of the daycare's use of the word "aggressively" I don't think they do understand	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#36
I guess I give them the benefit of the doubt here	gollygee	Aug 2015	#37
Exactly! This is a supervision problem. It's probably going to take months of repetitive teaching	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#38
I don't think that "aggression" has to mean that there was intent to cause harm.	blue neen	Aug 2015	#56
I think it does when it's added to the word "roughly."	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#57
Yeah, I can see that.	blue neen	Aug 2015	#60
Nonsense it is just their imagination.	Rex	Aug 2015	#11
I hope that's a Halloween costume!	DawgHouse	Aug 2015	#14
Me too!	Rex	Aug 2015	#15
Man, that is just creepy. Almost as creepy as this....	smirkymonkey	Aug 2015	#49
Do they mean a stuffed dog?	TBF	Aug 2015	#16
The ratio was 1:4 when my daughter was that age. Even at that, kids go from	winter is coming	Aug 2015	#20
Oh I agree with that -	TBF	Aug 2015	#46
If memory serves, the first time my daughter was bitten, it was by a 9-month-old.	winter is coming	Aug 2015	#48
It's the choice of language that is problematic.	missingthebigdog	Aug 2015	#28
Apparently a lot of people don't. There are people in this thread who think the same thing.	kcr	Aug 2015	#40
Future Republican, maybe?	Jamastiene	Aug 2015	#33
But you aren't saying that means something is wrong with her	vanlassie	Aug 2015	#59
I guess that makes my son a future North Korean dictator.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2015	#71
"play roughly w/ her friends and her dog" is what I found interesting. Some parents allow their kids	Sunlei	Aug 2015	#34
Why did she write it in crayon and why is there a dog there? nt	Hekate	Aug 2015	#35
LOL...it's a baby.	Iggo	Aug 2015	#39
I know! surprised at the DU response	Liberal_in_LA	Aug 2015	#44
9 month old babies are learning what is and is not acceptable.	DawgHouse	Aug 2015	#42
Normally I would think "it's not possible for babies to be aggressive"	Marrah_G	Aug 2015	#45
Thoughtful response -	TBF	Aug 2015	#47
Brr. That is just a heartbreaker -- and I don't doubt you for a moment. nt	Hekate	Aug 2015	#53
What that kid needs is a good, swift beating.	smirkymonkey	Aug 2015	#50
My daughter was a biter. It was horrible.	cyberswede	Aug 2015	#51
If a baby is aggressive at 9 mos., I wonder who is being aggressive with that baby to teach	mother earth	Aug 2015	#52
It's a pretty normal stage of development for a lot of infants. They just need to be stopped...	Hekate	Aug 2015	#54
Seriously? You think there's something abnormal about a 9 month old	vanlassie	Aug 2015	#62
The way it's being described, yeah. I have a family, don't ever remember aggressive behavior	mother earth	Aug 2015	#69
You don't remember that a nine month old grabs	vanlassie	Aug 2015	#75
That's normal behavior, aggressive behavior is different. The day care person seems to be	mother earth	Aug 2015	#86
The teacher complaining about about normal behavior is probably the problem, not the baby.	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#80
Yes, she is describing aggressive behavior which is different than the normal antics of	mother earth	Aug 2015	#88
Everything a nine month old does is intentional.	vanlassie	Aug 2015	#89
No one teaches babies this and probably every nursing mother has experienced it,	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#79
Some kids are just like this	laundry_queen	Aug 2015	#55
Oh Crap-	ruffburr	Aug 2015	#61
CALL THE PRESSES, BABIES CRY!	Lancero	Aug 2015	#63
The parents should take the child to a psychiatrist and have her evaluated. Maybe the stress..	BlueJazz	Aug 2015	#67
Or she's teething?	Lancero	Aug 2015	#73
You're probably right. Rats..I was hoping we might have a young sociopath that we can study.	BlueJazz	Aug 2015	#74
Or maybe the teacher should take herself to a psychologist	pnwmom	Aug 2015	#81
I was kidding. I figured that's what some of the populace would try.	BlueJazz	Aug 2015	#84
There's nothing wrong with the note.	Captain Stern	Aug 2015	#68
It's the Original Sin in her!	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2015	#72
Before we all go off the deep end criticizing the daycare worker that wrote this note,	PatrickforO	Aug 2015	#77

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 01:26 PM

randys1 (16,286 posts)

1. uh oh

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Response to randys1 (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:50 PM

pacalo (24,719 posts)

10. GMTA...

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Response to pacalo (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:55 AM

yuiyoshida (34,251 posts)

83. maybe...its another...

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #83)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 08:13 PM

pacalo (24,719 posts)

90. Or even this...

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 01:29 PM

frazzled (17,945 posts)

2. What's wrong with the note?

Is it OK for this child to "hurt her friends" or torture the dog? I'm all for modeling behaviors of kindness from a young age and discouraging violence. And yes, I've seen 9-month-olds who can display these characteristics. All this note seems to be asking is the parents' cooperation in discouraging bad behavior. I think the staff is probably doing their jobs.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:35 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

18. A 9 month old baby cannot be aggressive. That requires intention. And the only solution

to babies and pets is to keep the pets out of reach.

This staff is either over-worked or under-skilled or both.

P.S. The reason the baby is still smiling and laughing is that she didn't hurt anyone else on purpose and doesn't know she hurt them. Her brain hasn't developed enough to understand that.

But the staff is supposed to be smart enough to keep them at a safe distance. Babies this age don't directly play with each other. At best, they "parallel play."

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:43 PM

frazzled (17,945 posts)

22. A 9-month old baby can hit and bite and scratch

other children. And they can understand enough language to be told that this is not a kind thing to do. That it hurts other people.

The aggression may not be intentional, but it physically exists. To ignore it is to do a disservice to that child, who will face deficits in socialization skills when they arrive at pre-school age in a few years. And socialization is the most important skill pre-schoolers learn in preparation for their education.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:49 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

25. And that is not aggression. And the solution is to control that baby's interactions

with others while you teach appropriate behavior.

Yes, you teach the baby not to engage in those behaviors. But you don't substitute a label like "aggressive" for doing your job.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:57 PM

Aerows (39,961 posts)

65. Would you send your child to a daycare center

that had a child displaying such behavior?

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Response to Aerows (Reply #65)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:07 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

66. My child has been bitten by a friend's toddler.

And I didn't drop the friend. We just prevented them from getting within biting distance till the toddler was over that stage.

And my granddaughter has been going to a daycare where babies could get too rough with each other -- if the adults allowed that to happen. With good enough supervision, it's a rare occasion.

You don't have children, do you? If you haven't seen a lot of babies and toddlers you won't know how common this is. And you might not understand that there's a huge difference between a 9 month old baby, like this one, and a 19 month old toddler.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #66)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:32 AM

Aerows (39,961 posts)

76. Not a friend

Service you are paying for. Big difference. Would you pay for your child to be in a daycare center with a child that bites them?

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Response to Aerows (Reply #76)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:54 AM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

78. Yes, if I liked the teachers, the daycare, and thought they were correctly

handling the situation.

On the other hand, I wouldn't stick with a daycare that treated 9 month old babies like potential little monsters.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #18)

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 01:34 PM

snooper2 (30,151 posts)

3. This should be a good thread LOL...yes babies and toddlers can show shitty behavior

amazing isn't it!

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:36 PM

Octafish (55,745 posts)

6. Amazing is right.

Behaving shitty, I doubt it. They're babies. Even you should see that, snooper2.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:56 PM

snooper2 (30,151 posts)

12. Do me a favor, google ( 9 month old hitting )

Then start reading all the links with calls for help from moms out there...

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:45 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

23. The moms need to read some actual books, then, and get some basic understanding

of a 9 month old's developmental state. They WILL hurt each other if allowed to get too close, because they don't know their own power AND they lack empathy. That requires a level of brain development that hasn't occurred yet.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:05 PM

d_r (6,341 posts)

64. you are right nt

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:37 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

19. Nine month olds can be a handful but they are NOT aggressive. They aren't old enough

to have developed any empathy. It's the job of adults to separate babies that are too rough with each other.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:59 PM

cali (114,904 posts)

26. aggression does not require intent. yes, a nine month old can display aggression

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Response to cali (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:16 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

31. Roughness doesn't. Aggression does. We're talking about a 9 month old

who isn't old enough to have empathy.

http://raisingchildren.net.au/articles/pinching,_biting_and_hair_pulling.html

At 6-9 months of age, your baby is stronger and more able to control her body. She can reach, grab, tug and bite. But she is still too young to be aggressive in the sense of intending to hurt. She is just beginning to connect cause and effect.

Your baby watches something dropped again and again, fascinated to discover that it always falls to the floor. For the same reason, your baby might grab your face again and again, because he finds your response interesting. He is still months away from connecting the look of pain on your face with the unpleasant sensations he sometimes feels himself.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #31)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:09 AM

Bettie (10,663 posts)

85. When my boys were small, I found that at early ages,

redirecting them was helpful when they were getting rough.

It seems odd that these providers don't know that basic bit of childcare, get them interested in something else!

Stuff like this makes me so thankful that I was able to stay home with my kids.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:46 PM

Crunchy Frog (23,373 posts)

70. Hah! One of my babies bit me. HARD. Before he even left the NICU.

Rotten little shit!

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:27 PM

KamaAina (78,249 posts)

4. Get her into the police academy at once!

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:00 PM

hifiguy (33,688 posts)

13. Or a business school, when she's old enough.

Seriously, though, this note didn't come out of nowhere. Some people are born mean, aggressive and lacking in empathy. Ask any academic psychologist.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:34 PM

REP (21,691 posts)

5. The responses at the source seem to be siding with the daycare!

The consensus seems to be that the note is appropriate and the mommy got her feelings hurt that her precious poopsy needed some attention.

It seems fine to me: it's polite, and asks for the parents' help in coming up with a solution that benefits everyone.

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Response to REP (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:46 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

24. The letter isn't fine. It's ignorant and shows the daycare teacher

doesn't understand basic developmental information about babies. A baby this age might play roughly, but isn't aggressive. They just don't have the brain development yet to have empathy.

The adults aren't supposed to be putting them in a position where they can hurt each other.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:37 PM

REP (21,691 posts)

41. The word used was "aggressively"

Which is an adverb, which describes an action, not a person. The baby wasn't called aggressive; her style of play was described as aggressive. It's an easy mistake to make.

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Response to REP (Reply #41)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:01 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

43. I don't think the word "aggressively" applies to babies either. It isn't equivalent

to the word "roughly," which she also used and I don't object to.

Using the two words together implies that she not only was rough -- she was behaving aggressively. And that implies an ability to form intent that a 9 month old still lacks.

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:41 PM

jmowreader (44,588 posts)

7. She'll be in the foreclosure business as soon as she learns to talk

Sounds like someone currently suffering from terminal butthurt needs a home study...there is no known "asshole" gene, it's a learned behavior; the only place she could have learned this is at home.

Reply to this post

Response to jmowreader (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:15 PM

Hekate (67,143 posts)

30. My gently-reared daughter left a complete set of tooth-marks on another toddler's arm. At that point

...I gave up my feminist dream of building some kind of separate identity and decided to stay home awhile longer. That was 1976.

Let me just say she has always had strong opinions, but now owns her own preschool devoted to letting children munch dirt and settle everything compassionately and nonviolently. She doesn't bite anybody.

The one who really, really needed to have me home for several years was her younger brother, who was a much softer baby. But I had to go earn a living when he was 18 months old, and we just had to deal. He doesn't bite anybody either.

Somethings are normal infant behavior -- within a range mind you.

Something my mother used to say with irony was: Children are born savages, and it is our job to civilize them.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #30)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:08 AM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

82. And my gentle friend's daughter clamped her teeth down on my daughter's arm

a couple times. She wasn't a future sociopath, just a toddler who hadn't learned to control her impulses yet.

But it was extremely embarrassing for the mom.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:44 PM

Solly Mack (81,956 posts)

8. Call me OT!

(original toddler)

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:50 PM

blue neen (11,586 posts)

9. The daycare center is undoubtedly hearing from other parents.

They have a responsibility to all of the children. The note was written politely and factually.

It's not ridiculous, IMHO.

Reply to this post

Response to blue neen (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:31 PM

winter is coming (11,785 posts)

17. The daycare center is likely telling the other parents.

I know we got a note and a verbal explanation every time my daughter was bitten, even when it wasn't hard enough to leave a mark.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:11 PM

blue neen (11,586 posts)

58. Oh yes, they have to document everything...

...can't say that I blame them.

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Response to blue neen (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:39 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

21. It's ridiculous to call a 9 month old aggressive. A baby that age hasn't developed

empathy. It's the daycare worker's job to keep babies that age from accidentally -- not intentionally -- hurting each other. They aren't intentionally hurting each other. They don't know about each other's feelings yet.

Reply to this post

Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:02 PM

cali (114,904 posts)

27. ooh bull. the note was appropriate and polite. it described the child's behavior

Reply to this post

Response to cali (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:09 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

29. "Aggressive" isn't an accurate description of a 9 month old. This isn't a toddler; it's a baby.

http://raisingchildren.net.au/articles/pinching,_biting_and_hair_pulling.html

At 6-9 months of age, your baby is stronger and more able to control her body. She can reach, grab, tug and bite. But she is still too young to be aggressive in the sense of intending to hurt. She is just beginning to connect cause and effect.

Your baby watches something dropped again and again, fascinated to discover that it always falls to the floor. For the same reason, your baby might grab your face again and again, because he finds your response interesting. He is still months away from connecting the look of pain on your face with the unpleasant sensations he sometimes feels himself.

Reply to this post

Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:19 PM

gollygee (22,331 posts)

32. I agree, but the daycare doesn't call her aggressive

If you read the note, it says she plays rough and thinks it's fun because she keeps smiling. She's too young to understand that she can hurt people, but the daycare seems to understand that.

I don't understand why this is called "daycare says baby is aggressive" when I don't see that precise word used, or even "aggression" described.

Edit: It says she plays "aggressively" but I guess I don't read that as callilng her aggressive, just noting that her behavior is hurting other kids. But that word should have been kept out. Minus that word, I think the note is fine.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #32)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:24 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

36. Because of the daycare's use of the word "aggressively" I don't think they do understand

that her smiling means she has no intent to hurt anyone. I think they were criticizing the baby for "enjoying" another baby's pain.

Reply to this post

Response to pnwmom (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:30 PM

gollygee (22,331 posts)

37. I guess I give them the benefit of the doubt here

for two reasons. One, daycares don't require advanced education in writing or any other kind of communication. I think it's an unfair expectation that a daycare worker choose perfect words. Two, the description sounds fair and reasonable, other than that word. Babies that age do sometimes play rough without knowing what they're doing.

I don't know what the parents can do about it though. It isn't like you can simply explain this stuff to a baby. You can hold her hand and say "gentle hands" over and over again, but it's going to take a while. It is largely a supervision problem, because it's also an unfair expectation that every 9-month-old baby is going to understand how to play appropriately. She's a baby! They reach and grab and flail their arms around and have no idea how it's affecting anyone else. Some babies are quieter than others, and some are less physical than others, but none of them are bad.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #37)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:32 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

38. Exactly! This is a supervision problem. It's probably going to take months of repetitive teaching

and months of brain development before this baby gets over this phase.

In the meantime, they have to keep other babies out of harm's way.

Reply to this post

Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:08 PM

blue neen (11,586 posts)

56. I don't think that "aggression" has to mean that there was intent to cause harm.

The child is of the age where she can be starting to learn what "be gentle" means. Yes, it is the daycare worker's job to keep babies safe. It is also the parents' job to teach the child "we don't hit".

Reply to this post

Response to blue neen (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:10 PM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

57. I think it does when it's added to the word "roughly."

The word "roughly" is a neutral term that simply describes the behavior -- and was appropriate. Adding the word "aggressively," however, and then noting that the baby was smiling and "enjoying herself" put a different spin on it. As if the baby was enjoying being mean.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #57)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:14 PM

blue neen (11,586 posts)

60. Yeah, I can see that.

We also don't know if there were other communications between daycare and parents on this subject.

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:55 PM

Rex (65,616 posts)

11. Nonsense it is just their imagination.

Reply to this post

Response to Rex (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:15 PM

DawgHouse (4,019 posts)

14. I hope that's a Halloween costume!

LOL

Reply to this post

Response to DawgHouse (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:18 PM

Rex (65,616 posts)

15. Me too!

"OFF to pre-K with my knife and reeeeeveeeennnge!"

Reply to this post

Response to Rex (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:23 PM

smirkymonkey (58,505 posts)

49. Man, that is just creepy. Almost as creepy as this....

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=

&imgrefurl=http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/disaster-girl&h=450&w=600&tbnid=cZGHQTyjM3D4AM:&docid=MmcplNcSuQx07M&ei=erLXVdjJLoP0-AHQt6OQCA&tbm=isch&ved=0CB4QMygBMAFqFQoTCNjuhrmou8cCFQM6Pgod0NsIgg

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:23 PM

TBF (31,860 posts)

16. Do they mean a stuffed dog?

Otherwise that comment is a little strange. I wonder though if the baby is playing "roughly" at home? It makes me think that the teachers are trying to cover their own lack of attentiveness. At that age legally the ratio is very small - one teacher to 6 babies if I remember correctly. I wonder if babies were going home with bruises or something and they are blaming the other babies rather than supervising properly? I dunno, this note makes me ask a lot of questions. Not that babies don't have very different personalities, but that's really young to expect them to "play" together without supervision.

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Response to TBF (Reply #16)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:37 PM

winter is coming (11,785 posts)

20. The ratio was 1:4 when my daughter was that age. Even at that, kids go from

"happy" to "bite my best friend" in an eyeblink. It's not possible to stop all of the incidents.

Reply to this post

Response to winter is coming (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:50 PM

TBF (31,860 posts)

46. Oh I agree with that -

but I can't recall at what age they start biting. I thought that was more like 18 mos. This was a 6-9 mos old baby I thought. Maybe I misread.

Reply to this post

Response to TBF (Reply #46)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:54 PM

winter is coming (11,785 posts)

48. If memory serves, the first time my daughter was bitten, it was by a 9-month-old.

The last time, by a 5-year-old. It does seem to be pretty common in the 18-24 month range, though.

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:03 PM

missingthebigdog (1,186 posts)

28. It's the choice of language that is problematic.

Nobody should doubt that nine month-olds are capable of hitting and playing rough, but the note makes it sound as if this child is getting some kind of gratification out of hurting other kids.

It is appropriate to report that there was a hitting incident, or a biting incident. But reporting that she is smiling while they are crying makes the note about her personality and not about her behavior. The concern seems to be about her reaction to hurting the other kids- not the fact that she hurt them. I doubt that the daycare provider is qualified to make that kind of assessment.

There are some clues here that the writer of the note doesn't "get" where kids this age are developmentally. Nine month-olds usually have to be physically redirected- "using firm voices to tell her it's not ok to hurt her friends" is meaningless to her. The concept of "friends" is beyond her at this point.

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Response to missingthebigdog (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:36 PM

kcr (14,264 posts)

40. Apparently a lot of people don't. There are people in this thread who think the same thing.

I just shouldn't be shocked anymore at the amazing things I learn. Including how many people think 9 month old babies show aggression with normal baby behavior.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:20 PM

Jamastiene (38,088 posts)

33. Future Republican, maybe?

It would be interesting to see how the kid turns out once she is grown. She sounds like she hasn't learned that causing pain to others is not a good thing.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:14 PM

vanlassie (3,169 posts)

59. But you aren't saying that means something is wrong with her

are you? At nine months OF COURSE she hasn't learned. She's too young.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:54 PM

Crunchy Frog (23,373 posts)

71. I guess that makes my son a future North Korean dictator.

He bit me for the first time before he was even out of the NICU.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:20 PM

Sunlei (22,647 posts)

34. "play roughly w/ her friends and her dog" is what I found interesting. Some parents allow their kids

to be rough with pets, they expect the pets to tolerate this and most pets do.

However even babies can be taught to be gentle with pets and that training will translate to better, more gentle behavior with their peers. (friends)

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:21 PM

Hekate (67,143 posts)

35. Why did she write it in crayon and why is there a dog there? nt

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:32 PM

Iggo (43,997 posts)

39. LOL...it's a baby.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #39)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:05 PM

Liberal_in_LA (44,397 posts)

44. I know! surprised at the DU response

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:42 PM

DawgHouse (4,019 posts)

42. 9 month old babies are learning what is and is not acceptable.

My step son and his family moved in with us for a while and I had a blast playing with my granddaughter.

She was about nine months old when she started grabbing hair or snatching eye glasses whenever you'd pick her up. She thought it was hilarious, because it was funny how people would move their heads to dodge her grabby fingers.

When she grabbed toward my glasses, I said, "NO! I don't like that." and firmly held her hand. She tried a few more times but very shortly figured out that I didn't like that game. She stopped playing Grab the Glasses / Pull the Hair with me after just a few times.

My husband was holding her once and she made a grab for his glasses and he just moved his head real quick to get out of her reach. She cackled and I told him, "Don't let her do that. Just tell her no, it's not nice and you don't like it."

Really, how are they supposed to know if you don't tell them? This little girl obviously thinks it's a game and everyone is having as much fun as she is.

My point is, yeah a nine month old baby can play aggressively and get a kick out of it. Doesn't mean she's evil incarnate, just testing the waters to see what is acceptable.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:13 PM

Marrah_G (28,581 posts)

45. Normally I would think "it's not possible for babies to be aggressive"

But my life experience taught me otherwise. My former sister in law (20 years younger then myself) was born mentally ill. Before she was a year old she was lashing out if she did not get her way. She was maybe 18 months old when I was babysitting and she kept going into her room and throwing everything off the dresser. When I stood in the doorway to block her path, she bit me. Through jeans and drew blood. She meant to do it and it made her happy.

She got worse as she got older and ended up spending much of her childhood in residential schools/treatment centers who could better deal with the violent outbursts.

Sometimes kids are just born with broken brains.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 05:52 PM

TBF (31,860 posts)

47. Thoughtful response -

you may be on to something there.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:36 PM

Hekate (67,143 posts)

53. Brr. That is just a heartbreaker -- and I don't doubt you for a moment. nt

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:25 PM

smirkymonkey (58,505 posts)

50. What that kid needs is a good, swift beating.

*kidding*

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:31 PM

cyberswede (26,117 posts)

51. My daughter was a biter. It was horrible.

At the time, I remember thinking that I'd prefer she were the bitee rather than the biter. Lots of guilt feelings, as parents. We met with a child psychologist who determined that she was really smart and utterly frustrated that she couldn't communicate her thoughts/feelings verbally, so she would act out physically. The daycare center/staff were awesome, and they just made sure to keep a close watch on her until the phase subsided.

I almost dressed her as a vampire the next Halloween, but I chickened out?

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:33 PM

mother earth (6,002 posts)

52. If a baby is aggressive at 9 mos., I wonder who is being aggressive with that baby to teach

her this sort of interaction? There's an issue in the family, that's where everything is learned, 9 mos. is extremely young to exhibit aggression, if it is really what is being displayed.

Reply to this post

Response to mother earth (Reply #52)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:43 PM

Hekate (67,143 posts)

54. It's a pretty normal stage of development for a lot of infants. They just need to be stopped...

As in, not just saying "No, no" but in actively, physically removing them from the behavior while you say "No." Eventually they will outgrow it, just like they outgrow poopy diapers, but it is the adults' job to teach them, and not to allow them hurt others.

I have known parents who think they taught their baby to stop biting by being bitten by a grownup, but that is stupid and abusive.

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Response to mother earth (Reply #52)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:20 PM

vanlassie (3,169 posts)

62. Seriously? You think there's something abnormal about a 9 month old

exhibiting the behaviors described? They are totally age appropriate. Totally.

Reply to this post

Response to vanlassie (Reply #62)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:31 PM

mother earth (6,002 posts)

69. The way it's being described, yeah. I have a family, don't ever remember aggressive behavior

in a 9 month old, a two year old - that might be considered age appropriate (its called terrible two's for a reason), at 9 mos., I think it's maybe a red flag, or the kid is being battled with by siblings at home, perhaps? I don't see it as being age appropriate, it's being described in a 9 month old, do I need to stress that?

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Response to mother earth (Reply #69)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:27 AM

vanlassie (3,169 posts)

75. You don't remember that a nine month old grabs

everything they can get a hold on? And won't let go? That they do NOTHING on request? That they laugh and cry on their own whims? That they don't know what "play nice" means? Not a clue? They have gone from totally helpless to crawling around with barely enough muscle memory to almost get where they want, and get what they want, in the messiest possible way? In less than a year? That they will not develop empathy unless their needs are fully met for several more years?

A nine month old is the most primitive mobile human there is. FFS. Expecting pretty much anything from a nine month old is just silly. And misguided. It worries me.

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Response to vanlassie (Reply #75)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:50 AM

mother earth (6,002 posts)

86. That's normal behavior, aggressive behavior is different. The day care person seems to be

describing something different.

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Response to mother earth (Reply #69)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:01 AM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

80. The teacher complaining about about normal behavior is probably the problem, not the baby.

She says the baby plays too roughly. Well, that's not surprising. But that isn't the same as being aggressive, which is the conclusion the teacher came to.

Reply to this post

Response to pnwmom (Reply #80)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:55 AM

mother earth (6,002 posts)

88. Yes, she is describing aggressive behavior which is different than the normal antics of

babies that age, she seems to be describing intentional aggression, as opposed to the playing behaviors babies generally use as part of the learning process.

Reply to this post

Response to mother earth (Reply #88)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:04 PM

vanlassie (3,169 posts)

89. Everything a nine month old does is intentional.

Please. Spend a day with a nine month old. They act like drunks!

Reply to this post

Response to mother earth (Reply #52)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:59 AM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

79. No one teaches babies this and probably every nursing mother has experienced it,

if they nurse past the point where the first teeth come in. Ouch!

You are right that 9 months is extremely young to exhibit aggression. When a baby of 9 months plays too "roughly," she isn't being aggressive. She's just being a baby who doesn't know her own strength and hasn't yet developed empathy. That takes a level of brain development that most 9 month olds lack.

That's why they have mothers and fathers and teachers to care for them.

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:08 PM

laundry_queen (8,646 posts)

55. Some kids are just like this

My 3rd daughter had some small issues with hitting at around that age. I had no problems teaching her to be nice and not hit. It was quite easy. My 4th daughter pulled hair and giggled when we would scream. Again, no problems teaching her to be gentle. Mostly, I would teach them that their actions affected others...I would hold their hands and show them how to touch gently. So if they hit, it would go like this. "No! Ow! That hurts! Gentle. See?<take hand and show how to touch gently and smile to show her my demeanor has changed> that's better. Thank you for being gentle. When you hit it hurts mommy, and that makes me sad. Mommy likes when you are gentle, that makes me happy." I only had to do that a couple of times.

I see nothing wrong with the note at all. Some parents think a 9 month old cannot be taught anything and that's wrong. I had a friend who had a baby at the same time I did...by the time the babies were 10 months old we could not visit anymore, because her daughter would crawl over to my daughter, pull on my dd's clothes and hair to pull herself up to her feet and then literally BEAT on my daughter and squeal with delight while my child howled with outrage. My friend thought it was the funniest thing ever and did nothing to deter her daughter. After awhile when we'd visit my daughter would start crying as soon as they came in the door and would not stop clinging to me. So the visits stopped. If my friend had done even a little bit of redirecting, it probably wouldn't have gotten so bad. She moved away a few months after the babies turned 2, so we never got to see if they would have gotten over it.

But yeah, I think in some cases it's good for parents to be aware their child's behavior needs some correction. I don't think the daycare is being ridiculous if this is an ongoing issue. MOST kids will try hitting but don't like the reaction they get and stop. If people laugh or think it's funny, the kid will keep hitting. So, perhaps, as the daycare suggested, discouraging her at home too would help. The way people are outraged tells me that too many parents encourage this kind of behavior and are being quite defensive. Sure, babies don't understand they are hurting people - that's why it's our job to teach them that they are...and if the baby is getting mixed messages at home vs at the daycare, it may make the behavior worse. And so, the note. Perhaps a face-to-face would've been more productive, but I don't find the wording that bad. YMMV I guess.

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:15 PM

ruffburr (1,190 posts)

61. Oh Crap-

Another Young Republican!!!

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:24 PM

Lancero (2,092 posts)

63. CALL THE PRESSES, BABIES CRY!

Last edited Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Oh wait, you mean this isn't headliner news, and that everyone knows that babies sometimes cry?

Well, almost everybody.

As for the biting, she's probably teething. Usually happens at 6th months, but anything between 3 and a year is normal. Get her a pacifier already, problem solved.

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:36 PM

BlueJazz (25,348 posts)

67. The parents should take the child to a psychiatrist and have her evaluated. Maybe the stress..

...of home life is causing her to take out her aggression with the other normal children. Either that or I'm full of shit.

Reply to this post

Response to BlueJazz (Reply #67)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:04 PM

Lancero (2,092 posts)

73. Or she's teething?

It's a bit later then usual - generally 6 months, though anything between 3 and 12 is considered normal.

Babies tend to bite a lot when teething, so...

Reply to this post

Response to Lancero (Reply #73)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:26 PM

BlueJazz (25,348 posts)

74. You're probably right. Rats..I was hoping we might have a young sociopath that we can study.

Reply to this post

Response to BlueJazz (Reply #67)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:02 AM

pnwmom (104,071 posts)

81. Or maybe the teacher should take herself to a psychologist

and ask that person to explain normal childhood development.

Reply to this post

Response to pnwmom (Reply #81)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:29 AM

BlueJazz (25,348 posts)

84. I was kidding. I figured that's what some of the populace would try.

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:42 PM

Captain Stern (1,783 posts)

68. There's nothing wrong with the note.

The daycare isn't saying the baby is a bad person, or that the parents are bad. They are letting the parents know what is going on, and asking for their help in setting the small problem right.

This is a nontroversy. The only place this could possibly ever be argued about is on the internet. Is the baby aggressive? Can a baby be aggressive? Does using the word "aggressively" mean the same thing as aggressive? Is it hurtful to somebody to use any form of the word agress when speaking about a baby? IT DOESN"T MATTER. It's just a damn note to the parents letting them know what their kid is up to, and asking for their help in fixing the small problem.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:00 PM

Crunchy Frog (23,373 posts)

72. It's the Original Sin in her!

I never realized that DU was so full of Calvinists.

I'm impressed with the daycare worker's handwriting though. It's almost as good as my 6 1/2 year old sons'.

Reply to this post

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:47 AM

PatrickforO (12,322 posts)

77. Before we all go off the deep end criticizing the daycare worker that wrote this note,

let's all remember that the median earnings for a child care worker in the USA is $8.25/hour.

This is because, as a society, we've chosen to use our public monies to fight stupid, immoral wars, spy on citizens, continue a failed drug war, and we have spent huge sums in the red because of Republican tax cuts.

In the meantime, the super rich, and many Fortune 500 corporations have 'offshored' over $32 trillion in UNTAXED profits, again because of Republican tax cuts and loopholes.

The result is that we don't have enough money to subsidize child care as we should. So, if you have an infant, like this 9 month old, you are paying upwards of $1,800 per month for child care, most of which goes to provide an 25% profit margin for the owners, overhead and finally staff.

But, hey, we can ALL feel better that the AVERAGE salary of a CEO in America is $11.7 million!

This is the DU member formerly known as PatrickforO.

Reply to this post

General Discussion (Forum)

daycare says baby is aggressive (9 months)

1. uh oh

10. GMTA...

83. maybe...its another...

90. Or even this...

2. What's wrong with the note?

18. A 9 month old baby cannot be aggressive. That requires intention. And the only solution

22. A 9-month old baby can hit and bite and scratch

25. And that is not aggression. And the solution is to control that baby's interactions

65. Would you send your child to a daycare center

66. My child has been bitten by a friend's toddler.

76. Not a friend

78. Yes, if I liked the teachers, the daycare, and thought they were correctly

3. This should be a good thread LOL...yes babies and toddlers can show shitty behavior

6. Amazing is right.

12. Do me a favor, google ( 9 month old hitting )

23. The moms need to read some actual books, then, and get some basic understanding

64. you are right nt

19. Nine month olds can be a handful but they are NOT aggressive. They aren't old enough

26. aggression does not require intent. yes, a nine month old can display aggression

31. Roughness doesn't. Aggression does. We're talking about a 9 month old

85. When my boys were small, I found that at early ages,

70. Hah! One of my babies bit me. HARD. Before he even left the NICU.

4. Get her into the police academy at once!

13. Or a business school, when she's old enough.

5. The responses at the source seem to be siding with the daycare!

24. The letter isn't fine. It's ignorant and shows the daycare teacher

41. The word used was "aggressively"

43. I don't think the word "aggressively" applies to babies either. It isn't equivalent

7. She'll be in the foreclosure business as soon as she learns to talk

30. My gently-reared daughter left a complete set of tooth-marks on another toddler's arm. At that point

82. And my gentle friend's daughter clamped her teeth down on my daughter's arm

8. Call me OT!

9. The daycare center is undoubtedly hearing from other parents.

17. The daycare center is likely *telling* the other parents.

58. Oh yes, they have to document everything...

21. It's ridiculous to call a 9 month old aggressive. A baby that age hasn't developed

27. ooh bull. the note was appropriate and polite. it described the child's behavior

29. "Aggressive" isn't an accurate description of a 9 month old. This isn't a toddler; it's a baby.

32. I agree, but the daycare doesn't call her aggressive

36. Because of the daycare's use of the word "aggressively" I don't think they do understand

37. I guess I give them the benefit of the doubt here

38. Exactly! This is a supervision problem. It's probably going to take months of repetitive teaching

56. I don't think that "aggression" has to mean that there was intent to cause harm.

57. I think it does when it's added to the word "roughly."

60. Yeah, I can see that.

11. Nonsense it is just their imagination.

14. I hope that's a Halloween costume!

15. Me too!

49. Man, that is just creepy. Almost as creepy as this....

16. Do they mean a stuffed dog?

20. The ratio was 1:4 when my daughter was that age. Even at that, kids go from

46. Oh I agree with that -

48. If memory serves, the first time my daughter was bitten, it was by a 9-month-old.

28. It's the choice of language that is problematic.

40. Apparently a lot of people don't. There are people in this thread who think the same thing.

33. Future Republican, maybe?

59. But you aren't saying that means something is wrong with her

71. I guess that makes my son a future North Korean dictator.

34. "play roughly w/ her friends and her dog" is what I found interesting. Some parents allow their kids

35. Why did she write it in crayon and why is there a dog there? nt

39. LOL...it's a baby.

44. I know! surprised at the DU response

42. 9 month old babies are learning what is and is not acceptable.

45. Normally I would think "it's not possible for babies to be aggressive"

47. Thoughtful response -

53. Brr. That is just a heartbreaker -- and I don't doubt you for a moment. nt

50. What that kid needs is a good, swift beating.

51. My daughter was a biter. It was horrible.

52. If a baby is aggressive at 9 mos., I wonder who is being aggressive with that baby to teach

54. It's a pretty normal stage of development for a lot of infants. They just need to be stopped...

62. Seriously? You think there's something abnormal about a 9 month old

69. The way it's being described, yeah. I have a family, don't ever remember aggressive behavior

75. You don't remember that a nine month old grabs

86. That's normal behavior, aggressive behavior is different. The day care person seems to be

80. The teacher complaining about about normal behavior is probably the problem, not the baby.

88. Yes, she is describing aggressive behavior which is different than the normal antics of

89. Everything a nine month old does is intentional.

79. No one teaches babies this and probably every nursing mother has experienced it,

55. Some kids are just like this

17. The daycare center is likely telling the other parents.