General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTired of groups recklessly calling other liberals racist, misogynist, etc.
Last edited Mon Aug 10, 2015, 04:58 PM - Edit history (2)
That's it. I'm done with this shit.
If you can't recognize that people are liberals for a reason and grant them the benefit of the doubt before you recklessly out them to the world as "racist" or "misogynist" based on the tiniest of information, like color and gender and the fact that maybe they declined your invitation to a party or sleepover.
Well, then fuck you, then.
Some people have suffered too much personally on the way to and as liberals to now listen to your shit about how horrible humans they are just because they happen to be in your line of sight and don't look like you or disappointed you on a personal level that you've now decided is an indicator of their political stance on your obsessive pet cause - yourself and only people that look like you. Really. Try helping someone else besides yourself some time.
You're suffering matters. But nobody loves a whiner who thinks their cause trumps and has a monopoly over the suffering of everybody else.
Therefore, I am no longer supporting any liberal or liberal group that attacks other liberals as racist, misogynist or homophobic as if they were right wing extremists.
Unless they explicitly admit to it, it should be a given that a liberal is none of those.
To clarify, I still support NOW, I still love Rev. Al and support the LGBT alliance.
For the longest time I thought such accusations and treatment of other liberals made sense because, obviously, racism, misogyny and homophobia was bad. Duh.
But it's becoming more and more obvious that such accusations are being used against other liberals by the slower but more angry members of these groups more out of the psychological need for power and control over others than out of a real call for justice. But the game is becoming more and more obvious.
In other words, it's a power thing to them, not a justice thing, as can be often observed by their complete disregard for fairness and justice for others.
As such, I am withdrawing my support and defense of such liberals and liberals groups that attack other liberals with accusations of "tone deafness", "racism", "misogyny", "homophobia" or any other variant of bigotry typically seen among right wing extremists.
Also, I will make it my job to publicly expose and confront such power obsessed liberals on an individual level.
It's time we stop letting other reckless hateful and power obsessed liberals create the narrative for who we are politically and personally.
NOTE to Mods: This thread is not about this happening on DU, although it does. It is about it happening in the entire liberal community from the Bernie Sanders rallies, to The Daily Show backstage, to our families.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)confronting them and exposing them every time I conclude they are motivated by power and control over others rather than justice.
Response to Shankapotomus (Original post)
gobears10 This message was self-deleted by its author.
LuvNewcastle
(16,844 posts)Sooner or later, people get tired of being called ugly names. It's a hell of a strategy, anyway, to insult people in order to enlist them for your cause. That's why I think these people aren't leaders of BLM or anything else. If they were, they would be smarter about how they portray themselves and how they attempt to gain support.
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)Sanders and O'Malley were "not humble enough." What kind of message did that send, and why, in the aftermath, should we be surprised at the total lack of respect being shown to white liberals by certain BLM members? I wouldn't let leadership slide from the Seattle fiasco.
LuvNewcastle
(16,844 posts)I'm sorry to say that, too, because something like BLM is going to have to come along to start a movement to bring change to our justice system. But these Bernie bashers aren't doing anything constructive to build what we need to get this system overhauled. I'm hoping that most BLM members find better leaders who will help us come together to do what is right for America.
I think the reason why we're seeing events unfold like this is because there seems to be a leadership vacuum in the black community these days. When I was growing up, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton were very visible leaders, but I can't think of anyone young today who has any real authority to lead. When there is a power vacuum, all sorts of people come along to try and fill that void, and at least some of them will be disreputable. No one should get too worked up over it; these things have a way of shaking out eventually.
Baitball Blogger
(46,700 posts)Most unfortunate phrase. There's a lot of bad history connected to those words when they're launched at minorities, so I'm shocked to hear that a minority leader applied it to a Democratic candidate.
LuvNewcastle
(16,844 posts)'too uppity,' doesn't it?
Baitball Blogger
(46,700 posts)Most unfortunate phrase. Shows that this protest is not well thought out.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)BLM is working overtime trying to alienate erstwhile allies. A rather bizarre strategy, if they want to build a movement...but entirely logical if they're just political tools to take down another movement.
MH1
(17,600 posts)But I damn sure won't be supporting any group that labels me a "white supremacist liberal" without even fucking knowing me or what I do.
And frankly I think "BowDownTrump" or "BowDownBush" would make me just as sick to the stomach as does "BowDownBernie". It is so incredibly insulting on a personal level that has absolutely nothing to do with the issues but expresses a wish to overpower and humiliate. I could halfway even understand it - without endorsing it - if the target were someone who had publicly sought to overpower and humiliate black people. But Bernie Sanders? Ugh, just ugh.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)HFRN
(1,469 posts)and some will knee-jerk 'but that cant be true, he was talking about Communism'
I'm talking about tactic, not issue. And I suppose he only threw around one label 'communist' as opposed to multiple names "racist", "misogynist", "homophobe" etc. But those names are really just synonyms for 'bigot'. And synonyms for 'bigot' sometimes get thrown around on this site as recklessly as Senator Joe McCarthy threw around 'Communist'.
There is one difference though, back in the 50's people only put up with this tactic for so long, before asking 'at long last senator, have you no decency?', and he was done.
Perhaps in the early 1950s, people were actually more progressive in some ways?
It's sad because I don't want to undermine these causes. But, for some, it's really not about politics though they claim it to be so I think it's about their personal fears of interacting with a representative of "the enemy", which may have a basis in reality, that manifests itself in obsessive need to seize the moral high ground with reckless accusations any physical "representative" of the oppressive group. To me, it seems such reactionaries are struggling more with personal fears than an actual instance of bigotry.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)As will be made apparent in the replies to this post, you are correct that some people cannot separate an ideology of a group from the tactics used by that group.
The Brownshirts demonstrated that a numerically small group can amplify its power by disrupting the events of their opponents.
They were effective.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)I've also noticed that there are some people/groups who throw out claims in an effort to shut off debate because they realize how powerful that tactic is.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)'because my issue is important, and I have the judgement to know when to use it and when not to', they inevitably get fatigued, careless and numb to the tactic - or worse, get addicted to the control it gives them over others
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)that, and maybe some of these groups used once as a temporary tactic against the right wing where it worked and then new members come along and think it's permanent policy against everyone? Who knows. Though, I get a sense that the ones abusing this tactic are not the brightest or experienced members of these groups. And I wouldn't insult those groups by thinking they were. I know people like leaders Gloria Steinen, Al Sharpton, etc wouldn't make those mistakes. That's why i haven't soured on these causes. But the ground troops and new recruits leave something to be desired.
7962
(11,841 posts)The Kardashianing of the country. More and more are willing to make complete and utter fools of themselves to get on TV. Hey lets interrupt this meeting! We'll get coverage that way!
Who cares if it hurts the cause, I got on TV!
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)It's cold and calculated. The party has adopted the far right's view of liberals. And I have decided, after 37 years of voting straight democratic, to be more selective.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)a right-wing aftertaste. I've always felt that. And it seems they seem more focussed on bullying liberals because they are easier prey - compliant, agreeable, etc. Why target a formidable and angry right winger when you can pick on a humble and apologetic liberal for the easy win? It doesn't seem about politics but of domination and that is very common of the Right. They do and advocate the things they do against women and minorities and gays because of the psychological reward associated with the dominance of others. And I think some of these liberals targeting other liberals so viscously are seeking the same kind of personal and psychologically satisfying reward. Politics is just the excuse.
It's like they don't want to defeat Right Wing exploitation and abuses, they want their slice of it. And they consider other vulnerable liberals their slice.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)like the right to vote, a living wage, fair housing, access to education, safe food and water, and public servants who don't murder innocent people.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Boo hoo.
ananda
(28,858 posts)WTF are you talking about?!!
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)ananda
(28,858 posts)... and I'm seeing it here in that LOL! too.
You make a generalized statement and when called to supply
specifics, you laugh maniacally and fall into some sort of
backlash projection!
Sad.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)... since the moment Sanders announced, his supporters have been calling anyone not on board with him every possible name that alienates and isolates the non-Sanders-freaks. The list of insults is very long, and the barrage has been endless.
Now, a crucial liberal is group calling Sanders's credentials into question, and the Sanders supports are totally up in arms. Karma sucks, eh?
And, by the way, your response to me falls directly into line with the alienation routine: "affect disorder", "maniacal laughter", "backlash projection", and the insinuation that I'm a rightwinger. Welcome to the club.
If Sanders wins the nomination, and I'm totally okay with that, those Sanders supporters who have been so insulting will need to shut the fuck up if he is to stand any chance of being elected.
ananda
(28,858 posts)My policy is to ignore that kind of thing mostly and not take
anything personally.
That's because we are all in this together and there are
a lot of lives at stake.
Yes, I'm a Sanders supporter, and I really hope he wins the
presidency.
But I'm not going to lash out at HRC supporters. If she's the
nominee, I will vote for her, and that's that.
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)This whole debacle is so sad to watch.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)billymayshere
(94 posts)Deadshot
(384 posts)What's going on here?
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)For what? For working tirelessly for minority rights?
Obtuse much?
Deadshot
(384 posts)Next time someone stands up for my rights, I'm going to protest and yell at them, you know, instead of going after the people who actually want to take my rights away, like Donald Trump, Scott Walker, et al...
Jetboy
(792 posts)There was a thread in the Lounge the other day about a poster's favorite Led Zeppelin song so of course someone has to accuse their guitar player of being a rapist.
I once mentioned that I enjoy a lot of stuff from the 1950s- the mid-century modern style, the cars, 50s rock-n-roll so of course a DUer challenged me to defend the racism and misogyny from that decade.
People just adore looking down on others any way they can. Where would we be without their constant concern? Are you now or have you ever been involved in the communist party I mean racism or sexism or homophobia?
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)I couldn't understand why one of my liberal relatives was randomly asking some of the other men (not me) at a family gathering if they liked classic rock. (She turned lesbian after a bad marriage, although I can't say if the marriage had anything to do with it.) I now think she could have been trying to determine if the men had misogynist tendencies from their taste in music.
And while that can be an indicator, musical taste is highly subjective and a person can like a piece of music for reasons that have nothing to do with, and often despite, any underlying tones of misogyny. But my relative was the one who asked the question and she seemed (to me) to be trying to make a personality assessment of others based on their answers to a question about music. I mean, who typically says "no" when asked if you like a specific genre of music? Most people say "yes" just because they don't want to come off as close-minded.
I am quite aware of the misogyny inherent in some classic rock but if my relative would have asked me that question I might have said "sure" because I'm able to mentally separate the good from the bad. But my relative would have drawn the wrong conclusion about me if she went by my answer. There's so much faulty logic in judging people that way.
Jetboy
(792 posts)And to take it a step further and associate those flaws with the person who enjoys the flawed artist is creeping towards some really bad territory.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)ANYTHING, to bitch about. The joyless, obsessive purity police are best ignored.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)FSogol
(45,480 posts)Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)FSogol
(45,480 posts)last show. Thanks for the info.
Cenac did appear on Stewart's last show.
1939
(1,683 posts)It was about Jewish life in Czarist Russia. It told about how every man needed an "enemy". The Czar and his minions couldn't be the enemy because they were just a malign presence, an evil, and a danger. Your "enemy" had to be a member of the community who had "chosen" to hate you and you him. Republicans are this malign presence, but you hate other members of the Democratic coalition for not agreeing with you on priorities, methods, and leaders.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)johnp3907
(3,730 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)Who calls the shots? Why the tactic? What is the message? Who benefits?
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)I have a group of leftist friends who I met several years ago when there was a series of rallies and counter-rallies in our town during a controversy over a local mosque. We've met and talked many times over the ensuing years. I've met others in their circle and become involved in a local community organizing group as a result.
Several of these friends are active on Facebook and so am I. We've had interesting conversations and debates.
But lately, I just can't take it anymore. The constant bashing of "white liberals." The dogged determination to remain marginalized, fractured, politically irrelevant, and without allies.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)when it's reckless, that is. When it is using racial justice issues for political ends.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)"If you don't let us treat you like an enemy you were never our friend."
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)'black people don't and shouldn't support Sanders.' A security response against the provocateurs would give media a field day and reinforce the message, especially if someone gets hurt. Who would benefit from something like that?
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)Wish I had your eloquence.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)After $14,000 in student loans I'd like to think I at least got eloquence out of my time in college.
Chisox08
(1,898 posts)Those accusations are not reckless they are calculated and targeted towards the people that it would hurt the most. Calling a person a bigot is being used as an easy way to shut down debate or a conversation.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Especially when it happens in an environment that is considered liberal and progressive.
You can say that again. Especially when whining about minorities and oppressed groups who are fighting to be heard.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)Other democrats and liberals.
If you don't like Democrats and liberals why are you hanging around?
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)I like plenty of people here. Just not the racists and misogynists.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)I don't tell men they cannot have an opinion on any female-centered issue because they are not female - it's fucking STUPID
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Funny how that works, isn't it?
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Those of us not in the gilded set will all do better with Bernie than anyone else in the race. How much better would depend on the makeup of the legislature.
Hillary is preferable to any of the republicans, but many of us are suspect she'll pull the same bait and switch as Obama - just more neo democrat action, aka republican lite economically.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)fracture the dem party and pit the candidates and their supporters against each other while their puppet quietly advances.
hmm. who do we know that has that kind of power and money?
no, church lady, i was thinking the koch brothers
this has a paid operative stink to it, they are terrified of bernie, and hate hillary. and they have the money
ladyVet
(1,587 posts)Why would a group attack the one person who has shown over the decades that he supports them and their causes? What do they win if they make Bernie drop out, or focus only on their demands? I can guarantee it will only get them a lost election and more years of being pushed aside, or worse.
Can this sort of thing be excused by saying the leaders are young and don't understand what they're doing? Or that it's the only way to have their voices heard? If they want someone to hear their message, Bernie is already there. He's been there since he was a kid, for fuck's sake.
Frankly, I'm tired of being courted for my vote, and then dismissed, even insulted, after the party wins. I'm a liberal. I'm proud of it. I'm white, but I'm no "liberal supremacist". I'm thinking anyone who calls me that needs a good dictionary, because I don't think they know what those words mean.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)... Anyone in the Democratic party.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)I am tired of being told I cannot have an opinion because I am not a POC
sub.theory
(652 posts)You're going to be savaged by the extremist haters, but you're right. Some people just want to hate. Nothing we can do but not let them ruin our coming together and working to break down barriers between people. You're fighting the good fight.