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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow not to treat your allies

Imagine fighting your entire life for social justice, being the most progressive member of the senate and then having your events repeatedly crashed by people yelling at you that you're not doing enough.
I can't get over that look on his face. He looks so sad and defeated by this. I know he is a fighter, but I can't imagine having to deal with something like that.
I would really like an explanation of this. Forget he is a presidential candidate. Who treats a 73 year old man like that? I get he is a public figure, but you'd think a modicum of decency would prevent someone from doing something like that.

stranger81
(2,345 posts)God bless Bernie Sanders for continuing to get up in the morning and do what he does. I respect his tenacity, strength and perserverance.
narnian60
(3,510 posts)Well said.
Vinca
(51,513 posts)And then I started to get really pissed off. Now I'm wondering if these aren't paid operatives from another campaign trying to embarrass Bernie.
Warpy
(113,131 posts)but I remember my own misspent youth and how the young often choose their enemies without having all the facts.
These hecklers don't have all the facts. If they did, they'd be spreading their heckling around a little better.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)race relations, etc., his whole life, and he gets treated like this. Those women should be fuckin' ashamed of themselves.
NotoriousRBG
(44 posts)Bless you, Bernie. They know not what they do.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)They don't seem to understand that respect is a two way street. Behavior like this does nothing to promote their cause or message.
Ms. Toad
(35,851 posts)One of the things that struck me from the videotape was the event staff asking for a bit of respect, trying to figure out how to accommodate the demands, and the woman screaming in his face that they were being respectful, and that the organizers just needed to hand over the microphones.
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)A group of arsonists are burning down homes and businesses and people are dying so they protest the fire fighters and paramedics.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Mostly because it's such a gross oversimplification of race relations and injustice in the United States.
Your dichotomous rhetoric seems to put forth the argument that Bernie Sanders is nothing less than the physical embodiment of a perfect savior.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.
We cannot walk alone.
Martin Luther King Jr
Your comment is idiotic..
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)White moderates, to me, are the DLC/Blue Dog/New Democrat type. They tend to NOT be the strong "far left" activists that are demanding substantial change in this country (on a number of fronts; all of which would improve the lives of PoC).
In other words, they would tend to be more of the Hillary Clinton type of Democrat (and a good portion of her supporters) as opposed to the Bernie Sanders type of Democrat (and a good portion of his supporters).
I know that the black community disagrees with my opinion currently, and I will continue to try and understand why that is so. But, even around here on DU, Hillary supporters tend to be the more pragmatic ones. They tend to be the ones that would be much more willing to NOT be upset when very large compromises are made. And, when it comes to social justice issues for minority groups in this country, compromises should NOT be made. Serious structural changes need to be made, and that will require someone who is more of a radical. That, to me, is Bernie (MUCH more than Hillary). I strongly believe that his Dept. of Justice would work very, very hard to right the wrongs that so many black people encounter. And, this belief is one of the many reasons that I support him over Hillary. Hillary will have carefully crafted speeches from many beltway insiders I have no doubt. And, her speeches may resonate more with PoC. Ultimately, I just don't have any faith in her. At all.
The Executive Office has a great deal of power outside of what is accomplished legislatively. The thought of a Bernie Sanders Dept. of Justice gives me so much hope. I hope that a majority of PoC ultimately share my point of view.
elias49
(4,259 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Got hyperbole? Your interp is more idiotic than any analogy here.
Stop with the absolutes. BLM are in danger of becoming a rude joke.
If their cause does matter to them so much (I think it does) why don't they have a forum with the candidates?
Someone on here accused me of probably getting upset with Code Pink too.
Code Pink is not promoting GOP memes and talking points like BLM is.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)But you know that.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)It succinctly encapsulates these incredibly counter-productive actions of BLM.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)pa28
(6,145 posts)Too bad.
I'm black and I think that sucks. I'm so sorry, Bernie!
Makes me sad. We've got to have his back.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)applauded when they went after the president and his wife. My, how the times are a changin'.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)But when POC do it to the new DU-anointed candidate who had been tone deaf to the MODERN issues that impact POC more than "economic justice" (not issues from 50 years ago when these activists' parents were children or teens), the mentality becomes "If you're black, step back" (whether the protestor is black or the current President is black).
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)where the local chapter tweeted an apology -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141170737
But the point is that there are young people who are seeing what their elders have warned about as a multi-generational problem that continues into their generation and will continue for many generations to come. This brings about the honing of the protest movement to bring about effective change but it shouldn't be shut down by DUers who suddenly embrace someone and now see what it's like to be on the "other side" of the fence, where they are now subject to experiencing the criticism of a favored candidate.
As I have seen pundits note - how a candidate responds to heckling and protests is part and parcel of how they would deal with the same if occupying the office of the President. With all the massive protests that our current President has faced, he didn't just throw up his hands and walk away. He addressed it - in a way however awkward or meaningful.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)The faces of the activists & the target may have changed, but this is a long held tradition in American politics. I'm just pointing out that these actions have been celebrated in the past by those who now eschew them, simply because of who the target is.
elias49
(4,259 posts)it's that BLM is getting more aggressive.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)elias49
(4,259 posts)Disagreement if OK - but some (not you) can't remain civil.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,951 posts)The organisers (not Sander's campaign - a local group about social security) decided they didn't want the police to arrest them, but that's what would have happened at most events. Code Pink and others don't get on to the stage and take it over for several minutes.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
senz
(11,945 posts)If you think that or anything like that, you are very easily manipulated.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)during his administration. Why is he not heckled? I find this to be very curious. He is still in office and he is the one who could take action now.
840high
(17,196 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)
ladjf
(17,320 posts)and shouted back at them just as they had done to him? One of the girls actually was putting her hands on Bernie as she screamed her words. In no way should Bernie or any other person officially connected with the planned event, attempted to regain the podium.
The girls hijacked the mike, knowing that no one was going to life a finger to stop them. Videos of security people dragging them away would have been their greatest victory. That even deteriorated into utter, out of control chaos.
This event was not "just another protest in the "long held tradition in American politics". It was a ruthless, opportunistic overthrow
of civilized discourse. Organization leaders will have to devise security methods that will head off this type of disruption.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)they are there TO get arrested. That's what those who carry out civil disobedience are warned about and are trained to do.
of civilized discourse. Organization leaders will have to devise security methods that will head off this type of disruption.
OMG I can't believe I am reading this sort of statement on DU. One poster in this thread called some of the BLM protestors "thugs".
Using that analogy - here are some Occupy "thugs"" who disrupted President Obama -
Here's another "thug" ready to pounce -
And there are many more videos out there. Point being - activists "disrupt". You make a decision when being disrupted. Most have security arrest them and you move on. They are there to be arrested while attempting to get a message across.
senz
(11,945 posts)BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)I said that "a poster" (who by the way, I was requested to serve on a jury about because of the use of that disgraceful term) posted such. In fact, here are the results of that jury-
On Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:01 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
These Interrupters are Agent Provacateurs or Dupes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1171383
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
I really don't think it's cool for anyone on DU to use the word "thugs" to describe black people.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:57 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: While the word choice is crappy, I feel the alerter is more interested in stifling this opinion. Perhaps in this case, someone who pushes a 73-year old Senator and prevents him from speaking at event where thousands have gathered to hear him is a thug?
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter is the one who assign's thug to "black people". Thugs come in all shapes sizes and, colors.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: "Hired thugs?" Wow. Just wow. Discussionist has been unleased on DU.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: totally appropriate bad alert.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Alerter comment: I really don't think it's cool for anyone on DU to use the word "thugs" to describe black people. As a "white ally" you should know better, although except for this specific term, I'd have let the post stand.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
senz
(11,945 posts)not race. I certainly hope you were among the ones who voted to leave it.
BTW, you seemed rather proud to have been on a jury. I can tell you from personal experience (since I, too, served on a DU jury a few days ago), that all kinds of nonentities are invited, so it's no big deal. And being the nice liberal that I am, I voted to leave it.
But I wish someone would tell me what "Discussionist" is. Someday, doesn't have to be now.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)as an alternate site to DU. It is basically a no-holds barred in terms of "party" (political leaning) and conservatives are frequent posters.
http://www.discussionist.com/?com=aboutus
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Problem solved!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)ask hillary if her tax cheating corporate donors are tone deaf...you know the ones who fight increases in minimum wage, fought obamacare, and exploit poc on a regular basis and help to keep people in poverty.
the absolute SCREAMING denial of hillary's supporters and donors' complicity in systemic racism is beyond incredible.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)The continual knee-jerk reaction of "But Hillary!!1!!11!!!" every single time someone critiques this particular candidate, is tiresome.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)she is the only major candidate not being targeted by blm. and with her donor list being major exploiters of poc, the questions naturally present themselves why she is seen as a savior to poc while bernie has worked against injustice his whole life and is being villified.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)because remember, Bernie has been an unknown to most of the black population and Hillary had been coyly politicking for some time before her announcement and obviously had run before in 2008 (so she is a known).
I posted links in this thread where BLM not only went after her, but O'Malley and even Obama, when he was in Selma back in March.
The PROBLEM is that many Bernie supporters ignored or tuned out what BLM was doing to everyone else until they set their sites on Bernie.
Hillary -
http://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-needs-speak-now-why-black-lives-182139453.html
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/17/hillary-clinton-torture-is-wrong-and-yes-black-lives-matter (where this link's event was back last December and the criticism ratcheted up)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-hillary-clinton-and-her-rivals-are-struggling-to-grasp-black-lives-matter/2015/07/22/8b5870e8-2f34-11e5-8f36-18d1d501920d_story.html
O'Malley -
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/07/31/427851451/democratic-candidates-stumble-over-black-lives-matter-movement
Obama -
http://thinkprogress.org/election/2015/03/07/3631178/black-lives-matter-protesters-interrupt-obama-selma/
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)that they targeted a number of other dems, then how can they not see that their tactics have borne very little fruit? if they have a history of this, what do they have to show for it? it would seem to me that a professional advocacy group focused on goals would change their strategy if after all these years it hasn't accomplished anything but to marginalize themselves and get a few front pages. then again, if their goal is just that, then they will keep disrupting.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)Some candidates are discussing one of their major issues and what might be done to deal with it -
Clinton -
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/fivepoints/hillary-clinton-race-criminal-justice-reform
Webb -
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/politics/jim-webb-hillary-clinton-contrast/
O'Malley -
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/politics/martin-omalley-criminal-justice-reform/
Sanders -
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/07/30/sanders-focuses--racial-justice-reform/30891827/
Oh and as a side note - BLM is the "SNCC" of the 21st century. Note that SNCC practices were roundly rejected by the "establishment" black organizations like the NAACP and SCLC and were considered "radical". And the organization was once lead by the famous (or infamous) Stokely Carmichael. John Lewis was one of those youngin's back then in SNCC and decided to go a different path. You can thank Stokely and the "radicals" for the Black Power Movement - and essentially kickstarting the shift from the use of the term "Negro" to "black", which eventually evolved into "Afro-American" and then "African American".
Ms. Toad
(35,851 posts)that is even remotely close to what BLM (or someone speaking on behalf of the movement) is directing at Sanders. Despite a single event targeting O'Malley, they seem to have exclusively shifted their focus to Sanders.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)
I think her and Bill learned some lessons. Particularly when you had stuff like this going on during the Convention from her delegate supporters -
And you had pundits siccing Geraldine Ferraro on Obama as well - http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/11/ferraro.comments/
As soon as BLM criticized the "all lives matter" remark, Hillary shifted, quick, fast and in a hurry.
However Bernie Sanders supporters need to note that Bernie is learning as well after this incident. per this -
Sanders' campaign also announced Saturday that Symone D. Sanders, an African-American woman, has been hired as its national press secretary. Sanders serves as the national youth chair of the Coalition on Juvenile Justice.
The new press secretary introduced Sanders with a 10-minute speech on racial tensions and named the African-American men and women who have died at the hands of law enforcement. "You know which candidate for President will shut down the private prison industry," she said to roaring applause. "You know which candidate will have the courage to fight unjust mandatory minimums and the death penalty."
Symone Sanders said her job with the campaign started Saturday, but the process of getting hired started three weeks ago with an hour and a half long meeting with the senator. She said one of the reasons she joined the campaign was because of the senator's willingness to listen to suggestions on race issues. "I wanted to see just who Senator Sanders is, how he thought and how open he was to talking about his actual message and how open he was to suggestions," she said. "He is super flexible, he is cool and he has a great heart."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/09/politics/bernie-sanders-seattle-rally/
I had seen something posted where Bernie had brought in some AA staff but I never got the details and I had to really did to find the above.
The point is - Bernie can walk and chew gum at the same time. He needs to LEARN how to deal with hecklers.
When Obama ran, he had one set of folks sporting shamrock decorated "O'bama" buttons -

Where others were touting his and his family's appearance in one of the biggest black beauty magazines -

(and he and Michelle and the girls continually appear in black owned and/or-targeted magazines). So he had to attract a HUGE coalition to get elected and cross all sorts of demographics. He was made fun of because of this, but it hit a demographic -

Bottom line is that Bernie cannot be elected President without the black vote. Period. It's best he get on the good side now.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)can you at least agree with me that such language is counterproductive and vile?
and the fact that, as a jew, he has been subjected to his own discrimination and had members of his family killed by a real white supremacist makes this even more repugnant and shows the ignorance of these particular individuals
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)and demonization has gone here on DU than anything directed at the current crop of candidates. And if you look at my signature, you should deduce that I am anti-hyoerbole and any such coming from ANY side is an abomination to me. Such has come about right here on DU from a number of Bernie supporters - despite people asking folks to "tone it down". And that includes the ugliest of vitriol directed at a sitting Democratic President, the designated "POS Used Car Salesman".
There was a thread by bravenak, a Sanders supporter, trying to reason with folks, and after all the vitriol back and forth, she was just recently suspended.
Some folks need to realize that young people have had it and they actually have a venue to express it "instantly" (where back in the day, there were the "flyers" that were passed around and phone calls and the meetings at the luncheonette or someone's house)... nothing as immediate as today. I expect there are BLM members who have family, friends, or themselves who have had to deal with the U.S. version of the gestapo police. Yelling past each other is bad but ignoring or dismissing the concerns of one another is worse.
And perceptions MATTER. THAT is what is happening here and why there is such discord between communities.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)that things on du are getting heated. and after a point, it becomes unproductive and self feeding angst. which is exactly why i think this latest stunt by --whoever they are---not gonna refer to them as blm becsuse i have my doubts....is not helping the terribly critical issues facing poc. for the racists, it gives them fuel and (in their minds) justification for their hatred. for allies, it frustrates us and makes some of us want to tune out. i might have been interested in what those young women had to say if they had approached bernie and said we need to speak. and said their piece and left. but they bullied him and used physical intimidation and ended up disrupting the entire event, preventing him from speaking at all. never mind the odious "bow down" crap. they completely disrepected his human dignity, which is what they claim is one of their major complaints about systemic racism which is done to them on a regular basis.
they lost me and i am sure, many others.
that is a shame.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)that "activists" don't do what they do to make things "comfortable". That is what the traditional organizations are for. Their very nature is to "get into your face".
As many of us get older, we have experienced decades of the yelling back and forth and have become weary of it. But the young folks are full of verve and energy and that energy can be harnessed if people would just listen and teach and guide rather than dismiss and insult and lecture about how they are supposed to "act".
You or I may not agree with the tactics but it is what it is. However, as I have said several times in this thread - candidates MUST find a strategy to deal with disruptions and heckling. They cannot say "I'm done" and take their ball and leave. Should Bernie get elected and travel around the nation and the world, he will be confronted with disruptions far more insidious and heated than a young person yelling at him as he walks through a crowd.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and his campaign finding a way to handle this. it is possible he was not expecting this, especially from people who seem to care about the kinds of issues he cares about.
he is kind of in a tough spot. if he removes the disruptors, he could be seen as intolerant. if he confronts them, he could be seen as mean. if he walks away, it could be perceived as weakness.
i think his team needs to treat this as the serious campaign it is and have better screening and security. and if it is not his event, his people need to work security with the event organizers. disruptors should not keep getting access to the platform. they can stand in the crowd with their signs like protestors do at all the other candidates' events.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)Either he's "really running" or he intends to relegate himself to being a "protest candidate" (not unlike Dennis Kucinich who I supported but who never lasted long enough to make it to the PA Primary) attempting to move the party to the left. When Bernie officially "declared", that set in motion a number of things that would need to be handled "for real" outside of planning rallies, crafting speeches, fundraising, and otherwise shadowing the other Democratic party candidates.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)treat this like a real candidacy not a protest candidacy. he always said he would run to win, and i don't think he would disappoint all his supporters by running a protest campaign while telling them otherwise.
hey i was for kucinch too! and was a deaniac, as is evidenced by my sig line..
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)but like Kucinich, he didn't stay in long enough to get to the PA primary.
I remember sitting there watching CSPAN for almost 5 hours straight while Kucinich read off something like 25 Articles of Impeachment against Bush into the record.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)in this progressive revolt against the ruling class. i think bernie has a chance to get farther, hopefully all the way to the wh
Ms. Toad
(35,851 posts)None of the links in the post to which I responded, and none of the links you provided are even close to what folks purporting to speak on behalf of BLM are doing to Sanders.
Show me a single Clinton or Obama event that was similar. And by similar I mean people who were not invited to speak taking the stage, and the microphones, and demanded (all the while screaming in Sanders' and the organizers' faces about how respectful they were being), holding the stage for more than 20 minutes, against the wishes of the crowd, before Sanders finally left the stage.
Hecklers and people who spout off when a microphone is volunteered are not even close to the atrocious way people who are claiming the mantle of BLM are treating Sanders.
I truly hope these people are not the heart of the BLM movement - the goal is one I support. But means matter to me, and I find the means being used by at least those currently grabbing the headlines extremely offensive.
(FWIW, I disagree with all similar tactics - but no one attempted to shame me into approving such tactics in 2008 by suggesting anyone who criticizes such tactics is racist.)
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)why did Bernie NOT take control of his time? Call in security?
Protestors PROTEST. Activists AGITATE.
I'm going to say it --Bernie supporters need to stop whining about his non-handling of protestors. It shows his isolation from this type of thing and he's apparently gotten rusty at it. I hate to say but Americans like "bravado" in their leaders. Finessing that bravado is a skill that the highest of politicians eventually master. Otherwise it shows a level of cowardice. Trust me - black folks can deal with being arrested for civil disobedience. We are not delicate flowers that need to be coddled. But we are human beings that need to be heard. And in this day and time, there may be false "messengers" out there not unlike the anarchist "Black Bloc" who managed to infiltrate many of the urban protests that were spearheaded by a number of legitimate organizations.
No one is accusing those complaining of being "racist" but I am one criticizing his supporters for knee-jerk reacting to every criticism that is leveled at the candidate. The fact that he just hired an AA Press Secretary this weekend is a good first step into making some inroads into my community.
Ms. Toad
(35,851 posts)of those claiming to represent BLM.
Just a couple I can find easily.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141171330#post58
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141171330#post50
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=491104
For others, just peruse the threads in the wake of Netroots & the Seattle incident.
I am not reacting to criticism of a candidate. I am reacting to the tactics used to convey the criticism. There are many ways of engaging in civil disobedience that don't involve almost exclusively targeting candidates who have been the most involved in civil rights & taking over microphones and events, , and screaming in the faces of people who have been supportive for decades - and whose more active support you are trying to gain.
Insisting that the problem is that Sanders isn't shutting down agitators, rather than condemning those of us who find the message appropriate is offensive. Aside from anything else, absent an army of handlers who wouldn't let the protesters into the event - like certain other Democratic candidates who are far less progressive, having the protesters arrested once they take over the microphones would go over really well.

Protesters who continue to disruptively target friendly targets are contributing to the election of someone far less sensitive to the concerns of the black community. The message is appropriate, and needs to be heard, but spewing spittle in the faces of those most likely to be receptive alienates people.
I have a child who needs out of the norm accommodations - I've been fighting the battle for appropriate accommodations for her since 2008. I know the system inside and out, and I know how inadequate the formal accommodation process is unless you have an easily categorizable disability. I'm about the friendliest person to accommodations you are likely to encounter among University faculty. Yet when I had a student who used an all out assault, complete with threats to sue, to gain access to accommodations that were not on the list the University gave me, it took everything I could muster to force myself to step back and make an effort to accommodate her real needs - rather than limiting what I offered to the inadequate accommodations the University required that I provide her. I granted her all the accommodations I was required to, and more. But I did not serve her well. Not because I was not sympathetic or because I did not want to serve her well. But because it is nearly impossible - even for people of good will who are most open to hearing and acting on a message - to address real needs (rather than just going through the motions to do what the law requires) when you're constantly wiping the figurative, and with BLM the literal, spittle from your face.
BLM has a real opportunity to gain access to an effective and popular voice. Rather than taking advantage of the opportunity to leverage a national voice that is already inclined to be open to the message BLM wants to convey, it is choosing an all-out assault on that voice.
I don't believe that tactic is ever effective. I can't imagine any circumstances under which I would support it - and I certainly don't support it here. No matter how strongly I support the underlying message.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)Many here continue to "define" what is considered "friendly" and "ally" by a specific set of criteria that others may not agree with. And then the attacks happen when people point this out, with the result being complete dismissal of the alternate perspective. This then leads to why certain groups might ratchet up the heat.
The presumptuous assertions only help to fuel the discord.
For someone who started out his campaign with this (as I posted elsewhere in this thread) -
Well, here's what you got. What you got is an African-American president, and the African-American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for president. And that's kind of natural. You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help.
But that's not important. You should not be basing your politics based on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing? ... In the last election, in state after state, you had an abysmally low vote for the Democrats among white, working-class people. And I think the reason for that is that the Democrats have not made it clear that they are prepared to stand with the working-class people of this country, take on the big money interests. I think the key issue that we have to focus on, and I know people are uncomfortable about talking about it, is the role of the billionaire class in American society.
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters
This is what he must clawback from and the effort has been halting. However he is finally "getting it" (his campaign just brought on an AA Press Secretary over the weekend to touch base with my community) and the hope is that one day, his supporters will "get it" too.
Ms. Toad
(35,851 posts)Yes, he has a long way to go - as do most white people.
But the way to leverage that inclination to be an ally is not to repeatedly clobber him over the head. That is a recipe for turning him against your cause (the point of the personal example I gave you). If he is "getting it," it is despite the abusive tactics - not because of them. Bully for him for being able to stifle his justified resentment at how he has been treated quickly enough to perhaps become an effective advocate. The tragedy is that it might well have happened earlier, and been an enthusiastic partnership, had MLM not distrupted Netroots - which resulted in canceling a pre-planned meeting between BLM and Sanders. Again - even if you are inclined to do the right thing, and have taken steps in that direction, it is human nature to push back when someone is in your face screaming at you.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)And that statement is the whole point of this exercise of people talking past one another. For the majority group to lecture the minority about "tactics" is insulting given all the opportunities were available for this candidate to make some inroads. But he chose a different path.
Bernie had the opportunity to touch base with black folks - sympathetic black folks even - in South Carolina - during the funerals of those gunned down by a lunatic white supremacist. He even had a pre-planned event there already scheduled. Yet he apparently (incorrectly) thought that doing such would have been perceived as "pandering", not understanding that when it comes to a candidate that few of these folks knew, the "risk" is worth it to promote viewpoints and garner support by initiating dialog, and some next steps.
Yet he walked away from that oppportunity.
Only he and his campaign put themselves into this awkward position, but it is exceedingly good that he is finally working his way out of it.
Edit to add - Guess who did show up at a SC funeral?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026878585
Ms. Toad
(35,851 posts)Just as my support of peace efforts is conditioned on not attempting to achieve peace by dropping bombs on people, my support of the most media dominant voices of BLM is conditioned on a change in tactics.
As for Sanders having the opportunity and blowing it - seems to me that BLM (or those purporting to speak in its behalf) shot itself in its own foot there. My understanding is that a meeting had been scheduled before the first disruption - which was called off because of it.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)I'm sure there are some people out there who would've loved to watch images of Bernie's security...dragging a couple of screaming black women protesters off the stage repeated over and over on national TV... Not hard to imagine the story that would've accompanied those images...
Instead they got to watch the inarticulate, shrill display of a couple of women who once given the mic didn't have a clue what to do with it. Instead of embarrassing Bernie they embarrassed themselves, hurt an important cause and disappointed those who were hoping this poorly staged event would make Bernie look bad...
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)For the "real" protestors, an arrest is par for the course. People understand that and black people do more than most when it comes to pushing for what you want.
But for a candidate who wants to be President, his handling of such was a FAIL. He must must must develop methods to deal with heckling, protests, and disruption. THAT is something that would dog him during a Presidency, both nationally and globally. Picking up his ball and slinking away was cowardly.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)And much like it is with Hillary Clinton and the other candidates, "justifiably angry" folks with legitimate issues will never again reach the stage.
There's a time and place for everything but what made this protest a sad fail was people didn't walk away with feelings of solidarity with BLM. It was the impression immature over the top, self absorbed personalities of the "agitators" and the feeling that this was a setup they walked away with.
There's a time and place for everything. Agitation and getting arrested certainly has it's place. But Bernie is and always has been a sympathetic ally.. This was more like crashing through your grandmother's open front door and "taking over" her table set for Sunday dinner, than a protest.. And it's not just white people who feel like this..
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)to the youngsters who won't have any of that "lecturing" on what they should do and how they should do it. Nor did the "youngsters" of the '60s accept it either. Yet many of them grew up to become a carbon copy of their "parents" and are now telling the next generation of young people to slow it down.
It's generational and ironic but it's how life rolls.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)But, there actually is some wisdom that comes with age and experience...
Martin Luther King Jr was wise and humble enough to allow himself to be influenced by Henry David Thoreau and Mahatma Gandhi.. It's impossible to even fathom the number of people King has and will continue to influence.
The resulting impact will outlast us both.
And in no way am I asking young folks to "slow it down" in fact we need to speed things up... My point was and will continue to be what happened over the weekend in Oregon was a complete failure on so many levels.. The only bright side is that if it was an orchestrated event designed to hurt Sanders' campaign, which I believe it was.... it was the ultimate failure...
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)Yes and there's the old saying (many variations) about how - "When I was 17, I was surprised at how little my father knew. but when I turned 21, I was shocked at how much he learned in 4 years".
I refuse to idolize, like so many here, MLK as if he was suddenly "born wise" and was the great savior of us all. He fumbled and stumbled with the best of them as a young pastor and he ran into some ugliness "up north" when he tried to apply certain tactics there (despite having gone to school in Boston). He also had to work with a myriad of non-church related groups, but he had a role and galvanized a certain subset of black America, but he was not the only one.
I think that Sanders supporters need to move on and hope this candidate can learn from the experience, notably how to deal with protests - whether real or manufactured, both from the left and from the right. This whole whining thing has gone way way over the top now and IMHO, is ridiculous.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)and deep appreciation of his/her wisdom and ability to reflect back to us qualities available to us all. Qualities that heal and unite as opposed to agitate and incite. Usually those qualities aren't born overnight but are the result of years of struggle and lots of introspection..
I agree, it's time for Bernie's campaign to evolve from a grassroots effort into a national movement. Maybe this incident will end up helping the process along.
Enjoyed the conversation, BRDS
TM99
(8,352 posts)Code Pink protested numerous events and politicians. Dreams have done the same. So have LGBT activists.
Thus far only one man, only one candidate, and so far one of our strongest white progressive allies has been on the receiving end of these protests.
I applaud protests and activism. I have done my fair share during my half a century on this planet. Take BLM everywhere. Take it to the GOP debates. Hell they are the racist party now. Take it to the other Democratic candidates. There are numerous stops at various events where Clinton, Webb, Chaffee, and O'Malley could also be protested.
But when it is focused on one candidate to the exclusion of all others, it is no longer protesting and activism. It is just rage and bullying.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
840high
(17,196 posts)pnwmom
(109,703 posts)They are asking each candidate to produce a strong plan for criminal justice reform.
Martin O'Malley has already responded to their protest in May, by producing a criminal justice reform plan as the number 1 item on his vision statement. The protesters cited it today, as something they want all the candidates to do.
Hillary hasn't been doing events like the one Bernie got heckled at. She's been primarily doing small fundraisers, for both her own campaign and members of Congress, where protesters can't get in and disrupt things. And the Secret Service won't let protesters anywhere near her. It's their job.
From martinomalley.com click to "vision"
A REINVESTMENT AND REHABILITATION FRAMEWORK FOR AMERICAS CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
Download the PDF.
Americas criminal justice system is badly in need of reform. For too long our justice system has reinforced our countrys cruel history of racism and economic inequalityremaining disconnected from our founding ideals of life, liberty, and equal treatment under the law.
Our country needs new leadership that will honestly assess our broken criminal justice system and put forward solutions that will:
Ensure that justice is delivered for all Americansregardless of race, class, or place.
Build trust between law enforcement and the communities they serve.
Ensure fairness and equal treatment for all people at every step within our justice system.
We must also strive to make our corrections facilities actually achieve rehabilitation. Almost all men and women who serve time in jail or prison return to their former communities. We will be stronger as a nation if all of our fellow Americans are able to find jobs, rebuild their lives, and have a stake in our democracy. There is no such thing as a spare American.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Small fundraisers? My, what a feeble excuse. They can't manage to block the road to the fundraiser? Or even carry signs along the road?
Divernan
(15,480 posts)at her elitist fundraiser at a multi-billionaire's estate in Fox Chapel, PA.
All of her "conversations with Hillary" fundraisers are held at private estates of the wealthy - some of them in gated communities. But the locations are mentioned in the news well in advance, as are the starting times. Simple enough to demonstrate along the road just before the entrance to the gated community/private roadway. Here are the FACTS I put together for another post:
[White protestors w/signs on road to HRC's fundraiser
When HRC attended a fundraiser at the home of a multi-billionaire in Fox Chapel, PA, security blocked off a private road on which the estate was located, but protestors appeared at another road anyone could figure out she would have to travel.
Shortly after 11 a.m., Clinton pulled into the driveway of the Shapira estate, nestled at the end of a private road lined with big houses and plush, green lawns.
A few blocks away, five protesters carrying signs reading Stop Hillary high-fived passers-by and elicited a few honks from cars outside Fox Chapel Presbyterian Church.
http://triblive.com/politics/politicalheadlines/8761531-74/clinton-fundraiser-hillary#axzz3i8yPjDrQ
The location of her Portland, Oregon fundraiser (at another billionaire's estate, of course)was well advertised weeks in advance. And guess what? no BLM protesters. It would have been so simple for them to station themselves with signs &/or loudspeakers for a few hours on Clinton's path between the airport and the elite estate.
http://www.oregonlive.com/mapes/index.ssf/2015/08/hillary_clintons_portland_fund.html
But no-o-o-o-o-, not a single one. Connect the dots campers - BLM is being deliberately used, or complacently allowing itself to be used to attack Bernie. If BLM has not and does not condone the blatant bias of attacking only HRC's primary opponents, they would obviously speak up. But the silence is deafening.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I agree you analysis,
and Rec your post.
There is way too much "there" there to ignore.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Like we are lepers. Save for the occasional carefully screened and prepped props for photo ops. Which perfectly echoes the Little Chimp's interactions with the peasantry.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)What about trying to great something done now rather than a couple of years in the future?
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Thank you, TM99.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)So link it or be less obtuse.
appalachiablue
(43,383 posts)Violet_Crumble
(36,159 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)who cheered then, are booing now.
Violet_Crumble
(36,159 posts)btw, I haven't made any critiques of it. I don't know enough to say much about it except for what I've seen hasn't been good at all. I just saw the claim that there was mass cheering at DU for disruptions in the past, and that's not how I remember it at all.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)inconsistency around here these days.
Violet_Crumble
(36,159 posts)I've got a question for you. Are you supportive of those who disrupted that rally calling Bernie Sanders a white supremacist? And did they do and say anything else apart from that?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)called BS a racist. Frankly, I think the heat BS is feeling is not so much of his own making, but the vitriol espoused by some of his more exuberant "supporters" after his first confrontation with BLM. They've gone after black bloggers & journalists with abandon, and dragged out poor Dr. King's corpse more than once.
As supporters of the president have been told, repeatedly, this is not about personalities, it's about issues. They would do well to heed their own advice (that's if they don't suffer from selective memory. Quite a bit of that going around lately).
draa
(975 posts)Marissa Johnson, one of the protesters, shot back, I was going to tell Bernie how racist this city is, filled with its progressives, but you did it for me, accusing the audience of white supremacist liberalism.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/black-lives-matter-protesters-shut-down-bernie-sanders-rally/
It wasn't directed at Bernie but they basically called everyone racist.
I'd say the use of tweeter hashtag #bowdownbernie is not the correct way to get your message out either. It's counterproductive if you want to be taken seriously on such a serious issue. Especially when you're attacking one of the few people who might be willing to help your cause. I'll also note that no other candidate has been targeted but Sanders. Twice.
I may agree with BLM's message but I can't agree with their methods. All this does is damage a lot of hard work done by many good people.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)And no one is asking that you agree with "their methods". That's what activism is. It makes you feel uncomfortable. Big whoop.
JustAnotherGen
(34,246 posts)draa
(975 posts)I'm not uncomfortable, I'm mad. I despise tactics like this no matter who they target.
Speaking of which they aren't even targeting the people who matter. An old Jew can only do so much and until they begin targeting Obama, other Democrats, and all the Republicans with the same tactics, it's nothing more than bullying one old man to get publicity. It's pathetic and it hurts their entire cause.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)line of defense, perhaps he's too old for the office? I mean, it's not gonna get any easier if he's president. Just ask Obama, it's gonna get wwwaaaayyyyy worse. We've been told all this time that his advanced years should be irrelevant, I find it curious now that his "supporters" are dragging it up. For what? Sympathy? Curious, indeed.
Either his age is an issue, or it's not. You guys should make up your minds.
draa
(975 posts)change the subject to my choice of words instead of addressing my question.
I'll ask again. When are they going to target the other 20+ people running for President with these same tactics? Or other members of Congress? Or the President? Will they ever do that? It sure seems fishy considering the GOP's stance on race and racial justice that they would give them a pass. Or the Democrats for that matter. They haven't addressed the issue either but they only go after Sanders.
You seem to be for this method so tell me, when can we see them interrupt other Presidential rallies or members of Congress during speeches? They've had plenty of chances but somehow everyone else has gotten a pass but Sanders. Why? That's why people should question everything about these stunts and why I said it's doing more harm than good.
See, that's the difference between CP and BLM. CP went after everybody regardless of party. Until BLM changes that those two groups and their tactics are not even close to the same.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)is investigating these rogue police departments, and their racist practices? The Keebler Elf?
I'm sorry, but I'm not a part of the BLM Planning Committee, and I won't tell them how & who to target. My hunch is they'll get around to everyone in time. If the reaction around here is any indication, they probably won't bother with Republicans. I'm gonna guess that BLM will most likely be supporting the Democratic nominee, so it makes sense that they'll put the most pressure on those who they'll eventually end up supporting. My next hunch is that they will be targeting those with the highest profile who aren't Democrats. BS falls into that category.
I know you guys would love for the media to focus solely on BS' crowd size, but s**t just got real.
draa
(975 posts)BLM will likely find their support waning amongst many on the left unless they prove they're not targeting just Sanders. Even some of the Clinton supporters I've blogged with over the last 10 hours find their methods fishy. Especially when Republicans have been speaking all over the country the last couple of months and BLM is no where to be found.
It's a fair question to ask and until BLM goes after everyone, or at least the other 20+ candidates in this race, it's pretty obvious what they're doing and they should be ignored if they don't. I don't mean their cause should be ignored, I mean the group BLM should be ignored. At least until they prove it's not just Sanders they're after. They may also want to get some loose form of leadership in place. I suggest they contact Sen. John Lewis and ask him for guidance on organizing and how to do effective protests, otherwise, that group is doomed to fail.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)but the person you are talking to doesn't care
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)That being said, BLM apparently doesn't take it's marching orders from anyone. I'm not sure why you think they'd be going after Republicans, they already know what they'll get from them. We all do. My guess is that they've heard BS' message, and there's nothing in it to impact their everyday lives.
As for Hillary? She's addressed these issues more than once, so maybe they don't feel the need to badger her. She gets it:
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)It is obvious where they stand and members opposed to the GOP are not going to vote for them.
The people who they WOULD vote for are Democrats and BLM has apparently attended public events where candidates appear. Apparently you missed this -
Phoenix (CNN)Democratic presidential candidate Martin O'Malley apologized on Saturday for saying "All lives matter" while discussing police violence against African-Americans with liberal demonstrators.
Several dozen demonstrators interrupted the former Maryland governor while he was speaking here at the Netroots Nation conference, a gathering of liberal activists, demanding that he address criminal justice and police brutality. When they shouted, "Black lives matter!" a rallying cry of protests that broke out after several black Americans were killed at the hands of police in recent months, O'Malley responded: "Black lives matter. White lives matter. All lives matter."
Invoking the familiar names of blacks who died at the hands of police, including Eric Garner, Michael Brown and Tamir Rice, thousands have taken part in protests across the country calling for a more aggressive federal response to recent slayings by police.
The demonstrators, who were mostly black, responded by booing him and shouting him down.
and this -
Activists criticized Clinton in June when she used the phrase "all lives matter" during a speech at a church near Ferguson, Missouri, the site of continued social justice protests since the Michael Brown shooting in 2014. Some have said the phrase "all lives matter" emerged as a challenge to the popular protest cry "black lives matter," NPR reported.
the above in reference to this -
To some in the pews, what Clinton said fell flat. Or worse: "With her statement that all lives matter, that blew a lot of support that she may have been able to engender here," said Renita Lamkin, a pastor at the St. John AME Church in St. Charles. She is white and while protesting in Ferguson was hit in the gut with a rubber bullet. Her passion comes in part because her children are African-American.
"My children matter," she said. "And I need to hear my president say that the lives of my children matter. That my little black children matter. Because right now our society does not say that they matter. Black lives matter. That's what she needs to say."
Clinton's campaign points out she did say "black lives matter," late last year. But that didn't stop a flood of complaints on Facebook and Twitter after Clinton's speech:
HIllary Clinton, you went to a church in Ferguson to speak to the community and you say, "all lives matter?" YOU ARE CLEARLY NOT LISTENING.
Jason Pollock (@Jason_Pollock) June 24, 2015
I hope that the @HillaryClinton speechwriters realize that "all lives matter," in any form, will cost more than its benefits for black folk.
deray mckesson (@deray) June 24, 2015
People see what they want to see including embracing Cornel West's constant attacks, supposedly "on behalf of the black community" against President Obama, and ignoring the virulent attacks against Eric Holder for 6 years despite his essentially dismantling Ferguson's juggernaut.
draa
(975 posts)when they shut down an event by anyone other than Bernie Sanders. Or they have hashtags saying #bowdownomalley or #bowdownbush or #bowdownclinton. Or they demand any other candidate be held accountable on a stage somewhere while being assholes to that candidate.
I knew about the O'Malley "all lives matter" issue. Seems that the women on stage yesterday even mentioned he'd released a racial justice platform. I also don't believe telling someone off on twitter or facebook like they did Clinton is quite the same as shutting down a rally with thousands is attendance. Not even close.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)to stand his ground so that any supposed "shut down" of an event does not happen.
When dumbass Joe Wilson yelled out "You lie!" in the middle of President Obama's address to a joint session of Congress, Obama didn't gather up his notes and walk away.
When BLM protestors yelled out to interrupt President Obama's speech on the anniversary of the Selma March back in March, Obama didn't suddenly stop talking, step off the stage, declare the event "shut down", and walk away.
Folks see and hear what they want to.
Let's be real. BS needs to learn to confront people who disagree. THAT is one of the hardest things a President has to deal with.
draa
(975 posts)When they demanded he "come over to be held accountable" he was supposed to go along with that? And who in the hell would say that to someone who's done nothing wrong? And what exactly is he to be held accountable for? Being white?
Nobody in their right mind would accept being talked to and treated like that. No one. Not even a Presidential candidate. They sure as hell wouldn't engage people who had no intention of an honest debate to begin with. If they had honest intentions, after they spoke and had a moment of silence, they would have given the mic back to BS and waited to be addressed. They didn't. They took over the podium and demand he basically #bowdownbernie. That's bullshit.
They should be lucky the event organizer didn't have them arrested (BS wouldn't have allowed that though). That's probably what they hoped for though so BS handled it perfectly. Defending their actions is fine, but don't try to pretend BS or anyone should have submitted to that belittling bullshit those two tried yesterday.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)because Presidents are accosted by much worse.
If he had been a master teacher, he might have stepped aside, let them do their thing to get it out of their system, and then waited for (or called for) security to come up on the stage to haul them off under arrest for their act of civil disobedience. The end. Continue with what you are doing.
Yet he did none of that. He walked away and the event was declared "shut down" because of a couple people yelling on the stage.
Hell, Act Up! and many other more radical groups had or continue to use more difficult-to-dislodge methods of protest like those in Chicago who protested the Obama administration's deportations several years ago -
How any candidate deals with discord among the people, is a telling trait that needs to be evaluated.
draa
(975 posts)He never had people take over a stage, a podium, and a mic and then demand he be held accountable for something he hasn't done. Didn't happen while he was running for Pres, or as President either.
And you keep trying to equate protestors disrupting an event in the audience with protesters taking over an event outright. Why? Those two things aren't the same at all. In one, people physically hijacked an event, and with the other they did so with their voice or with a disruption. Not even close to the same and you know it. It's much easier to address someone when you have the mic and podium. Besides, the people at the Obama event actually wanted to talk. Those two yesterday didn't. If they had they'd have given BS a chance to address their complaints without the "held accountable" and #bowdownbernie crap they were pulling.
What happened yesterday would be like Joe the Plumber and Shithead O'Keefe jumping on stage and demanding Jeb Bush answer for what Trump said Thursday night. It would make no sense. And then when he said ok, you can have your say and I'll address you afterwards, they simply refuse to leave or allow him to speak at all without him kowtowing to their dishonest demands first. No one would put up with that and you know it. Not even Clinton.
They didn't want a discussion. You can't have a discussion with someone who only wants to disrupt. You can't have a discussion with someone who's not discussing honestly. You damn well can't have a discussion with people babbling about "white supremacy" the way those two were because they're not interested in discussion. They were only interested in disruption.
/sorry if this comes off as angry
//not mad at you at all and I thank you for your time
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)As President - he has the Secret Service to keep them at a distance, but he was sure as hell heckled when he was running as a candidate back in 2008. Trust me when I say that many in the black community were on him like white on rice because Hillary had received many of their early blessings and now Barack comes along.
If someone comes up on the stage, have security arrest them. Just be patient and wait.
People amazingly have amnesia. This was from 2008 -
He handled them by giving them the chance to speak. Their issues were taking place post-Jena 6 and post many of the messes that happened in NYC with Sean Bell being gunned down the night before his wedding just a few years before this event, as well as a whole host of outrages that continue to form the foundation of what you see today.
Bernie needs to calmly deal with it and not run away. You don't want a candidate to appear to be a coward.
It's sad that the narrative that I am now reading is not unlike the rogue cops who claim that their "lives were threatened" by some hulking teenager.
America has a problem. It is very sick. And a lot of that sickness is manifesting itself right here on DU. Perhaps putting this place in the sunlight like is happening now, will help though.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
senz
(11,945 posts)for everything you've said here. I hope you hang around here -- and all over the blasted internet, because you, like Bernie, have the gift of truth-telling and courage. In the age of electronic media, when so much is at stake, it's pure gold.
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,376 posts)
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)I think BLM was a little heavy handed in their approach but referring to Bernie as an "old jew"...and "an old man"??? Personally, I think Bernie is a little too old for office but I never expected to hear that from one of his supporters. (If, in fact, it IS one of his supporters and not just a 27 post count newbie troll...)
TYY
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)for "going after a 73 y.o. man". So, that's twice I've seen his age referred to by a "supporter".
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Please proceed, Guvnuh.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
"Mr. Sanders has had little direct experience with black voters as a politician in a state that is 95 percent white. And they have been largely absent from his campaign events so far."
He should thank BLM, at least there were some black folks in the room, and he's no longer an "unknown".

LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Hilarious! Not only have you demonstrated hypocrisy, you then double down with self-destructive behavior.
Keep it up, we like laughing at you.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)cuz somebody made their golden idol feel bad. Poor BS.
For the record, I'm a Democrat, something BS hasn't been for decades. So, no he is not now, nor has he ever been an option for me. His "liberal" bona fides, notwithstanding, he is totally unsuited & obviously ill prepared for the national stage. He & team could take lessons from a pro in how to handle disruption.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Issues or party identification? Only issues interest me. By your response it appears party matters first and foremost to you. Why else would you trash the candidate who is farthest to the left?
Good luck supporting whoever you support. She will do nothing for you but I'm certain you'll lap it up
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)You're on a roll. Keep typing!
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
WIProgressive88
(314 posts)
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)runs through black America, not Seattle. And someone sporting single digit support among the party's most loyal constituency, unlike you, can't afford to if he's serious about the nomination.
I'll be over here >>>>>>>>>
while he's getting his ass handed to him by those he's only reflected on as an afterthought.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)There the candidates can present their case to the people.
Granted it's HRC to lose at that point, but it's far easier to just lay low for a while and not shoot herself in the foot.

Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)white folk can't help him now. He's got to come to America, and stop hiding out in the homogenous enclaves that already love him. Cuz, truthfully, we ain't "Feeling the Bern" out here. Either that, or we just ain't falling for the BS (pun intended).
And if your last best hope is the debates? Well.....
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
You guys are certainly running scared if you believe you can keep up with this horse shit, but carry on.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
New Iowa numbers from PPP
Released today, 8/10, polling from 8/7-8/9
via ideology.
Hillary 52% overall support
49% identifying at very liberal
57% identifying as liberal
54% identifying as moderate
32% identifying as somewhat conservative
43% identifying as very conservative
Sanders 25% overall support
39% identifying at very liberal
22% identifying as liberal
18% identifying as moderate
26% identifying as somewhat conservative
16% identifying as very conservative
So +27 overall, +10 very liberal, +35 liberal, +6 somewhat conservative and +27 very conservative
And head to head, straight up, to be the nominee
HRC 52%
BS 25%
So +27 straight up
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110714975
Wasn't he recently within single digits of HRC? My, my, what a difference a couple of weeks makes. What could have happened?

Oh, and she's crushing him in SC. That's the place where we ALL get a say.

R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
Good luck.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)

R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
And yes, that little tidbit of yours certainly shows some fear.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)

R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Full Definition of HYPOCRISY
1
: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
2
: an act or instance of hypocrisy
Examples of HYPOCRISY
When his private letters were made public, they revealed his hypocrisy.
the hypocrisy of people who say one thing but do another
Teenagers often have a keen awareness of their parents' hypocrisies.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy
Puglover
(16,380 posts)just how consistent some of our posters are.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2953874
senz
(11,945 posts)Had to think about it awhile, but then the lights came on and I recognized how often this sort of thing occurs in everyday life. It explains so much, so many things that really hurt. In fact, I find it appropriate to the current situation but am too cowardly (yes, cowardly) to explain why. I'm dense so am not sure what your link means, but it sure rings true to me in some mysterious way.
Anyway, thanks for being so insightful, puglover. You never know when you're throwing out a buoy to someone who needs it.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)coined that. Made me laugh for hours. Then it made me think.
Thanks.
JustAnotherGen
(34,246 posts)Getting up in President Obama's face and pointing her finger and yelling. The guy just wanted to say hello.
If Sanders wins - this is good practice for when he encounters the opposition.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)the exact opposite. I've disagreed with groups when they targeted the President & 1st Lady, but I was told (in essence) to get over it. I'm gonna suggest everyone else take their own advice.
JustAnotherGen
(34,246 posts)By the time Code Pink got to FLOTUS - they were already on my pieces of shit list. They went after someone's soon to be ex wife who had three little little kids in her house while her soon to be ex was off playing war games in UAE. They were at minimum sloppy in defining their target. That woman was trying to get out of a hot mess of a marriage and didn't need their shit.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)to be consistent with BLM. Nothing has changed except the target. Just because the object of focus is one of DU's golden idols, they've forgotten how much they used to praise radical activism.
rateyes
(17,453 posts)about yesterday's protesters?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)sure did.
rateyes
(17,453 posts)I thought you were making a call for consistency. I support Bernie and BLM, but don't support what CP did to Obama or what these protesters did to Bernie.
Personally, I think these two protesters hurt the movement more than helped it yesterday. Not saying they shouldn't protest, even in this manner. But, there needs to be better timing and better choices of targets in my opinion.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Here is you from 2011 on Bernie Sanders:
"Unlike Bernie Sanders, he doesn't do angry, vein popping, spittle laced, red meat politicking, and that's okay. He obviously has respect for the office of the Presidency, even if they don't."
So your view of Bernie is what it always has been, it is not about current events.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x761678
On Occupy Wall St:
"You just threw up an entire Occupy rally in one silly post. You're not an activist, you're a sham artist, much like the rest of Occupy."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022647639
" Professional activists know that inciteful behaviour can be a powerful tactic, and can even grab a few headlines, but they should also be prepared to have public opinion turn against them.
I agree with the poster upthread who sees the tactics of OWS becoming more desperate & anarchistic as they fade from the headlines."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002237926#post33
In this nasty OP, you characterize LGBT activists who pushed Obama to make progress on DU in this manner:
"the divisions we saw being created were mostly from outside agitators. The Log Cabin was busy, and were somewhat successful in '10, but this is proof for me that the real Democratic base is gearing up for '12.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x681112
Many, many people who are supportive of tactics used by Black Lives Matter are on record on DU as being opposed to those tactics. Such people are showing their true selves in a rather stark way. Double Standards R Us.
progressoid
(50,932 posts)Not always positive.
Here are a few after a quick google
Code Pink Looked like absolute idiots today.
Oh geez. Not helpful, ladies.
I happen to think that CP is ineffective, and sometimes counterproductive
I must say, Code Pink and Berkeley look incredibly idiotic
me b zola
(19,053 posts)Code Pink went after the architects of the war, the torturers, and those who supported all of that madness. And Dreamers and LGBT activists did not go after their best ally.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Well....
those groups were not promoting the untrue Conservative talking points and memes... like "Bernie doesn't care about blacks because there are a lot of white folks in VT"
BLM is also not going after a president... but a primary candidate... a very progressive one who will probably do more for them than any other.
The GOP has got people making absurd and hyperbolic emotional illogical arguments.... just like they wanted.
WTG... BLM!
roody
(10,849 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
senz
(11,945 posts)I think you're smart enough to figure out the difference. And hope you're honest enough to admit that you know the difference.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
senz
(11,945 posts)"the administration" is doing them. Because they have the power, the responsibility. The are the ones in charge. They are the ones who can change it. It is to them that we the people direct our grievances.
This is obvious, and I cannot believe that you do not see it.
I'll bet you find straight speakers like Bernie (and me, I hope) entirely tedious.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)who now want the top job, to be "tedious". There, you figured it out. I hope we're all done here.
senz
(11,945 posts)even though he's a "socialist," because the people of Vermont know and love the guy. He has served them faithfully and well. He has, for the most part, kept his head down and done his work without compromising his principles. He has introduced bills, headed up committees, gotten legislation passed -- and all of it was pro-people legislation. He has spoken out and voted against harmful proposals (like the invasion of Iraq) and practices and in favor of that which is good. On at least one occasion, he filibustered for 8 1/2 hours to protest a tax cut on the wealthiest people and corporations. He has fought for the little guy his entire life.
But he's not flashy and splashy and doesn't hang with the billionaires. Nor does he sell out. So I guess that's why you don't want him for president?
Your loss, Tarheel_Dem. Your loss.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)posted at 12:00 pm on July 24, 2011 by Jazz Shaw
President Obama is under attack these days from all manner of nasty conservatives who dont care for his liberal, big spending ways. They seem to have found an unlikely ally, though, in the person of the only officially declared socialist in Congress Bernie Sanders. (Emphasis in original.)
SANDERS: Brian, believe me, I wish I had the answer to your question. Let me just suggest this. I think there are millions of Americans who are deeply disappointed in the president; who believe that, with regard to Social Security and a number of other issues, he said one thing as a candidate and is doing something very much else as a president; who cannot believe how weak he has been, for whatever reason, in negotiating with Republicans and theres deep disappointment. So my suggestion is, I think one of the reasons the president has been able to move so far to the right is that there is no primary opposition to him and I think it would do this country a good deal of service if people started thinking about candidates out there to begin contrasting what is a progressive agenda as opposed to what Obama is doing. So I would say to Ryan discouragement is not an option. I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition.
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/24/bernie-sanders-lets-primary-obama/
While Democrats were working our asses off to get our POTUS re-elected, we were being undermined by someone who has absolutely nothing to do with our internal party politics. And just for good measure, he threw in a lecture to black folk about "identity politics". He's not a Democrat. I'll never forgive him or forget, and I'm not the only one.
senz
(11,945 posts)Bernie was trying to push Obama back to his core principles on issues that relate to poor and working class people. A progressive primary opponent would have done that. If you don't like that, then what do you stand for?
I have it on good authority that those 3 protesters didn't care a whit about black lives.
Here's the good authority: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017285229 Check it out.
And here's something to know about the lead speaker of the protesters:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027060303
Have a nice evening.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)As to BS' motivations in 2012, I could give less than a shit.
LeftOfWest
(482 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Very wise, could teach you something. But...perhaps a bit above your pay grade.
roody
(10,849 posts)Obama has done more killing than Sanders.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)that were in direct opposition to their causes. That's different than just attacking an innocent person, which is what happened to Bernie.
mnhtnbb
(32,249 posts)against the BLM movement by trying to force a major candidate to put out a policy paper
on your timeline. Not smart.
Let me ask this question: do you think that Martin Luther King, Jr. would be supporting this
type of protest of Bernie if he were alive today? I have my doubts.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)mnhtnbb
(32,249 posts)There have been other movements--Black Panthers come to mind--which chose tactics quite
different from MLK, Jr.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Violet_Crumble
(36,159 posts)I didn't know that. Why is anyone at DU supporting that sort of shit?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)I wonder why...
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)I am a shooting a movie, and am sitting on set.
First principal photography day. Waiting for my AD and working with getting greenscreens properly lit.
You're not exactly a priority right now.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)made it up, just own that, but don't leave a charge like this unsubstantiated, especially if it's a "Hillary supporter". It makes you, the poster in question, DU and Hillary look bad by association.
"He's been called that repeatedly by Hillary Supporters on DU."
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)I will bother with you when I have time.
Hillary Supporters certainly don't need our help to look bad.
You guys do well enough on your own.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)claim about "Hillary supporters", got called on it, and are now blowing it off because substantiating a libelous claim is not a priority? I hope the movie turns out better than your performance here today. I mean it, best of luck to ya.
elias49
(4,259 posts)Just saying.
Too much of that on these boards lately.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)have called BS a racist. My response, "pissy" or not, is that I want proof of that, or a retraction. Sorry you don't agree.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Big dif between doing a search and responding to some git when you have little time.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)What's up with that?
"He's been called that repeatedly by Hillary Supporters on DU."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7058832
I just need the link, and you can get back to the movie set. I know how busy you must be. Thanks in advance.

Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Looking around at what going around here. You really do give me a good laugh
Here is a rough search.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737025
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737441#post3
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)for me. Which Hillary supporter called BS a white supremacist? That's the charge you made, and you need to search some more, maybe not quite as "rough" as before. Surely, you can do better. I want to see where BS was called either a "racist" or a "white supremacist". That shouldn't be hard. You said it's happened "repeatedly".
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Will get to it when I have the time to play. To busy things are ramping up here again.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)you get back to us, okay? I'll be here in the "sandbox".
XRubicon
(2,241 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Puglover
(16,380 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)In fact, she posted awhile back that she still supported BS, and was still trying educate some of his more exuberant supporters. Since she was on team BS, she may actually know some "white supremacists" among his supporters. Who knows? However, the charge was that "Hillary supporters" repeatedly call BS a "racist"; "white supremacist". I understand you're having trouble finding it, but when you do, please get back to me. Until you can show that, this ludicrous & libelous claim remains baseless. TIA.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)I forgot how common it is for white supremacists to support Jews. Happens all the time.
Mea maxima culpa.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)

beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Still trying to wrap my head around that one.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)this was an event to talk about social security....it was not even a Bernie Sanders rally.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Paid disrupters.
BumRushDaShow
(146,644 posts)There is a problem here in the U.S. where the horrible pogroms that took place in Europe have been overlayed into American history, as if they took place here in the U.S. The U.S. is part and party to massive eradication and subjugation of Africans, First Nation peoples, and other POC. If a young person sees someone who experienced such suddenly appear tone deaf to analogous (obviously not identical) practices happening here in the U.S. against another group by way of police brutality and "black sites" (like the one exposed in Chicago), etc., then you get such an utter