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What in the hell is wrong with people.A kid back from Afganistan is shot at his own party (Original Post) bigdarryl Dec 2011 OP
One of the reasons is the wide availablity of guns nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #1
Gun control is now the third rail of politics. That's a good thing, as far as I'm concerned. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #2
Things change, all I can tell you nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #3
Sure, things might change *eventually*...but not anytime soon. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #7
I would not count on that nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #8
Oh, I'm not. I think we can count on the absurd Assault Weapon Ban to be in the 2012 platform. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #10
Because we all need fully automatic FAL's to go hunting with an extended mag nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #22
You know better than that. ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #24
Not where a few of our friends would like to go though nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #25
What do fully automatic weapons such as the FN FAL have to do with the AWB? Abin Sur Dec 2011 #27
Even the civilan version has that problem nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #28
You've lost me. What's "comedic" about the FN FAL? Abin Sur Dec 2011 #31
Check you safety nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #33
A Colt SAA can do the same thing when dropped with the hammer down. Why is that funny? Abin Sur Dec 2011 #35
As a medic who got to answer a few calls nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #37
To each their own, I guess... Abin Sur Dec 2011 #40
Well the cop who was playing with a 25 nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #42
Of course he shouldn't have done that, it was a violation of every basic gun safety rule. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #44
If you do not get the humor nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #46
Sorry, I don't find people maiming theselves in a gun accident funny. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #49
In general I do not find guns funny or atractive nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #52
I don't find them particularly funny, myself. Attractive? That's another matter. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #54
Yup, when you know what they do for real nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #56
I certainly know that they can do for real. That doesn't mean they're not pretty. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #69
And your point? Yes they have artistic lines nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #70
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #71
That is true, but I cannot consider this pretty (graphic) nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #73
Neither do I. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #77
No it is not nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #79
I'm speaking of people's reactions to a method of death, *not* an animal's instincts. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #81
Tricky part about those fighters and tanks nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #85
Not so. Machine guns are legal in most states, and you can register a cannon Abin Sur Dec 2011 #87
What part of demiled are you missing? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #94
Cites for your claims? n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #72
I love blue states. Looks good for the Dems in 2012. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2011 #17
Shhh demosincebirth Dec 2011 #13
Aren't guns great? Everyone should have at least 10. appleannie1 Dec 2011 #4
I have around 100, myself...here's my latest aquisition. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #6
That Post Is In Poor Taste, For A Thread Like This One. Paladin Dec 2011 #12
I was replying to someone who brought up the subject of people owning multiple guns, not the OP. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #14
Show Off Your Gun Photo In The Gun Control/RKBA Group, Not Here. Paladin Dec 2011 #23
Why? What's the bid deal about posting a picture of a vintage handgun? Abin Sur Dec 2011 #26
Show some respect for the victim. ellisonz Dec 2011 #61
+100 pinboy3niner Dec 2011 #64
I would point out that I was responding to someone who used the story to make their own point about Abin Sur Dec 2011 #67
Dancing in the victim's blood to advance an anti-gun agenda is, however, in good taste? nt hack89 Dec 2011 #86
I fail to see how showing a picture of my purchase disrespects the victim in any way, Abin Sur Dec 2011 #66
"has nothing whatsoever to do with the victim." ellisonz Dec 2011 #95
Side note: 'Paladin' was the star character in a TV show some decades ago pinboy3niner Dec 2011 #65
Have you served in the military? tabasco Dec 2011 #34
Yes to both. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #36
Too bad. tabasco Dec 2011 #53
My BIL, a vet of the bush in Nam nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #55
Of course, 100 guns, for when Obama takes them away you'll have a few left.... DainBramaged Dec 2011 #41
How is buying a collectable gun that will go in my safe spending money on "death"? Abin Sur Dec 2011 #47
Thank God for the 2nd Amendment. styersc Dec 2011 #5
Exactly!! If we allowed the same gun control that has long been required in every single democracy Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #11
Is Switzerland part of "every single democracy on the face of this Earth without exception"? Abin Sur Dec 2011 #15
and those guns in Switzerland are very much accounted for, It is ludicrous to imagine that there is Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #20
Speaking of the NRA, here a useful link Abin Sur Dec 2011 #29
Well Israelies have at home either an M-14 nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #30
In the Czech Republic, you don't need a permit to carry a concealed handgun. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #32
The chechs also have a MUCH LOWER ownership ratio nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #39
I was speaking of gun laws, not ownership rates. As for the militia... Abin Sur Dec 2011 #43
Sad, if we have such an organized thing, which is NOT what the Founders nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #45
What part of "all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age" wasn't clear? Abin Sur Dec 2011 #48
Alas I am going over ORIGINAL INTENT nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #50
I'm certainly not going to melt them down! I plan to start selling them when I retire, Abin Sur Dec 2011 #57
If you're not targeted for theft because of your extensive collection... ellisonz Dec 2011 #62
Which is why they're insured against loss or theft. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #68
And you always have that magic ring. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #88
You've identified what you consider to be a problem. What solution, if any, do you propose? Abin Sur Dec 2011 #89
People like you are part of a specific problem Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #92
Surely you can explain.... PavePusher Dec 2011 #74
You of course know, or perhaps not, that drill was required, once nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #75
You have failed to answer the question. PavePusher Dec 2011 #76
Actually it was in some municipalities, such as york town nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #78
Cite, please. n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #80
My god, you really are getting difficult nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #84
Citing Michael Bellesiles?!?! "My god", indeed. PavePusher Dec 2011 #96
As I said, actual archives would be too much for you nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #97
Do you really think it's all about permits? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #82
You don't know what the word "pornographic" means, do you? Abin Sur Dec 2011 #83
Yes your pix are what are known as gun porn Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #90
The term "gun porn" is normally used affectionately, not pejoratively. Abin Sur Dec 2011 #91
Yes we know that. By those who love their guns to the point of arousal. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #93
I know a guy who sleeps with his DeathToTheOil Dec 2011 #98
Well, you do live in varmint country Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #100
Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #38
First, he wasn't defending this country DavidDvorkin Dec 2011 #9
What's a party without guns? TheCowsCameHome Dec 2011 #16
Sexier, IMO. Robb Dec 2011 #18
More polite of course.. Fumesucker Dec 2011 #19
this is one area that sets us apart from other "developed" "civilized" "first world" etc nations JI7 Dec 2011 #21
Suggested movie> Survivoreesta Dec 2011 #51
The shooter was a chickenshit. Shooting someone over a football game? LiberalFighter Dec 2011 #58
gun nuts prevail Skittles Dec 2011 #59
Too many pissed off people with too much access to guns. ellisonz Dec 2011 #60
Alcohol + armed people = stupidity all around. Selatius Dec 2011 #63
And yet state legislatures are legalizing guns in bars Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #101
You aren't going to find a lot of outrage here. YellowRubberDuckie Dec 2011 #99
 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
1. One of the reasons is the wide availablity of guns
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 01:23 PM
Dec 2011

I know our friends don't like to hear it, but it is. And yes, a KNIFE could do this, but it takes that much more work. It can also kill, but again it takes that much more work.

But truly that is one of the reasons.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
2. Gun control is now the third rail of politics. That's a good thing, as far as I'm concerned.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 02:07 PM
Dec 2011

Granted, there will always be a few politicians on the Left who will try...in vain, mind you...to push gun control, but there isn't the slightest chance of substantial gun control in the foreseeable future. Check out this map:

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
7. Sure, things might change *eventually*...but not anytime soon.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 02:59 PM
Dec 2011

Support for gun control is at its lowest point in decades right now. It's a loser of an issue, and if the Democratic party was smart they'd get it out of the party platform. I don't expect this to happen, mind you.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
22. Because we all need fully automatic FAL's to go hunting with an extended mag
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 07:47 PM
Dec 2011

It happens to be my all time favorite for the potential humor factor by the way.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
24. You know better than that.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 07:53 PM
Dec 2011

The "assault weapons" ban had nothing to do with automatic rifles.

Automatic rifles are not allowed for hunting, and most states limit hunting magazines to 5 rounds.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
25. Not where a few of our friends would like to go though
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 07:58 PM
Dec 2011

and again the FAL is truly my all time favorite for the humor factor... even the civilian version... it does have a funny safety issue.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
28. Even the civilan version has that problem
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:14 PM
Dec 2011

it is comedic one.

But since they do fire the same exact ammo at the same exact muzzle velocity... it starts to become quite academic really.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
31. You've lost me. What's "comedic" about the FN FAL?
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:23 PM
Dec 2011

I have one myself, and I've never noted anything particularly funny about it...



 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
33. Check you safety
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:26 PM
Dec 2011

it's been known to fire with the safety on if it hits anything too hard. It was an early production problem, reported present in even later gen guns.

The Mexican Military had their gunsmiths literally do a work around that problem after there were a few injuries. Hell, Fabrique Nationale started producing kits for some of this.

As I said, it is my top choice for the comedic factor and it is well known in MILITARY circles.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
37. As a medic who got to answer a few calls
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:30 PM
Dec 2011

it is down right hilarious... and no this is not the hammer down... It is everything is safe... or as safe as you can be around firearms.

Sorry, it is the inner medic in me, and gallows humor.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
40. To each their own, I guess...
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:33 PM
Dec 2011

Whatever strikes your fancy. I look to Terry Gilliam films and Terry Pratchett novels for humor, myself.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
42. Well the cop who was playing with a 25
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:35 PM
Dec 2011

cute little itty gun, that was loaded and blew his pinky... yup, he was doing all that YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO even with an unloaded gun.

Now that was legend, both in the station (where he did that) and among us silly medics.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
44. Of course he shouldn't have done that, it was a violation of every basic gun safety rule.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:44 PM
Dec 2011

Why is it funny?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
46. If you do not get the humor
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:46 PM
Dec 2011

I can't help you.

I guess you'd have to be there to get it... or not. Funny, every actual COP I have told that story to gets a smile in their face. They do get the humor in it... the stupid DARK humor.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
49. Sorry, I don't find people maiming theselves in a gun accident funny.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:51 PM
Dec 2011

As I said earlier, to each their own.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
54. I don't find them particularly funny, myself. Attractive? That's another matter.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 09:00 PM
Dec 2011

Guns can be works of art.



Well, company's here and it's time to celebrate Christmas with the family...and in any case I've amused myself sufficiently on this board for one day. G'night, all!

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
56. Yup, when you know what they do for real
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 09:05 PM
Dec 2011

they are truly a work of art. Sorry if I am not thinking in exactly the same way...

Last time I posted some of those pictures and x-rays people complained... so I will defer to the MY EYES and would like to keep my lunch crowd.

have a good one.

(And yes they can be pieces of workmanship, but pretty... not when you've seen what they can do to the human body)

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
69. I certainly know that they can do for real. That doesn't mean they're not pretty.
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 11:32 AM
Dec 2011

A couple other examples of tools that are designed for one thing, to kill people, and are elegant, pretty, and arguably beautiful:

Katana:



Spitfire:



 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
70. And your point? Yes they have artistic lines
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 01:32 PM
Dec 2011

but they are NOT pretty... nor do I consider them high art.

Sorry, when you bring a four year old with a round in her tummy to the ER it changes completely how you think about these things.

It is no coincidence that MOST combat vets who have actually seen combat disagree with that assessment of yours.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
71. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 01:44 PM
Dec 2011

I imagine that someone who's had a loved one killed by a grizzly bear doesn't think too much of them, or find them majestic and beautiful. That doesn't make the opinion of those who do incorrect.

In the end, it's simply a matter of opinion. It's not as if there's an objective definition of art or beauty, after all.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
73. That is true, but I cannot consider this pretty (graphic)
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 01:54 PM
Dec 2011


Yup that is a round thorough a child's neck

Sorry... and I am sure comparing a wild animal to a weapon made by humans is equivalent... after all I am all a fan of arming bears. What would their paws be able to handle? Hmm that is the question... methinks RPGs would be fun.
 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
77. Neither do I.
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 02:05 PM
Dec 2011

So?

As for bears & guns, I never said they were equivalent...I was speaking of people's similar reactions to 2 different methods of death. In one case, guns, in the other, a bear. You find guns distasteful because (at least in part) of your job. In the other case, a hypothetical person doesn't like bears because a loved one was killed by one. If you like, feel free to substitute dogs for bears (a lot more people are killed by dogs than bears, after all).

Is this not a reasonable analogy?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
79. No it is not
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 02:10 PM
Dec 2011

you are trying to equal instinct, to something done on purpose.

And sorry, but we will keep going on this until the cows come home.

Look I am not anti gun. I just don't consider them pretty, or pieces of art, and that includes 18th century models that are quite well done...

I would love to see certain groups NOT allowed to have guns, which means insane and those who have committed crimes...

That means that when you go sell your toys, you'd better make sure that the buyer can pass a background check, hence this should be required on all sales... I know the NRA will fight this till the cows come home. Hell, as far as the NRA is concerned we should have ZERO background checks and if I wanted to buy that SPITFIRE (assume for a second I could fly it) with all it's gun in place and the ammo to go with it, I should... or a mini fifty, or for all that matters a modern day IN SERVICE tank. No, I am not exaggerating... that is the stance of the NRA... and it is sheer insanity. So should I be able to go to Russia and buy myself a nice, up to date, export model, T-80?

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
81. I'm speaking of people's reactions to a method of death, *not* an animal's instincts.
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 02:45 PM
Dec 2011
That means that when you go sell your toys, you'd better make sure that the buyer can pass a background check, hence this should be required on all sales.

I will most likely sell them on www.gunbroker.com, as I have already done at least a dozen times. Any out of state sale would have to go to someone with a Federal Firearms License, unless the firearms in questions are pre-1899 antiques. If someone close to my home wins the auction I simply agree to meet them somewhere, they hand me the cash, and that's that...which is as it should be.

... I know the NRA will fight this till the cows come home. Hell, as far as the NRA is concerned we should have ZERO background checks and if I wanted to buy that SPITFIRE (assume for a second I could fly it) with all it's gun in place and the ammo to go with it, I should... or a mini fifty,

You already can. There a plenty of WW2 fighters in private hands, and machine guns are perfectly legal to own in most states. Why is this a problem?

or for all that matters a modern day IN SERVICE tank. No, I am not exaggerating... that is the stance of the NRA... and it is sheer insanity. So should I be able to go to Russia and buy myself a nice, up to date, export model, T-80?

You can go to the UK...

http://www.russianmilitary.co.uk/details.php?headers=land&sub_headers=TRACKED&id=212

As for owning a tank in the US, there are a number of people who do...perfectly legal. If I'm not mistaken you can legally own the cannon if you register it as a "destructive device". Here's a webpage with some destructive devices for sale:

http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/Firearms/MachineGuns_Suppressors/DestructiveDevices.cat

I particularly like the Swiss 20mm anti-tank rifle, complete with 50 factory loaded rounds. Only $18,500!

.thumb?width=800&height=620

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
85. Tricky part about those fighters and tanks
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 03:16 PM
Dec 2011

ONLY IF THEY ARE DEMILITARIZED. Which you knew.'

No I cannot LEGALLY go to Russia and buy a T-80 and bring it to the US AS IS.

There are GOOD AND VALID REASON for that.

It is good to know that you are not concerned on what hands those guns end up though...

So if they end up in the wrong hands... oh well...

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
87. Not so. Machine guns are legal in most states, and you can register a cannon
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 03:24 PM
Dec 2011

as a destructive device. I will grant that it is almost impossible to obtain a current-issue tank.

As for the guns I will be selling, I no more care whose hands they wind up in than I care whether or not a car I sell will be used in a bank robbery getaway.

If you were selling knives or bows and arrows on Ebay, would you care whose hands they wound up in? Please...

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
94. What part of demiled are you missing?
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 04:00 PM
Dec 2011

Yes machine guns are legal in most states, but every P-51, Spitfire, Mig et al I have seen has been demiled. You know that.

And if I were selling bows and arrows... since I own none... and knives, are you seriously comparing a kitchen knife, the ones I have, with a gun? Apples, rocks, now we know where you stand. In your ideal US there would be zero gun regulation.

Yes I know, it is a religion for some. Have fun.

Buy bye, I prefer RATIONAL POLICIES.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
6. I have around 100, myself...here's my latest aquisition.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 02:57 PM
Dec 2011


Steyr 1908/34 made in 1922, matching numbers (even the magazine matches!) with the original holster. Merry Christmas to me!

Paladin

(28,230 posts)
12. That Post Is In Poor Taste, For A Thread Like This One.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 03:39 PM
Dec 2011

But typical of the sort of things we see constantly from DU Gun Enthusiasts. Merry Christmas to you, indeed.....
 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
14. I was replying to someone who brought up the subject of people owning multiple guns, not the OP.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 03:55 PM
Dec 2011

Why is that in poor taste?

Paladin

(28,230 posts)
23. Show Off Your Gun Photo In The Gun Control/RKBA Group, Not Here.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 07:49 PM
Dec 2011

This thread is not the place for it, regardless of who you were responding to.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
64. +100
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 05:45 AM
Dec 2011

A thread about a tragedy resulting from use of a firearm isn't the place to be showing off pictures of firearms one owns. It's insensitive and tasteless.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
67. I would point out that I was responding to someone who used the story to make their own point about
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 11:11 AM
Dec 2011

people owning multiple guns. Was that insensitive and tasteless? For that matter, plenty of other posters in this very thread are doing exactly the same, using the story to push their gun control agenda. Is that insensitive and tasteless?

If you say yes, I'll give you kudos for consistency. If not, your outrage is rather...selective, yes?

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
66. I fail to see how showing a picture of my purchase disrespects the victim in any way,
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 11:06 AM
Dec 2011

since it has nothing whatsoever to do with the victim.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
95. "has nothing whatsoever to do with the victim."
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 04:09 PM
Dec 2011

Start your own gun masturbation thread then; not everyone wishes to see your thing in a thread such as this one which is about a senseless homicide committed with a handgun

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
65. Side note: 'Paladin' was the star character in a TV show some decades ago
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 05:52 AM
Dec 2011

You may not be familiar with it. The show's title was "Have Gun--Will Travel."


Richard Boone as Paladin


Paladin's business card:




More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Have_Gun%E2%80%93Will_Travel

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
36. Yes to both.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:30 PM
Dec 2011

I received a medical discharge very early in my service, though, so I don't consider myself a vet.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
53. Too bad.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:56 PM
Dec 2011

I was an airborne ranger, two combat tours.

Never really felt like having a gun since I got out.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
55. My BIL, a vet of the bush in Nam
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 09:02 PM
Dec 2011

feels the same way...

And the only reason we even bought what we have is because of what hubby wanted to do (use them in professional capacity)... that did not pan out. One of these years I will talk him into selling them...

We are both combat vets in a way... having seen what an AK can do to a real human body.

DainBramaged

(39,191 posts)
41. Of course, 100 guns, for when Obama takes them away you'll have a few left....
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:33 PM
Dec 2011

words cannot describe how much I loathe you. Spend money on the poor instead of death.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
47. How is buying a collectable gun that will go in my safe spending money on "death"?
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:48 PM
Dec 2011

I buy guns as a hobby and an investment. Why in the world would you find that offensive?

If it's any consolation, I don't loathe you back. At the moment, I simply find you, well...amusing.

 

styersc

(2,847 posts)
5. Thank God for the 2nd Amendment.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 02:41 PM
Dec 2011

Otherwise people in the middle of a dispute might have to work things out like reasonable people.

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
11. Exactly!! If we allowed the same gun control that has long been required in every single democracy
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 03:29 PM
Dec 2011

on the face of this earth without exception - we might be forced to deal with a far, far lower homicide rate and that is simply not acceptable.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
15. Is Switzerland part of "every single democracy on the face of this Earth without exception"?
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 04:57 PM
Dec 2011

Now granted, Switzerland has some restrictions on firearms that we don't...but the fact remains that most homes in Switzerland have one of these:



and/or one of these:



For that matter, the Czech Republic also has quite liberal gun ownership laws by European standards. In some respects, they're more lax than ours...for instance, once one legally owns a handgun, no permit is required for concealed carry, a situation replicated in only a few states here in the USA. New Zealand's gun laws aren't too bad, either.

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
20. and those guns in Switzerland are very much accounted for, It is ludicrous to imagine that there is
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 07:04 PM
Dec 2011

not a direct cause and effect of America being awash with largely unregulated guns having a higher number of homicides per year in all of Canada put together than just across the border in the city of Buffalo, New York alone. . In Switzerland people by citizenship are members of the reserve military force. Also the dynamics of a highly homoogeneous society than a highly chaotic society like America. I happen to live in a U.S. Territory where there is a very high poverty rate, a high rate of alcoholism and methamphetamine use. Fortunately, gun ownership is greatly restricted and consequently a very, very low homicide rate. Anything higher than a 22 is basically forbidden. We know what will happen if some day the crazies from the NRA try to interfere and manage to overturn the will of the people and we become as awash with guns as the U.S. mainland. Everyone knows that the gun culture of a America and its lack of a rational policy is the primary cause of the highest homicide rate in the advanced industrialized world. To deny this is disingenuous to the extreme..

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
30. Well Israelies have at home either an M-14
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:22 PM
Dec 2011

An UZI, a GALIL, or an M-16... some households, several generations, have several of these weapons...

There is a difference, like Switzerland. every gun and every round is accounted for, and once you are no longer part of the ACTIVE Reserve, they are turned back to the armory.

Comparing this to the US is just stupid.

Oh and they also have a lower gun violence ratio since most folks do NOT carry these things around. The israelis do open carry though, while in active duty (as in UNIFORM) while in the service.

Apples and comquats comes to mind.

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
32. In the Czech Republic, you don't need a permit to carry a concealed handgun.
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:26 PM
Dec 2011

There are other countries which approach the level of firearms rights in the USA.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
39. The chechs also have a MUCH LOWER ownership ratio
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:32 PM
Dec 2011

But you knew that.

And as you your rights, I always like to remind Right to bear fans that second part... something about an organized militia. So when was the last time you went to drill?

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
43. I was speaking of gun laws, not ownership rates. As for the militia...
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:41 PM
Dec 2011

From the United State Code:

311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Seems to the the unorganized militia doesn't need to drill...

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
45. Sad, if we have such an organized thing, which is NOT what the Founders
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:45 PM
Dec 2011

envisioned, with NO LARGE AND STRONG FEDERAL FORCE, which is what they envisioned. they'll run us over.

So I will ask again, when was the last time you went to drill? The Yorktown Militia met once a month for drill, for example. Granted, it also included quite a bit of beer and free grub... but that is just one example of an actual militia.

So all these militias did meet and regularly drill. Did I mention that every freeman from 16-45 was part of it? Now if you were indentured or a black slave...

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
48. What part of "all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age" wasn't clear?
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:50 PM
Dec 2011

The unorganized militia have no "drilling" requirement...rather obvious, I thought.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
50. Alas I am going over ORIGINAL INTENT
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 08:53 PM
Dec 2011

AS IN HISTORIC AND REAL MILITIAS.. like the REAL THING in the COLONIAL PERIOD.

What part of indentured or slave did you miss? That code came MUCH LATER.

And since you guys like to go over original intent, sorry for bringing out REAL HISTORY.

Now go on, enjoy your guns... just do me a favor, make sure that when you are no longer around, they end up either melted or in responsible hands. I really do not want to see YOUR FAL in the black market... (And yes there is one)

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
57. I'm certainly not going to melt them down! I plan to start selling them when I retire,
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 09:07 PM
Dec 2011

7 to 10 years from now. I figure that selling 5 to 10 guns a year on www.gunbroker.com should pay for about 15 years worth of vacations all over the world quite nicely.

Anyway, as I said in the other sub-thread...good night, and a very merry Christmas to all!

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
88. And you always have that magic ring.
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 03:26 PM
Dec 2011

So if they are stolen, no worries, you get your money and a bunch of bad guys get your guns to use which gives you and those like you more reasons to go out and by more to be stolen. How we all envy you and your 100 guns. Merry Xmas

 

Abin Sur

(771 posts)
89. You've identified what you consider to be a problem. What solution, if any, do you propose?
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 03:32 PM
Dec 2011

Please note that no argument you present has a reasonable chance of persuading me *not* to collect these guns. Do you propose anything beyond the brilliance of your logic and your forceful moral suasion?

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
92. People like you are part of a specific problem
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 03:51 PM
Dec 2011

You unwittingly supply guns to those who would use them with criminal intent and you are not held accountable when they are stolen. Instead, you get to call your insurance company, get a nice fat check and start all over again. Don't lose a wink of sleep. You perpetuate your own world. Buy, collect, lose, claim, buy, collect etc..
I don't like imposing restrictions on people, even gun owners, but you push tolerance to it's limits with your attitude. Eventually, those with such cavalier attitudes towards guns will become their own worst enemy. The pendulum will swing and eventually laws will be enacted that will make you accountable for your actions and inactions alike. Currently, gun owners are held accountable mostly by fate for their lack of responsibility. Maybe fate hasn't visited your world yet. Probably that magic ring you wear.

 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
74. Surely you can explain....
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 01:56 PM
Dec 2011

through grammar, history and law, how the militia part is a requirement, yes?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
75. You of course know, or perhaps not, that drill was required, once
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 01:59 PM
Dec 2011

a month from all members of colonial militias in an ORGANIZED militia. That was the CONTEXT the second amendment was written under. It was not written in the modern era, when our courts have revised this very historic context and excepted organized militias from this requirement.

But you keep living under another illusion, ok. I am sure so are our judges.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
78. Actually it was in some municipalities, such as york town
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 02:06 PM
Dec 2011

and the frontier all FREE MEN were members of the militia by default... I know this is not taught in school...

Now the myth is.

 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
96. Citing Michael Bellesiles?!?! "My god", indeed.
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:48 PM
Dec 2011

Last edited Mon Dec 26, 2011, 09:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Here's a tip: If you are going to try to support your claim by citing disgraced authors, you are doing it wrong.

As far as "getting difficult", yes, I am. I actually ask that people support their claims and assertions with evidence. If I didn't, I'd be a Republican. (Joke and stereotype, but I'm sure you get my point.) I stopped taking things on faith far back in grade school. I take some small pride in it, actually.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
97. As I said, actual archives would be too much for you
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:56 PM
Dec 2011

the US was not armed, colonial America WAS NOT ARMED to the teeth either.

We are a far more armed society right now than we were back then. There are good valid reasons for it, including a few facts, like if you were a slave or indentured servant it was a HANGING OFFENSE to handle firearms most of the time.

I know it is a religion, so it does not matter how much it is shown, it is DOGMA. I cannot compete with dogma. Enjoy your dogma

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
82. Do you really think it's all about permits?
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 03:10 PM
Dec 2011

It's about behavior. Stupid behavior and gun fetishism. Guns are not pretty and your pictures are pornographic. Spare us.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
90. Yes your pix are what are known as gun porn
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 03:35 PM
Dec 2011

Talking about how pretty your gun is and showing us all a picture of it and bragging about it strikes me as pornographic.
Very poor taste in a thread like this.

 

DeathToTheOil

(1,124 posts)
98. I know a guy who sleeps with his
Tue Dec 27, 2011, 01:45 PM
Dec 2011

In the literal (not sexual) sense. Takes it to bed with him every night.

Response to Abin Sur (Reply #15)

DavidDvorkin

(19,451 posts)
9. First, he wasn't defending this country
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 03:06 PM
Dec 2011

And second, he was shot by a person, not by people in general.

Crazies have always been with us. The great numbers of guns in the hands of crazies is something relatively new in history, and America is unusual in the developed world in that regard.

JI7

(89,223 posts)
21. this is one area that sets us apart from other "developed" "civilized" "first world" etc nations
Sun Dec 25, 2011, 07:13 PM
Dec 2011

you know how there are countries where we aren't surprised if there is a bombing, shooting etc because they are seen as less developed war nations.

we are still like that in some areas. a mass shooting or even just 1 person being shot in some place like Norway, Britain, GErmany etc would become national news. it's so common in America it doesn't even get much attention anymore. it's just part of America.

Selatius

(20,441 posts)
63. Alcohol + armed people = stupidity all around.
Mon Dec 26, 2011, 05:45 AM
Dec 2011

Some people simply are belligerent when drunk for reasons not yet known.

YellowRubberDuckie

(19,736 posts)
99. You aren't going to find a lot of outrage here.
Tue Dec 27, 2011, 02:24 PM
Dec 2011

Most people here don't think you should support the troops anymore, as if the simple soldier can do anything more than follow orders. Someone's probably going to tell you they deserved it for volunteering to do what he did in Afghanistan.

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