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Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:38 AM

Crying kid in diner ignites Facebook war between mom, owner

Crying kid in diner ignites Facebook war between mom, owner



http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_28511772/crying-kid-diner-ignites-facebook-war-between-mom?source=JBarTicker

Darla Neugebauer, owner of Marcy's Diner in Portland, is defending her actions amid social media uproar touched off when the child's mother blasted Neugebauer on Marcy's Facebook page. Neugebauer defended herself in a profanity-laced response. The initial wave of reaction included people who said they'll never eat at the restaurant again; this morning, although Neugebauer's post had been deleted, the diner's Facebook page was flooded with support for the owner.

Neugebauer wrote on Facebook that the girl had been crying for more than 40 minutes by the time she slammed her hands on the counter and told the girl to be quiet. She told WCSH-TV that her waitress had warned the parents that the order of three 12-inch pancakes was not only too large for the child but would take extra time to prepare. The parents nevertheless stuck with the order, she said, then proceeded to ignore their child's crying and didn't help her eat once the food arrived.

"Life's full of choices and you've got to live with all of them," Neugebauer said. "I chose to yell at a kid, it made her shut-up, which made me happy, it made my staff happy, it made the 75 other people dining here happy, and they left, they may never come back, other people may not come in. Their loss really."

Tara Carson, the mother of the child, wrote on Facebook that anyone with young children should understand that crying is normal after waiting such a long time for food.

149 replies, 6758 views

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Reply Crying kid in diner ignites Facebook war between mom, owner (Original post)
Miles Archer Jul 2015 OP
Shrike47 Jul 2015 #1
pnwmom Jul 2015 #27
yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #76
pnwmom Jul 2015 #80
yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #84
Nac Mac Feegle Jul 2015 #70
Coventina Jul 2015 #2
Warpy Jul 2015 #132
msongs Jul 2015 #3
Aerows Jul 2015 #5
Buns_of_Fire Jul 2015 #38
Are_grits_groceries Jul 2015 #41
Buns_of_Fire Jul 2015 #44
djean111 Jul 2015 #87
pnwmom Jul 2015 #28
JI7 Jul 2015 #36
Ms. Toad Jul 2015 #112
Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #42
xmas74 Jul 2015 #91
Ms. Toad Jul 2015 #115
xmas74 Jul 2015 #133
cvoogt Jul 2015 #4
Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #40
cvoogt Jul 2015 #125
1000words Jul 2015 #6
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #10
1000words Jul 2015 #12
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #14
1000words Jul 2015 #19
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #21
1000words Jul 2015 #25
ann--- Jul 2015 #34
LanternWaste Jul 2015 #67
CBGLuthier Jul 2015 #7
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #11
Paka Jul 2015 #13
CBGLuthier Jul 2015 #15
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #16
killbotfactory Jul 2015 #23
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #24
dem in texas Jul 2015 #52
Paka Jul 2015 #30
pnwmom Jul 2015 #29
tammywammy Jul 2015 #111
Paper Roses Jul 2015 #104
magical thyme Jul 2015 #39
bigwillq Jul 2015 #8
zappaman Jul 2015 #9
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #17
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #18
zappaman Jul 2015 #20
Gormy Cuss Jul 2015 #92
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #143
Gormy Cuss Jul 2015 #146
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #149
Miles Archer Jul 2015 #137
LiberalElite Jul 2015 #22
murielm99 Jul 2015 #26
Go Vols Jul 2015 #61
yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #78
LiberalElite Jul 2015 #109
Coventina Jul 2015 #116
LiberalElite Jul 2015 #117
Coventina Jul 2015 #118
LiberalElite Jul 2015 #119
Paka Jul 2015 #127
LiberalElite Jul 2015 #135
Arkansas Granny Jul 2015 #31
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #33
Arkansas Granny Jul 2015 #37
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #46
Arkansas Granny Jul 2015 #53
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #55
Arkansas Granny Jul 2015 #63
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #69
CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #81
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #82
CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #88
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #89
Paka Jul 2015 #129
xmas74 Jul 2015 #95
Arkansas Granny Jul 2015 #97
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #100
xmas74 Jul 2015 #101
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #98
gollygee Jul 2015 #113
Travis_0004 Jul 2015 #126
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #130
Paka Jul 2015 #128
ann--- Jul 2015 #32
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #35
cwydro Jul 2015 #43
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #47
kiva Jul 2015 #45
bettyellen Jul 2015 #48
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #49
bettyellen Jul 2015 #50
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #51
bettyellen Jul 2015 #56
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #57
bettyellen Jul 2015 #60
PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #66
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #71
phylny Jul 2015 #108
Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #141
Paka Jul 2015 #131
CTyankee Jul 2015 #103
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #122
CTyankee Jul 2015 #139
Divernan Jul 2015 #54
notadmblnd Jul 2015 #58
LibDemAlways Jul 2015 #59
Go Vols Jul 2015 #62
Nevernose Jul 2015 #72
LibDemAlways Jul 2015 #75
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2015 #73
LibDemAlways Jul 2015 #77
shrike Jul 2015 #106
davidpdx Jul 2015 #138
shrike Jul 2015 #142
davidpdx Jul 2015 #145
Manifestor_of_Light Jul 2015 #64
BlueStater Jul 2015 #65
CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #68
Capt. Obvious Jul 2015 #74
yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #79
Guy Whitey Corngood Jul 2015 #83
xmas74 Jul 2015 #99
Retrograde Jul 2015 #110
davidpdx Jul 2015 #140
tammywammy Jul 2015 #114
Capt. Obvious Jul 2015 #136
gollygee Jul 2015 #121
cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #123
roamer65 Jul 2015 #124
jberryhill Jul 2015 #85
steve2470 Jul 2015 #86
Coventina Jul 2015 #90
Kingofalldems Jul 2015 #93
Sunlei Jul 2015 #94
Butterbean Jul 2015 #96
shrike Jul 2015 #102
abelenkpe Jul 2015 #105
3catwoman3 Jul 2015 #107
roamer65 Jul 2015 #120
chillfactor Jul 2015 #134
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #144
CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #147
Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #148

Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:57 AM

1. Ms Carson, mother of the child, is not a very good parent if she knowingly ordered a slow dish.

I am a mother. I never let my children disturb public places by crying for 40 minutes, or 20 minutes, or ten minutes. I removed them if necessary but mainly, I planned ahead so the kids weren't faced with a 40 minute wait.

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Response to Shrike47 (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:48 AM

27. Except pancakes aren't a slow dish.

Here's a recipe for 8 pancakes that takes 20 minutes -- and that's with the batter not pre-made.

She only wanted 3 pancakes, so that should be less than 10 minutes.

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/good-old-fashioned-pancakes/


(I'm not much of a pancake person, so I linked to the recipe -- but I've watched family members cook them often enough and they can be made very quickly.)

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #27)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:51 PM

76. If she was the only customer maybe

 

You order and then they go in order. Mom is so wrong here. Rather rude to keep the kid crying that long. Why should paying customers have to listen to that?

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #76)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:11 PM

80. I read enough of the diner owner's comments to not trust anything she says. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #80)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:38 PM

84. I'll Keep that in mind

 

Thank you....more reading to do for me.

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Response to Shrike47 (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:24 PM

70. I've worked the grill in a diner

Flapjacks are easy. Just portion out your pre-made batter onto the flat-top. By the time you've put the batter back in the reach-in, you're ready to flip them. By the time you get your plate ready to catch them, they're ready to go. Just put on your sides, and move them to the window. It takes just a couple of minutes for the whole process. The whole thing about a diner kitchen is that stuff is ready to be made up and served fast.

Even Mickey Mouses only take a couple seconds longer.

The flat-top (griddle) is hot enough to cook them quite quickly.

Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt.

And the scars.


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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:08 AM

2. Three 12 inch pancakes?!?!? That is an ENORMOUS amount of food!

It sounds like the parents are idiots AND jerks!

Who leaves their kid crying in a public place for 40 minutes?

That's abusive to the child AND to the public!

I support the business 100%, assuming the facts, as reported, are true.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:00 AM

132. Right, even ditch diggers would have trouble putting that away.

What the fuck were those idiot parents thinking? Why didn't one of them take the kid outside to calm her down? What sort of MORONS don't understand what "special order" means to a grill getting slammed?

If I ever went to Portland, I'd eat there. At least I'd know those people won't be back.

While I think Neugebauer should have yelled at the parents and not the kid, I understand her frustration.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:39 AM

3. a pancake should take less than 5 minutes to cook. something else going on here nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:53 AM

5. I can order grits down here

 

and don't have these issues.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 06:54 AM

38. Some might consider grits to be child abuse.

(Thankfully, I'm not one of them. And my scientific research has also proven that 3 out of 4 toddlers prefer grits to strained asparagus. I think it's because they're more fun to dip into and smear on the table, but more research is needed. )

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Response to Buns_of_Fire (Reply #38)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:14 AM

41. Wait! Wut? nt

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #41)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:58 AM

44. Oops. 'Scuse me.

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Response to Buns_of_Fire (Reply #38)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:42 PM

87. Oh hey!!!!! Creamy grits with butter and black pepper and maybe a little cheese - oh my.

 

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:48 AM

28. Exactly. n/t

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:47 AM

36. these were 12 inches

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Response to JI7 (Reply #36)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:48 PM

112. Have you ever cooked pancakes before?

12" pancakes take exactly the same time to cook as 4" pancakes. The cook time depend on the heat of the grill and the thickness - not diameter - of the pancake.

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:36 AM

42. Yeah, 75 other breakfast eaters also in that diner. Do you think their order should have been put

 

ahead of others? I've been to busy breakfast places, the pace is breakneck and everyone present has somewhere to be very soon after and on time.

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:00 PM

91. Regular pancakes, yes.

Unless this is more like a Dutch Baby, which would be easily 12 inches in size and would take some time, since they have to be baked.

Or they were already in the weeds with orders and advised that the order would take 40 minutes for any order. Now that I could see happening.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #115)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 01:04 AM

133. That's what I figured.

Of course, once I thought about Dutch babies I really wanted one. I still want one even while typing this out.

If I walked into a restaurant and they said 40 minutes for one of those, I might wait. For regular pancakes, nope.

(Just wanted to add: they have really good prices at the restaurant. One of the meals was two eggs, bacon,sausage, corned beef hash, home fries and your choice of toast or one pancake-for $7.25! That's a heck of a good deal.)

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:49 AM

4. 3 12" pancakes for a 2-year old?!

two. years. old. 36 inches of pancake. The parents have some really unrealistic expectations of their child and the world.

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Response to cvoogt (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:12 AM

40. Maybe the pancakes are extra fluffy and she was going to use them to soundproof the little tike.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #40)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 11:26 PM

125. sound-dampening pancakes

good idea

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)


Response to 1000words (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:32 AM

10. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and speculate you don't have much experience with 2 year olds.

"your little snowflake is a brat--- and you made them that way"

Fucking really?

... at 2?


I would have taken my child out of there pretty much immediately, at that age, certainly not allowed 40 minutes of screaming in an indoor place. Yes, the right thing for the parent to do is to remove the child from the situation if at all possible.

But discipline and "control" are for older kids. 2 year olds are practically babies. They don't have a whole ton of wiring for self-control. Fuck.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #10)


Response to 1000words (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:44 AM

14. They should have removed the kid from the diner, absolutely.

But it's fucking ridiculous to say they "made their special snowflake a brat". I'll reiterate, the kid is two. I know it's fun for some folks to axe grind against helicopter parents or yuppies or special snowflakes or bronies or people with iphones or whatever the fuck is trending this week in 15 minute hate land, but the fact of the matter is, you don't "discipline" a 2 year old out of having temper tantrums.

ALL 2 year olds are "brats" sometimes, because again, they are not WIRED for a fuckload of self-control.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #14)


Response to 1000words (Reply #19)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:05 AM

21. Fair enough. Sorry, I get a little defensive when it sounds like people talk about the need to

"discipline" babies and stuff.

Brings to my mind, fairly or unfairly, James Dobson and his bullshit around "correcting" errant infants and whatnot. Sick fuck.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/09/21/248654/-James-Dobson-and-religiously-motivated-child-abuse

So that's where I'm coming from. Honestly I think the way to shut up a 2 year old is to change the channel for them, or as it sounds like in the story, feed them, because according to the restaurant owner the parents were ignoring the kid, not feeding her. Certainly if I had been the parent in question I would have been out of there after maybe 2-3 minutes of screaming, max. Then we get out and try to calm down that way. Short of being on an airplane or somewhere where it is physically impossible to leave, I wouldn't subject other members of the public to that.

They all should have handled it differently, but I don't put any blame on the toddler.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #21)


Response to 1000words (Reply #19)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:39 AM

34. Not exactly true for everyone

 

We took our kids out to eat (not in fancy places, tho) from the time they were
infants - that's the only way they learn how to behave
in that kind of social setting.

If a parent ignores a crying child for more than 5 minutes
in public that is neglect, in my opinion. She should have
take the child outside to calm her and if that didn't work,
go home.

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Response to 1000words (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:10 PM

67. And they often grow up calling another two year old as such also...

"sometimes, your little snowflake really is a brat..."

And they also often grow up calling another two year old as such...

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:17 AM

7. Everyone is wrong here except for the kid but the kid is the one who had a stranger yell at her

and make a violent gesture. I can find no way to applaud someone yelling at a small child.

I would not let my children annoy others for that length of time but on the other hand I sure as hell would not let some stranger treat my children that way.

And 40 minutes is too damned long to make 3 lousy pancakes.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:35 AM

11. No the 'special snowflake' is a 'brat', obviously the 2 YR OLD hasnt been disciplined enough



"are there no workhouses"?

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:41 AM

13. Forty minutes is also too long for any kid to be crying in public.

Bad parenting is the issue here.

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Response to Paka (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:45 AM

15. I believe I implied the parents were at fault also but if you think that is how

either a restaurant manager or for that matter anyone should be treating other people's children, I have to disagree.

She could have easily taken the parents to task without yelling the child.

I know many people think that treating children decently is some kind of newfangled progressive bullshit that leads to weak people but I think that treating children with a little respect and kindness might lead to fewer assholes and neurotics in the world.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:53 AM

16. I agree with you.

The owner should have taken the parent aside and said "hey- maybe you can take your child for a walk while we put your meal together, see if that doesn't calm her down.. the screaming is starting to upset the other patrons, you see"


But there's a lot of bullshit in the aether, and these stories seem to activate it. People - particularly ones, I've noticed, who either have never dealt with actual kids or only did so many decades ago- seem to enjoy tilting at all sorts of bullshit imaginary windmills about how parents now either coddle their kids or are overprotective or in some other way are doing parenting all wrong--

not like in the good old days when dad careened around the neighborhood with 10 cigarettes between his lips, a beer between his knees and gaggle of 4 year olds riding on top of the station wagon - seat belts are for special snowflakes, yakno! - to the toy store to buy lawn darts dipped in plutonium and red dye number two.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #16)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:12 AM

23. When my kid was young and threw a fit anywhere in public and we couldn't calm her down, we left.

No one wants to dine while a child is crying, least of all the parents.

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #23)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:13 AM

24. Right there with you.

It should not have gotten to the point it did. Sounds to me like the restaurant owner needs to switch to decaf or at least could have handled it differently- but the fact that it got to that point at all is on the parents.

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #23)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:56 PM

52. You are so right!

Yes, the terrible 2's didn't get that name for nothing. A two year old can easily get out of control. They can get worked up and once they let loose, they don't know how to calm down and get go on and on until they finally wear out. If my 2 yr olds started to cry or act out, I'd remove them from the room until they had calmed down. This is such an important lesson for the child. It teaches them that bad behavior will not be tolerated and that they need to learn self control. I had 3 kids and my son at age 2 was a total hell raiser. He turned out to be a fine man, very successful in life and has raised two beautiful daughters.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:34 AM

30. I agree with you completely that children should be treated with respect.

The owner could have restrained herself or better yet, dealt directly with the parents. I'm sure she was feeling the pain of her customers and simply lost it.

All children lose it now and then, but it is inexcusable for the parents to let it continue that long. Take the child outside if necessary, but don't subject the other customers to such an extensive meltdown.

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Response to Paka (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:49 AM

29. 40 minutes is way to long to have to wait for an order of 3 pancakes.

They could have been done in 10.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #29)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:41 PM

111. It says the parents didn't help her eat

So the 40 minutes includes after the food was delivered.

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Response to Paka (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:45 PM

104. Agree with you. The parents did not give a darn for the other patrons.

I have been in restaurants where children cry. Have never heard of a situation like this. I feel sorry for the owner. Her customers are sure to be uncomfortable dining in the same room. Shame on the patents!

Imagine what it must be like in the house with that child and the parents? What do they do, let the poor kid cry all day?

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:01 AM

39. it didn't take 40 minutes to make the pancakes. the parents didn't help her eat them. nt

 

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:25 AM

8. If a kid was crying for 40 minutes, then the parents needed to take said child outside

 

to cool off.

I did not read the link, but from what I read in the above paragraphs, I fully support the owner in this one.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:29 AM

9. Good for the owner.

If the parents don't set limits, someone else can.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #9)


Response to zappaman (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:56 AM

18. I can't speak for Maine, so, scratch that.

Hell, on the East Coast screaming at people, getting in their face and banging violently on their shit seems to be basic conversational politeness, so I rescind my point.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:01 AM

20. Lol.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:15 PM

92. Well, I can speak for Maine

Most people who were interviewed there thought the owner lost her cool and could have handled it better. This diner is in a tourist area , this is the height of summer tourism, and she's probably seen more than her share of entitled people acting badly.

That said, in Maine what she did just doesn't fly, especially the Facebook tirades. She would have had the full support of the diners though had she just calmly told the parents they were no longer welcome in her place.

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #92)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:36 PM

143. It would appear that the Washington Post agrees with you.

As do I. I don't care who you are or how profoundly annoyed you are by children or what side of the bed you woke up on, it's not okay to yell at someone else's BABY (you really shouldn't yell at your own baby, either, but that's a different discussion)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/07/21/about-that-kid-in-the-restaurant/

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #143)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 11:47 PM

146. If the screen caps I've seen are true, she referred to the child as a 'retard' on

Facebook. That's not defensible no matter how much the parents were at fault. Full stop.

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #146)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 01:12 AM

149. Agree.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 08:40 AM

137. I was born in Massachusetts and spent my first 16 years there...

...I've recently re-connected with a number of friends from those days and they derive a great deal of pleasure from using the term "Massholes."

It's TRUE..."screaming at people, getting in their face and banging violently on their shit" really was the cream in our coffee.



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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:10 AM

22. The owner should have

had them leave, rather than yell at the child. She crossed the line when she did that. Other than that, the parents are to blame.

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #22)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:42 AM

26. Yes, she should have asked them to leave.

That is her right as an owner.

If I had been dining in the restaurant, I might have asked the parent, politely, to do something about her child. I would tell her that she was disturbing others. If that had not worked, I might have spoken to the manager. If that failed, I would have left.

I raised three kids. I know what small children can be like in public if they are tired or hungry. I was embarrassed many times. What parent has not been embarrassed in public? You may think your child is the center of the universe, but the rest of us do not!

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #22)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:31 PM

61. She asked them to leave more than once

Neugebauer said the child's parents had ordered three pancakes and then didn't feed them to the girl, causing the child to cry loudly. After attempts to get the family to leave, or to take the girl outside, the diner owner said she slammed her hands down on the counter and told the girl to be quiet.


http://www.wcsh6.com/story/news/local/portland/2015/07/19/portland-diner-facebook-post/30391407/

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #61)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:02 PM

78. Well perhaps the worker was ok in this

 

I mean making 2 dollars an hour and the parents ignoring her....perhaps That was the tipping point. Poor bashing once again (not you).

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #61)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:35 PM

109. Then I think she should have called the cops -

they were creating a disturbance and refused to leave.

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #109)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:54 PM

116. Imagine how she would have been vilified for that! "Cops called on sobbing 2 year old"

This was a no-win situation for the owner.....

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Response to Coventina (Reply #116)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:18 PM

117. That headline would be twisting the facts too nt

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #117)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:21 PM

118. I think it more than likely it would be spun that way. If only to get people to read or click on

the story.

Headlines are written to generate interest / outrage.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #118)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:22 PM

119. Yup. I've clicked on a couple of unrelated stories today and then

been annoyed with myself for falling for that tactic.

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #109)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 12:10 AM

127. That's pretty extreme.

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Response to Paka (Reply #127)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 06:44 AM

135. IMO the owner had no right to yell at someone else's kid nt

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:53 AM

31. Lotsa blame to go around here.

First, the parents should have taken the child outside to calm her down or, if that failed, cancel their order and leave. No one wants to listen to a screaming child when they are trying to enjoy a meal.

Second, the owner should not have yelled at the child. If the parents are too stupid or inconsiderate to keep their child's crying from disturbing the other patrons, it is not the fault of the child. The owner would have been within her rights to ask the couple to either get the child under control or leave so the other diners could enjoy their meal.

A couple of observations:

The size of a pancake doesn't make much difference in cooking time. If the pancakes are 3, 6, or 12", they all cook for about the same amount of time. If it takes 40 minutes to make pancakes, you're doing it wrong.

Discipline is not a dirty word and doesn't mean punishment. Discipline is teaching a set of rules for good behavior and is often taught by example. Children don't ordinarily have any self-discipline, so it's up to the parent to teach their children how to behave in different situations.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #31)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:36 AM

33. Yeah, and your advice is great for "Children", not so much babies and toddlers. A 2 yr. old

isn't really in a position to "learn and follow rules for good behavior" vs. melting down when tired, hungry, etc.

2 year olds melt down sometimes, it pretty much goes with the wiring and the territory. The proper thing to do would have been to try and calm the kid down, feed the kid something besides the interminable never-arriving pancakes, or take the kid out of the restaurant until the screaming stopped. Clearly.

But this idea that the parents here arent "teaching the kid to behave" is bullshit, and completely ignores the fact that, again, the "kid" in question is 2.

And all the other bargle in the thread about how the parents "think their kid is the center of the universe" is just being pulled out of peoples' cranky butts. The parents were, by various accounts, ignoring the kid as well as the other patrons in the restaurant, at least until the proprietor freaked out. That's not 'overly coddling a special snowflake', that's being selfish, clueless, and derelict in your job as a parent. Different thing entirely.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #33)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:58 AM

37. I did not criticize the child. It was the adults in the situation who were responsible.

A child should be the center of the parent's universe, and good parenting involves teaching a child what behavior is appropriate in different situations. In this case that would mean going to family friendly venues and taking snacks or quiet activities to occupy the child while you wait for the food.

You can't expect perfect behavior from a two year old, but with discipline you teach them what is acceptable and two years old is not too young to start.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #37)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:31 PM

46. I disagree. I think expecting a 2 yo not to melt down under certain circumstances isnt realistic.

The parents fucked up in this situation, but it wasn't about "discipline", it was about responding appropriately to the kid's behavior and needs.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #46)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:59 PM

53. I agree that the parents fucked up in this situation, as did the restaurant owner who yelled at the

child. The parents should never have let the situation escalate the way it did and the owner should have confronted the parents and not yelled at the child.

That being said, discipline is a very important part of raising children and it should start when they are young. It's so much easier to teach good behavior if they haven't already learned bad behavior. Even young children benefit from knowing the boundaries and that mom and dad will be there to help them adhere to the rules. Parenting is a non stop teaching experience.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #53)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:04 PM

55. If you're going to lecture me about parenting, be prepared for me to lecture you back.

Because as far as I am concerned, people who get excessively hung up on "disciplining" children who are too young to internalize it, are part of the fucking problem.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/09/21/248654/-James-Dobson-and-religiously-motivated-child-abuse

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #55)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:27 PM

63. You keep tossing James Dobson's name out there. He's talking about punishment, which is not what

I'm talking about at all.

When you put an infant in a car seat and buckle them up every time you get into the car, you are using discipline.

When you put your child in the high chair and teach him/her not to throw food on the floor, you are using discipline.

When you teach your child to brush their teeth every night before they go to bed, you are using discipline.

Discipline can be establishing a routine for daily activities or teaching certain behaviors by providing a good example. It doesn't mean punishment and it can be beneficial for children of all ages, even the very young.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #63)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:22 PM

69. Yeah, whatever. You don't "teach" a 2 year old not to melt down. It's their wiring.

You keep ignoring the fact that the child in question here is 2. If we were talking about a 6 year old, or a 4 year old even, it would be a totally different story.

But since this is obviously going to inevitably degenerate into another one of these tired DU threads where people trot out tropes to axe grind against, and tilt at the imaginary windmills they have in their heads- it's already happened, in fact- let me add this:

All the bullshit one hears on, say, political websites where the demographics skew a bit ...older than the internet in general, crap about "in my day" and grousy bullshit about screens and minecraft and "special snowflakes" and "everyone gets a trophy"; I'm gonna add this, and then I'm done playing:

The first special snowflake generation has grown to voting age and is largely responsible for putting a Democrat in the white house for the past 7 years (and, in the process, protecting the social security of people who piss and moan about 'those kids today'). You're welcome.

The "everyone gets a trophy" kids matured into "everyone should have the right to get married" adults.
Funny how that works.

But, you know, back in the day shit was done so much better.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #69)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:20 PM

81. I'm kind of amazed by adults who.....

can't discuss a situation without resorting to the use of profanity. And don't lecture me about having "tender ears". I was an officer in the military and I probably heard more profanity in one year than you have every spoken or written in your lifetime, and it doesn't bother me in the least in the right context. However, if you can't express yourself in a conversation about small children without using profanity, you need to improve your writing skills.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #81)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:26 PM

82. Thanks for your opinion.

But honestly, I don't really give a shit. Don't like how I write, put me on fucking ignore. Or be amazed.

I suspect my post hit a nerve, that's the real issue.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #82)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:43 PM

88. Actually, no...

you did not hit a nerve, I have no children of my own - by circumstance, not necessarily by choice - so I don't want to get into arguments about how to best deal with cranky two year olds - I don't think I am qualified to an opinion on the subject unless the parents simply ignore the situation to the detriment of everyone around them.

And your profanity doesn't bother me in the least; as I wrote I have heard and seen a lot worst. So no, I won't be putting you on ignore; maybe you will have something valuable to say someday. However, as a totally neutral observer, I find that your profanity is counterproductive to making your point especially when you are discussing the behavior of little children. But hey, it is evidently tolerated around here, so rant on brother.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #88)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:45 PM

89. Well, welcome to DU.

As for your totally unasked for critique of my writing style, again, I don't particularly care. Can't fucking please everybody, you see.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #88)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 12:26 AM

129. Thank you CajunBlazer,

and Welcome to DU.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #69)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:24 PM

95. Actually, you do teach them not to melt down.

How do you do this? It's not hard. I was a single mother and I took my child nearly everywhere with me. If I wanted to go out to eat, she went with me. If I wanted to go to a movie, she went with me. She learned how to act in public at a very young age.

So, how is it done? When you take a young child out to eat you do the following things:

1) Bring something to keep them occupied. Not a loud toy or anything of that nature but a coloring book, maybe a plush toy or even a story book to read together.

2) Interact with the child. Point things out on the menu to them, ask them what they want to eat (even if they won't tell you or can't quite say it yet), talk about the table or the wall paper or anything. Just interact with them.

3) When you place the order ask how long it will take. If the server says there are a number of customers ahead of you consider leaving. Tell the server that you'd love to stay but don't think you're child can wait that long and tell them that you'll be back another time when it's not so busy or without your child. It's not a big deal but please do it before the order is placed.

If you know there will be a wait and you decide to stay:
-Always bring a snack before you ever leave the house. I always had packs of raisins in my purse or snack crackers.
-Ask the server if they have fruit, saltines or even dry cereal on hand that can be brought out with your drinks, in case you've forgotten your snack.
-Don't sit the entire time, waiting for the order. Get up with the little one and walk around, stretch your legs. As long as you stay out of the staff's way this isn't a problem at most places.
-Keep interacting with the child. Show interest.
-For pity's sake, when the food is delivered immediately attend to the child. Get that pancake cut up and ready for the little one to snack on. The adults can wait another minute, little one has waited far too long.
-Finally, if little one starts crying it's time to go outside. Take them out to walk around outdoors, if possible. As you're walking out the door let a server know that you'll be back in a few minutes to finish up. If it takes more than five minutes to calm down pop back in the door long enough to tell a server that you'll be leaving and you'd appreciate it if your meal could be packed up to go.

Over time the kids learn how to act in public places and it's not such a big deal. I left a restaurant once with my child-just once. She knew why we left. The next time we went back she did well and never had a problem. She was two years old. It's not a bad thing to teach a child how to act in public and the sooner they learn it easier it is for everyone around them.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #95)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:33 PM

97. Thank you. That is exactly what I was talking about.

I was a single mother of four. I had no problems taking my kids to public places because I had taught them how to act since they were small. We would have an occasional moment, but you deal with it and move on.

There's nothing like having complete strangers compliment you on how well behaved your children are. It makes the kids proud, too.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #97)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:35 PM

100. Yeah, I get that all the time, too.

Imagine that.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #97)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:38 PM

101. The servers would always compliment my daughter,

telling her she was such a "good girl". We had a couple of restaurant managers who would come to our table and compliment us on how well-behaved she was and how pleased they were with us choosing their restaurant. There was a diner we would go to where the manager would take her by the hand when it wasn't busy and walk her up to the counter so she could watch the short order cook. The cook would wave at her and then make her something special.

Kids love that kind of positive attention.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #95)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:34 PM

98. The parents in this situation handled it badly, we agree on that.

But I question whether your kid was "taught" not to melt down, or grew out of it naturally.

Either way, distracting them, feeding them, or otherwise addressing whatever is causing the meltdown is not "teaching them" not to do it, any more than changing a screaming baby's diaper is teaching them not to poop in their pants.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #95)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:48 PM

113. Do you only have one child?

One of my kids never had a tantrum. The other had frequent tantrums. I was the same with them. It had nothing to do with parenting.

Children are individuals, and kids who have tantrums can't help it. They have to outgrow it, and 2 is too young for that.

Having said that, if your kid is having a tantrum, you take your kid out of the restaurant. We just avoided eating out for the most part when the tantrumy kid was that age. She couldn't help it, but of course no one else in the restaurant wanted to deal with that and they shouldn't have to.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #69)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 12:03 AM

126. You take the kid outside until he clams down.

 

That doesn't seem so difficult.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #126)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 12:27 AM

130. Which is exactly what I've been saying throughout this thread.

However, a 2 year old having a meltdown isn't indicative of a "bratty special snowflake" who hasn't been "taught discipline"- 2 year olds have meltdowns, it's not about a "lack of discipline".

Abso-fucking-lutely the parents should have removed the kid after the 1st minute or so. If anyone is disputing that, it's not me. What I'm disputing are these goofy armchair parenting arguments about how "in my day kids were seen and not heard" or some such crap.

People have- predictably- taken this thread, like they always take threads like this- as an opportunity to wax nostalgic about the good old days and whine endlessly about modern parenting styles or facebook or unleaded gasoline, or whatever it is this week.

Actually, the parents in this story, if the propietor is to be believed, totally ignored their kid as well as the other people in the eating establishment. They weren't "coddling their special snowflake", they kind of forgot the special snowflake was even there with them, at least until the owner started yelling.

That, to me, is way more indicative of a 1965 parenting style, than a 2015 one.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #37)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 12:19 AM

128. Two years old is an important time to teach a child behavior.

Discipline is an integral part of love at this age. The more I read the details here, the more I keep seeing clueless parents.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:35 AM

32. No, dearie

 

anyone with children should understand that CRYING is
disturbing to everyone in the restaurant so take your
food "to go" and go home with it.

One or two minutes of crying might be enough to bear,
but any longer than that and the parent should take
the child outside to the car till s/he stops crying or
get the food and GO HOME.

Only had to do that once.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:40 AM

35. if we can ban kids from diners can we also ban old people from supermarket checkout lines?

Just askin'

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #35)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:45 AM

43. Most of the people I see with coupons are young mother types.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #43)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:32 PM

47. Not me.



But, full disclosure, I knew I'd set the teeth flying with that post. I understand my audience.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #35)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:39 AM

45. Are they screaming and crying?

If so, then yes.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #35)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:38 PM

48. And then she wanted to cash in lottery tickets and buy more.....

Straight and box. Straight and box.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #48)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:40 PM

49. see, you know what I'm talking about.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #49)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:41 PM

50. They don't always have the tell tale sales circular in hand....

But when they do- watch out!

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #50)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:43 PM

51. The overstuffed manila folder, that's what I watch for.

It's always that one line which is deceptively short. Then you get there, and see why.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #51)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:05 PM

56. I asses the line for the courtesy counter- are they merely a smoker or is this a gambler who

Wants a rain check and to send money via western union? And argue about an old receipt?
Please god No!!!

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #56)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:07 PM

57. Yes, or the interminable debate about the expired 50 cent coupon

i love that one.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #57)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:10 PM

60. Yep. My grocery is literally next door, so I shop small and often. The people there smirk as they

The puffs of smoke coming out of my ears.
The indignence of those feeling they are ripped off can be kind of cute, if I'm feeling patient. But I'm usually not. Note to self- keep busy in old age so I don't start to enjoy the A&P way too much.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #35)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:08 PM

66. Then they write a fucking check! A CHECK in 2015, FFS, like they're Amish or something!

At least have the courtesy to not shop during the lunch rush, olds!!

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #66)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:28 PM

71. ...

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #66)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:16 PM

108. and don't take the checkbook out until everything is bagged and of course

have to search for it in their purse.

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Response to phylny (Reply #108)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 10:00 AM

141. And then they write the check for an even dollar amount...

 

...and rummage around for five minutes for exact change.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #66)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 12:35 AM

131. I'm far from Amish,

and one or two times a years I write a check. I live a cash life basically, but there are still some things I am not there in person to pay, like sending money to DU and other things I support. Yes I'm old, and I do know in 2015 bitcoin reigns, but fortunately my bank still allows checks.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #35)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:45 PM

103. I hate to be that old lady counting out the pennies for the cashier but sometimes....

I am...I can't carry the pennies around forever...they get heavy...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #103)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:34 PM

122. Im sure you're fine.



It's the people who are literally there for 45 minutes haggling over coupons, that I'm talking about.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #122)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:06 AM

139. I go over my coupons pretty carefully and have them readily at hand...

so that the coupon transaction is fast. I don't like dealing with them too much unless they are for items I absolutely will buy anyway. Plus, I regularly check for expired ones and toss them prior to shopping.

It's a waste of my time, too, to haggle over coupons...

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:00 PM

54. We covered this topic in a parenting class taught by a child psychologist

Children have internal clocks when it comes to hunger. They need to eat at certain (approximate) times. If they don't, after awhile, they no longer feel hungry - but they're very upset. One Mom in the class complained that her kids were cranky at dinner time, squirmed in their chairs and didn't eat. She'd nag at them to sit still and eat and then her husband got upset with the whole crew of them. Turned out Husband ran a family owned furniture store and never got home until 7 p.m. so Mom served dinner at 7.

Meanwhile, the kids were hungry around 5 p.m. When the psychologist explained about internal clocks and feeding them early, mom whined that was the only time for the whole family to be together. Meanwhile, her husband just wanted to unwind for at least 30 minutes when he got home, before sitting down to eat. The psychologist suggested she feed the kids at 5 p.m., have dinner w/her husband and have the whole family share desert. He pointed out that there was no positive aspect to the "family time" as she was presently arranging it.

AT the next week's class, this Mom was beaming. The new schedule worked beautifully and she, Dad & the kids were all in good spirits at their respective meal times and their joint desert times.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:08 PM

58. the best way to stop a toddler from having a screaming fit

is for a 40 year old woman to throw a screaming fit right back

No one's pancakes are good enough to wait 40 minutes for.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:10 PM

59. I've been in numerous restaurants where the owner

or manager did nothing about a screaming child who was ignored by rude parents. I once posted on DU about one such incident and a flame war erupted. I received little support and was told that parents are well within their rights to allow their child to scream and throw food, and, if I didn't like it, I should stay home. And that poster was not being snarky.

From what I gather about this incident, the pancakes arrived but the parents weren't feeding the kid who was screaming and carrying on. The owner could definitely have handled the situation more tactfully, but I applaud her for considering the other patrons' right to a pleasant dining experience. The parents sound like morons.

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Response to LibDemAlways (Reply #59)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:36 PM

62. She asked them to leave a few times

Neugebauer said the child's parents had ordered three pancakes and then didn't feed them to the girl, causing the child to cry loudly. After attempts to get the family to leave, or to take the girl outside, the diner owner said she slammed her hands down on the counter and told the girl to be quiet.


http://www.wcsh6.com/story/news/local/portland/2015/07/19/portland-diner-facebook-post/30391407/

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Response to LibDemAlways (Reply #59)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:33 PM

72. Absolutely agree. Parents were cruel to the patrons AND their kid

Whatever happened to removing your screaming children from the restaurant/store/dmv/etc? It's simple courtesy to everyone else.

Yes, you're supposed to ignore a temper tantrum and not reward it. That rule, however, doesn't apply when the temper tantrum affects strangers.

In general, I'm opposed to most younger children being taken to most restaurants. Not just for the other patrons, but for the kid. Taking a two year old to a busy, unfamiliar place and then expecting her to not act like a two year old is just cruel to the two year old. In some ways it sucks to be the parent of young children; you have to sacrifice things like movies and restaurants (and sleep, and sanity).

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #72)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:48 PM

75. Agree, there are places that should be baby/toddler free zones.

My 92-year-old mother is an old school Catholic I take to church on Sundays. I can't believe the parents who bring toddlers in and allow them to cry, scream, run up and down the aisles, etc. Complaints to the ushers go unheeded. The attitude is "We don't want to rock the boat and make anyone feel unwelcome." Really? How about providing some child care so that parishoners don't have to be subjected to other people's unruly kids.

There are people with a strong sense of entitlement and no common sense who think it's perfectly ok for their kids to act up in public and other people should just accept it. It's rude and selfish, and too many people in a position to do something about it are so afraid of stepping on toes or losing business that they make life miserable for the many to cater to the rude behavior of a few.

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Response to LibDemAlways (Reply #59)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:35 PM

73. DU loves shaming "kid haters"

I imagine most of them laugh it up while their three year old brats throw food at other patrons and knock down waitresses with full trays of food because you "have to let kids be free to make mistakes".

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #73)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:54 PM

77. In my post that ignited the flame war, I started

out by explaining that I was the parent of a small child and was a teacher of small children. Made no difference. I was still accused of hating kids. You're right. No win situation.

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #73)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 06:24 PM

106. I once had a superball thrown at my head in a restaurant

Long story. And no, I didn't know the kid.

But there really has been a sea change. I remember laughing with someone about what suckers we were: we went to church, without anything to entertain us, and our parents expected us to behave -- and we did.

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Response to shrike (Reply #106)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:05 AM

138. Oh come on

Now I want to know. Superballs are not that large and pretty hard to hit someone with. Someone either had a good aim or very good luck.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #138)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:23 PM

142. Okay. You wanted to know.

We were having dinner at a local Mexican restaurant. A gumball like machine sold superballs, and a kid's dad bought him a bunch. He immediately began throwing them around the restaurant and one hit me in the head. With so many to throw, the odds were in his favor.

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Response to shrike (Reply #142)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 10:47 PM

145. Plus one thing I never thought of is that if he threw it hard enough

it could have bounced off a few different things before hitting you. God I hope his parents apologized to you.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:43 PM

64. The child should have been fed. Low blood sugar. Hypoglycemia.

I've had hypoglycemia as an adult and it is hell. The parents were irresponsible in not feeding the child. They didn't help the child eat? WTF is wrong with them?

I've had to argue with bosses that didn't want to take a lunch break, and tell them they could call my doctor and discuss it with him. The kid needed protein, not a huge pancake full of starch and sugar. A piece of cheese and some crackers maybe?

Everybody involved but the kid has serious problems. If you have hypoglycemia and don't eat, eventually you will get dizzy and pass out. You can die from low blood sugar. Everyone thought hypoglycemia was a fad disease in the 1980s but in my case it was real.

Meanwhile, the woman yells at the kid, terrorizing the kid, and the kid doesn't get fed anyway. No problems were solved. They were just made worse.




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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:47 PM

65. They're all at fault, in my opinion.

The parents are inconsiderate jerks and the owner is an asshole who thinks yelling at a child is the only way to keep them quiet.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:14 PM

68. Are parents no longer responsible for their small children?

Over the last few years it certainly seems like more parents seem think it is okay for their children to run wild and/or cause prolonged disturbances in public places. These parents seem to be totally oblivious to their children's behavior. And I thoroughly understand that dealing with some children is more challenging than others. I also understand that in certain situations, children, especially very young children are reacting, well like children regardless of how well they have been raised. However, some parents of children with unchecked disturbing behavior seem to have the attitude that they are just children and that's what children do and since they have decided to put up with it, so should everyone around them.

No, that is only what children do if their parents allow it. Parents are responsible for the behavior of young children. I think that most reasonable adults understand that children will get out of hand occasionally and are very patient with such situations, especially if the parent is doing his/her best to deal with it. What is not acceptable is for the parents to ignore the situation as if it wasn't happening rather than dealing with it or removing the child from the premise.

Allowing a child to fuss and cry for forty minutes in a public place without remedial action is totally unacceptable, regardless of the situation. If the parents were not pleased with the service at the restaurant, they should have taken it up with owner or left; it certainly is not an excuse to allow a child to disturb all of the other patrons of the restaurant.

Frankly if I had been one of the the other dinners, I would have blamed the owner for not intervening. Should she have yelled at the child? No, but I can understand her frustration. And the child stopped crying; that should tell us something. Either the parents did not try to deal with the child's crying or the child has no respect for them because she is spoiled rotten. Even if I am totally off base with that last comment, nothing excuses the parents for not taking the child out of the restaurant until she calmed down.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:47 PM

74. In general I don't believe in taking children out to eat with you

mainly because it's a waste of money: "I'll have the prime rib, my wife will have the swordfish, and our daughter will have your finest tater tots."

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #74)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:07 PM

79. Lol. So true.

 

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #74)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:30 PM

83. In that scenario the problem isn't the child. It's the lame ass "children's menu" offerings and

the parents that go along with that bullshit.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #74)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:34 PM

99. My daughter and I usually shared one meal.

The kid's menus are awful. She ate what I ate and learned to appreciate it. When they are little most places don't have a problem with it. At the most I might order an extra side of something. Chicken nuggets and tots are bad habits when it comes to dining out.

I also tipped well, which helped the situation.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #74)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:35 PM

110. I've seen it done well

I had some friends who started taking their son out to eat, once a week, when he was about 2. They started with very informal, child-friendly places and gradually moving more upscale as he grew up. By the time he was about 7 he was able to go anywhere and behave better than many adults.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #110)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:08 AM

140. Sounds like solid advice to me

Plus places that aren't as busy wouldn't have as long of a wait for food. I get the sneaking suspicion that the restaurant this took place in was pretty busy at the time.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #74)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:50 PM

114. I have a friend whose kids was awful one time at a restaurant.

Not screaming or crying, but he was just gross dunking pizza in ranch and getting it everywhere. He was 9 at the time and knew better. I told him if he ever acted like that again I'd never go out to eat with him again. I love that kiddo and he loves me....he hasn't acted like that again. But also, if we go to a place that tends to take longer, we order his food with the drinks.

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Response to tammywammy (Reply #114)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 08:33 AM

136. We do that too

I think before we even sit down we order the kids' food.

Another trick we learned is to let our daughter bring a friend or cousin. I don't know why it works since the kids just sit there playing on their phones, which she could do just as easily by herself.

If it's just the three of us our daughter will constantly touch mommy and say, "mum... mum... mum.. mum... mum... mum... mum... mum... mum... mum..." until she's ready to explode. Doesn't bother me though.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #74)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:23 PM

121. Well, this is a diner

Wouldn't it be more like I'll have the BLT, my husband will have a bowl of chili, etc.?

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #74)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:38 PM

123. Should have taken the kid to Chuckee Cheese. n/t

 

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #123)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:42 PM

124. Then they could have had an outright brawl.

Including gunplay in the parking lot like that one CEC in Florida.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:39 PM

85. You address the parents not the child


Clearly, if the child was causing a disruption, the parents should take the child outside.

Clearly, if someone is in your business, and their child is causing a disruption, you address the parents, not the child.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #85)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:41 PM

86. +1 nt

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #85)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:51 PM

90. The parents had been addressed several times, to no effect.

Apparently, the two year old was more mature than they were.
She at least acknowledged that another human being was unhappy besides herself.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:20 PM

93. Well now I'm hungry for some pancakes.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:24 PM

94. now the media brings us click interviews with, The "SHUT THE FUCK UP" Screamer.

at least its free to view

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:31 PM

96. Seems to me that all the adults in this particular story

behaved like jackasses. The parents for not feeding their screaming child and for letting said screaming child go on screaming without intervening or removing the child from the situation, and the owner for yelling at the child instead of remaining calm like she should have done.

I have 2 kids, and they have had their fair share of meltdowns. First rule of parenting: always have an exit plan (and be willing to use it at any given moment). Second rule of parenting: always have a backup plan, in case your first plan fails.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:41 PM

102. Sounds like long waits are a given at this place


I read the Yelp reviews, and while almost all of them rave about the food, many reviewers also mention waiting thirty or forty minutes for breakfast. Also, the dining area sounds VERY tiny. So a kid letting it go with both barrels might have sounded worse there than at a bigger restaurant.

If the parents had checked on Yelp and noted the long wait times all of this might have been avoided.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 06:14 PM

105. They ordered too much food?

So what. Not really anyone's business. Pancakes take forty minutes to make? Sounds like an understaffed busy restaurant.
Yelling at someone who is crying never helps. Why is it ok to yell at a crying kid? Seriously f'd up. Ask the parents if you think they're being rude. Ask the restaurant to make pancakes within a reasonable amount of time. But yelling at someone else's upset kid? Totally unacceptable scumbaggery.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 06:34 PM

107. When my now 22 yr old was about...

...10 months old, we were in a small restaurant with family and friends. My son had casts on his feet to correct a minor congenital orthopedic problem. He was seated in an old-fashioned wooden high chair and was having a grand old time drumming his plaster-clad feet on the wooden foot support. It was really loud. No crying or screaming - just "drumming." Several different attempt to distract him failed utterly, so after about 5 minutes, he and I left and went home. My husband brought me takeout.

I would have done exactly the same thing if he had been having a meltdown, or otherwise behaving disruptively.

Regardless of what the restaurant owner should have done or not done, the parents should have left with their crying child. subjecting the rest of the diners to a crying toddler for 40 minutes is rude and thoughtless. Toddlers and preschoolers need to be able to count on adults to act like adults.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:08 PM

120. Hard to tell which ones were the children without being present.

The selfish, inconsiderate "parents" or the screaming brat, but my money is on the "parents". Hats off to the owner for tolerating 40 minutes of them. She lasted longer than I would.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 02:06 AM

134. I have eaten in places with unruly kids....screaming, yelling, crying....

it is no fun eating in a place like that,,it was up to the parents to handle that child and they apparently did not

when my kids were little and were causing a distrubance..my husband or I took them back to the car until they settled down...it did not take very long to settle a child down...

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:47 PM

144. Thanks God someone is taking a STAND by SCREAMING at a BABY!! Woo-Hoo!!!

Yes, it's time all of us reasonable composed adults make it clear that unruly tantrums are unacceptable, preferably by freaking the fuck out, banging on counters, and yelling at the top of our lungs at a 21 month old.

FUCK YOU, BABY! SHOW SOME FUCKING RESPECT!



WOO-HOO IM A FUCKING HERO OF ADULT FUCKING REASONABLENESS BECAUSE I SCREAMED AND YELLED AT A FUCKING BABY!


https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/22/im-the-mom-whose-encounter-with-an-angry-maine-diner-owner-went-viral-heres-what-happened/

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #144)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 11:47 PM

147. I see you're still trying to make your points using potty mouth language

I'll bet your parents were proud of their parenting skills. It is difficult to accept your "expertise" on how children should be treated when you, an adult, lack the self control of most children.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #147)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 01:09 AM

148. Yep.

Irony, it's the shackles of youth.

And you know what? If any 21 month olds are reading this thread, I'll apologize to them for my inappropriateness.

However, assuming we're all adults, I suspect people can survive a few "fuck"s. (If not- you know, delicate ears and whatnot- then again, that little man icon with the red "x" is the ignore button. Works great.)



Also, speaking of which- just so we're clear- I don't give a flying philadelphia one whether you like my writing style OR accept my expertise on parenting matters. If you really think 21 month olds only have meltdowns because they haven't been "properly disciplined", great, bully for you.

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