As a Tennessean, it is odd to see how the murderous rampage

[redstateblues]

That has so shaken our state was just a blip on the national consciousness that is DU. Maybe it's just because TN is considered a backwater state and there aren't that many liberals outside of Nashville but we have become numbed to these events. It's the new normal.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

1. It's not the state that matters

All I'll say is it's not surprising this story isn't "moving the needle" here.

[cwydro]

8. You're right.

I know what you're saying.

[Ex Lurker]

9. Yep

Red state, military victims, Radical Islamist perpetrator. Any and all of which make this incident problematic for some DUers. Note I say some, not all. Change the facts and you'd get a completely different reaction on this board.

[treestar]

42. I've haven't seen much about the burned black churches either

well the media isn't paying a lot of attention to that either

[pecwae]

66. I don't want to type

all the plus ones that would be adequate for this response.

[X_Digger]

68. It's 'the optics'.

I shit you not, I read that today.

[gratuitous]

2. Agree and disagree

The shooting has dominated the last several news cycles, so I think it has been in the national consciousness. But we have indeed become numbed to people going on shooting sprees. Everything is a rush to "slot" the latest massacre, whether it's whatshisname who was just found guilty in Colorado, or Dylann Roof in Charleston. As soon as we "know" who the shooter is, we slot it into one of several pre-arranged categories and move on.

If you remember the scene in The Big Chill, where the William Hurt character talks about the news reports of casualties from Vietnam, our country's first living room war, the first report elicits the response "My God, that's horrible!" The second report is, "Oh dear." the third report is "I'm hungry." These massacres are coming so thick and fast, we just don't fucking care anymore. We know what causes it, but we don't care enough about our fellow human beings to do anything to stop the next one. Well, there's the fear of the yammerers, too. But we're more scared of the gunhumpers than we are of more people dying needlessly. We apparently think we need the gunhumpers, who have convinced us that we need them.

[redstateblues]

3. Thanks for you thoughts. When it's close to home

It has more impact. I appreciate your insight. It helps.

[gvstn]

12. Close to home does make a difference.

I think the idea of home invasions are horrifying but until there is one near you then they are sort of abstract. There have been two home invasions in neighborhoods that I have lived in and in the one I actually live in. That brings it close to home and makes it much more real.

The other thing that I think contributes to this rampage not getting that much coverage is that the shooter and his motivations have been identified which takes the curiosity factor out of discussions. And that there were four people involved. We have been so numbed to these events that four people doesn't sound like a mass killing anymore. I would not be surprised if the media doesn't soon decide to change the definition of mass killing to a higher number than the more than 3? that I believe it is at now. Sort of like they did with "heatwave" to avoid validating global climate warming. A heatwave used to be 3 days above 90 and then they changed it about 10 years ago to 5 or more days above 90+. That way they can say there are less of them then we all know to be true.

I think S.C. got the coverage it did because it was racial (which is topical) and because it was a church. The shooter and his motive were identified early on but the fact that he sat and prayed with these people for 45 minutes before shooting them cuts through even the most jaded of us.

I have a friend who lives in Tn. It makes me very conscious of this last shooting and my sympathies go out to you and yours. Take care.

[steve2470]

4. I don't address it here for two reasons: it's depressing and futile

The depressing part is obvious, and the futility comes in seeing two sides square off with the same arguments time and time again. Almost nothing new is stated, and heated disagreement is the norm. When all those kids died at Newtown and absolutely nothing was done... that was extremely discouraging.

[redstateblues]

6. Sad but true.

What makes me crazy is I have friends that always pack heat and are members of the NRA and they are all in favor of stringent background checks but it doesn't seem to matter.

[JustAnotherGen]

15. Plus 1

4 or 26 - nothing is being done.

[malaise]

49. Seriously I still haven't gotten over both the deaths of those little children

at Newtown and the fact that nothing was done to stop the guns.

[gwheezie]

5. It was difficult to watch the trip to Dover.

That line of cars carrying the bodies. Just horrifying. What a tragic loss, 3 of them made it home from the war and died here. My heart breaks for their loved ones and our country.

[steve2470]

7. +1 nt

[PowerToThePeople]

10. Ban all Guns!!

Another mass shooting, appears to be a weekly occurrence anymore.

Same issue as always, too many guns too easily acquired and used for their designed purpose.

Ban all Guns!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. Ban All Guns, fine by me .

[irisblue]

11. I think we're starting to numb out.

and that is horrid

[ronnie624]

13. I think, for some posters,

"DU" is a surrogate for 'liberals' or 'progressives'.

Were you torn up enough, to post extensively about each of the 300 some-odd murder victims in Tennessee, last year? You seem to believe that people should be more upset about these murders than others, because the victims were members of the military.

[murielm99]

14. I don't think that is fair

to the OP at all. He said nothing about the military.

Of course his state is shaken up. If it had happened in my state, I think all the people around me would have been discussing little else. And we have plenty of murders here, given the crime rates in Chicago and some of our other large cities.

Too many people here are having childish pissing contests over Bernie and HRC to pay attention to anything else.

I am sickened by these murders. I am not the only DUer who feels that way.

[Fumesucker]

16. The identity of the victims and the identity and motivation of the killer are the deciding factors

Some killers and victims fit a politically useful stereotype and some do not.

[cwydro]

28. What you said.

This particular heinous killing does not give some DUers the correct talking points for endless threads and spin-off threads.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

37. This. :(

nt

[Romulox]

44. Man, some DUers were practically *salivating* over this TN shooting,

when the original description was all we had to go by.

[snagglepuss]

53. That's quite a smear. Care to cite one example.

[Romulox]

54. If it doesn't apply to you, shrug it off.

You aren't the moderator, here.

[Henryville]

69. Which was what?

Disgruntled military?

[ronnie624]

52. I agree.

Many DU posters are probably well aware of the emotionalism associated with these victims, and how it can be used in the promotion of certain agendas (and most assuredly will be), and they don't wish to be party to the process of manufacturing consent for things they disagree with, like universal surveillance and aggression in the Middle East. It doesn't mean they don't care about the victims, as the OP seems to imply.

There are reasons for why terrorists attack us.

[melman]

62. You got it

It is so glaringly obvious.

[DawgHouse]

72. ITA.

[RandiFan1290]

17. You could probably find the reaction you are looking for

on freerepublic or stormfront.

[cwydro]

33. That was uncalled for. nt

[Vinca]

18. I gave up after Sandy Hook.

Nothing shocks me anymore and since nothing will ever be done in this country to address gun violence, I try to put these events "on the shelf" and not dwell on them. It's clear we're powerless to do anything other than cry when it happens. In this case, the "solution" seems to be arming people in recruiting centers as if those guys would have had a chance to get their weapons out of their holsters when confronted with semi-automatic arms fire. (The solution for the last massacre was taking down flags, not regulating guns.) I'm not opposed to having people in uniform carry guns, but it's not the solution to the real problem. I'm sorry for Tennessee, but even your Democratic congressman is proposing more guns as the remedy.

[gratuitous]

45. I really got pissed after Nickel Mines

And, if you the reader at DU, look at "Nickel Mines" and struggle to remember what that might have been about, then you know why I'm in an ongoing state of pissed-off over the current fear, hatred and violence our society loves so much.

[AngryAmish]

19. It is the south, and DU considers southerners as subhuman.

Whenever mockery is to be had, DU will mock the south. They are the Other, hated and despised .

[DrDan]

20. nothing like some good-ol' bigotted region-bashing to get the DU blood flowing

used to be against the TOS . . . not any more

[gollygee]

23. Oh please

Charleston is also in the south.

[AngryAmish]

24. You proved my point.

Thanxs!

[gollygee]

25. Ok then. . .

your point appears to not be very clear if it is something other than that people don't care about tragedy in the south because they only see the south as something to mock.

[Paladin]

47. Next time something more serious than a toe-stubbing happens in Texas......

....watch the frothing-at-the-mouth reaction that ensues around this place.

[cwydro]

30. Well, South Carolina is in the south too.

There were (and still are) endless threads about that massacre.

But I agree with what you said about the south-hate here.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

46. Your statement is a rather broad, and rash

generalization that is, in fact, the antithesis of what DU is, for me anyhow. There are regional differences in our country I'll agree, but to say all of DU feels like that is the same as saying all black men are good basketball players..........

[Codeine]

58. Oh baloney.

It's about who did the shooting and about who got shot. DU too often tiptoes around the one while secretly exulting in the other.

[treestar]

60. So you think DU is mocking the South by not having enough threads

about this massacre?

How many threads do we need to avoid this form of South Bashing?

[mnhtnbb]

21. I had a TN woman friend drop me on fb after the Charleston murders

because I was flabbergasted that a group of women friends we were both in
and had a private group on fb where we chatted about things all day didn't
want to discuss the Charleston murders. I ended up withdrawing from the group--which
I had created--because I need to be able to discuss politics, education, religion, health
care...all kinds of issues...with my friends or, they really aren't friends and why should
I waste my time?

Ironic, isn't it, that the next murderous rampage happens in Chattanooga, where she lives.
I wonder if she wants to discuss anything now?

[gollygee]

22. It is horrific how often we are having mass murders by gun

Horrific and sadly common enough that, unless there is something unusal about that particular mass killing, there's only so much to say. I'm horrified and sad, and I know nothing will happen as a result, which makes me yet more horrified and sad.

[JustAnotherGen]

26. I'm not sure I'm horrified anymore

Sadly - it is beginning to feel like the new normal. Like - not if - but when.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. It's been in TV news coverage constantly since it happened.

Why is it not so much on DU? Maybe because there's not a lot of other angles to it? Doesn't appear to be motivated by racism, no kids involved, not an attack on civilians. Just somebody who probably saw himself as a fighter in a war attacking the US military. I guess the only difference is that the attacks took place 'here' rather than 'there'.

[Novara]

29. Another day, another shooting

Life in America.

Sorry to be so flip - I'm burned out on the ubiquitous amount of gun violence in this country. As soon as this one happened the news pundits were already making excuses why nothing will be done on gun control and they've resigned themselves to accepting it as the way of life here in America. The sick thing is, no one even wants to try to stop this from happening anymore.

The NRA has won.

[countingbluecars]

31. Perhaps you should start a thread

discussing this horrific event and its implications for Tennessee and the United States. Might be more constructive than a complaint thread.

[treestar]

32. You think we're ignoring it because we don't like Tennessee?

Seriously?

[HereSince1628]

34. Do you remember the Azana Spa mass shooting spree in WI? Probably not.

For most Americans, these terrible events happen elsewhere and they often rise just above the background slaughter regularly reported in metropolitan news.

A handful of recruiters are ambushed by an Islamic radical, 35 people are slaughtered in Chicago in one weekend. That's background for most of us. Stuff that happens elsewhere.

Our focus in Wisconsin is the year over year doubling of shootings in Milwaukee... unless we don't happen to live in Milwaukee.

This bad stuff happens elsewhere...and we may actually -need- to view it that way to protect ourselves from the trauma of it.

[Person 2713]

35. There are 5 victims dead now . Just saw in a post here on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141149688

[dballance]

36. I am from TN. Gallatin - north of Nashville. The state doesn't matter

Shootings of people are so common place these days it is not a surprise that it doesn't get mass media coverage.

As a long-time DU-er I could post many threads about how horrible the shooting was. But I'd just be preaching to the choir. I wouldn't be changing any hearts or minds because I'm pretty sure most everyone on DU would agree with me.

[mnhtnbb]

40. See my post #21 about trying to open discussion with people whose hearts and minds

aren't concerned with these mass shootings. And the woman in a group of 13
who was offended by my concern? A typical Republican who happens to
live in Chattanooga.

[dballance]

65. Your experience with that group is sad but all too common.

So many people just wish to ignore reality rather than deal with it.

If you've ever seen or read "The Prince of Tides" you know that it is very Southern to never come to terms with the bad things people do.

[treestar]

41. there's not much left to say

that hasn't been said. See below we wind up talking about how to label it. And gun control comes up every time. When Newtown didn't get people to want gun control, it seems kind of hopeless to get into the latest one as a wake up call. Maybe the sheer numbers of these attacks will finally get people to realize it is happening too much.

[tularetom]

38. What can we say that hasn't been said 100 times already?

It's life as we have come to know it in 21st century America, as depressing as that is to realize.

[madokie]

39. Our morning paper called it an act of terrorism

but failed to use that word when the rightwing home grown kid killed the good folks in NC a few weeks back.

We need to get the Human killing machines out of the hands of murderers and terrorist. There IS a difference between a human killing machine and a hunting riffle or shotgun. Pistols to me are mostly for killing humans too. I know there are those who hunt with a pistol but I personally have never known someone who does. This of course is IMHO

[malaise]

50. True

but you mean SC not NC unless I missed another slaughter

[madokie]

67. OOPs, mybad

[Romulox]

43. 9 or 10 people will be killed in any given weekend evening in Detroit, Chicago, etc.

What are YOU doing about gun violence in Detroit, hmmm? Don't you care????

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

70. There's a subject even less likely to be talked about here on DU n/m

[Romulox]

71. BUT WHAT IS THE OP **DOING** ABOUT IT???!!!???111???

[hollowdweller]

51. I think with the radical Islamic ideology that is the fad now along with easy availability

Of high capacity weapons we will see more of this sort of stuff over and over.

I don't think that states like TN will do anything to curb the weapons being used. It's just not politically possible.

I also don't think that the Islamic religion seems to be able to speak with one voice regarding some of the extremely bad things being done by their adherents.

To me the global Islamic movement that sort of makes this possible is sort of like the hippie movement of the 60's and 70's, except it's the opposite as far as the aim. Seems to be spreading thru all countries, like long hair the hijab and Islamic dress is the uniform. Seems to be sort of a youth movement.

In time all or most of the violent hippies turned to politics instead to achieve their goals, it seems like the current global Islamic radical movement sort of rejects politics but hope remains that they will eventually embrace them.

What is good for us in the US I guess is this movement seems now to be focusing less on attacking the US, I mean we are no longer occupying any Islamic countries, and they are focusing more on killing their co religionists the Shiites or other sects in the region.

What I find interesting is Reagan pulled US troops out of the middle east and we really did not experience any terrorist attacks again till the during the Clinton admin and at that point it was allegedly due to Bush being in Saudi Arabia.

I think Obama is pursuing the right course getting us out and I worry about the current crop of GOP people wanting to get us back in.
In the absence of large numbers of US troops in the middle east I think they will occupy themselves with sectarian war and many of the young recruits from western countries will wind up going there to kill other muslims rather than staying here.

[Arugula Latte]

57. Most of the gun violence in the US is committed by white non-Muslim guys, though.

[madville]

59. Actually it is black males per FBI and DOJ stats

And most of the time a black person is killed (around 90%), it is a black male killing another black person.

"Mass shootings" are primarily white males though if that is what you are referring to. It's strange law enforcement or the media doesn't count a group of black teenagers getting gunned down on a Chicago street corner every weekend as a "mass shooting", it barely makes the news.

[Blue_Tires]

55. uh... what?

[Arugula Latte]

56. The Gun Nuts have won. This is the now normal. Expect more and more carnage.

The United States is a depraved society when it comes to guns and senseless massacres. And that's how people want it -- including a lot of people on DU. They are happy to have more and more people mowed down as long as they can keep humping more and more guns. Even 26 young children dying didn't lessen their ardor for access to their "preciouses."

Sad but true.

[Ghost in the Machine]

61. What was even worse was the fact that CNN was covering it before any of the local Chattanooga

stations were... for the first hour or 2, all the stations were showing CNN clips and referring to them. I have a good friend whose father was on the scene as it was going down. She had a facebook post saying "My daddy is at the shooting scene in Chattanooga, please pray for him. At least he's wearing a bulletproof vest though".

Peace,

Ghost

[russ1943]

63. Tennessee does have gun death problems.

It’s true our firearms deaths (and injuries) problem is national and Tennessee isn’t as bad as Louisiana, but Tennessee has a serious firearms death problem.
A few years ago Jan 2012 I posted ;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=11018

Relative to Tennesee the state of New York has over three times as many people and yet there are more people in Tennesee each year that die from gunshot. The 12/7/2011 National Vital Statistics Reports Final Data for 2008 demonstrates that 963 people died from gunfire in all of NY while 985 people died from gunshots in Tennesee. With that population disparity that means the rate per 100,000 of people dying from guns some 322% higher in Tennesee than in NY. (15.8 v 4.9). Nationally the rate is 10.4.


More recent statistics available for 2013 show Tenessee’s firearm deaths & death rates are higher than the U.S. and New York still. In 2013 Tenessee had 1,030 of its residents die by firearm, a rate of 15.9 per 100,000.
Nationally the rate was 10.7 and New York’s three times larger population experienced a fewer 863 firearm deaths which was a much lower 4.4 per 100,000 rate.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf Table 19, & WISQARS

[Octafish]

64. So, post your thoughts, redstateblues.

The murderous rampage is important news and deserves discussion on every level.

Please share your thoughts.