Greece’s fight is for democracy in Europe. That’s why we must support it -good read

[malaise]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/06/greece-democracy-europe-eu
<snip>

From the cradle of democracy, a lion has roared. It is difficult to overstate the pressure the Greek people have both endured and defied. A country that has already experienced an austerity-induced economic disaster with few precedents among developed nations in peacetime has suffered a sustained campaign of economic and political warfare. The European Central Bank – which has only recently deigned to publish some of the minutes of its meetings – capped liquidity for Greek banks, driving them to the verge of collapse. There were stringent capital controls, and desperate queues outside banks followed. A country desperate to stay within the euro was told it would be ejected, and with calamitous results.

Martin Schulz, the European parliament’s president and a so-called social democrat, whose attitude towards democracy can be generously described as ambiguous, called for the removal of Greece’s elected government in favour of a technocratic government.

It wasn’t bluster. That’s what the EU and the markets previously pulled off in Greece and, yes, in Italy: however much justifiable distaste exists for Silvio Berlusconi, it should have been his own people who removed him. In Greece itself, the oligarch-owned “free media” acted as a political machine (sound familiar?), pumping out relentless propaganda in favour of capitulating to the creditors’ demands. An alliance between Greece’s economic elite and the EU great powers told the Greek people: however tough your lives have been in the last few years, your world will cave in unless you acquiesce. And still the Greek people voted no – not narrowly, but overwhelmingly.

The referendum was, of course, a rejection of an austerity programme that has unleashed what is commonly described in Greece as a humanitarian crisis. Since Lehman Brothers crashed in 2008, austerity has always relied on the displacement of blame from elites to elsewhere. It was Goldman Sachs who helped the then Greek government to cook the country’s books to win entry into the euro. It was German and French banks who profitably and recklessly lent to Greece, just as US banks disastrously showered subprime mortgages on low-paid Americans. It was Germany who benefited from being able to export its consumer goods to peripheral European countries such as Greece.

But the EU is in a genuine bind. If Greece is ejected from the eurozone, the currency is no longer an indivisible union and a precedent will be set for the ejection of its members. If the ECB abandons Greece, the eurozone’s reputation will not recover. This is why Greece has bargaining power in its quest for debt relief and for an abandonment of austerity that has already ravaged the country. The EU still wishes to make an example of the country: by forcing Syriza to implement policies that will destroy the government, by making “the economy scream” (to quote Henry Kissinger) until it is ejected from office, or even a disastrous default and removal from the eurozone. It may still succeed. And that is why Greece desperately needs support.

[hill2016]

1. ok what if

the other countries also hold their own elections and decide not to continue lending money to Greece.

Would that also be an expression of democracy?

[malaise]

2. The European Bank is a country?

Don't be simple

[hill2016]

3. it answers

to politicians.

[hill2016]

4. the

Maastricht treay bans monetary financing of deficits. If Greek is in default then the ECB can't continue to extend credit to Greek banks.

[tech3149]

5. I think in this instance it would do well to simplify the primary discussion

In any financial relationship between lender and borrower there are two sides to the equation. Why should the borrower be more responsible in asking for a loan than those willing to offer it? If the lender did not recognize the risk of non payment should we support them for their ineptitude? If you want to dig a bit deeper, was the initial debt really for the benefit of the Greek people? If not, why should they shoulder the responsibility of repayment? If so, what is the problem with restructuring payment in a manner that does the least harm to those who were least responsible for the debt?

[mythology]

6. As the beneficiaries of Greek's very lenient pension systems and the amount of money

spent on government employee salaries as a percent of government spending, how is it that the Greek people are the "least responsible for the debt?" It's not like they voted for governments that took a different path.

[tech3149]

7. Oh Please!

If you could do an actual comparison between the income of government employees to the tax avoidance of the ultra wealthy you would probably see that big salaries and pensions are just pennies on the dollar.
If there has been anything lenient in Greece's policy it has been tax policy and collection.

[malaise]

11. The real problem on our planet is the way private debt becomes

public debt and then they loot our pensions and expect the state to lay off workers while they provide even more loans for the banks and corporations - not to mention states bailing out the criminal banks.

Neo-liberalism is usury on steroids.

[Travis_0004]

8. I agree

The citizens have every right to refuse to repay their debts.

The only sensible action for the Troika to take is to stop giving them more loans to default on. Greece would be forced to leave the European Union, which is probably what is best for everybody.

In some ways I see Greece as a kid who is borrowing 1,000 a month from their parents.

Their parents want to cut them down to 600 a month, and Greece is having none of it.

If they tell their parents to fuck off and now get 0 a month are they better off? Maybe. I guess we will wait and see.

[snooper2]

9. by supporting it does that mean you'll start shipping free bread to Greece?

[forthemiddle]

10. What if (in an alternate universe) the EU wiped out all of Greeces debt

Let's not even talk about restructuring, and lets pretend that there was a Jubilee of all past debts, could Greece finance its government without any austerity on its own, or would it still need loans to even function day to day?
I am unsure of this point, and to tell the truth I am not interested in whose fault it is at this point (Greece or the Big Banks, or even the EU). Mistakes were made, so let's hypothetically move on for right now.
Can Greece function on it's own, or is it still in need of more loans to meet its everyday obligations?