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Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:50 PM

 

Conservatives Explain Why They Lost On Marriage - HuffPo

Conservatives Explain Why They Lost On Marriage
Gabriel Arana & Lila Shapiro - HuffPo
Posted: 06/30/2015 11:03 am EDT Updated: 30 minutes ago


Flickr/Arturo Pardavila III | Flickr

<snip>

You could imagine Moral Majority founder Jerry Falwell turning in his grave when the Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage nationwide on Friday.

It was a stunning, stinging loss for the religious right, a group whose power little more than a decade ago seemed ascendant. When George W. Bush was elected in 2000, more Americans said they voted for him because of "moral values" than any other reason.

Cut to June 26, 2015, when the court's gay marriage ruling set off rejoicing among gay rights supporters across the country. The White House lit up in rainbow colors to commemorate the decision, as did the Empire State Building and One World Trade Center in New York City. Major U.S. corporations including Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon, AT&T, McDonald’s, Coca-Cola, Disney, Macy’s, Target, Visa and Budweiser rushed to show their support with statements and pro-gay marketing materials.

Support for gay marriage now stands at over 60 percent -- up an astounding 25 points from just over a decade ago.

Amid the electricity outside the court on Friday, where gay rights supporters danced, chanted and waved signs, Russell Moore, the president of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, delivered a somber statement. “We need to be the people who know how to articulate a Christian vision of sexuality that will be increasingly countercultural from this point on,” he said.

There are a few questions on the minds of social conservatives in the wake of the landmark ruling: How did we get here? What mistakes did we make? And who are we in this new America?

In an interview, Moore told The Huffington Post that one of the movement's main mistakes in the gay marriage fight was assuming traditionalists would always have public opinion on their side. Social conservatives didn't anticipate or prepare for the dramatic turnabout in national sentiment on this issue over the last 10 years, he said, assuming they'd always operate from a position of strength in the culture war. They believed that fundamentally, Americans shared their values...

<snip>

More: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/30/conservatives-gay-marriage_n_7695816.html



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Reply Conservatives Explain Why They Lost On Marriage - HuffPo (Original post)
WillyT Jun 2015 OP
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #1
WillyT Jun 2015 #2
Betty Karlson Jun 2015 #7
Arugula Latte Jul 2015 #14
closeupready Jun 2015 #3
HooptieWagon Jun 2015 #4
underpants Jun 2015 #5
Liberal_in_LA Jun 2015 #6
gratuitous Jun 2015 #8
karadax Jun 2015 #9
Major Nikon Jun 2015 #10
Skittles Jun 2015 #11
friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #12
MisterP Jul 2015 #13

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:55 PM

1. That last excerpted line has it.

Fundamentally, Americans do NOT share their values. They're NOT the silent minority, they're the noisy and hateful minority.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 01:59 PM

2. Exactly...

 


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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:15 PM

7. You said it.

 

They were always the minority, claiming the consent of those they had silenced.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 1, 2015, 01:35 AM

14. Reminds me of the old bumper sticker: "The Moral Majority is Neither"

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:01 PM

3. The internet, too, had a lot to do with it. Back home, you can be ignored.

 

On the internet, you don't have to let people get away with shunning/dismissing you.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:40 PM

4. Several reasons, imo.

 

Old people died, And younger generation more tolerant. Positive exposure of gays on TV and movies. Gay singers and athletes coming out. RR living in a self-righteous bubble, assuming everyone agreed with them.
Perhaps most important, all the anti-gay measures enacted a decade ago. People recognized that as just mean-spirited. At that time, the country (as a whole) perhaps wasn't quite ready to accept gay marriage, but would have accepted civil unions with no problem. The overreach by the RR caused most of those favoring civil unions to say "fuck it, I'm for full marriage rights now".

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 02:55 PM

5. Will&Grace and Fox News

I completely agreed that the visibility of the gay community played a huge part in this. Co-workers as well as family members are a direct connection that changed many people's perception. Religous folks just don't want to think of themselves as hating so the vitriolic language didn't make sense with what they were seeing right in front of them.

In an indirect way projections, more realistic projections, in media helped as well. Will & Grace had a gay main character (yes the still had to have a flamboyant characture but they balanced it with a flamboyant straight character) and it made money. Huge ratings- that showed that industry that they could have a character who is gay but just gay. Not ONLY gay. I think that played a big role in opening more representations on TV especially.


This article speaks of how they didn't get their message out in a soft sell way. The problem here is that vitriol is all they have. Rage, belligerence, black/white division, etc. that doesn't carry well when the whole point is about finding companionship and love just like everyone else.



This part is pure BS and denial:





“Until the courts put a stop to it, public debate over same-sex marriage displayed American democracy at its best ... But the Court ends this debate.”

They used this issue to draw their voters to the polls and get their candidates elected. It worked but it was a Pyrrhic victory. Yes it got local and state legislatures flipped to them (gerrymandering) but this was no DEMOCRACY it was manipulation.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:11 PM

6. Dennis prager is so unhappy. he is calling the end of civilization over the marriage ruling

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 03:43 PM

8. Conservatives picked a fight they thought they could win

And they were wrong. Because the stakes were so wildly out of proportion between the two contending sides. Conservatives were in the fight for the feeling of superiority and a chance to push around a powerless minority. The Gay Community was fighting for its existence.

Early on, way back in the 1990s, Conservatives were picking off easy victories. The Gay Community was inchoate, and wasn't even sure this was a fight worth having. The Community spent some time wondering if same sex marriage was a desirable goal: Was it too much like the straight community? Did it sacrifice some of the unique "stuff" that made being queer worth it? Meanwhile, Conservatives kept up the pressure until it became apparent that this wasn't just about marriage, but about legitimacy in society, and sharing in a recognizable right and privilege. Basic Rights Oregon used to have a little flyer enumerating 100 or so privileges that were automatically conferred on a couple when they got married. Rights, privileges, social acceptance and tangible benefits were all recognized as being at play.

As the 1990s turned into the 2000s, Conservatives sought to press the advantages they had won, but by that time, the Community was energized, engaged, and ready to respond. There were advances and setbacks, but the advances were permanent and the setbacks were temporary and getting smaller. As Dan Savage noted, "This fight isn't over until we say it's over, and we say it's not over until we win." Conservatives didn't have an answer for that. The two sides weren't fighting for the same prize, and more and more people either fell away or actively defected from the Conservative side. Conservatives tried to rally, but they no longer had the numerical advantage, and soon enough they didn't have the legal advantage.

After Proposition 8 passed in California in 2008, Conservatives had to defend their ballot victory in a court of law. It was here that their fatuous arguments finally dissolved, unable to achieve coherence even internally. The Community had sharpened its arguments to a fine point, and couched the argument in favor of marriage equality in the language of the 14th Amendment, equal protection under the law and due process under the 5th Amendment. The one-two punch proved lethal, and Proposition 8 could not withstand judicial review in California.

Conservatives played it out to the bitter end. The unfocused dissents to Obergefell showed just how incoherent the Conservative argument against marriage equality has become. It seems now that where two or more conservatives are gathered, there shall be at least three opinions. Their internal inconsistencies have at last collapsed the opposition and they will not be able to coalesce again.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 04:27 PM

9. They'll turn it into a win somehow.

The latest is that due to the reasoning and wording of the equal marriage decision they are making the argument that the ruling also applies to conceal carry permits. All states may have to recognize one states permits.

I imagine it'll be worded as some kind of goof up by Dems.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 04:36 PM

10. Fuck them and they donkey they rode in on

If their best defense of their bigoted views is citing a centuries old book that condones selling your children into slavery, they have no sense of morality.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 07:19 PM

11. I think more gay folk coming out of the closet did it

it's much harder to demonize homosexuality when you know gay folk you like and respect

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jun 30, 2015, 11:37 PM

12. False consensus effect strikes again...

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 1, 2015, 12:35 AM

13. beating a dead horse until there's not a bone left means eventually everyone will stop caring

and predicting that the heavens would rend every 5 months for 30 years just wears people out

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