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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat ever happened to DU's H2O Man?
[A] Strength vs. Power: What is Behind Them
National Geographic: What is the greatest power?
Tadodaho Leon Shenandoah: I myself have no power. Its the people behind me who have the power. Real power comes from the Creator. Its in His hands. But if youre asking about strength, not power, than I can say that the greatest strength is gentleness.
Sometimes when I read a number of OP/threads on DU:GD, I imagine this forum as a model of the human brain. Various forum members make contributions that I apply to various sections of that brain, including from the most evolved layers that distinguish our species from all of our relatives on earth. Others contribute thoughts or feelings that I attribute to the various other sections, right down to the bulb of our brains stem.
When that joyous season we call the presidential primaries come around, it is if they waking brain and the sleeping brain (highly technical terms, I know) are both turned on and highly active, both simultaneously and at the same time (one descriptive term for each level). The tensions between the two are charged by the various electrical impulses that energize the forum/brain.
Often, one section of the community will say, But DU does not represent the United States electorate. I say, Thank goodness! Could you imagine if we were condemned to spend time inside a republican party brain? Yikes! Far more pleasurable to be here.
Even in this DU brain, we note that some segments, or sub-systems, are convinced that they are the real form of high consciousness, and thus attempt to silence what they view as annoying thoughts that keep popping up. Thus, we see that a lot of the primary debates tend to be less about the individual candidate, and more about the individual(s) behind them. And thats good, for we should know who supports what candidate, and why.
In fact, when we are deciding upon who will be president, we should consider who is behind their campaigns, and why.
Respect
Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman: Its hard for people from one culture to really understand another. Theres a site in West Virginia, where I have been asked to rebury 664 remains. But they are held in an Ohio museum. The people in Ohio asked me why I want to rebury people in West Virginia. And here I was wondering why they want to dig them up?
Im not sure everything can be explained. Some things you either understand, or you just dont. Maybe the goal should be to teach respect for other people, even if you dont fully understand them.
When I read something on DU:GD, no matter if I agree or disagree with it, I tend to try to assign it to some reference point -- or, file -- in my brain. Frequently, Im able to do that with some degree of accuracy. I know some people here, and am familiar enough with certain topics, that I am comfortable in doing that. I assume that I know what they are really saying. The problem in doing that -- both here and in real life -- is that sometimes Im wrong. Thats part of being human, of course; the only people who honestly believe they approach every person and topic with a completely open mind are those incapable of being fully honest with themselves.
No matter if I am fully correct, totally incorrect, or somewhere in that wide range found in between, I have the constant option of having respect for the other person
.if not his or her opinion or actions. That, of course, can be difficult. Sometimes, very difficult -- for example, there are some issues that I think are really clear-cut, and that strike an emotional reaction. Usually, these are issues in which a persons opinion is closely related to actions that cause some type of injury to others. These can range from people who attempt to justify violence -- from adults who hit kids, to those who advocate war -- to those who seek financial profit from engaging in the destruction of the living environment. Fracking, for example, poisons the water that sustains life on earth.
Yet there are many areas where disagreements are not so clearly defined, where there is not only one correct answer, or where there really isnt a wrong answer. Thus, because other forum members have had different life-experiences than me, they are going to process some of the same information as me in a very different way. They have different files or reference points built into their gray matter. We all do, and thats a good thing.
Recently, while discussing an area where I have disagreement -- strong disagreement -- with a small group of people who live in my area, my younger son reminded me of something. He said that I have to remember that most people did not grow up with mentors such as Leon Shenandoah, Paul Waterman, or Rubin Carter. Much less all three. So the chances of them viewing the issues in the same way, were rather small. And that even if I was convinced that I was 100% correct, I needed to listen closely to those other people. That I might even learn something.
Peace,
H2O Man
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Real wisdom should always be followed as a guide.
I think that we were each responding to each other's OP at the same time!
mmonk
(52,589 posts)H2O Man
(73,528 posts)people say .....and I think they're sincere! (grin)
kentuck
(111,076 posts)"I'll have what he's having."
FRACKING MUST STOP !!
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)In my opinion, you are --based upon your contributions on DU:GD -- of the part of our community's brain that creates logical insights, based upon rational thought. I always enjoy reading the things you post on DU ....and absolutely appreciate when you add your thoughts to one of my posts.
kentuck
(111,076 posts)H2O Man
(73,528 posts)Thanks for asking. And how are things your way?
(I have been involved in a few communities' events in a manner which, already today, has resulted in two friends calling to say that they are upset by some peoples' (verbal) attacks on me. I understand why they are upset. But I assure them that I don't feel that stick. I'm comfortable in doing that which I am convinced is right.)
NRaleighLiberal
(60,013 posts)H2O Man
(73,528 posts)It's a strange time in social-political life in our nation. But we can keep DU:GD at a calmer, more open to disagreement place. And your contributions to just that are appreciated!
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)One is to see just the reflection; The sun or other light shining on the surface.
The other is to look into. To look into one must get around the reflection. And when one does, the realization that there is life in that water, indeed, a whole 'nother world that lives in water, often comes as a great surprise.
Given our bodies are made up mostly of water, are we not looking at a water body when we look at each other?
I'd write more but I have to go pee. <grin>
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)I love it!
The symbolism of a pond (lake, ocean, etc) is fantastic. And surely, insightful people throughout time have used it this way, to illustrate the various levels of human consciousness.
I'm really happy that you posted this on this OP/thread. It is certainly the stuff of an outstanding OP. (I'll be looking for it!)
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Keep on fighting that Good Fight, my Good Friend!
randome
(34,845 posts)Oh. Wait. That's not...I didn't...never mind.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)kentuck
(111,076 posts)Through the chaos and confusion, his memory lingers still...
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)"Time wounds all heels." I think he meant Nixon and Cheney.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)I did get a call from my normal brother on Sunday; he said that I need to hurry up and meet him over there. He is finding the Old Sod transformational.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)When they had no reason to defend a politician, their team, would they look more closely at the issue?
I believe a few of the FFs warned against political parties accurately predicting what would happen once they were established, which happened pretty quickly airc.
Imagine a country where a politician did not have a party machine with all its trappings, pundits, advisers, political 'experts' testing the 'waters' to see what would 'sell' in an election?
My observations, and I was once very much part of it, are that many people will ignore the consequences of decisions being made if the politician and/or party they support are making them.
Great observations, as usual, H20 Man.
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)Very good. And exactly on target.
Sometimes, when enough people think in a good way, and are thus influenced to act in that way, it can move mountains. I think that your post, like Lennon's song "Imagine," is about the benefit to human-kind, in moving in that direction.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,831 posts)calimary
(81,192 posts)H2O Man
(73,528 posts)all of us on DU:GD are stuck with that crusty old character, H2O Man. Such a mean old man. But his sister calimary can always be counted upon to bring rational, up-beat contributions to his forum.
calimary
(81,192 posts)Hugs, bro!
Here. Have some birdies!
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H2O Man
(73,528 posts)H2O Man
(73,528 posts)If I had seen that posted on here before I wrote & posted my OP, I wouldn't have had to write and post it. I already would have.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Great responsibility
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)gentleness." Truer words were never spoken.
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)an amazing human being. It was funny: in his later years, he liked to work as a grounds-keeper at Syracuse University. I know this is speculation on my part, but I don't think that many people there knew who that old fellow working with the plants on the campus's lawn really was. But, those who did, counted themselves lucky.
There's a great book that I know you would appreciate, "To Become a Human Being: The Message of Tadodaho Chief Leon Shenandoah."
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)TL;DR
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)The lack of mentors with wisdom.
In this time our only wise men appear in TV screen or on a stage as an image or a show. There is nothing real about it...and the wisdom is questionable.
Your response got me thinking .....the last time that I can recall a serious televised series on people with wisdom to offer was a series by Bill Moyers, that I believe was called "A World of Ideas." For Moyers had learned of what is known as the Power of Ideas.
My favorite interview, not surprisingly, was with Leon and Paul's nephew, Chief Oren Lyons, a Faith-Keeper at Onondaga. I remember how impressed Mr. Moyers was that the collective wisdom of the Iroquois was an unbroken chain, that went far, far into humankind's past. And that it offered nourishment for hungry minds today -- for, as Oren says, great truths are constant.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)It may have been a time when I did not have TV...but Bill Moyer is a rare intellect on TV.
But I looked it up. it is on you tube and so is chief Chief Oren Lyons...now I have something new to watch.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)H2O Man
(73,528 posts)annabanana
(52,791 posts)did not fall far from the tree....
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)Even at his young age, I have more regard for his insight and advice on social-political issues, than for that of those I've worked with for longer than he's been alive. Obviously, I've had some influence on him, but not only did he grow up knowing the three gentlemen he mentioned, but he's had formal (and informal) educational opportunities very different from my own. I learn a lot from him!
byronius
(7,392 posts)And may nothing ever happen to you that is not Good.
Wait -- on edit -- nothing bad happened to H2OMan, right?
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)(The "title" to this essay was a tongue-in-cheek commentary on some of the negative undercurrents on the forum. Likely one of those sad attempts at humor that is only a giggle for me. But I'm fine. Enjoying life.)
malthaussen
(17,184 posts)-- Mal
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)Thank you!
malthaussen
(17,184 posts)... well, that's not accurate, I'm not puzzled by it at all, it comes from ignorance (if we are being generous) or the simple desire to put others down (if we are being realistic). But logically, I'm puzzled how anyone can justify telling someone they are not experiencing/have not experienced what they say they have. How do I become the authority on your life?
-- Mal
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)seveneyes
(4,631 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)I listen to you and appreciate your thoughts. Sometimes I learn something. Sometimes it's nice knowing there are good hearted people out there. I appreciate reading from all here who have compassion toward the earth and other beings on our often whacky planet.
kickysnana
(3,908 posts)Some notably murdered. We are living in "interesting times".
The total control of the media, the rise of anti-democratic politics in communities, Churches, schools and workplace have made living in America a nightmare for far more than the dream promised by our Bill of Rights and Constitution.