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Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
Tue May 15, 2012, 03:22 AM May 2012

Former Mormon Explains Why Mitt Romney Should Never Be President

Romney:

The first thing you need to know about Mitt Romney is that he is a Mormon, aka a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They call themselves Christians, but they have so thoroughly brainwashed their members that anything the church says…goes. No matter how much Mitt Romney says he would keep his church separate from Government, and how he would never let the church come in and run Government, commands of the church come first and foremost in Mormon minds.

If the church wanted Mitt to let them come in (AND THEY WOULD) and help or direct the Government, that is how it would be. Why? Because the church leaders would supposedly have a “vision” that it is God’s will. The church is all about trying to prop up the image of its founder, Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith had a supposed vision (prophecy) that one day a Mormon would become President of the United States, FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE, of letting the Mormon Church take over the U.S. Government. You can take it to the bank, that if Romney were President, the church leaders would have another “vision,” that a church takeover must happen. By the way, that prophecy was simple revenge for perceived wrongs done to Joseph Smith by the government. Nevertheless they treat all his prophecies seriously, no matter how ridiculous they are.



SNIP......


Romney wants to be President to fulfill a cult prophecy. When Mitt Romney received his patriarchal blessing as a Michigan teenager, he was told that the Lord expected great things from him. All young Mormon men — the “worthy males” of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as it is officially known — receive such a blessing as they embark on their requisite journeys as religious missionaries. But at 19 years of age, the youngest son of the most prominent Mormon in American politics — a seventh-generation direct descendant of one of the faith’s founding 12 apostles—Mitt Romney had been singled out as a destined leader. The Cougar Club — the all male, all white social club at Brigham Young University in Salt Lake City (blacks were excluded from full membership in the Mormon church until 1978) — was humming with talk that its president, Mitt Romney, would become the first Mormon President of the United States. “If not Mitt, then who?” was the ubiquitous slogan within the elite organization. The pious world of BYU was expected to spawn the man who would lead the Mormons into the White House and fulfill the prophecies of the church’s founder, Joseph Smith Jr., which Romney has avidly sought to realize.
Economic goals according to Romney’s own book, “Believe in America” Mitt Romney’s Plan for Jobs and Economic Growth © 2011

Wants to provoke China into war by labeling the Chinese government as criminals in the world court. Never mind that they own most of our money, they have nuclear capabilities and over a million soldiers. I’m sorry, but we wouldn’t stand a chance.
Wants to privatize Social Security and Medicare. They say Obamacare would create death panels, but that’s nothing compared to what it would be if Wall Street controlled medical benefits. And with how well Wall Street has proven that they can screw up even a wet dream, do you really want them deciding how much your Social Security checks should be? I don’t think so. Romney would privatize his next meal if he could.
General plans (from stuff he has said lately)

Wants to cut education funding and oversight.
As a vulture capitalist, Mitt Romney cost thousands of employees their jobs and their retirement pensions, while he made out like a bandit. If elected president, Romney will kill Medicare and Social Security and further subjugate women’s rights, while destroying the EPA and other government services.

Romney avoids mentioning it, but Joseph Smith ran for president in 1844 as an independent Commander in Chief of an “army of God” advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government in favor of a Mormon-ruled theocracy. Challenging Democrat, James Polk and Whig, Henry Clay – Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.” Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church. Smith’s insertion of religion into politics and his call for a “theodemocracy where God and people hold the power to conduct the affairs of men in righteous matters” created a sensation and drew hostility from the outside world. But his candidacy was cut short when he was shot to death by an anti-Mormon vigilante mob. Out of Smith’s national political ambitions grew what would become known in Mormon circles as the “White Horse Prophecy” — a belief ingrained in Mormon culture and passed down through generations by church leaders that the day would come when the U.S. Constitution would “hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber” and the Mormon priesthood would save it. Mitt Romney views the American presidency as a theological office.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/13/former-mormon-explains-why-mitt-romney-should-never-be-president/

Former Mormon Explains Why Mitt Romney Should Never Be President (Original Post) Ichingcarpenter May 2012 OP
I do believe he should be asked about this particular teaching and Skidmore May 2012 #1
Be it Mormons or a Benny Hinn , Pat Robertson, or other evangelists Ichingcarpenter May 2012 #2
Amen. Skidmore May 2012 #3
This practice of the Mormon Church is greatly disrespectful. Dawson Leery May 2012 #41
OMG. The bringing the Kingdom of God by force crowd. Like fundies wanting to nuke the ME. freshwest May 2012 #46
It would be pointless HeiressofBickworth May 2012 #5
d. Romney is a danger to our nation. Great Caesars Ghost May 2012 #6
he sure a hell is liberalnationalist May 2012 #47
Particularly because of this Icicle May 2012 #15
It sure would be great if somehow all of the evangenitals could read your post. nt left on green only May 2012 #4
Kennedy 1960 Ex-Pat Pats Fan May 2012 #7
Catholic churches are not shrouded in secrecy and cprise May 2012 #35
+1 Dawson Leery May 2012 #40
Big difference Major Nikon May 2012 #42
absolutely correct liberalnationalist May 2012 #50
I tend to be very skeptical of conspiracy theories, but I tend to agree with your assessment Major Nikon May 2012 #61
Sorry, even if I bought that about LDS, I don't believe Romney sincerely believes that (or anything) Recursion May 2012 #8
Yes, but in this case he really would be fulfilling a Morman prophecy CanonRay May 2012 #23
Sorry, I've been both Catholic AND Mormon (yeah, I know)... arbusto_baboso May 2012 #32
I don't worry about this. It seems to me that Mitt believes only in Mitt cali May 2012 #9
No, no ... he has one other belief: MONEY. Mitt believes in MONEY. Bake May 2012 #55
Just wondering out loud.... James48 May 2012 #10
James48 Diclotican May 2012 #11
Mormons for Obama struggle4progress May 2012 #30
Excellent post malaise May 2012 #12
I think it's worth exploring. Instead of Ilsa May 2012 #13
Mitt Romney was a Bishop in his church ... Kerry and Kennedy were not Ichingcarpenter May 2012 #20
Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands geckosfeet May 2012 #14
I can't seem to just walk away from this thread: It truly troubles me. cali May 2012 #16
Have you read much about the Mormon religion? JNelson6563 May 2012 #17
A fair amount cali May 2012 #18
Interesting. Thanks for your answer. JNelson6563 May 2012 #24
Interesting! Wind Dancer May 2012 #54
"as bigoted as anything I've ever seen here" daaron May 2012 #26
yes, it's bigoted cali May 2012 #29
Nah. Ima pass. Enjoy. nt daaron May 2012 #31
I remember going to a memebers house for some discussion Sheepshank May 2012 #53
I don't see it as bigotry Major Nikon May 2012 #43
You don't seem to understand religious cult brainwashing siligut May 2012 #56
Mitt has visions of his own, and they are radical, wild, visions of ruining the safety nets. Major Hogwash May 2012 #19
Your last sentence is the crux of why religious fundamentalists of any stripe want to eviscerate MH1 May 2012 #21
I had neighbors for years who were Mormons. cr8tvlde May 2012 #38
One of my former bosses for three years home schooled his children and never once did we his jwirr May 2012 #58
I had a good friend who is dead now madokie May 2012 #22
Not to worry TlalocW May 2012 #25
Has the church tried to influence Harry Reid, as Senate Majority Leader, yet? sadbear May 2012 #27
It depends on what you consider the "church" Major Nikon May 2012 #45
K & fookin' R AzDar May 2012 #28
Sounds quite similar to Kennedy rhetoric Bertha Venation May 2012 #33
And Kennedy famously reassured everyone that he was independent from the Vatican lolly May 2012 #39
K & R Scurrilous May 2012 #34
i don't get it....if the goal is to "take over the government and let Laura PourMeADrink May 2012 #36
What separates ohheckyeah May 2012 #37
Not much, really Major Nikon May 2012 #44
I've been in churches ohheckyeah May 2012 #57
Essentially that's what almost all organized religions do Major Nikon May 2012 #60
IMO just size treestar May 2012 #49
They need a lot more than the Presidency if they want to "take over the US government." treestar May 2012 #48
The person who first told me about this prophecy said that this would all happen after the govern- jwirr May 2012 #59
But then they want their follower Rmoney to be President of it treestar May 2012 #62
This needs to be posted on every single RW site. Sheepshank May 2012 #51
So should we also try to remove Harry Reid from the Senate? (nt) Nye Bevan May 2012 #52

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
1. I do believe he should be asked about this particular teaching and
Tue May 15, 2012, 03:39 AM
May 2012

what it means to him. I'm deeply skeptical of people who claim strong religious basis for their actions. Period. We went through this sort of thing with Bush and look where it got us. I have no use for religious zealots in a seat of power, particularly for a nation made up of peoples of diverse backgrounds. We do not need a theocracy or someone with a messianic complex.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
2. Be it Mormons or a Benny Hinn , Pat Robertson, or other evangelists
Tue May 15, 2012, 03:48 AM
May 2012

They have an END GAME... be it bringing back Jesus through action in Israel or in the case of the mormons, making their religion 'the religion' even if you are dead.


It matters.

Dawson Leery

(19,346 posts)
41. This practice of the Mormon Church is greatly disrespectful.
Wed May 16, 2012, 12:24 AM
May 2012

What right does the LDS have to make claims that non-Mormons belong to their church?

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
46. OMG. The bringing the Kingdom of God by force crowd. Like fundies wanting to nuke the ME.
Wed May 16, 2012, 05:30 PM
May 2012

To bring on the Second Coming and destroy all of those who don't believe like they do. The lick their lips over every act environmental devastation and the ecosystem as proving their Tribulation prophecies.

They'll kill us all and that's why they are so money hungry so they think they'll have an advantage and survive. They'd leave the Earth in cinders just to have it their way. Very disturbing that they've managed to get so much power now.

HeiressofBickworth

(2,682 posts)
5. It would be pointless
Tue May 15, 2012, 04:01 AM
May 2012

to ask Romney such a question for 2 reasons:
1. Romney is unable to state a definitive position on any subject and stick to it.
2. Lying for the Lord. He has permission from the church elders to tell whatever lies he needs to in order to get elected and fulfill prophecy.

My conclusions:
a. He can't be trusted at any time for any reason
b. One must be able to trust a President, at least most of the time
c. Romney is not qualified nor does he deserve the position of President of the United States.

 

liberalnationalist

(170 posts)
47. he sure a hell is
Thu May 17, 2012, 10:24 AM
May 2012

the more I research the Roman ooops Morman religion the scarier it gets....Mormans are evangelicals on a huge injection of steroids....anyone who votes for Raw Money needs to be put in a mental institution.

WE SHOULD USE RAW MONEY'S RELIGION AGAINST HIM!

Icicle

(121 posts)
15. Particularly because of this
Tue May 15, 2012, 06:03 AM
May 2012

He's got a bunch of NeoCons advising him, presumably they will be part of his administration if he's elected. I see a repeat of "the sort of thing we went through with Bush."

[quote]There is John Lehman, the Secretary of the Navy in the Reagan administration, who sources say is a lead actor in the
Romney cast. Then there are Michael Chertoff and Michael Hayden, the Homeland Security secretary and CIA director who
both served under President George W. Bush. Two former GOP senators, Norm Coleman of Minnesota and Jim Talent of Missouri,
also are on Romney's team.

The supporting cast is also composed of Washington's security and foreign policy veterans: Eric Edleman and Dov Zakheim,
who held high-level Pentagon posts under the younger Bush. Zakheim's son, Roger, a senior staffer on the House Armed
Services Committee, is also assisting Romney, along with Dan Senor and Megan O'Sullivan, who emerged as major players
during the Iraq war.

Gordon Adams, who oversaw national security budgeting for the Clinton administration, says when Romney's security advisers
speak, "they have nothing to say." Adams, who is not involved in Obama's re-election campaign, questions Romney and his
advisers' repeated comments about Russia and building move Navy ships in a time of tight budgets.

"This is the 'B-Team' of Republicans," Adams says. "And the 'B-Team' brought us Iraq, so I'm not sure they deserve to come
back into office."


http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/04/27/romneys-foreign-policy-players-draw-from-elder-bushs-bench
[/quote]

cprise

(8,445 posts)
35. Catholic churches are not shrouded in secrecy and
Tue May 15, 2012, 09:23 PM
May 2012

they are basically open to the public. It also does not have a founding prophecy that it will one day take over the US government.

There is the matter of allegiance, though (which is also an issue with Mormonism). And that may be what motivated Kennedy's assassins.

Major Nikon

(36,745 posts)
42. Big difference
Wed May 16, 2012, 02:30 AM
May 2012

Kennedy wasn't a dogmatic Catholic. Like Kennedy himself said, he was the Democratic Party candidate for the Presidency who happens to be Catholic. Not the other way around. Nobody could legitimately accuse Kennedy of being beholden to his religious leaders. You can't say the same thing about Romney.

Major Nikon

(36,745 posts)
61. I tend to be very skeptical of conspiracy theories, but I tend to agree with your assessment
Thu May 17, 2012, 02:51 PM
May 2012

If the Mormon church did have the intention of grooming and installing their own candidate for office, they couldn't pick a better person than Romney. His dad's fortunes were made as a direct result of his Mormon associations. Romney owes his a debt of gratitude to the Mormon church for his fortunes as well and he has shown conclusively that he has been the ideal faithful servant to them. He served their church as a missionary in his youth, he served the church as a bishop as a young adult, and he has tied a significant portion of his income back to the church for decades. In short, he has always done exactly what the church wanted. So considering Romney would be the perfect candidate for such a task, you then have to ask if the Mormon church is motivated to do such a thing and I'm not sure how someone could claim they aren't. They already control the entire state of Utah. It's not a stretch to think they would want to expand their influence.

For those who value freethinking, Romney is more dangerous than Bush, and that's pretty scary.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
8. Sorry, even if I bought that about LDS, I don't believe Romney sincerely believes that (or anything)
Tue May 15, 2012, 05:03 AM
May 2012

And, anyways, this is the same shit that people said about JFK (the pope will come and run everything, etc.)

CanonRay

(13,694 posts)
23. Yes, but in this case he really would be fulfilling a Morman prophecy
Tue May 15, 2012, 07:49 AM
May 2012

and in the case of the Catholics, no such prophecy existed, and two, the Catholic religion has it's head in a foreign country...the Mormons are nominally at least, in the U.S. I think this post is spot on.

arbusto_baboso

(7,162 posts)
32. Sorry, I've been both Catholic AND Mormon (yeah, I know)...
Tue May 15, 2012, 06:35 PM
May 2012

And your ignorance of how devoted most mormons (even the non-practicing ones) are to mormon theology is astounding.

This is not the same damn shit. Catholics don't present nearly the same danger to our democracy that mormons do.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
11. James48
Tue May 15, 2012, 05:40 AM
May 2012

James48

Im a mormon - and if i had the posibility to vote in a US election, I would have voted Obama ahead of Romney anyday... Obama just look, and sound like a more competent man..

Im not sure if that make me a part of "mormons for Obama" group - but at least I would have voted for the better candidate - who is Obama...

Diclotican

Ilsa

(61,575 posts)
13. I think it's worth exploring. Instead of
Tue May 15, 2012, 05:58 AM
May 2012

asking Mitt so we can be lied to, we need to look at Mitt's behavior for last 5-10 years. How is he still supportive of their fairy tales? He raised his kids Mormon; does that count? Where else is the proof of his devotion to this or any other Armageddon-ist group? What is the substance of his foreign policy? Will we all be eating out of mega-pantries we have prepped for a great depression?

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
20. Mitt Romney was a Bishop in his church ... Kerry and Kennedy were not
Tue May 15, 2012, 07:07 AM
May 2012

While Romney was building his career at Bain Capital, he was also a Mormon bishop (equivalent to a pastor) and a stake president (presiding over several area congregations) in suburban Belmont, Mass.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/mitt-romney-mormon-bishop_n_1386592.html



geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
14. Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands
Tue May 15, 2012, 06:01 AM
May 2012

that "they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them."

Hmmm,,, seems the extreme RW and teapartiers have pretty much seen to that.

The hammer blows keep coming, one right after the other. This is one of the most entertaining primary seasons I have ever seen. Hope there is more to come when the campaign proper goes live!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
16. I can't seem to just walk away from this thread: It truly troubles me.
Tue May 15, 2012, 06:11 AM
May 2012

I do think examining his faith and how it might effect his policy decisions is fair- to a point. This piece goes well beyond that point.

Let's parse:

The author clearly has a chip on his soldier the size of Utah.

He claims all Mormons are brainwashed: What bullshit. How does dear author explain Harry Reid and other dem politicians? I don't buy for one minute that Romney (who thinks awfully well of himself) would turn over power to the Mormon Church. This is a man who wants power for himself.

The author claims that Romney avoids mentioning that Joseph Smith ran for president; uh why the fuckity fuck should he mention it? Idiocy.

The author claims that:

The only other church I know of that elicits such obedience was The People’s Temple, and we all know what happened there, they drank the Kool-Aid. In other words, the Mormon religion is a cult of brainwashed souls.

Oh, so he's comparing Mormonism to The People's Temple? WHAT UTTER DOG SHIT. Bigoted dog shit, op.

In fact, that's the driving force behind this piece of bigoted crap: HATE AND BIGOTRY.

It shouldn't be posted here.

Period.

It's as bigoted as anything I've ever seen here.

JNelson6563

(28,151 posts)
24. Interesting. Thanks for your answer.
Tue May 15, 2012, 08:49 AM
May 2012

I believe there is a great deal of truth in this thread. Granted, little diplomacy is applied in the posts but if you look past that there is much of merit.

Julie

Wind Dancer

(3,618 posts)
54. Interesting!
Thu May 17, 2012, 11:18 AM
May 2012

If you read "Under the Banner of Heaven," I'm surprised you're not more concerned with Mitt's position within the church.

 

daaron

(763 posts)
26. "as bigoted as anything I've ever seen here"
Tue May 15, 2012, 08:55 AM
May 2012

Ah. They pull the old "bigot" card, here, too? Ima transplant from Randi.org and the very religious keep that knee-jerk handy there, as well, for use whenever irrational beliefs are questioned.

The fact of the matter is that the hierarchs of Churches have put their believers in this awkward position of defending the indefensible. By inserting the Church into politics at the institutional level, as with Prop. 8 in the Mormon case, or with contraception coverage in the Catholic case, the Churches themselves have provoked this genuine populist reaction against their religiously-based bigotry, bias, and privilege.

I have known many Jack Mormons (having grown up in a neighboring state), and the author of the OP's quote publicly expresses, none-too-eloquently, pretty much the same exasperated, resentful disrespect for their former religion that these others have, in private. More bluntly put, every Jack Mormon I've known left the Church feeling that they'd escaped from a cult in the nick of time, before they were truly lost.

Would you call an escapee from the Branch Davidians a bigot for publicly exposing the cult from which they had escaped? Would you call a mother of 14 who escaped from the Quiverful movement a bigot for exposing the abusive beliefs and practices of that cult? That's how Jack Mormons feel, and in fact it's bigoted to dismiss their direct life experience and claim that you're purely intellectual understanding is the proper one.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
29. yes, it's bigoted
Tue May 15, 2012, 09:25 AM
May 2012

and I have no problem questioning religion or pulling it logically to shreds. I do, dear, insist upon critical thinking.

Now how about YOU answer the queries I post. Then I'll be happy as pie to answer your questions- even if they don't exhibit much in the way of critical thinking, hon.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
53. I remember going to a memebers house for some discussion
Thu May 17, 2012, 10:57 AM
May 2012

It may have even been family Home Evening.

The discussion was about the "when a Prophet speaks". First was the discussion about the Prophet of the Mormon Chruch, speaking as a prophet vs. speaking as a man. Turns out, in not so many terms, that when a prophecy was mis-spoken (given enough time, the veracity of a statement become apparent), the Prophet was actually speaking as a "man" and not as the mouthpiece of God, a prophet. We never know which holy or temporal statement is spewing forth, so to be on the safe side the rule of thumb is "when the Prophet has spoken, all discussion has ended".

Major Nikon

(36,745 posts)
43. I don't see it as bigotry
Wed May 16, 2012, 03:51 AM
May 2012

The author doesn't claim that all Mormons are brainwashed. Here is the claim:

They call themselves Christians, but they have so thoroughly brainwashed their members that anything the church says…goes. No matter how much Mitt Romney says he would keep his church separate from Government, and how he would never let the church come in and run Government, commands of the church come first and foremost in Mormon minds.


What the author is saying is that enough Mormons are brainwashed into mindlessly following the church leadership. There is plenty of evidence of this even outside what the author claims. The author is not claiming that every single Mormon is a zombie.

The author is not making an issue out of the fact that Romney doesn't talk about Joseph Smith. He's including facts about Mormon history because it's important to understand Mormonism if you want to understand Romney as the two are inseparably linked. Utah was founded as a theocracy, and it still is today. The suggestion that the LDS church would like to expand that authority beyond Utah's borders is not without merit.

Calling Mormonism a dangerous cult is not bigotry. You may not agree that Mormonism is a cult, but it's pretty hard to deny the evidence that suggests it is. 1) Mormons aren't any more Christians than Jews or Muslims, and they are more cult-like than any of those religions. Christianity is not dominated by any one source of leadership. If a Catholic is unhappy with Catholic leadership, they are quite free to become a Baptist. If a Baptist is not happy with Baptist leadership, they are free to become a Methodist, and so on. Judaism is not dominated by any one source of leadership and the same can be said for Islam. You can't say that about Mormonism or at least the LDS version of Mormonism which is by far the most predominate. 2) 90% of Mormons tithe. Even if you compare this to the hardest core Christians you can find, there is no comparison. Nowhere in Christianity will you find anything like this. Now certainly it is possible that 90% of Mormons are just so happy with their religion that they freely and willingly tie a certain (significant) percentage of their income back to the church, but I think a more logical interpretation of this is that Mormonism demands an extreme level of commitment which is most decidedly cult-like. 3) Mormons are obsessed with bringing in new members. By the LDS's own admission, they have over 50,000 missionaries at any one time. At first this may not seem like a whole lot. The Catholic church alone has easily twice that many at any one time. However, the Catholic church has over 1 billion members compared to about 14 million Mormons. So the Catholic church is 71 times larger than the LDS church, yet has only twice as many missionaries. Kinda makes you go hmmmmmm. Outside of cults, no other religion I know of is so obsessed with bringing in new members. 4) The LDS church preaches "Salvation through Works". This by itself is not necessarily indicative of a cult. Lots of different religions and denominations of various religions preach this. However, when you look at the expectations of this service which is indoctrinated into the Mormon faith, you can't help but draw comparisons to cults.

siligut

(12,272 posts)
56. You don't seem to understand religious cult brainwashing
Thu May 17, 2012, 12:19 PM
May 2012

I understand it can be difficult for a nonreligious person to understand the effect cult religions can have on ones ability to think. I saw the full effect while living in Utah, it was unbelievable to me too, but I saw and experienced it for myself. And, the brainwashed have no idea that they have been, they believe that the rest of the country are the ones who can't see the truth.

Is it bigotry to keep the fox out of the henhouse?

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
19. Mitt has visions of his own, and they are radical, wild, visions of ruining the safety nets.
Tue May 15, 2012, 07:04 AM
May 2012

Mitt wants to kill off Social Security -- he's already on record saying that.
He wants to reduce Medicaid -- he has said so before, many many times.
He wants to eliminate Medicare -- and he has bragged about that!

He wants to repeal the national healthcare plan that President Obama got passed into law in 2010.

Why?

So, poor people will have to beg at the doors of the Mormon church to get any food, any supplies, and anything else they need when the federal safety nets are torn down, that's why!!



MH1

(17,280 posts)
21. Your last sentence is the crux of why religious fundamentalists of any stripe want to eviscerate
Tue May 15, 2012, 07:09 AM
May 2012

the social safety net. They want people to be dependent on the church for helping with their basic needs, which gives the church leverage to exploit their spiritual needs.

And unfortunately, that common goal is why the majority of fundamentalists (who despise Mormonism as a cult) will fall into line at the voting booth and vote for Romney.

cr8tvlde

(1,185 posts)
38. I had neighbors for years who were Mormons.
Tue May 15, 2012, 10:09 PM
May 2012

Their family was intact, respectful, warm, healthy, close, excelled in school but they made it very clear in the neighborhood that they only interacted with Mormons. In 15 years, they never went in any neighbor's house that I know of, and I in theirs just in the hallway only once for some forgotten reason.

It was a difficult time in my life and I actually considered it...why? because they are an amazingly tight knit group that worked very hard, all the kids worked, and would literally take care of each other to the extent they do not much need social safety nets and such, even though I'm sure they got their SS checks.

It was impressive, however, they consider themselves Mormon before any other label...including American. And they believe that every one else should take care of themselves, as well. Does not bode well for democratic social values for the rest of the country.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
58. One of my former bosses for three years home schooled his children and never once did we his
Thu May 17, 2012, 02:25 PM
May 2012

workers get to meet either the children or his wife. He deliberately kept them islolated. He was fired because he actually had two wives. I wonder how much of the isolation was to keep the two wives secret?

madokie

(51,076 posts)
22. I had a good friend who is dead now
Tue May 15, 2012, 07:23 AM
May 2012

His family are mormon and I didn't realize that he was such a sorry ass person as they presented him to be at his funeral. He was like me at the time a pot smoker and I suspect that is why so much hate on him. Actually George was a good dude in anyones book except his mormon family. All of his friend like me were blown away by what was said about him at his funeral.
When the mormons come to my door I kindly ask them to leave and when they hem and haw I simply say remove yourselves from my property. I'll have nothing to do with anything you say so be gone.
I'm an old man who can think for myself and was raised in the baptist church ways who at about the young age of 14 decided I no longer can believe any of that so that may cloud my thoughts today somewhat. I'm non-religious is how I consider myself.

TlalocW

(15,201 posts)
25. Not to worry
Tue May 15, 2012, 08:53 AM
May 2012

I have a pair of their Magic Underwear, and when put on by a non-believer, it makes them invincible. I'll turn back the Mormon tide if Mittens is elected.

Actually, I don't think he has much of a chance (not that we shouldn't be vigilant), but it would nice if science had some sort of device that let us view alternate timelines so we could look at a Mitt presidency and say, "See? I told you so!"

TlalocW

sadbear

(4,340 posts)
27. Has the church tried to influence Harry Reid, as Senate Majority Leader, yet?
Tue May 15, 2012, 08:56 AM
May 2012

Perhaps an argument can be made that yes, they have.

Major Nikon

(36,745 posts)
45. It depends on what you consider the "church"
Wed May 16, 2012, 01:02 PM
May 2012

I don't know if the primary church leadership itself has ever tried to influence Reid, but I do know that certain members of the church most certainly have. Many openly criticize his politics. To be fair, this is not that much different than Pelosi or Kerry and the Catholic church.

Bertha Venation

(21,484 posts)
33. Sounds quite similar to Kennedy rhetoric
Tue May 15, 2012, 09:17 PM
May 2012

when his opponents said Kennedy, Catholic, would have a hotline to the Vatican.

lolly

(3,248 posts)
39. And Kennedy famously reassured everyone that he was independent from the Vatican
Wed May 16, 2012, 12:07 AM
May 2012

When Romney gave his response to this concern, he hemmed and hawed and blabbed about how we should all follow our consciences, etc.

IOW--he would NOT state outright that he would put the U.S. Constitution over his religion.

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,437 posts)
36. i don't get it....if the goal is to "take over the government and let
Tue May 15, 2012, 09:36 PM
May 2012

God and the church run it," what kind of god would want to cut the programs
that help the least among us? How can Romney's vulture ways be consistent
with any religion?

Major Nikon

(36,745 posts)
44. Not much, really
Wed May 16, 2012, 04:20 AM
May 2012

The whole idea of what makes a cult a cult and more specifically what drives anti-cult movements was really borne out of Christians who wanted to stamp out what they saw as heresy.

If you look at how they define a cult, you really find the same elements in most religions to one degree or another. However, there is no denying that some cults are most certainly dangerous and there are plenty of examples of this. I think it's much more important to figure out if the LDS flavor of Mormonism is a dangerous cult. I believe it is. The state of Utah was founded as a theocracy and still is. As far as I'm concerned, this is about as dangerous as it gets.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
57. I've been in churches
Thu May 17, 2012, 01:04 PM
May 2012

that I thought were on the edge of cult and they were "mainstream" churches. To me, when any church tries to take away a person's right to make decisions for themselves it's dangerous and cultish.

Major Nikon

(36,745 posts)
60. Essentially that's what almost all organized religions do
Thu May 17, 2012, 02:40 PM
May 2012

The whole point of having organized religion is to tell people what to believe. When you get into the business of telling people what to believe, you are essentially denying them the opportunity to decide for themselves what they should believe or even whether they should believe at all. When leaders of the church start pretending not only know that there is a god, but what that god wants them to do, you get into a very dangerous situation. If a church leader tells you what to do, how to act, how to think, etc., and they pretend to speak for god, to what higher power can you appeal if you don't want to do it or you disagree?

treestar

(82,354 posts)
49. IMO just size
Thu May 17, 2012, 10:29 AM
May 2012

The Mormons are past being a cult. The line exists somewhere, and we know it when we see it.

treestar

(82,354 posts)
48. They need a lot more than the Presidency if they want to "take over the US government."
Thu May 17, 2012, 10:28 AM
May 2012

Then there is the pesky First Amendment. And the fact that the vast majority are not Mormons and thus would not support or put up with it. If they are that stupid, in the unlikely event Mittens wins, it will be interesting to observe their consternation that it is not going to be that easy.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
59. The person who first told me about this prophecy said that this would all happen after the govern-
Thu May 17, 2012, 02:35 PM
May 2012

ment collapsed. In other words there would be no one to enforce the constitution. And from history we know that this can definitely happen.

treestar

(82,354 posts)
62. But then they want their follower Rmoney to be President of it
Thu May 17, 2012, 05:49 PM
May 2012

So do they think they can then make it collapse? Well, this is a religion. Maybe they really believe that in spite of being a very small minority, they can "take over" the U.S.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
51. This needs to be posted on every single RW site.
Thu May 17, 2012, 10:42 AM
May 2012

For those RW Evangelicals, that would hold their nose and pick Romney over Obama, it certanly would give them pause. Which one really is the lesser of the two evils?

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