Will "real" liberals sit on their hands if Hillary wins the nomination?

it's most surely a relevant topic for discussion.

Anybody who can do that is naive and immature and isn't really thinking ahead that much.

That kind of talk really gives me the chills. The perspective I have is that I started the fight for all sorts of rights in the 60's-70's and see them being completely obliterated after years of chipping away...women's repro, black voting, etc.

So to be mocked over concerns over the Court is really upsetting to me...

Reminds me of how Obama told an editorial board that "Vietnam didn't apply to today" (paraphrased) in the same chat where he said admired Reagan for his leadership....That turned me off then, because it showed a lack of perspective. So, we now see guerilla groups like ISIS running rampant...and taking down huge swathes of territory...our operatives are out of Yemen now....Anybody see the PBS show about how we abandoned VietNam???

Basically, I think we do not have the luxury of tearing people apart now. None of our candidates are DEVILS...
Discuss, but don't trash. We need to be very strong very early or we will eat our own...

stupendously ignorant and short-sighted. Presidents will come and go, but SCOTUS decisions can haunt us for generations.

I hope it comes up more. I don't know if Sanders has spoken about this issue.

This election will NOT be an easy win...the economy could easily do a lot worse...in fact, it's not really doing that well now. I watch the markets closely and read a lot and things are worrisome.

A big turn in the economy the wrong way could play to the GOP's favor. I know that sounds ridiculous, but people have short memories as we saw in the midterms. They will vote the GOP bullshit every time if something seems to be going wrong with what the Dems are doing, even if the GOP has caused more problems and roadblocks to recovery than people seem to remember...The swiftboating of Kerry shows how they can bring things to the lowest level, as well.

I am extremely nervous about 2016!!!!

we would probably see near record lows for turn out. About the only way Bu$h the third can made it to the WH, although I'm not sure he can win the primary either.

wherein posters have stated an absolute unwillingness to vote for a certain Democrat under any circumstances.

Maybe you'll have different "impressions" after more than a couple of days here. At the very least, you'll learn it's rude to walk in and start demanding loyalty oaths

If I gave that impression I apologize because because I certainly wasn't trying to be rude. I was merely curious what the level of support would those who prefer other candidates would be for Hillary if their candidate didn't win. I think it is a legitimate question.

And, of course, that makes the question rather loaded.

I'm a "real liberal" and whoever gets the nomination will get my vote. I don't cave to demands, and I don't falsely accuse anyone of making them. That would be rude.

when you referred to people as "real" liberals. I especially appreciate the scare quotes.

that would result in a con being elected.

I cant accept that person as being a real liberal, sorry.

I guess it is possible that some folks who think they are real liberals, who havent experienced enough of life to know why there is a VAST difference between any con and any Dem, could be forgiven to some extent.

in something as serious as politics. We have to live the choices we make and in making those choices we not only have to live them but so do every one else.
No forgiveness when it comes to politics

But I don't live in a swing state, so don't worry.

" "

merely curious.

None of your frickin' business

You didn't have to read or respond to my post, but thanks much for your input.

You've already said that you will vote for Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee. So you've made that public. Why not say that to this new DUer? I don't get it.

Thanks for stopping by

myself I will be voting for Hillary.

Gee, I don't know, though, this sort of question has never come up before.
Have to ponder.

someone not supporting her thinks they are the real liberals.
I remember 2008 on this board well and I think I stayed out of the debates or pissing contests as I call them.
This time is different. It seems to me the Bernie bots have laid claim to the label progressive and liberal and one last week said they were "the people." Like people don't support Hillary?
I don't expect Bernie to make it to the general for a couple of reasons. When that happens this shit will have run it's course.

It's fun to pretend that there's no difference between Hillary and a Republican, but when there's an actual real-life Republican staring you in the face, that myth disappears pretty quickly.

The other thing is, when Bernie Sanders drops out he is going to endorse Hillary, which will also help getting his supporters on board.

I suggest that everyone get behind Bernie now so that conundrum is less likely to occur.

I will never vote Republican, and I will vote on the down ticket items. But that box will be left blank.

We'll see I guess. The only time the fringe left has held true to their threat of sabotaging the Dems was in 2000, but that was when Nader is actually on the ballot. I'm pretty confident the Nader/Kucinich/Sanders people will turn out for Hillary. Sure, some of them are truly blinded by irrational hatred, especially on DU, but DU is a tiny fraction of the voting public.

it doesn't come across as irrational hatred. In the end your vote is yours to exercise as you see fit.

He does stand for the status quo on a few important issues, for example gun control and wasteful military spending projects like the F-35, but overall I think he's a great candidate and a great person.

The only problem is that he can't win a national election. The stakes are too high to just wing it here. We need a Dem in the white house.

But it's your right vote as you please, or go not vote as you please.

I like Hillary and and Bernie, but come what may I will vote for the Democratic nominee - I couldn't live with myself if I didn't vote because my particular candidate doesn't win the nomination and I had to put up with another Bush, Cruse, Walker or some other Republican in the White House with a Republican controlled Congress for the next 4 years.

If you think your vote doesn't count, then you will be just like the rest of 50% of eligible voters who don't bother to go to the polls.

Too much anti-Hillary animosity at this point, but it will switch over. I recall 2008 too. There are a tiny minority still mad at Hillary over her Obama opposition. That's where their Bernie support comes from. As soon as they had a warm body they could claim to support, they were there.

But most Hillary supporters were supporting Obama by the convention. She gave her speech endorsing Obama. I specifically recall her saying she didn't do all that campaigning to end up with a Republican in the WH. I loved the way she contemptuously pronounced the word "Republican."

he will be quick to endorse Clinton, and enthusiastically. Like most people anywhere left of center, he recognizes the threat of a US where Republicans are in control of all three branches of government. There are some who probably not vote for Hillary Clinton if that happens, but they will be few and far between.

The Democratic Party and its members will vote, and they'll vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee. They're Democrats. Those who refuse to vote for the Democratic nominee are not Democrats. They're still important, but if they don't vote for Democrats, they're something else.

support candidates like Obama and Clinton. They lose young voters, women, and minorities when they lose.

Let me preface my remarks by saying I will not browbeat, cajole, beg, et cetera people to vote for the candidate of my choice but what's a true liberal?

Because she's

-pro choice
-pro glbtq rights
-pro immigration reform
-pro liveable wage
-pro health care for all independent of ability to pay
-pro paid leave
-pro robust safety net
-pro criminal justice reform


for starters


And her Republicant opponent will oppose all those things

The term 'DINO' goes both ways.

There is a lot to learn about Martin O'Malley, a real liberal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1281

I am enjoying learning more about O'Malley. I find him an exciting candidate with an excellent record of accomplishments. I have not committed to a candidate, and I would not at this point rule anyone out. We have a long way to go.

I especially appreciate that the O'Malley supporters I have run across have been very gracious; eager to share their knowledge without being pushy or going negative on other candidates. That is a breath of fresh air.

Thanks, elleng.

We do our best.

Here in MN, we are as reliably blue as the sky in presidential races. If that holds up, I will vote for Keith Ellison and local Dems but I will not be able to bring myself to vote for a warmongering corporatist. And it won't matter. My state's EV will go to the Democrat. So I have some luxury in that I will in all likelihood be able to vote my conscience without throwing my state to the Pukes.

Some people won't have that option and I don't envy their position if they are true liberals.

as a 18 yr. old I backed Kennedy in '80--voted for Carter
'84 worked for Gary Hart--voted for Mondale
'88 initially for Hart, then Jackson--voted for Dukakis
'92 Harkin, then Browne--voted for Clinton
'96 voted for Clinton
'00 voted for Nader (Va. was not in play then if it was I would have voted for Gore)
'04 worked for Dean--voted for Kerry
'08 supported Edwards (yeah I know)--voted for Obama
'12 voted for Obama

I'm used to my first choice not winning

have not decided who I'm backing this time yet but will vote for the Democratic nominee.

This is where you will find the strongest support.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1107

One of the reasons I started posting here was to get some feedback on my blog. I started it because I needed an outlet for some of the things I felt needed to be said, but after a while I din't know if anyone was "listening", or if they are were, whether they thought what I was writing was good, bad, or just plain baloney.

It is fantastic to get some feedback, especially appreciative feedback. Thanks much!

The article about W's second biggest mistake is excellent, and really details how little W and his cronies understood about the middle east and Iraq in particular. Now the same "thinking is in play about Iran.

Just because we have the military power to bring down any government in the world doesn't mean we should, but, if a Republican is elected to the presidency, I have no doubt America will be bombing Iran within 6 months.

and thanks for the feedback. Come back and visit sometime. If you register a user you can leave comments and I would love to get the feed back - positive or negative - on individual posts. I usually put a new post up every three to five days or so. I'm sure that some will be more interesting than others to you as I just write about whatever interests me at the time. Thanks again.

Others will come around late as they stare down the possibility of President Walker, President Cruz, President Rubio or President Bush.

In the end I expect that the vast majority will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee.

they would likely lose a lot more than any other group of voters.

If she wins the nomination then the base will turn out.

The problem is the swing voters who will be overloaded with negative ads about her. Will they turn out for her or be confused and decide to not vote at all? At the same time, those negative attacks will motivate the RW base. That is the real problem.

Didn't your mama teach you better?

but who are you to assume that I demanded one. I guess everyone interpenetrates what they read through the lens on their own perspectives, but please don't accuse me of something that I haven't done. In my humble opinion, nothing is more insulting.

It's so unfortunate his name is reminiscent of an infamous terrorist.

Thinly veiled flame bait. I'll vote for whomever I want, as is my right. Deal with it.

Liberal no longer has a specific meaning.

There are those that claim HRC is a 'liberal' just because she is supporting a few of the social issues dear to Democrats. In economic policies, she is a strict neo-liberal. And in foreign policies, she is a definite neo-con.

If we say that liberal means those who are actually on the left of the spectrum, then another issue arises.

Liberals are not just Democrats. There are liberal Greens. There are liberal libertarians. There are many liberal independents especially a growing group dissatisfied with the Democratic parties take-over by the Third Way New Dems.

I expect most, but not all, registered Democrats on this forum will vote for HRC if their candidate - O'Malley or Sanders - loses simply because they are loyal to the party.

But the problem that HRC supporters refuse to acknowledge is that we independents, Greens, and libertarians that post here because we are 'liberals' are not bound by party loyalty. Give us a real liberal. If the Democratic party puts forth a Republican lite candidate versus a Republican candidate, you will see many 'liberals' sit this election out or vote third party.

I am an independent. I am not bound by party loyalty. I am a progressive liberal. I will not vote for a New Dem. If HRC beats Sanders then I will either not vote or will vote my principles in a third party candidate. I and others like me are who the Democratic Party needs to think about. Sanders is already drawing us in with who he is and what he represents. Clinton is already pushing us away with who she is and what she represents.

If y'all really want a 'liberal' in the White House, be careful of who the Democratic Party actually selects as the general candidate.

being an aggregate score placing someone on the left of the center of the political spectrum, it is actually quite easy.

You look at three main areas of governance - social issues, economic issues, and foreign policy issues.

New Dems are not really liberals. They are slightly left of center on social issues. They are decidedly center right on economic ones. And they vary from center right (Obama) to further right (Clinton) on foreign policy issues.

Sanders, on the other hand, is a definite liberal. He has been on the left on social issues since his civil rights activism in the 1960's to his support for LGBT rights in the 1990's. He has been and continues to be on the left on economic issues, after all he is a Democratic Socialist who wants the US to be modeled after the democratic socialism of such European countries as Sweden and he wants a return to the FDR New Deal policies and regulations that were gutted under Reagan, Clinton, Bush, and Obama. And he is a leftist again on foreign policy issues. He voted against the IWR. He voted against surges. He voted against the Patriot Act. He believes in a two state solution and dislikes Netanyahu.

This is why he is appealing not only to the FDR and traditional liberal Democrats but also independents, libertarians, and Greens.

feet-on-the-ground activists. We never stay home. We may not vote the way some corporate-sponsored party demands we vote, but what we don't do is stay home.

Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little-death that motivates all conservative thinking.*

Face your fear. Permit it to pass over you and through you.

When it has gone past turn to see its path.

Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.

Only you will remain."



Apologies to Frank Herbert.

An actual result from a paper published by the APA.

Okay, while I would love to see a woman POTUS in my lifetime, Hillary is not my first choice. But, if she is the nominee, I will happily support her. Just look at the alternatives.

since THE DONALD has entered the race today I don't know anymore

It's not "The Donald" any more, it's T-Rump. You know like T-Rex.

#feelthebern

As you can see I like to stir it up a bit.

I live in NY, which will go Democratic no matter who wins. Stein shall get my vote, should Bernie lose the nomination.
BUT, Bernie shall win the nomination hands down, and once he wins the nomination, he shall win the election in a landslide like never before seen in this country!

voting for the candidate you hope will win. That's a sort of pretzel ethics....

It's a set of principles where the inevitable winner does not need your vote, so you vote for the party of more ethics, to keep that party on the ballot next time around.

Just stop and consider your words.

Or look at the mission statement of this discussion board.

And don't be a


.... I. Can't. Even.....

That's probably why I'm going to vote for Bernie. He at least stands a chance in the general election.

I'm a real liberal and I won't be setting on my hands. Seems to me like we had a group who did that recently but it wasn't us liberals. A hint it was the ones who didn't get what they wanted the time before that who did
Look at the mess we're in now because of it. The house solidly in the pukes hands now with the senate too. Fuck this noise trying to project off on to us what they did themselves.
This is how I see it over here in the northeast oklahoma way.

I just don't think the votes are in yet regarding the Democratic primaries. Polls can give an idea of what is happening but are easily susceptible to manipulation. When the dust settles the Democratic candidate has to be supported no matter who she or he might be.

I will probably support Bernie in the primary (although I'll give O'Malley a look, too), but I'll vote for whoever the nominee turns out to be. I'm pretty meh about Hillary but she'll at least appoint Supreme Court justices who won't scare me.

and obligations amassed by Hillary Clinton? I get the impression that some "realistic observers" are willing to accept another war in order for their candidate to win.

and no one hates war more than a sane veteran. However, it occurs to me that just about any Republican nominee is more likely to drag us into another unnecessary war than any Democratic nominee.

in your signature line. It's interesting, well written and worth a look. I'm sorry you have experienced unwelcoming responses to your thread starter. Sadly, such things happen here all too often. I encourage you to keep posting on DU. We need well-written and considered posts from a broad point of view here. Don't let some discourage you.

...and I appreciate your feed back on my blog. Come over and visit sometime.

I like posting here and it going to take more than what these guys put out to scare me off. I just don't scare too easily. Actually I knew I would get some unfriendly replies when I posted this topic -some people get kind a testy when they are deeply involved in a candidate - but it is a subject that people will have to think about sooner or later. I would like to think that the sooner that they start thinking about what they would do if their candidate should happen to lose the nomination, the rational their response will be if it happens.

Besides, there is a part of me that just likes to stir stuff up.

Liberal means all things to all people.

DU doesn't seem to get that concept.

My neighbor is a Liberal and she is a Socialist. I am not a Socialist but I am a Liberal. Many side to the coin.

choice in the Primaries, but when we had our Democratic Nominee, that is who I voted for in the General Election.

Personally, I am for Bernie Sanders... but will vote for whomever the Nominee is in the General, again.

SITTING HOME POUTING IS **NOT** AN OPTION!!! GET OFF YOUR ASS AND **VOTE**!!!

Peace,

Ghost

or unreal liberals?

Tired of intellectually lazy arguments.

for this excessively silly thread.

I don't care much for labels, so frankly, I don't get what is meant be a "real" liberal. But then I don't go for ""Democratic Socialist" or "Corporatist" either.

Here in Europe, we do have a few countries run by Social Democrats (not the same as self-labeled Democratic Socialists). Most, like the Scandinavian countries, grapple with inherent corruption and internal problems just like every other country. The old East German SED, which was so "wonderful" that to keep their "Realexistierender Sozialismus (truly existing socialism)" intact, they had to build an armed border perimeter with the guns pointed inward. After that wall fell, they renamed themselves the PDS, or "Party of Democratic Socialism." They still never got around to admitting how perverse their wall murders were.

You'll see plenty of posts of proud independents telling you whom they WON'T vote for. That's what voting rights are all about, and it's a right we need to defend, although the end result this particular time will ironically be that this precious right will be drastically curtailed if a Republican gets to choose the next Supreme Court Justices. "You will never take away my right to make bullets, even though the firing squad couldn't kill me if I didn't."

A friend of mine from England was visiting the southern USA several years ago. Inevitably the discussion at some point turned to politics, and they found her views not to their liking, and let her know it. She said, "then they called me a liberal, which surprised me, and I thanked them for the compliment." Both sides were confused. They were using "liberal" as a derogatory label pounded into their heads by Fox Noise. She, being from England and speaking only her native language, only knew what "liberal" means in English, and was pleasantly surprised at the sudden compliment.

Defining labels gets messy, so "real liberal" and "corporatist" mean about as much to me as "tralfazzist" and "fruvelite." I'm willing to let the words of Sanders, O'Malley and Clinton speak louder than any labels anyone on this (or any other) board attaches to them. That is what I will base my primary vote on, not some label bestowed on any of them by someone else.

I will unabashedly state that. I'm not going to be shamed into supporting Hillary before she is the nominee, because like I stated, I want someone else to be our nominee.

If she wins the primary, of course I will support her and vote for her - but she hasn't won shit, yet, therefore I and every other Democrat are more than welcome to look to somebody that they think can lead our country as President better than she can.

You are not going to get any traction with me until we've held a primary and have an actual winner of said primary. It's all horseshit and attempts at pricking people's consciences like we are sinners for not backing her when she hasn't won the primary yet.

I hope she doesn't win the primary. There - I said it. I want somebody else. Until the primary I am free to full-throatedly support any Democrat that isn't Hillary, and trust me, I WILL!

Trying to shut people down and pretend that she doesn't have to actually become the nominee is irritating. I won't marginalize Hillary supporters if she loses the primary, and I'll ask that you extend the same courtesy and stop trying to marginalize Democrats that support someone else even before the primary.

Nor will I work for a candidate I don't believe in. No one, I repeat, no one owns my support or my vote.

Read whatever the fuck you want into that.