Dual Citizenship.

[nitpicker]

First there was Ted Cruz (Canadian/American) and his issues:

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2014/06/no-canada-sen-ted-cruz-has-formally-shed-his-dual-citizenship.html/

Then there was the issue of Boris Johnson (British/American) getting a tax bill from the US re capital gains on the sale of his UK home, thus raising questions about his loyalties:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/14/london-mayor-boris-johnson-to-renounce-us-citizenship

Add in the not-so-famous dual nationals encountered (my German/American dorm mate, the shop co-owner that had to do Israeli military service because he was a descendant, etc.) and one can see why Rehm thought that the reports of Sanders being Israeli/American were true.

BUT Bernie's father immigrated from POLAND. Thus Bernie would not have been given Israeli citizenship at birth. Under the Right of Return, he could have moved to Israel and applied for citizenship, but I don't anything asserting that.

For more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law

[DFW]

1. Actually, I DON'T see why Rehm thought reports of Sanders being a dual citizen were true.

He was born in the USA, which means that if he or his parents had wanted an additional nationality for him, it would have to have been actively sought and applied for--something that never happened.

Rehm had NO reason to believe that Sanders had dual citizenship other than internet crap started by Buddha only knows who. Sanders has visited Israel. Big deal. I have visited Iceland. That doesn't mean I have sought, much less acquired, Icelandic citizenship.

[beam me up scottie]

2. Damn straight!

[JustAnotherGen]

3. Plus 1000

And this nonsense needs to be shut down right this minute.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. So what? She admitted it was wrong so...

why not let it go?

[Omaha Steve]

5. Fight the swift boaters head on

And W would have lost in 2004.

[beam me up scottie]

7. +1

[pangaia]

36. Diane is not a swift boater.

[Omaha Steve]

39. Naw

She just uses facebook as a source is the point.

[2banon]

46. I listened to a show of hers several years ago, can't remember now who was being interviewed..

but my ultimate impression was that she wasn't very bright.

I didn't see her as a shill for repukes, but just not impressed with her political acumen. or the lack thereof, and immediately understood how she would never get aired in the immediate SF Bay area..

I certainly have my issues with Michael Krasney, but she wouldn't be able to hold a candle stick to his level of journalistic ethos and interviewing qualifications.

[jwirr]

45. That may be your opinion but she was using a known rw rag as proof of her idiotic statement. Take

a look, if you happen to have a Jewish congressman then yours is on the list also. The sight she was using has every Jewish person who has served in the government in the last 20 years on it. She failed to see that the rw rag was equating being of Jewish heritage with being a duel citizen. She is a very bad example of a journalist.

[DrDan]

13. +1

[cali]

26. she said she was wrong to assert it and that she should have put it in

question form. Nope. You shouldn't ask that question based only on relgion/ethnicity and a list with, to put it kindly, a dubious provenance. If one of bernie's parents was an Israeli, is the only way it would have been a legitimate question and not an antisemitic smear.

[MrModerate]

6. She wouldn't be the first media person to fall for phony Internet stories . . .

Just one of the more embarrassing ones.

[DFW]

8. You're right, not by a long shot

But my impressions of her, which come from an admittedly limited number of shows, as I am not in the States much any more, were that she was a serious journalist, not nearly as prone as some of her more sensationalist colleagues, and not susceptible to falling for something this easily debunked. I'm sure her staff was probably more responsible than she was personally, but with her experience, I would have thought that the very notion would have set off alarm bells--if for no other reason than no whisper of this assertion has popped up in the decades leading up to his candidacy.

My dad was one of the last highly respected print journalists in Washington, and I am maybe a little hyper-sensitive to the issue. If he didn't get absolutely solid verification for something, he never reported it as fact. He got cited by both extreme right and solid left in the Congressional Record for his fairness, even though the guys on the right knew perfectly well about his solid Democratic leanings.

[deutsey]

31. She's a regular on the inside-the-beltway cocktail circuit

Or she was.

I believe there are two likely scenarios:

She was intellectually lazy and grabbed something from a FB comment (?) as part of her "research"; or she's a dupe, willing or otherwise, and was fed this disinformation from one her cocktail circuit chums.

[DFW]

51. There's a third possibility

Ate age 78, she relies on trusted researchers, and one of THEM was too lazy to check out something which SHOULD have rung alarm bells the second he/she saw it.

As for inside-the-beltway, well she was born there. That's not her fault. I was born inside the beltway (just barely), too, though I never seemed to make the cocktail circuit, and haven't really lived there since I was in my teens.

[deutsey]

52. Yeah, I thought that too about the researchers

For an ex-model, Diane has done well for herself as a talk show host. I used to like her a lot. If a staff person dug that info up for her, it still shows a kind of journalistic laziness on her part, in my opinion.

If you're from inside beltway, you should know there's a difference between being inside the beltway and being Inside-the-Beltway.

Derrick McGinty, who used to have a show after hers on WAMU in the '90s, was also from inside the beltway, but I don't recall him becoming chummy with establishment bigwigs the way Diane did, especially after her show went national.

[DFW]

53. I was sorta both

My dad was a print correspondent from a one-horse town in the sticks. His paper sent him to DC as an experiment in 1950. He stayed for 50 years, on the job until cancer took away his last breath. He was chummy with Senators and Congressmen from all the Great Lakes states and St. Lawrence Seaway states from 1950 onward (think of the list who THAT entails). His political leanings never got in the way of his reporting, but he did all his own research, and NEVER fucked up. Not a media celebrity, but all the media celebrities knew him.

I'm betting that Rehm's research staff is to blame for this. This was too blatant an error for her to make deliberately, and my bet is that she thought it was such an easy thing to verify or debunk, that it wouldn't have gotten by her people if it was a blatant lie. She should have smelled a rat, but if a reliable, trusted researcher told her it was true, and that person hadn't screwed up in the past, she had no reason to doubt this, suspicious as it should have been (as in "why has this not been mentioned by ANYBODY before now?&quot was total bunk.

[deutsey]

56. I'd be willing to bet you're right

Honestly, I haven't been following this brouhaha in fine detail as others here are, but Diane has given two explanations that I've seen, right?

1) The info came from a comment on Facebook (a really shoddy source, frankly); and 2) that it was from a list that was given to her (isn't that what she said to Sanders?).

Both of those could indicate that someone on her staff found the info on FB (still shaking my head over that) and gave her the "list" of Jewsih-Americans that Sanders was apparently included on.

Being the host, though, she's the one stuck wiping the yolk off her face, unfortunately.

As you point out, she could've certainly used a stronger BS detector.

[DFW]

58. I only heard about it today, too.

Living and working mostly in Central Europe now, I don't hear these things on the way to work in the morning.

Your right that even if the fault lies with some nameless researcher who is now probably hiding under a desk somewhere or in the janitor's closet, she is the one with egg on her face because it was her voice heard nationwide spouting the ridiculous claim. For someone in the "biz" as long as she has been, she should have smelled a rat. Maybe she was late to the studio that day, and didn't have time to check her prepared notes before the show.

I suspect she won't let THAT happen again anytime soon.

[pangaia]

37. I have listened to her for years.

However this mistake was made, your first paragraph is my take on her and this situation.

.....people out here calling for her to be fired, comparing her to Brian Williams, accusing her of swift boating Bernie Sanders... probably the same people who have all the answers when an aircraft disappears or crashes... OH it must have been the 'automatic pilot system,' Oh no, it was a drunk pilot, no no it was a terrorist....

[SusanCalvin]

12. It wasn't even "reports"!

It was fb. FB!! She said so herself, on her own fb page. If she really thought it was a fact, she should have, duh, fact-checked it.

[Adrahil]

24. I agree. It would be a big deal to me if Sanders WAS a dual citizen....

... but Rehm (or likely her staff) made a HUGE mistake. I'm glad she apologized to Sanders. He did not deserve that.

[oberliner]

40. Why would that be a big deal?

What's the difference?

[2banon]

48. any presidential candidate with a dual citizenship not a big deal to you?

without getting into the Constitutional weeds of the matter, the natural-born-citizen clause was written for the purpose of preventing executive office occupant(s) of having foreign loyalties, which a dual citizenship would harbor.

[Adrahil]

67. Because a Presidential candidate should not have competing loyaties, IMO.

ThemPresident should be concerned with exactly one nation: this one.

[L0oniX]

44. She was confused and though FB was FactBook.

[Igel]

54. Well, now that I know that it's obvious

that I always knew that.

And also it should have been obvious that at no point did he or his parents (with his full consent, even if he was still alingual) actively seek dual citizenship.

That's the problem: What did she know and when did she know it?

Moreover, what's the chance that this is a question to (a) merely perk up interest, (b) correct something at best tangentially related that she wanted to clarify or put down, (c) responding to something a viewer sent in?

Because, I mean, any of those three might be fully non-anti-Semitic reasons for asking the question, especially in such a prominent way--I mean, allocating 30 seconds to it in an show that's probably 50 minutes long (making it really and truly the central theme). I assume we know, for sure, that these are non-reasons and have seen into her soul before becoming outraged and sitting in judgment.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. We don't get to automatically accuse those who didn't like W.C. Fields of homophobia because he was often photographed sucking on a big one. Perhaps they just didn't like his humor or acting, his drawl or his drinking, not because they thought "hmm ... cigar = penis, sucking on cigar = fellatio, W.C. Fields must be homosexual therefore I will hate him.&quot

As for "Sanders has visited Israel. Big deal"? I've heard similar kinds of innuendo said about others. If with respect to Israel, from anti-Semites posting as anti-Zionists, with the vague assumption that to go to Israel is to seek instructions or suck up to those you support against your own country's best interests. Usually, btw, in the I/P forum. But there are also those who visited Saudi Arabia and therefore have claims adduced divided loyalties made, with treason being imputed.

The only thing really different about this is "anti-Semitism" can be introduced into the equation--not even "divided loyalties". It's a protected group and so it's outrageous. Make the same kind of unfounded claim about others, and, well, it's low, hateful, unthinking, prejudiced, but hey, it's not "anti-Semitic."

It's not 1979. It's the 1950s.

[DFW]

55. I should probably have known this but...

What is "the I/P forum"?

[csziggy]

57. I/P forum = Iraeli / Palestinian Forum, I believe n/t

[DFW]

59. OK, thanks. Makes sense enough

I rarely visit the forums, and one as full of sniping as that one probably is wouldn't be my main destination anyway.

[BlueMTexpat]

9. Even if ...

I'm sorry, but I don't see what a big deal anyone's dual citizenship is, particularly if the status was acquired at birth.

A case could be made for one's having taken specific steps to acquire a non-US nationality, after being born a US citizen. A case could even be made for requiring a dual national to waive his/her non-US nationality if that person is running for US President.

But Bernie Sanders is a US citizen by birth. Insofar as the facts show, he never took steps to acquire a dual nationality with any other state. So any "issue" about Bernie's so-called "dual nationality" is a created crisis. Shame on whoever created it!

I say this as a staunch Hillary supporter, btw.

PS: I have a slight recollection of there being a character in James Michener's 1971 novel The Drifters who was born with dual US/Israeli nationality and who had to make a choice about which nationality to assume by the time he was 18. The Wiki overview of the novel can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Drifters_%28novel%29

In 1971, however, US nationality law was different and one had to opt specifically for US citizenship by the time one was 18 if born with dual nationality. It was only later that US nationality law changed so that dual citizenship could be an option.

[DCBob]

10. Exactly. Many good Americans have dual citizenship.

Much ado about nothing.

[cali]

14. ever hear of the Dreyfus Affair?

No, it was no less pernicious and bigoted than birther crap. It was decidedly not much ado about nothing. Them employed an ancient well known bigoted smear to Sanders.

[Adrahil]

25. I don;t have a problem with dual citizenship unless....

serving in the government or military of this this country.

Such people should not have competing loyalties.

[DrDan]

34. exactly - just the latest ootd

[2banon]

49. Writers/Founders of our Constitution thought it was a big deal, and so do I. .

maybe this bit of reasoning from wiki will help:

(bold emphasis mine)

Rationale[edit]

The purpose of the natural born citizen clause is to protect the nation from foreign influence. Alexander Hamilton, a Convention delegate from New York, wrote in Federalist No. 68 about the care that must be taken in selecting the president: "Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one quarter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils."[5]

[BlueMTexpat]

65. I don't entirely disagree.

Did you read this part of my post?

... A case could even be made for requiring a dual national to waive his/her non-US nationality if that person is running for US President.

That requirement does not seem to be in the US Constitution, however. The Federalist papers, while giving an idea of what at least some Founders thought, are not the US Constitution.

The fact is that in today's very globalized world, some people can acquire (or at least are eligible for) dual nationality by birth. In the case at issue, however, Bernie Sanders is not one of them. So, for Bernie, the issue is moot. Period.

Insofar as the nation's being protected from foreign influence is concerned, however, US nationality is certainly no guarantee that any natural-born American citizen with a single nationality will not betray his or her country or not put foreign interests above the interests of that country.

I would posit that those who deliberately shirk their obligation to pay their fair share of US taxes by moving their funds or their businesses offshore are literally traitors to the US, whatever their nationality. I also posit that any Congress critters who deliberately and overtly try to undermine any US President with other foreign leaders when that President is in the process of negotiating an international resolution (e.g., with Iran) are much more dangerous to the US than any American who happens to be a dual national but does not act in such a despicable manner. Further, those who allow themselves to be swayed by such as Netanyahu, for example, against the interests of the US are surely not all dual nationals.

To clarify, although I myself am an expat (for the past 20+ years), I have never exercised my option (and I am eligible for one by residence, not birth) for a second nationality. I also pay US taxes (both federal and state) as well as the taxes due to the country of my foreign residence. Perhaps someday I will exercise the option for a dual nationality. But that day is not today.

[treestar]

11. It's funny, we would not mind asking Ted Cruz

Anyone running for POTUS will get these questions. If they can't take it, they shouldn't be POTUS.

It was more ridiculous to imply President Obama was a Kenyan. Which he might have been if Kenyan laws allow.

[cali]

15. it's not odd at all. accusing Jews of divided loyalties has a long, ugly

and deadly history. that you are ignorant of that doesn't make it less true. It is every bit as bad as the Kenya shit with Obama.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_affair

[LeftishBrit]

16. Well, it's the same sort of thing

Basically, racism in both situations: if you are Jewish or black, your loyalty or even your actual citizenship comes under suspicion.

Of course, anyone running for high office is likely to come up against some form of prejudice - be it sexism for Hillary Clinton; white racism for Barack Obama; or anti-Semitism for Bernie Sanders- , and should have a strategy for dealing with it, but that doesn't make it justifiable.

[Bonobo]

17. "Answer the question, Jew!"

Why not ask Hillary if PMS would affect her job performance. That's YOUR logic.

Simple question, right?

[beam me up scottie]

18. You said in another thread that Bernie had "ties" to another country.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6814954

What did you mean by that?

[Bonobo]

19. I'd like to hear the answer to that as well, Treestar! nt

[KittyWampus]

30. To what? Treestar didn't say what BMUS falsely claimed she said.

And what's bizarre is a link is provided so that bogus claim can be clearly seen.

[Bonobo]

33. He sure as hell did. Here's the quote:

Why not just answer?

It's not a "slur" any more than when asked of anyone else with any ties to any other country.

Anyone that reads that can see that the "anyone else" clearly means that Sanders (also) has ties to another country.

[CreekDog]

64. It would be nice to have you oppose sexism as strongly as

you are opposing anti-semitism here.

I think it's good to vocally oppose both.

[cali]

20. well that's repugnant. saying that shit makes things clear.

[beam me up scottie]

21. Oh that particular thread was VERY enlightening.

In so many ways.

[Bonobo]

22. Actually if we were talking about that said about a Muslim Senator...

I am sure there would be more outrage and that poster would be booted.

[beam me up scottie]

23. No doubt.

Perhaps now is the time to shine a light in those dark corners.

[KittyWampus]

29. Treestar didn't say that. If you followed the link it's quite clear she does NOT say

Bernie has ties to other countries.

[oberliner]

41. "It's not a "slur" any more than when asked of anyone else with any ties to any other country. "

That's the direct quote - people can just for themselves.

[KittyWampus]

28. Treestar did not say what you just claimed. I went to your link to see.

Just posting in hopes other DU'ers won't take your bogus assertion as truth.

[cali]

32. he said clearly that it wasn't a slur. it damn well is.

[beam me up scottie]

63. Well let's just look at what they said then:

Why not just answer?

It's not a "slur" any more than when asked of anyone else with any ties to any other country.

No you are using this to make it impossible to take the position we should not continue to prop Israel. That's where the slur comes in. Rather than just say "No, I'm American first and America's interests, not Israel's" guide my positions on the issues, it is more important not to say that and play the victim for being asked. Right wingers get to hide behind this one too, as their interests in Israel are military and warmongering, and they don't have to say so.

Bernie has no "ties" to any other country. It's an anti-semitic slur to claim that an American's loyalty should be questioned just because they're Jewish.

It's allowed when it is any other country.

I do not want someone who puts Israel first in any office, let alone the Presidency.

You'd be fine with a POTUS that puts some other country first?

This is a "victimhood" very light compared to what other groups of people have put up with.

I have known at least one person who admitted Israel was more important.

If you want to be POTUS, state clearly and unequivocally that the US is your first priority.

[DrDan]

35. yep

[csziggy]

61. Unlike Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders, Ted Cruz WAS born outside the US

Neither of Cruz's parents were Canadian - his father was Cuban and his mother American - so his Canadian citizenship was based on the location of his birth.

BOTH Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders were born in the US so there should never have been any question of their citizenship. While Sanders might be eligible for Israeli citizenship because of his religion, he would have to take proactive steps to apply for it. While Barack Obama might have been eligible for Kenyan citizenship, his father would have had to stake proactive steps to apply for it. Neither family did so since both were happy to hold US citizenship.

On the other hand, Ted Cruz did NOT take the proactive steps to renounce his Canadian citizenship until well after it became a political issue (in May of last year! http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2014/06/no-canada-sen-ted-cruz-has-formally-shed-his-dual-citizenship.html/).

What does that say about Ted Cruz's loyalty to this country?

[drray23]

27. this question of dual citizenship borders on xenophobia

I hold dual-citizenship ( french/american) and I find it insulting to imply that my citizenship if of a lesser kind. When you take that oath you are a full fledged citizen. period. Worries about were loyalties may lie are over the top. There is a better case to be made when it comes to that. I mean,most of our elected officials were born here and yet many of them are sold out to powerful lobbies. How is that for loyalty to the country ?


The only exception is in the constitution and it pertains to running/being the president. For everything else it should not matter.

Of course none of that is even relevant in the case of senator Sanders since he was born here.

[Snobblevitch]

47. Perception is reality in politics.

People perceive there to be a problem if a person running for POTUS has dual citizenship.

For anybody else in the U.S. with dual citizenship, legally it does not matter. The only thing that matters is if a person is a U.S. citizen or not a U.S. citizen.

[jeff47]

62. If there was a lengthy history of accusations of French "stabbing our country in the back"

resulting in the incarceration and murder of large numbers of French people, your comparison would be valid.

There is a very lengthy history of accusing Jews of "stabbing our country in the back". It was the justification used by Hitler, for example.

So there just might be a reason for people to be a little more touchy on this when it's about Israel instead of France.

[BlueMTexpat]

66. Exactly.

You have two great nationalities, IMO.

[Recursion]

38. He worked on a kibbutz for a while

A lot of American Jewish kids his age did aliyah like that. I assume that's where that rumor came from.

[oberliner]

42. No, that's not where that rumor came from

It came from a list circulating on Facebook and elsewhere. On this list are Jewish members of Congress identified as dual citizens of Israel and the US even though none of them are.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Of course Cruz was actually born in Calgary Canada and was an actual dual citizen.

Fairly large difference.

[Eleanors38]

60. But Cruz is a bully, and bullies usually own this kind of "debate".....

THEY will tell you who is to be pushed around. The GOP and now some trolls have practiced this dynamic with considerable impunity for some time.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

50. Actually, the U.S. is ambivalent about dual or multiple citizenships in peace time

it's the other government that may have a problem. For instance, some countries require that you renounce that nationality when you naturalize as a U.S. citizen. Others don't give a crap (such as my own country of Italy).

And it's not unusual in my line of business to encounter people who have several nationalities. An example: U.S., Canadian, U.K., Australian.

My dad and sister are dual U.S.-Italian nationals by choice. I am still an Italian national but U.S. Lawful Permanent Resident (a/k/a 'green card' holder), which I can be for as long as I want, as there is no obligation that I become a U.S. citizen.

In many ways, being a dual national does help with international work and travel. You get to pick the shortest line at the airport and, if needed, you get to have a broader pool of employment possibilities without the visa restrictions. As Italian nationals we can work and live anywhere in the EU and as U.S. citizens or LPRs we get to live and work anywhere in the U.S. and its territories.

For my sister's kids (who are also Italian citizens due to my sister's citizenship), they could attend Italian schools and universities without needing visas.