I am fascinated by this prison outbreak. I want to ask your opinions.

I think the "authorities" have no idea whatsoever as to where these two guys are.

Kind of frightening for those who live in that area.

But, I think they may be long gone from NY.

usually quickly, occasionally they stay at large for a few months or as long as a year or two. If I had to guess, they're somewhere nearby. There are a lot of weekend/vacation cabins where they could hole up.

I'm actually surprised they have not been caught yet.

once the vacation season gets underway bigtime those empty cabins and summer houses will start to fill up. I hate to think of what they might do...

The ones who slip through the cracks aren't documented.

The Weathermen went underground in 1970 and most were never caught. Of course they had a support network and these people do not.

I saw on the TV a few days ago a list of escapees from various prisons who were never caught. Doesn't mean these two won't be caught, but some do manage to stay on the loose forever.

If you take the time to post a link to wtf you're talking about.

Two murderers broke out Friday and it was not discovered until Saturday. It is all over the news. You can google it.

But I'll go and find a link. Hell, Governor Cuomo was even filmed in the tunnel they escaped in. It's like Shawshank Redemption all over again.

Seriously? You have not heard of this?

File in the cake jail break...

to me, Andy's escape was different because he was innocent, I am not sure about these two.

I hope they figure out who helped them on the inside (I am assuming they had someone looking the other way). This is going to cost a lot of money, I imagine. The hours spent figuring out how it happened and looking for them.

I don't know where they could be! But I hope they don't harm anyone else. I always figured if I was going to escape prison I would get far far away, which is why I think it is funny when people don't want a prison in their town.

Other thoughts on prisons: we have too many and too many people are in their for non-violent reasons, which to me is the only reason we should have them. And profiting from prison is horrible.

With the guilt/power tools/ arts and crafts and escape

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/10/us/new-york-prison-break/index.html

Huge story all over the internet, mainstream media, etc.

I kind of thought anyone would have heard of it.

Apparently (according to the ABC News update I included), they were likely spotted close to the prison early on, but that was a couple of days ago. Law enforcement from Vermont is now on alert, according to the news today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/106821092

I have a lot of questions, that I guess no one knows.......IF they haven't found someone to rob, or someone to help them.....what about food, shelter, money, transportation, guns etc. Surely they aren't just staggering around the woods after 5 days without any of these things?
I also think they would be smart enough to split up, as they wouldn't be as identifiable as seeing one as opposed to 2 together.

I also wonder how many really bad felons (murder etc.) have escaped and never been caught other than the Alcatraz pair.

These things are so intriguing. Cool Hand Luke, except not cool and very real.

If somebody on the outside helped them, it would be easy enough to hide them until the search dies down. Even in a small apartment you could hide two people for a month, then take them where they wanted to go when things return to normal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1135

Just speculating, that is...

I'll have to remember to refer speculators to the speculating group.....

We both know that it's only a conspiracy theory when refering to what others are thinking. Not a DU'er in sight has ever, ever, hatched a speculative thought!

Have fun with the referals.

For a couple minutes I was willing to let that take over what's left of my thinking apparatus too.

But to continue to beat a dead horse, why does a story like this get so much front-page coverage when, just as one example, Bernie's announcement that he was a candidate and for that matter almost every event related to his candidacy is back-paged at best.

Journalism seems to be more or less over. Selling advertising, propagating fear, and parroting the propaganda is the default corporate media agenda.

I think this is news.

Not only that, but it appeals to us on so many levels. Pure Americana.

I just hope they are caught. And at the same time, thinking Run Forest Run.!

Crazy, but I'm just fascinated.

Rural areas are giant fish bowls, anything different in the day to day rhythm set off alarms.

I live in a rural area, and there are a lot of woods around.

Damn right I would notice anything, and so would my dogs. Still.

we see occasional transients who go around picking up bottles off the side of the road for bottle deposit money. Therefore, an unfamiliar, random guy walking along the roads in this town wouldn't necessarily raise any red flags... 2 guys might tho- since bottle-picking transients tend to be loners...

Also, we have a lot of out-of-state people who vacation here. If these guys aren't too disheveled looking, people would just assume the man (or men) is a vacationer; if it is someone we locals don't recognize.

There is (so far) no indication that they are in my state, but Vermont, upstate NY and NH are very similar to us in these ways.

Side-note: Even though the escapees are unlikely to be in my area, this thread has prompted me to look for my house keys, because you never know... I haven't seen them in over 5 years, but I really ought to clean out some of the overflowing junk drawers anyway...

We rarely lock our doors here.

Unless they get out of the fish bowl they should be picked up pretty soon, particularly since they're on foot after the woman who was apparently supposed to pick them up had a panic attack and didn't get them.

Yeah, that's the ticket - let's double cross two murderers!

Sounds like at minimum she knew about the escape plans and did not tell anyone. Investigatos have phone records that show phone calls were made from her cell phone to these guys' buddies before the escape.

I told my mother that if they showed up, she should put them to work in the field.

She probably would too.

that you hadn't been to since before the escape, well I think I'd send my dogs in first

So, my guess is still in the area.

They have a very limited circle of friends. No way they're outside a 100 mile circle from the prison.

that it's technically relatively easy to lay low and avoid detection -- if they want to live survivalist style and off the land. They can find an empty cabin and hole up. But then what? Chances are they don't even know how to catch and kill a rabbit much less forage for food.

Much depends on what they want to accomplish. Do they want to just live out their lives as common, ordinary people? Their only option is to commit a major crime to bankroll their goals. Even then, they need resources to even pull off a decent robbery of some sort.

Here's the thing, now that they're out, they're totally screwed. They can't get jobs in the real world unless they alter their appearances, but they were never working stiffs to begin with. They're not masterminds, so they don't have anything to offer other like minded crooks, such as pulling off a big bank job or robbery, so their chances of being helped are slim to none. They're murderers, not thieves, so who wants em? Unless it's some deluded lady love and if that chick is stupid enough to want to help them, then she's too stupid to have the vast resources they're going to need to start new lives.

They could make their way up to the Hudson Bay where there are literally like no people, but then, again, how will they survive? They don't have proper hiking gear, much less the skills needed to survive such a journey. And then, again, what will they do?

How do they earn money and eat and clothe themselves or get a car or even a phone, to communicate with who? All their contacts are being monitored and they're all broke too! What resources do they actually have? Cash is king. But even then, you have to have a passport to travel on planes across borders and start a new life somewhere far away. Even if they did, with what resources and with what goals?

Life on the run gets real old, real fast and desperation is kicking in right about now. They're going to get careless and sloppy real fast. I see a shoot out in their very near future. And there's no point in taking them alive really. They could be considering suicide at this point as well.

This scenario really only has one outcome. It's several days on, and they are REALLY missing those 3 hots and a cot right about now.

These two....not so much.

how did no one hear or smell power tools? And someone (probably that female tailor?) passed them the power tools as needed? (every day?) were they electric -- plugged in? or cordless where they would have to be recharged? How did they do all of this for so long?

No one has ever broken out of this prison before, so I also think the guards didn't really look for signs like that.

I think it's interesting.

So the noise could have been masked.

And what if somebody broke in!.. Through the manhole, up to the pipe, cut, over the cat walk, cut the steel plate. Give them the directions and retreat. Wait for the right time and "poof". No need to smuggle in tools or do any heavy lifting..
A thought…

m

cut would indicate which position in came from, inside or outside. But that just might be discovered. It seems like as good a scenario as any.

on another thread

They can blend in there for many years if they are intelligent (and they seem to be).

Assata Shakur escaped and was able to hide in NYC for 5 years before going to Cuba.

got cold feet and wasn't there waiting to help them get away after the escape.

Now, it seems, they are on their own.

This has all the makings of a good movie.

to NOT help them. Perhaps SHE should head for Canada.

Also in the Adirondak region, he managed to avoid capture for several weeks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Garrow
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1957&dat=19941002&id=rwwxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wuAFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2995,610279&hl=en

I sure hope they catch these killers.

That is interesting.

DANNEMORA, N.Y. --

The 23-year-old son of one of the convicted murderers who escaped an Upstate New York prison said his father has a genius IQ, according to The Buffalo News.

Nicholas Harris told the newspaper that prison officials should have taken more precautions when it came to his father, Richard Matt. Matt, 48, and David Sweat, 34, escaped overnight Friday from the Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora, about 20 miles south of the Canadian border.

"You know he has escaped before. He has a genius IQ. I can't believe they let this happen," Harris told the newspaper.

Matt has escaped from custody twice before, according to news reports. When Matt was 14 years old he ran away from a youth home and stole a horse to make his escape. When he was 19 years old he escaped from the Erie County Correctional Facility in Alden by scaling a wall. He was on the run for four days, according to reports.

Harris said Matt also bragged about being shot when he attempted to escape from a Mexican prison, according to the newspaper.

http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/06/escaped_murderers_son_says_father_has_genius_iq_newspaper_reports.html

I had also heard that they were allowed to wear civilian clothes in the "honor block" where they were held. That seems just plain stupid, especially if one of them had a record of escapes.

the son.

describe him as a sociopath as well. Pretty scary.

I don't recall whether a person in NY saw one or two men with a guitar case.. they had a case in prison.

So the cops assumed those guys were running around that neighborhood. Yet no cars were stolen although one trashed car turned up somewhere, and nobody reported dead.

How about the guys planned to be seen, and the witness told them to get out of his yard and they obliged him without an argument. This did not seem logical. According to what we know about them it would have been nothing to kill the man, bury him in his yard with his family and take the car and the guys' clothes and ID. And a guy with a genius IQ that one of the prisoners was reported to have might have dreamed up this encounter.


Maybe they intended to be seen, and had wheels around the block driven by a friend or contact, and they were out of state before the witness ever found out about the prison break.

They are probably heading for Mexico, and there may be only one of them, because they could have split up, or one killed the other. Two guys will draw attention.....

Leave a witness intentionally to where you've been seen...then get the hell out the area. LEOs will blow the better part of the next 12 hours scouring the area you intentionally were seen in and were 5 miles away by the time they showed up and going fast away from them. It's a smart way to burn the time/assets of your pursuers.

Sometimes I wonder if the authorities say the prisoners are close just because they do not want to admit that they have no freaking idea WHERE they are.

would be a great place to hide!

as for Canada alerts went out early and crossing the St Lawrence isn't easy. Lots of backwoods but eventually they will have to come up for air.

I can't remember how long - I would have to go look it up.

1. The prisoner's tripod - described as a baby's arm holding an apple.

2. The prison worker who helped them escape is an elected Republican official who flies the Gadsden Flag. She probably thought they were taxed enough already housing these prisoners.

I am not sure what tripod you're referring to?

I hope they lock her up for a long, long time!

he did so sweet talk her.

anyone do anything he wants so he got a lift to where a car was stashed and they are long gone from NY. Sitting inside someone's basement. Drinking a Chai latte. HOW WOULD ANYONE KNOW.

Looks like they had a plan. Long gone IMO.

they have some pretty sophisticated techniques to track these guys and with the right informants turning, I think they will be able to track them down. I really don't doubt that...it make take some time...

I thought they'd have them by now too.

god help us, they are holding someone hostage.

It seems unbelievable that they could have to quickly change plans when their getaway car didn't show up and still elude the police.

right after they escaped through the manhole cover. Using the hostage and his or her car the killers have left the state. Who knows what really has happened, but I'm sure we'll know someday. Hopefully soon!

and someone will "drop a dime" and they will be apprehended. Their photos are everywhere and there's bound to be somebody out there who wants the reward money (not sure if there is a reward, tho). But who wouldn't want these horrible killers in their area...

at least, that is what I read yesterday. Will probably go up with more time.

They didn't have transportation. They are on foot.

One of them is bound to commit some crime in order to continue to survive.

CNN just had a newsgasm.

I think I read somewhere that one of them escaped before and made it to Mexico, so that would be my guess as to where they might be headed with the intention of working their way down to a country without an extradition treaty with the U.S. The other thing I'm wondering is whether that stupid woman isn't telling everything and she stocked a cabin somewhere for them. I definitely think they've had help beyond the woman and they must have had a plan B after going to so much trouble. For all we know they're on a beach somewhere throwing back Margaritas.

This happened a long time ago and it was probably easier then.

My dad had a great uncle that killed someone in a bar fight back in the 30's outside Boston, MA. I have the news clipping as my father was always intrigued by the story.

While serving time he broke out and it was a long time family rumor that he had moved to the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area and changed his name. His sister would vacation in Niagara Falls a couple of times of years. It was only years later when more and more details came out that the family figured out the she was visiting her brother.

My dad had put this story online on one of those ancestry sites, along with the scanned clippings. I was on the thread there as well. My father changed companies and the email address he used no longer worked but mine still did. About 5 years ago a women from New Jersey emailed me. She was the daughter of this great uncle and she was trying to reach my dad.

Her dad told it that he had finished his prison time and changed his name to get a fresh start. She had some of his older paperwork with his old name on it and was doing some research on the name when she found my dads post. He had met her mother in Buffalo in the 40's and they moved to New Jersey where they raised three kids. He had passed away in the 80's never having been re-caught.

What I always found the most interesting about that story and the woman who contacted my dad (probably my third cousin twice removed or something) owes her whole existence to that fact that her dad killed a man in a bar fight. Had none of that happened he would have stayed where he was and she would have never been born.

Thanks for sharing that with us!

But I'd have to change the names... To this woman the escaped murderer was her dad and the grandfather to her kids... She sent my dad family photos with her family and her father.

She said he did not talk about it much except that he was wrongfully convected but did his time.

I'm not a huge believer in fate but when you think of all the things that had to happen just for you to be here it makes you wonder.

When I first posted this, I truly thought they would be caught pretty quick.

But wow, not so.