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Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:02 PM Jun 2015

Who remembers HRC's behavior in the 2008 Primaries?

Fine, call me a Hillary Hater. I know that some people here can't tolerate any criticism at all. I can take it. I don't hate her (and will vote for her if she is our nominee) but I do feel as if I was treated unfairly in '08 and I can't be the only one.

I do appreciate that she is out there trying to do something about the disenfranchisement of millions of voters. Her statements would have more credibility if she had not done what she did the last time she ran for office.


Yes yes yes.... I know that a primary vote is not a constitutionally protected right but it still should not be manipulated for the sake of personal ambition.


I wonder what part of Democracy she was afraid of?




http://www.commondreams.org/views/2008/03/03/clintons-duplicity-michigan-florida-delegates

^snip^

How did the Florida-Michigan debacle come to pass? And by what means can the mishaps of the Democratic National Committee and state party officials be rectified before the Democratic party convention in August in Denver, Colorado?

The Michigan-Florida delegate controversy began to percolate in December 2007, when state party officials announced their intentions to hold early primaries in direct violation of Democratic National Committee agreements and rules. The DNC took a hard line, telling state officials that rebel primaries were ceremonial and would not be counted at the convention. Both states disregarded the DNC position and held maverick primaries in January. Eager to please the superdelegates on the DNC, both Clinton and Obama agreed with the rules, and both signed pledges not to campaign in either state. "You know," Senator Clinton remarked, "it's clear the election they're having isn't going to count for anything. Obama's name did not even appear on the ballot in Michigan." (Obama was not allowed to withdraw his name in Florida.)

Clinton, however, hedged her bets. Though she vowed not to campaign, a vow that implies rejection of the election, she kept her name in the running in Michigan. She won the contest easily because Obama's name was kept off the ballot. (Jesse Jackson won the Michigan primary in 1984.) Then, coincidentally she arrived at the Miami airport for a fundraiser on the eve of the Florida vote.


The second approach, a solution that Clinton is prepared to force on the Party regardless of the consequences, is also faulty. Clinton now claims she deserves the delegates from Michigan and Florida. Yes, Obama played by the rules. Tough on him.



P.S. I voted "uncommitted" for the first (and only) time in my life because of this.

148 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Who remembers HRC's behavior in the 2008 Primaries? (Original Post) Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 OP
That and other things Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #1
So I guess we should go back in time and warn President Obama. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #2
That's a good one. Although I didn't pay HRC any attention in 2008. freshwest Jun 2015 #22
I didn't really pay much attention to posts about Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #32
Yeah! funny. I was an ardent anti-Hillary person in 2008 but I've come around and Cha Jun 2015 #69
My mom, God bless her, passed away at 90 in 2008. DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #3
Good for you for helping your mom vote mythology Jun 2015 #117
I don't think she ever missed a vote or ever cancelled out mine... DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #118
Wait a minute. There was a competitive political race in 2008 between two ambitious people? wyldwolf Jun 2015 #4
And one is now trying to claim the high ground on voter's rights. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #16
You are so right. hifiguy Jun 2015 #26
actual then when she said votes is MI and FL should count wyldwolf Jun 2015 #76
But what about the ones who didn't turn out... Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #91
What about the ones who did and believed there's no logic in Iowa always being first? wyldwolf Jun 2015 #93
At least they are not being mislead. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #96
Who was being mislead? wyldwolf Jun 2015 #100
If it wasn't for the superdelegates there might have been different rules for electing the pledged StevieM Jun 2015 #108
Then we fundamentally disagree. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #121
I don't agree that the so-called pledged delegate count reflects the will of the people and that StevieM Jun 2015 #134
At least we agree to disagree Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #135
Yes, I remember well. HooptieWagon Jun 2015 #5
Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #6
OMG! No humor allowed! Get with the program! Divernan Jun 2015 #9
Sorry DJ13 Jun 2015 #12
You just keep digging deeper! Divernan Jun 2015 #17
That was quite the stunt you pulled there. Flying Squirrel Jun 2015 #38
Why do you think it is clever to call a woman "a little C" or "a little B"? SunSeeker Jun 2015 #46
I don't. Flying Squirrel Jun 2015 #47
+ a Brazilian hifiguy Jun 2015 #52
Awww, upset that you can't call Hillary the geek tragedy Jun 2015 #110
Hardly. That is a word I do not use hifiguy Jun 2015 #113
...too late... truebrit71 Jun 2015 #132
Then why did you lie and say it was clever? SunSeeker Jun 2015 #57
It actually was and he said "it" hifiguy Jun 2015 #59
It depends on your definition of the word "it" Flying Squirrel Jun 2015 #67
I was referring to the fact Flying Squirrel Jun 2015 #60
This ^ Egnever Jun 2015 #63
This message was self-deleted by its author Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #15
I am shocked! Divernan Jun 2015 #19
Sexist post. SunSeeker Jun 2015 #31
At least this got a hide.. so clever. not. Cha Jun 2015 #70
Deleted. sorry Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #74
Thank you. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #104
Get it all out. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #33
Prescisely .. don't hold back. Says everything about them and nothing about their target. Cha Jun 2015 #71
RESULTS OF JURY SERVICE --> 2-5 LEAVE IT nashville_brook Jun 2015 #34
Another example of our broken jury system. SunSeeker Jun 2015 #43
Hardly. hifiguy Jun 2015 #50
Agree Juror 1 is being disingenuous treestar Jun 2015 #79
Hillary supporters won't be winning many jury votes LordGlenconner Jun 2015 #105
Not Bernie devotees. People who genuinely admire geek tragedy Jun 2015 #111
That this was alerted on hifiguy Jun 2015 #49
So what would you do? murielm99 Jun 2015 #53
Who's calling for "banning anyone who supports Hillary"? Scootaloo Jun 2015 #58
No one. Straw man. hifiguy Jun 2015 #61
Bringing race into this is the straw man. murielm99 Jun 2015 #62
What offends me is the hypocrisy. DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #84
The censorious feel emboldened. The jury disagrees. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2015 #99
Hillary was just trying to win cloudythescribbler Jun 2015 #7
Aren't the (R)s just trying to win? Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #14
EVERYone is "just trying to win." Duh. merrily Jun 2015 #37
+1000 MissDeeds Jun 2015 #81
That was kinda my point. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #92
I knew. I was trying to agree and then add to what you had said. merrily Jun 2015 #116
but JUST trying to win? Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #139
So is the 1% ....or is that just saying the same thing. L0oniX Jun 2015 #103
I remember the dog whistles her and Bill blew, but many Exilednight Jun 2015 #8
Like for example - LiberalElite Jun 2015 #11
Dog whistles by the campaign and its surrogates in general. merrily Jun 2015 #40
One quickly learns on recruiting duty that putting someone on the schedule edgineered Jun 2015 #10
I remember that time very well. 2banon Jun 2015 #13
Yes, I remember it very well, thanks for reminding me! rock Jun 2015 #18
These parlor debates and rehashing of old topic is making me somnolent. DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #21
It's my bedtime too rock Jun 2015 #23
It's only 8:30 here but I got up at 5:00 DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #28
LOL, good one. She continued the primary long after she had a mathematical chance of winning. merrily Jun 2015 #80
I think you left out the word "no" Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #123
LOL, but not as good as you rock Jun 2015 #126
She did what was best for her career. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #138
Pure fantasy. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #122
Remembering everything seveneyes Jun 2015 #20
I do, and the dog-whistling hifiguy Jun 2015 #24
Here you go Aerows Jun 2015 #107
You do NOT want to get me started on the 08 primary fiascos. madfloridian Jun 2015 #25
I'd read it. hifiguy Jun 2015 #27
Trust me when I say you do not want to go there. madfloridian Jun 2015 #30
I have a taste for weird reading hifiguy Jun 2015 #39
So was I. madfloridian Jun 2015 #41
I was a big Obama supporter then too. lovemydog Jun 2015 #48
Madfloridan, you did an epic job reporting on the '08 primaries. HooptieWagon Jun 2015 #29
Thanks. FL was a mess. madfloridian Jun 2015 #54
Yes I do. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #119
OBama picked her to be Sec of State, a lot happened since then, and before then JI7 Jun 2015 #35
He knows politics is a bit of a rough game 6chars Jun 2015 #131
I voted "uncommitted" too. fadedrose Jun 2015 #36
Oh please, here comes the bull crap again. Beacool Jun 2015 #42
Well said, Beacool. SunSeeker Jun 2015 #44
Thank you. Beacool Jun 2015 #45
I'm a woman first, political affiliation comes second. DonCoquixote Jun 2015 #56
NO woman should be called sexist names, regardless of their politics. Beacool Jun 2015 #89
not the question DonCoquixote Jun 2015 #90
I saw a poll on DU from back then where you said you absolutly would not vote for Nominee Obama Scootaloo Jun 2015 #64
President Obama was an amazing candidate and then won the Presidency and chose Hillary as his Cha Jun 2015 #72
It may be so, but it seems that some people want to rehash the 2008 election. Beacool Jun 2015 #86
Yeah, some Sanders' supporters who want to throw discord. Cha Jun 2015 #106
You said it.......... Beacool Jun 2015 #115
We want to avoid making the same mistakes again Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #125
There has not been a more stalwart supporter of President Obama on this board than me DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #83
Exactly. Beacool Jun 2015 #87
But she would have lost Michigan. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #94
Those 40% were not all Obama voters. Beacool Jun 2015 #97
There would have been more, but many didn't turn out Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #98
Maybe, maybe not. Beacool Jun 2015 #114
I do, she went viral on President Obama as did her husband! akbacchus_BC Jun 2015 #51
As a Florida Voter DonCoquixote Jun 2015 #55
No. I want to talk about Don Denkinger's bad call in the '85 World Series bluestateguy Jun 2015 #65
Despite all the Cardinals successes I will never forget that series. DCBob Jun 2015 #75
My complaint about her behavior Warpy Jun 2015 #66
Spot on Egnever Jun 2015 #68
Like 8 days for "I didn't want to carry 2 phones"? Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #128
Yeah.. it was despicable at times but I've forgiven her. DCBob Jun 2015 #73
and if she falls back into this pattern in the General.... Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #129
Our odds of winning are much much better with Hillary than anyone else running on the Dem side. DCBob Jun 2015 #130
I disagree Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #133
And yet with all these "terrible" faults... DCBob Jun 2015 #136
I believe it is a mile wide and an inch deep. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #137
The difference was the caucus states.. DCBob Jun 2015 #140
Unless she claims to have dodged sniper fire... Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #141
There is no one better running. DCBob Jun 2015 #142
At this point, wasn't Obama in about the same boat? Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #143
Bernie is no Obama... but sure lets wait a bit to render final judgement. DCBob Jun 2015 #144
he may be better than Obama Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #145
To you perhaps but not to most voters. DCBob Jun 2015 #146
I thought we were reserving judgment? n/t Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #147
final judgement. DCBob Jun 2015 #148
Nothing was nastier than PUMA in 2008. tridim Jun 2015 #77
Too long ago treestar Jun 2015 #78
Res ipsa loquitur DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #82
This isn't about grudges, it is about character. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #124
I do. It was pretty bad, and I was upset about it. DanTex Jun 2015 #85
Jesus. Who remembers that she and Obama buried the hatchet and went on to work quite well together? Hekate Jun 2015 #88
I am speaking to her manipulation of the voters Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #95
Politics is not a Sunday tea party. Just sayin' Hekate Jun 2015 #102
To quote Dr. Maddow Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #120
I remember quite well. 99Forever Jun 2015 #101
I remember it quite well and I'll repeat what I wrote on this very board at the time: StevieM Jun 2015 #109
Oh yes, I remember those days well. sadoldgirl Jun 2015 #112
I voted "uncommitted" in MI, as John Edwards wasn't on the ballot ... JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2015 #127

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
1. That and other things
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:05 PM
Jun 2015

even more distasteful. 2007-2008 saw a lot of bad behaviour from candidates, surrogates, and supporters.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
22. That's a good one. Although I didn't pay HRC any attention in 2008.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:09 PM
Jun 2015
Didn't listen to anything she said outside the debates. Went from Mike Gravel (who read the Pentagon Papers into the Congressional Record) to Obama because of what I saw going on in the debates. But yeah, Obama knew better than me, and he changed her views.


Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
32. I didn't really pay much attention to posts about
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 12:00 AM
Jun 2015

the primary until nearly the end. I was already supporting Obama.

I just don't know what we gain by rehashing the primary of 7 years ago. But I've seen DUers who are still pissed at Ted Kennedy from 1980, so...

Cha

(297,100 posts)
69. Yeah! funny. I was an ardent anti-Hillary person in 2008 but I've come around and
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:52 AM
Jun 2015

appreciate her.

I like all the Dem candidates so far.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
3. My mom, God bless her, passed away at 90 in 2008.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:08 PM
Jun 2015

The last vote she cast was for Hillary in the Florida primary . She was legally blind and in a wheel chair so I had to help her with her ballot.


DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
118. I don't think she ever missed a vote or ever cancelled out mine...
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 11:26 PM
Jun 2015

I don't think she ever missed a vote or ever cancelled out mine and given my moniker that was a very good thing.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
16. And one is now trying to claim the high ground on voter's rights.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 10:47 PM
Jun 2015

The one who tried to have superdelegates over rule the voters.

To much ambition can be a bad thing. A very bad thing.


wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
76. actual then when she said votes is MI and FL should count
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 07:07 AM
Jun 2015

... she chose the voters over DNC rules.

See how that works?

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
91. But what about the ones who didn't turn out...
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:44 PM
Jun 2015

...because they were told that the vote was meaningless?

You can try to spin this all you want but the truth exists. She disenfranchised voters for her own benefit.

The reason I turned out and voted uncommitted was because it was obvious to me that she planned on doing this all along.

She never choose the voters over the rules. She choose her own ambitions over the voters. This holds true for when she asked the Super-delegates to ignore the vote totals and simply vote for her.

You can't have it both ways, and neither can she.

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
93. What about the ones who did and believed there's no logic in Iowa always being first?
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:48 PM
Jun 2015

Significantly reducing the importance of states afterward?

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
96. At least they are not being mislead.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:53 PM
Jun 2015

The system is flawed, but telling voters that the vote means nothing and then insisting that it does, because it is now beneficial to you, is an issue who wants the high ground on voter's rights.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
108. If it wasn't for the superdelegates there might have been different rules for electing the pledged
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:31 PM
Jun 2015

delegates. The SDs were introduced in 1988 under a deal worked out by Mike Dukakis and Jesse Jackson. Prior to that rule change the delegates were awarded in a winner take all way by state. Had the old rules stayed in effect, Hillary would have won the majority of pledged delegates.

The rules specifically said that you win the nomination by winning a majority of the delegates. All the delegates. And historically that was always the understanding--there was no informal, de facto agreement that whoever led in the delegate count coming from primaries and caucuses would get the nomination. Hillary made campaign decisions within the context of those rules and that historical precedent. She won a majority of congressional districts. It was a legitimate strategy, if not a successful one.

Therefore I don't believe it is reasonable to assert that she behaved unethically by not acknowledging the Obama position regarding delegates as indisputably the correct one. And if Obama thought it was then shame on him for having her out on the campaign trail for him.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
121. Then we fundamentally disagree.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 06:45 AM
Jun 2015

I do believe that to try and overturn the will of the voters by having Super delegates simply pick the winner (one other than who the voters wanted) is unethical.


If more people agree with you then we may as well just go back to smoke filled rooms. Why even go through the charade of a primary?


StevieM

(10,500 posts)
134. I don't agree that the so-called pledged delegate count reflects the will of the people and that
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 12:27 PM
Jun 2015

you are overturning it if the leader in that particular category is not selected as nominee.

Hillary made several arguments as to why she should be nominated, like the fact that if you looked at the primary map through the prism of the electoral college map, she would come out on top. She also won a majority of congressional districts. She brought up the issue of the fairness of caucuses, and how many people can't attend, and whether it is fair to consider those delegates equal to primaries delegates. Granted the rules say that they were--but the rules also included automatic delegates (SDs) and without them there might have been different ways of counting or awarding the PDs.

I even seem to remember that in Texas Latino areas were awarded fewer delegates because they had lower turnout in the 2004 primaries. Would that have been allowed in a system that didn't include SDs? Maybe, maybe not.

My point is that there is a difference between saying that you felt Obama should be the nominee, based on a how and where the votes were cast, and saying that he so clearly was entitled to it that anyone who disagrees was trying to steal it and lacks ethics.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
135. At least we agree to disagree
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 01:26 PM
Jun 2015

For the most part, the Super delegates are elected officials. It is their sworn duty to serve their constituents. To overturn the will of their constituents would be unethical.

I have no doubt that people can rationalize unethical behavior with arguments such as an electoral map advantage. It is also clear that the argument is flawed on several levels. Most notably, Sen. Obama became President Obama even without winning the primaries in the states most influenced by money and name recognition....err... I mean the big states that Sen. Clinton was touting as her reason for rejecting the will of the people.

Again I ask, what part of Democracy is she afraid of?


 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
5. Yes, I remember well.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:19 PM
Jun 2015

The Florida debacle is often blamed by those ignorant of the situation on the republican majority in the legislature. That is emphatically wrong. The proposal to move the Primary up to Jan was made by a Hillary-supporting Democrat, to the amazement of Republicans. All but one Democrat voted for it. The thinking was that the early primary would favor Hillary (since she had far more name recognition than Obama), she would lock up the nomination early, and would then change the rules to allow FL's delegates count. We know how that ended up. Most disgusting of all was Nelson and DWS constant exposure in the media, lying through their teeth, blaming the republicans (who merely went along with the Dems committing suicide), and wailing about votes not being counted...when they themselves orchestrated the fiasco. It was that point in time I realized just how corrupt the Fl Dem Party had become. Madfloridan covered this extensively in her blog, but few on DU were paying attention.

Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
9. OMG! No humor allowed! Get with the program!
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:47 PM
Jun 2015

I heard that Sesame Street had a whole program about the letter C. That must not stand!

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
17. You just keep digging deeper!
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 10:53 PM
Jun 2015

Everyone knows that line "The Devil Made Me Do It" was used by Flip Wilson dressed in drag as the character Geraldine. Oh! Oh! Oh! - that was disrespectful of women. That was, wait for it . . . . . . . .misogynistic!

But wait - that was also sort of early transgender, so maybe it was politically correct. I'm so confused! What's a poster to do? ! ? ! ?

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=Flip+Wilson+Geraldine&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002

 

Flying Squirrel

(3,041 posts)
47. I don't.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:41 AM
Jun 2015

I also don't believe one stupid incident of wordplay warrants an immediate ban of a progressive voice for seven years on DU, with no previous history in that regard, with not even a suspension and a chance to apologize.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
52. + a Brazilian
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:54 AM
Jun 2015

The teeth of the self-appointed "misogyny police" need to be drawn and now. They cannot be allowed to turn this site into a place where every poster needs to walk on eggs in order they aren't hurting the widdle feews of someone in a disproportioally powerful and seemingly influential clique.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
110. Awww, upset that you can't call Hillary the
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:38 PM
Jun 2015

c-word here lest the mean old "misogynist police" get you?

The Internet is a big place. Surely you can find a place where there are no "misogyny police" (namely EarlG) and you can call her the c-word all you want.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
113. Hardly. That is a word I do not use
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:58 PM
Jun 2015

here or anywhere. I have a rich and imaginative vocabulary for expressing contempt that does not need to include vulgarity.

I have been around DU for the better part of ten years and have seen people swarm-attacked, alert-stalked and generally harassed by a certain clique here that parses seemingly every post to see if there is something they can use as a justification for bogus outrage; I have been in their crosshairs more than a few times because I have dared to disagree (!) with them.

Nice try. Fail.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
59. It actually was and he said "it"
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:41 AM
Jun 2015

was a yada yada, not SHE was a yada yada. It doesn't even make grammatical sense to interpret it as such.

Whatever.

 

Flying Squirrel

(3,041 posts)
60. I was referring to the fact
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:43 AM
Jun 2015

That he was most likely just referencing the ban of NYC_SKP in the same way I just did, probably for the same reason. If you're trying to draw something out of me, good luck with that.

Response to Post removed (Reply #6)

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
19. I am shocked!
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:00 PM
Jun 2015

Casablanca (1942) Quotes on IMDb: ... Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! [a croupier hands Renault a pile of money].

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
31. Sexist post.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:54 PM
Jun 2015

You think you're so clever to have called Hillary "a little B" and gotten away with it. If you meant Backstabber, you should have said backstabber instead of "little B." "Little B" connotes something very different. And you know it. That's why you did it.

Cha

(297,100 posts)
70. At least this got a hide.. so clever. not.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:56 AM
Jun 2015
"I remember.... she was a real c.....
........campaigner"


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6787434

He had quite the show for those egging him on ..and then. Oooops.
 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
74. Deleted. sorry
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 06:39 AM
Jun 2015

I was responding in kind to a post calling her a c..... campaigner.

I should not have. I showed poor judgement and apologize.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
34. RESULTS OF JURY SERVICE --> 2-5 LEAVE IT
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 12:07 AM
Jun 2015

On Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:34 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

She was acting like a little B...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6787720

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

First we have one poster use c, with Clinton. Then this poster uses B, with Clinton. Our men on DU do not get to use misogyny to run this campaign. We already had one long timer get kick off for this childish giggle with misogynist slurs. Disruptive. Hurtful. Insensitive.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:43 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Calling the expression "backstabber" mysogynistic is way over the top. The word is in no way gender specific, used both on males and females equally. This new hyper-alert mode here is what is disruptive, hurtful and rude. It needs to stop!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with the alerter. I am sick of seeing these things posted about a female candidate. This needs to end now. Please hide this.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Completely agree with alerter. Childish and sexist post.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
43. Another example of our broken jury system.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:22 AM
Jun 2015

Juror #1 completely ignores that the poster called Hillary "a little B." The poster blatantly copied the same silly, childish sexist style of a post he was replying to, a post that was hidden by a bare 4-3 vote because it called Hillary "a little C... " The juror completely ignored that the poster called Hillary "a little B" and said, feigning stupidity, that the poster was only calling her a "backstabber." And then has the nerve to take it further and claim it was the alert that was "hurtful and rude."

No, Juror 1, calling a woman a "backstabber" or a "campaigner" is not mysogynistic. Calling a woman "a little C" or "a little B" is.

Truly disgusting to see on a progressive discussion board.


treestar

(82,383 posts)
79. Agree Juror 1 is being disingenuous
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 07:53 AM
Jun 2015

As are those who keep arguing the spoonerism was not meant to invoke another slur.

 

LordGlenconner

(1,348 posts)
105. Hillary supporters won't be winning many jury votes
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:43 PM
Jun 2015

Moving forward. DU is more or less dominated by Bernie devotees and they serve on juries. The only reason what's his name got the boot for the c word thing was because it was done by an admin. Had that post been left up to the jury system it would have never happened.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
111. Not Bernie devotees. People who genuinely admire
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:41 PM
Jun 2015

Bernie and his values don't accept misogyny. Team Hillary Hate, on the other hand, ...

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
49. That this was alerted on
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:45 AM
Jun 2015

Is yet more proof that there needs to be a flushing of our Augean stables. The censorious tail is perilously close to wagging the DU dog and it is time to do something decisive about it.

murielm99

(30,730 posts)
53. So what would you do?
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:05 AM
Jun 2015

Ban anyone who supports Hillary for President, or defends her here? Ban anyone who criticizes others for name-calling?

Let's do something "decisive"? I think you need to elaborate.

This place is dangerously close to being out of control. And I think Bernie would be very upset by some of the things his supporters are saying here.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
61. No one. Straw man.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:44 AM
Jun 2015

Too many think it's "their turn" and can't abide that a black man beat their chosen one to the WH. Flame away.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
84. What offends me is the hypocrisy.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:51 AM
Jun 2015

If I even got in the same area code as calling an African American the n word on this board I would have my account terminated and rightfully so but some of the denizens of this board seem to want to use ugly sexist imagery with impunity.


cloudythescribbler

(2,586 posts)
7. Hillary was just trying to win
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:37 PM
Jun 2015

I supported Obama strongly in the primaries, starting BO (before Oprah) to donate periodically, mainly in the HOPE that he would not turn out to be a neoliberal like the Clintons. This was true before I seriously thought he could win (yes, there was a time). I support Bernie, confident that he can't win for the same reason as the early Barack, more confident also that Bernie though endorsing the nominee will not abandon 'Democratic wing of the Democratic Party' politics as Howard Dean has at least in part.

That said, Hillary was just fighting to win. Obama was more honorable, but also more astute a politician -- he was exactly what I thought the 'best realistically possible' president to elect might be. I am disappointed but not surprised by his neoliberalism from drones to theHonduras coup to the TPP to what I call his 'leave it to Uighurs' attitude on so much else. Still, like Hillary he is miles better than the clown circus called the Republican Party. Now GOPers eg on Bill Maher have argued that in trying to stifle voting rights and obstruct constituencies that vote mostly Democratic they are just playing to win -- but I see a massive difference here and do NOT feel that the Democrats even begin to do the same with the GOP.

Just my two cents

merrily

(45,251 posts)
37. EVERYone is "just trying to win." Duh.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 12:17 AM
Jun 2015

How someone conducts himself or herself matters. Ethics, rules, laws, matter. At least to some. Especially when you seek the job of chief executive of the United States.

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
11. Like for example -
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:50 PM
Jun 2015

making an issue of Obama's middle name? If memory serves, that Hussein b.s. didn't originate with the right wing, but they took the ball and ran with it.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
40. Dog whistles by the campaign and its surrogates in general.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:01 AM
Jun 2015

Last edited Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:54 AM - Edit history (1)

Bill, Robert Johnson, Andrew Cuomo, Ferrara, leaks to media, etc. By the time the campaign got desperate enough to involve Hillary herself, it was beyond dog whistle:

“I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on,” she said in an interview with USA TODAY. As evidence, Clinton cited an Associated Press article “that found how Sen. Obama’s support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.”

“There’s a pattern emerging here,” she said.


https://libertystreet.wordpress.com/2008/05/08/hillary-clinton-hard-working-americans-are-white-americans/

video at link

Clinton's blunt remarks about race came a day after primaries in Indiana and North Carolina dealt symbolic and mathematical blows to her White House ambitions.

POLITICS BLOG: Blogosphere is buzzing

The Obama campaign, looking toward locking up the nomination, stepped up pressure on superdelegates who have the decisive votes in their race.

In both states, Clinton won six of 10 white voters, according to surveys of people as they left polling places.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said that in Indiana, Obama split working-class voters with Clinton and won a higher percentage of white voters than in Ohio in March. He said Obama will be the strongest nominee because he appeals "to Americans from every background and all walks of life. These statements from Sen. Clinton are not true and frankly disappointing."


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-07-clintoninterview_N.htm



edgineered

(2,101 posts)
10. One quickly learns on recruiting duty that putting someone on the schedule
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:50 PM
Jun 2015

is not the same as recruiting. When it becomes easier for the prospect to promise a meeting than to convince you that he is not interested, that is the route he will take. For similar reasons I would be afraid to state any opposition to some groups, issues, and candidates here. It's much easier to quietly watch.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
13. I remember that time very well.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 10:28 PM
Jun 2015

I recall her primary campaigning in Mississippi and Alabama. It was broadcast live on C-Span.

it's a memory I cannot wipe from my mind especially when she "speaks" to a Southern Black audience.

I can't possibly describe that experience with any level of accuracy. Supporters would do well to search C-Span's archives for HRC's appearances of her primary campaign stops.

It's a real eye opener.

rock

(13,218 posts)
18. Yes, I remember it very well, thanks for reminding me!
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 10:54 PM
Jun 2015

Rather than tear the Democratic Party apart once Obama had a very slight edge she bravely took the statesman's view and ceded the nomination. I can't rightly think of a time when a politician has made such a political sacrifice of their own interests for the sake of her party and thereby for the society at large. Here's to you Hillary!

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
21. These parlor debates and rehashing of old topic is making me somnolent.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:06 PM
Jun 2015

Wake me up when the Republicants pick Hillary's challenger.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
80. LOL, good one. She continued the primary long after she had a mathematical chance of winning.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:19 AM
Jun 2015

forcing Obama to continue the primary campaign, with all the time, money and effort that entailed, instead of going full bore against McCain. Meanwhile, McCain had clinched the Republican nomination early, so extending the Democratic primary gave him a double edge. Not to mention that Hillary had said on national TV that McCain and she were ready for that am phone call, but Obama was not.

Mercifully, McCain was capable of blowing every advantage.

rock

(13,218 posts)
126. LOL, but not as good as you
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 08:41 AM
Jun 2015

Google is your friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2008
You can plainly see from the information provided that provided you were willing to tear the party apart and in fact weaken the support that Obama would ultimately receive in the general that Hillary assessed her position and did what was best for the country.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
138. She did what was best for her career.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 01:47 PM
Jun 2015

And then leveraged that into a Sec. of State position.

If she had torn the party apart then she would not be in the running now.

Her decision was not selfless.


 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
122. Pure fantasy.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 06:56 AM
Jun 2015

The very fact that you need to misrepresent her behavior shows that you are on the wrong side here. If you were honest about this you would be critical of her too.







 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
24. I do, and the dog-whistling
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:26 PM
Jun 2015

was revolting. Someone posted KO's Special Comments about them in the last few days. Keith was right.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
25. You do NOT want to get me started on the 08 primary fiascos.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:26 PM
Jun 2015

I could write a book. In fact if my posts were lined up in a row it would be a book. Not a very good one, but a long one.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
30. Trust me when I say you do not want to go there.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:51 PM
Jun 2015

Can't decide which was worse, 04 or 08 primaries. Both very rough.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
39. I have a taste for weird reading
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 12:57 AM
Jun 2015

And movies. Big David Lynch fan. And like the late great Hunter Thompson said, when the going gets weird the weird turn pro.

I was here in '08 under a different handle. Wasn't banned, just forgot the password. I was an Obama supporter and remember it all too vividly.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
48. I was a big Obama supporter then too.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:42 AM
Jun 2015

I remember it. And it was weird. I haven't forgotten it. But I don't dislike Hillary now as much as I did then. I guess time have softened my feelings, and I think she's gone a long way to patch things up. I know you probably disagree with me on this, but that's okay.

A couple of things you might enjoy. The book The Boys on the Bus by Timothy Crouse, about the 1972 media coverage of McGovern. It's a nice companion to Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail. Talks about Thompson too, Crouse respected him. Also, if you haven't seen Big Eyes by Tim Burton yet, I highly recommend it. I'm a big Lynch fan too.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
29. Madfloridan, you did an epic job reporting on the '08 primaries.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:46 PM
Jun 2015

In particular, in exposing the Florida sham primary and who was responsible.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
54. Thanks. FL was a mess.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:14 AM
Jun 2015

Things were just in shambles. So much tension. All the Dem leadership hated Dean and never got over it.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
119. Yes I do.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 06:32 AM
Jun 2015

I believe that the past is prologue.

We should all revisit the '08 primaries before nominating our candidate for 2016. The same type of mistakes may be made again, but this time after we have our nominee, and that could be disastrous.


6chars

(3,967 posts)
131. He knows politics is a bit of a rough game
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 09:39 AM
Jun 2015

and wanted her capabilities on his team. Really, is it better to have a candidate who, for the sake of unity, is not going to fight to win? Not to rehash another bad memory, but I remember 2000.

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
36. I voted "uncommitted" too.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 12:10 AM
Jun 2015

But I thought it said, "other."

And was furious when, after telling Michigan voters that the primary votes would not be counted for our state, the Clinton people put up a big stink because they wanted ALL our votes at the convention.

The DNC wisely distributed the votes among all the candidates, even though they weren't listed on the ballot - mainly because the Primary was held in January and we didn't have permission to have it then, and we had been warned that our votes would not count no matter who they were for.

What a mess that was. Granholm was a strong supporter and I think the invalid election was held to make sure that Mrs. Clinton did not come out other than first. They could not rely on an honest primary that might have been embarrassing for them.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
42. Oh please, here comes the bull crap again.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:10 AM
Jun 2015

Hillary would have easily won Florida.

Yeah, I remember 2008. Obama was treated as the second coming of the Lord and Hillary was continually trashed by an adoring Obama media and mesmerized supporters who kept fainting at his rallies. Does anyone remember the time that Obama sneezed and wiped his nose and people clapped as if it had been some momentous event? It would have been funny if it hadn't been so ridiculous.




One more thing, to the male commenters who think that it's very funny to imply that Hillary is a bit.. and a cu.. STOP IT!!! As a woman, I find offensive such terms being used to address other women. Particularly someone who in all probability will be the Democratic nominee. Someone who was the first lady of the nation, a US senator, a SOS and may yet become president. Have a little more respect. How would you like if someone used those terms to address your mothers, sisters and daughters? In a progressive site women shouldn't be called sexist and derogatory names. Not that it surprises me. One thing I did learn from the 2008 election. There are as many sexist liberals as there are conservatives.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
45. Thank you.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:31 AM
Jun 2015

I'm just revolted by the derogatory names that Hillary has been called in a so called progressive site. I can understand political differences, but the sexist name calling has got to stop. It's not just a slap on the face to her, but to women in general.

I'm a woman first, political affiliation comes second. I do not appreciate hearing other women being called names just because some folks disagree with that person's politics.


DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
56. I'm a woman first, political affiliation comes second.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:20 AM
Jun 2015

OK, I can understand that. How will you prevent the GOP from exploiting that to exploit women? Yes, Sarah Palin was a misfire, but when you have GOP governors like Susannah Martinez, Nikki Haley, Jan Brewer tuning up for Veep Spots, how do we attack that they will say "well I AM a woman" to hide the fact they are going after women?

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
89. NO woman should be called sexist names, regardless of their politics.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:27 PM
Jun 2015

When Sarah Palin was in the running, I read plenty of sexist comments here and on other sites. I didn't agree with them either. There's a huge difference between having political differences and insulting a woman based on her gender. I don't care if it's the devil incarnate, no woman should be called the "C" word. Would it be acceptable if Obama was called the "N" word by his opponents? Of course not. Then why should it be OK to address a woman in a similar offensive matter? Why is it that racist remarks are immediately tamped down, but sexist remarks are poo pooed? That was one bitter lesson from 2008. A woman, no matter how accomplished, will always be judged on her gender first. What's more pathetic than the men doing it, were the inane comments by women reporters and pundits. MSNBC and FOX were particularly egregious in that respect. I haven't watched MSNBC since 2008. Fox it goes without saying.......

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
90. not the question
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:28 PM
Jun 2015

In my journal, I have stated that nobody should be called a slur ever, not just because it is a lousy thing to do, but also, in the long run, it is damaging. I will re-phrase the question: how do we prevent the GOP candidates that are women from using their gender to hide the fact they are supporting a party that is bad for all women?

and while this part is true:

A woman, no matter how accomplished, will always be judged on her gender first.

The same can be said of race. Obama will be judged as black first, especially as people will attack him with a freedom that would NEVER have done to Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
64. I saw a poll on DU from back then where you said you absolutly would not vote for Nominee Obama
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:00 AM
Jun 2015

What made you change your mind?

Cha

(297,100 posts)
72. President Obama was an amazing candidate and then won the Presidency and chose Hillary as his
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 05:03 AM
Jun 2015

first SOS.. as we all know.

Now here we all are again with Hillary running.. and I wish her well.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
115. You said it..........
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:42 PM
Jun 2015

I guess trying to win on their candidate's merits is not enough, so they'll try to soil Hillary along the way.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
125. We want to avoid making the same mistakes again
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 07:02 AM
Jun 2015

because this time they could easily happen after we have our nominee.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
83. There has not been a more stalwart supporter of President Obama on this board than me
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:44 AM
Jun 2015

There has not been a more stalwart supporter of President Obama on this board than me but HRC was, is, and always will be hugely popular among Florida Democrats and I look forward to that proposition being tested in the upcoming Florida primary.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
87. Exactly.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:13 PM
Jun 2015

I lived in Florida, my mother continued to live there for decades. As a matter of fact, I just returned from FL on Thursday. Florida would have gone to Hillary regardless of whether the DNC wanted to validate those votes or not.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
94. But she would have lost Michigan.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:50 PM
Jun 2015

~40% voted uncommitted just to make a statement that they/we didn't want her to have those delegates.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
98. There would have been more, but many didn't turn out
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:55 PM
Jun 2015

because they were told the vote meant nothing.

That ~40% was an anti-Hillary vote.


akbacchus_BC

(5,704 posts)
51. I do, she went viral on President Obama as did her husband!
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:54 AM
Jun 2015

Am not an American and if I could vote, I never would vote for her.

We are viewing some thoughts from her, Rice and Albright as a lunch and learn at work. Needless to say, all those three women makes me want to puke. Since when Rice is an advocate for women's rights?

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
55. As a Florida Voter
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:16 AM
Jun 2015

I remember when Hillary railed on us with sound and fury, before Florida voters voted for her. Then the chant became "count our votes!"

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
75. Despite all the Cardinals successes I will never forget that series.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 07:07 AM
Jun 2015

A displaced Cards fan here in DC.

Warpy

(111,236 posts)
66. My complaint about her behavior
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:09 AM
Jun 2015

was that she didn't can her campaign handlers the second it became clear that their ideas were losing her the nomination, something that happened fairly early.

Clinging to bad staffers is not a good quality when you're trying to get the job of running the country. Bad staffers can do a lot of damage.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
68. Spot on
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:25 AM
Jun 2015

And she seems to be repeating the same mistake this time already.

Her IWR vote is a perfect example. I think she knew pretty quickly that was a bad vote but felt it would make her look weak politically if she didn't hold onto it. She held on way to long to that one and I think it made a big difference for her in the primaries with Obama. Only to finally give in after the election.

She seems to do this sort of thing a lot.

Having said that I also find it one of the most appealing things about her. She is a fighter and will stand up to withering scrutiny even when the tide is clearly against her once she makes the calculation. I admire the strength she has shown over the years through many controversies.

There is no doubt in my mind she would stand up to the pressures of the office, and while I might not agree with her on everything I think on balance she would be a very competent president.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
128. Like 8 days for "I didn't want to carry 2 phones"?
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 09:28 AM
Jun 2015

What nonsense. Nobody needs 2 phones for 2 email accounts and they didn't back when she became SOS either.

Maybe the problem isn't the staffers. She has only won 2 elections in her entire life and those were both the Senate seat she carpetbagged.

I think she is a terrible candidate, always has been and always will be. I just wish others would figure it out before the nomination is given to her like some kind of door prize.


DCBob

(24,689 posts)
73. Yeah.. it was despicable at times but I've forgiven her.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 06:24 AM
Jun 2015

It was a hard core politics and candidates often do and say crazy things during tough campaigns.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
130. Our odds of winning are much much better with Hillary than anyone else running on the Dem side.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 09:38 AM
Jun 2015

imo.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
133. I disagree
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 10:39 AM
Jun 2015

My opinion is that she is a terrible candidate who will make another insane statement like running from sniper fire, and then stick with that falsehood over and over and over again until she is forced to finally admit she was wrong. Then she will try to excuse it by saying something like "I misspoke, I say millions of words a day and some are wrong".

If she could fall apart like that in a primary battle (and she did) then how do you expect her to keep it together in the General?




Please keep in mind, this is not an attack ad (yet). It is a news story.




My favorite line "all this experience she has been talking about is at least partially her imagination".

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
136. And yet with all these "terrible" faults...
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 01:29 PM
Jun 2015

she still nearly won. She has a strong loyal following that I believe is even stronger this time around.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
137. I believe it is a mile wide and an inch deep.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 01:44 PM
Jun 2015

and she didn't nearly win. 33 contests v 23 contests (including caucuses and territories)

Delegate count was 2285.5 to 1973 and that was even with the FL and MI delegates being counted as half when she agreed that they would not be counted at all. So this total is horribly slanted in her favor. Even then she got ~46.3% and he got ~53.6 (unless my math is off, feel free to double check me).


A ~7.3% loss isn't nearly winning.



DCBob

(24,689 posts)
140. The difference was the caucus states..
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:18 PM
Jun 2015

which was more a strategic mistake than anything. Furthermore she was up against the most inspiring candidate since Kennedy. The Republicans have nothing like that. Pretty sure she will win.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
141. Unless she claims to have dodged sniper fire...
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:27 PM
Jun 2015

..or to have been broke when her/their net worth was around 6 million dollars.. or to invoke the murder of RFK as some reason to not give up hope on her... or something even worse.

Or makes another fatal strategic mistake.


She has almost no experience running for office. She has proven herself to be a terrible candidate.

We can do better.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
142. There is no one better running.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:13 PM
Jun 2015

I won't bash Bernie but just to say he is a very weak national candidate.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
143. At this point, wasn't Obama in about the same boat?
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:49 PM
Jun 2015

Lets hold off judgement on who is better until we get a couple debates behind us, shall we?


Edit to add: Since you didn't respond to my comment that she didn't just barely lose I am assuming that you agree with my statement. How can you assert that she is such a strong candidate when you agree that, even with the advantages she had, she lost decisively the last time around?


tridim

(45,358 posts)
77. Nothing was nastier than PUMA in 2008.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 07:47 AM
Jun 2015

It was 100% negative and a massive turn-off. Their efforts made me realize that Senator Clinton should not be our party's nominee.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
85. I do. It was pretty bad, and I was upset about it.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:58 AM
Jun 2015

To Hillary's credit, though, instead of holding a grudge, she vigorously campaigned for Obama during the GE. And Obama didn't hold a grudge either. So neither do I.

And the most important thing is, we need to keep the White House in 2016. Which means we need Hillary to win.

Hekate

(90,627 posts)
88. Jesus. Who remembers that she and Obama buried the hatchet and went on to work quite well together?
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:21 PM
Jun 2015

It's called politics, the adult version thereof.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
95. I am speaking to her manipulation of the voters
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:51 PM
Jun 2015

not about her personal relationship with President Obama.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
101. I remember quite well.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:15 PM
Jun 2015

AND the lessons taught by both the winner and loser of that primary. Those memories are being applied to every political choice I make for the rest of my life.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
109. I remember it quite well and I'll repeat what I wrote on this very board at the time:
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:32 PM
Jun 2015

Supporting Hillary Clinton's campaign for president was the proudest experience of my life.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
112. Oh yes, I remember those days well.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:54 PM
Jun 2015

It demonstrated 2 different characters definitely.

Since that primary I have admired Obama's "cool".

I may dislike to quite degree how neoliberal his
policies turned out, but I still admire his coolness.

He almost, just almost lost it in his fight with
EW though.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,336 posts)
127. I voted "uncommitted" in MI, as John Edwards wasn't on the ballot ...
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 09:13 AM
Jun 2015

... this was before he became "that" John Edwards.

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