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Tue May 19, 2015, 06:21 AM

I’ve Read Obama’s Secret Trade Deal. Elizabeth Warren Is Right to Be Concerned.

I’ve Read Obama’s Secret Trade Deal. Elizabeth Warren Is Right to Be Concerned.
by Michael Wessel
5/19/2015



You need to tell me what’s wrong with this trade agreement, not one that was passed 25 years ago,” a frustrated President Barack Obama recently complained about criticisms of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP). He’s right. The public criticisms of the TPP have been vague. That’s by design—anyone who has read the text of the agreement could be jailed for disclosing its contents. I’ve actually read the TPP text provided to the government’s own advisors, and I’ve given the president an earful about how this trade deal will damage this nation. But I can’t share my criticisms with you.

I can tell you that Elizabeth Warren is right about her criticism of the trade deal. We should be very concerned about what's hidden in this trade deal—and particularly how the Obama administration is keeping information secret even from those of us who are supposed to provide advice.

So-called “cleared advisors” like me are prohibited from sharing publicly the criticisms we’ve lodged about specific proposals and approaches. The government has created a perfect Catch 22: The law prohibits us from talking about the specifics of what we’ve seen, allowing the president to criticize us for not being specific. Instead of simply admitting that he disagrees with me—and with many other cleared advisors—about the merits of the TPP, the president instead pretends that our specific, pointed criticisms don’t exist.

What I can tell you is that the administration is being unfair to those who are raising proper questions about the harms the TPP would do. To the administration, everyone who questions their approach is branded as a protectionist—or worse—dishonest. They broadly criticize organized labor, despite the fact that unions have been the primary force in America pushing for strong rules to promote opportunity and jobs. And they dismiss individuals like me who believe that, first and foremost, a trade agreement should promote the interests of domestic producers and their employees.

....Snip....

...On this count, the current TPP doesn’t measure up. And nothing being considered by Congress right now would ensure that the TPP meets the goal of promoting domestic production and job creation.

Please read entire article(!)~
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html



*Michael Wessel has been involved in trade policy for almost 40 years. He served as trade policy adviser to the Kerry-Edwards campaign & Obama's 2008 campaign.

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Reply I’ve Read Obama’s Secret Trade Deal. Elizabeth Warren Is Right to Be Concerned. (Original post)
RiverLover May 2015 OP
joshcryer May 2015 #1
Koinos May 2015 #2
cali May 2015 #3
Demeter May 2015 #6
cali May 2015 #9
cascadiance May 2015 #11
MissDeeds May 2015 #22
rtracey May 2015 #48
pangaia May 2015 #58
rtracey May 2015 #86
pangaia May 2015 #88
rtracey May 2015 #110
LondonReign2 May 2015 #119
rtracey May 2015 #142
LondonReign2 May 2015 #167
cui bono May 2015 #144
rtracey May 2015 #168
cui bono May 2015 #169
lark May 2015 #96
MissDeeds May 2015 #109
rtracey May 2015 #111
Thespian2 May 2015 #64
Autumn May 2015 #69
Rockyj May 2015 #143
Thespian2 May 2015 #147
Jackpine Radical May 2015 #85
rhett o rick May 2015 #146
whereisjustice May 2015 #161
Sobax May 2015 #52
truedelphi May 2015 #148
randys1 May 2015 #102
cali May 2015 #130
randys1 May 2015 #131
RiverLover May 2015 #8
daleanime May 2015 #18
jalan48 May 2015 #108
BeyondGeography May 2015 #4
cali May 2015 #5
BeyondGeography May 2015 #33
cali May 2015 #38
bvar22 May 2015 #97
joshcryer May 2015 #7
cali May 2015 #10
joshcryer May 2015 #27
ucrdem May 2015 #12
cali May 2015 #13
ucrdem May 2015 #16
sufrommich May 2015 #19
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NRaleighLiberal May 2015 #20
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cali May 2015 #30
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LondonReign2 May 2015 #120
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zentrum May 2015 #35
RiverLover May 2015 #76
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kenfrequed May 2015 #42
peacebird May 2015 #43
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peacebird May 2015 #51
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cali May 2015 #46
BeyondGeography May 2015 #54
JEB May 2015 #83
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MrMickeysMom May 2015 #47
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MrMickeysMom May 2015 #138
randome May 2015 #59
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RiverLover May 2015 #74
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JDPriestly May 2015 #87
RiverLover May 2015 #100
randome May 2015 #124
RiverLover May 2015 #154
ismnotwasm May 2015 #93
dpatbrown May 2015 #95
99th_Monkey May 2015 #103
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randome May 2015 #112
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MisterP May 2015 #114
RiverLover May 2015 #166
colsohlibgal May 2015 #115
ismnotwasm May 2015 #128
Sobax May 2015 #141
giftedgirl77 May 2015 #159
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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:34 AM

1. Wessel should hit up Wikileaks.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:47 AM

2. K & R

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:50 AM

3. just read the entire piece. thanks so much for posting this.

 

This is a very, very damning piece. And sadly, it's most damning as concerns the President. His dishonesty around the tpp is both baffling and disturbing.

It appears to me that the President has become so invested in getting this piece of shit through, that he's lost all perspective.

More:

The text of the TPP, like all trade deals, is a closely guarded secret. That fact makes a genuine public debate impossible and should make robust debate behind closed doors all the more essential. But the ability of TPP critics like me to point out the deal’s many failings is limited by the government’s surprising and unprecedented refusal to make revisions to the language in the TPP fully available to cleared advisors.

Bill Clinton didn’t operate like this. During the debate on NAFTA, as a cleared advisor for the Democratic leadership, I had a copy of the entire text in a safe next to my desk and regularly was briefed on the specifics of the negotiations, including counterproposals made by Mexico and Canada. During the TPP negotiations, the United States Trade Representative (USTR) has never shared proposals being advanced by other TPP partners. Today’s consultations are, in many ways, much more restrictive than those under past administrations.

All advisors, and any liaisons, are required to have security clearances, which entail extensive paperwork and background investigations, before they are able to review text and participate in briefings. But, despite clearances, and a statutory duty to provide advice, advisors do not have access to all the materials that a reasonable person would need to do the job. The negotiators provide us with “proposals” but those are merely initial proposals to trading partners. We are not allowed to see counter-proposals from our trading partners. Often, advisors are provided with updates indicating that the final text will balance all appropriate stakeholder interests but we frequently receive few additional details beyond that flimsy assurance.

Those details have enormous repercussions. For instance, rules of origin specify how much of a product must originate within the TPP countries for the resulting product to be eligible for duty-free treatment. These are complex rules that decide where a company will manufacture its products and where is will purchase raw materials. Under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), 62.5 percent of a car needed to originate within NAFTA countries. In the US-Australia Free Trade Agreement, it was lowered to 50 percent. It further dropped to 35 percent in the US-Korea Free Trade Agreement (KORUS). In essence, under our agreement with Korea, 65 percent of a car from South Korea could be made from Chinese parts and still qualify for duty-free treatment when exported to the U.S.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html#ixzz3aa2wEinC

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Response to cali (Reply #3)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:59 AM

6. After 6+ years of Obama dishonesty, you should be accustomed to it by now

 

Wake up and smell the BS.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #6)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:05 AM

9. this is different from any behavior he's exhibited in the past.

 

It's much more extreme and in your face. I'm not interested terribly in why he's doing this; that he's shoving this piece of shit through and using every tool in the presidential toolbox to do it, speaks for itself.

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Response to cali (Reply #9)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:09 AM

11. He just better be sure he locks in a good retirement job, as his "legacy" is turning to SHIT now!

 

... if he keeps pushing this shit through congress!

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Response to cascadiance (Reply #11)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:32 AM

22. His legacy is shot

 

Last edited Tue May 19, 2015, 10:51 AM - Edit history (1)

He ran as one kind of candidate and governed as the opposite. So much for "transparency in government".

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Response to MissDeeds (Reply #22)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:57 AM

48. Bullshit

 

His legacy will be ACA, and the millions getting healthcare for the first time, marriage equality (when it becomes constitutional, and it will), bringing this country back from the brink of total disaster, fighting the GOB lead Congress, having them do NOTHING for him and he STILL got things done. That will be his legacy. I will support his legacy, and all the nah sayers can go f themselves, or would we want him to have the Bush legacy?

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Response to rtracey (Reply #48)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:17 AM

58. So you are telling me to go fuck myself because I may not agree with you?

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Response to pangaia (Reply #58)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:50 AM

86. Maybe

 

Perhaps, but perhaps if you believe the legacy of this president is just a bad TPP, then you really are not much of a supporter.

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Response to rtracey (Reply #86)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:42 PM

88. So you are MAYBE telling me to go fuck myself.

PERHAPS, or... perhaps not.

Well are you or not?

I don't care about legacies, or whatever.
But the TPP , from what I can see reading people who seem to know, is a fucking disaster for human beings. and Obama sure looks like he wants.

So, I should go fuck myself?
whomever..

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Response to pangaia (Reply #88)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:39 PM

110. Hmmmm

 

Read the post.... here maybe I can spell it out for you.... IF YOU THINK THAT HISTORY WILL REMEMBER THE OBAMA PRESIDENCY FOR FOR JUST THE TPP ( WHICH HAS NOT BEEN PASSED YET), AND THAT IS ALL, THEN YOU ARE NOT MUCH OF A SUPPORTER OR DEMOCRAT.
Oh but just my opinion.....

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Response to rtracey (Reply #110)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:05 PM

119. "NOT MUCH OF A SUPPORTER"

Well gosh, that sure is going to sting....

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Response to LondonReign2 (Reply #119)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:27 PM

142. psssh

 

whatever......go vote for Carly

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Response to rtracey (Reply #142)

Wed May 20, 2015, 11:22 AM

167. Right, because logically if you are against the TPP

you must support Fiorina...who supports the TPP.

In the immortal words of Dean Wormer, "....stupid is no way to go through life, son."

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Response to rtracey (Reply #110)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:01 PM

144. Well you seem to only care about the ACA and stated as much in a previous post.

Saying that his legacy will be the ACA and that's good enough for you. So maybe you should heed your own words since you care so much more about how you define one man's legacy and defending what that will be than you do about the entire human race.

And that means you are not much of a citizen, much less a compassionate human being.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #144)

Wed May 20, 2015, 12:09 PM

168. well

 

Well if you are talking about me and my original post, you are incorrect...here, I will copy and paste....."His legacy will be ACA, and the millions getting healthcare for the first time, marriage equality (when it becomes constitutional, and it will), bringing this country back from the brink of total disaster, fighting the GOB lead Congress, having them do NOTHING for him and he STILL got things done."

I mentioned ACA, marriage equality, bring the country back from the brink of disaster, fighting the GOP congress without much help and still getting things done.

The whole point of my original post is this... if you believe in it or not, I really don't give a crap. His legacy as president will not be remembered for JUST TPP, like many think. TPP has not even passed yet, and may not pass ever. His legacy...oh of course I cant forget IMO, (or the whole forum will come apart), will be the first black man to be elected president twice, how he championed Affordable Care for the millions who didn't have it, how he was the first president to truly support same-sex marriage, the president that actually wasn't afraid to go after and get Bin Laden, the president that helped save this country from economic disaster, the president that held office with 50 months + of job growth....these are my and many of my DEMOCRAT friends thoughts of his legacy... Yes, now the right will remember him for the drones, the birth certificate, the fact he was black, their lies about Kenya, Muslim, Hater in Chief, IRAQ, SYRIA, Benghazi, Iranian nuclear treaty, etc..... you can believe what you want....

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Response to rtracey (Reply #168)

Wed May 20, 2015, 01:31 PM

169. So you think I believe the RW smears?

And really, you lump in drones with the right wing? Liberals are against his increased drone use. That is not a right wing issue. I know many on here like to say that since Rand Paul spoke out about it, but even libertarians are right about some issues.

The way you just posted now and before, you seem to be trying to make is seem that anyone who criticizes Obama and thinks the TPP stinks and wonders why he is pushing for it so hard is akin to right wing nutjobs.

So my question to you is, why is Obama pushing something those nutjobs want so badly? Why does he have many more Con backers than Dem backers on the TPP? And why did you say "DEMOCRAT friends" instead of "DEMOCRATIC friends"? There is a group of people that drop the "ic" and it ain't liberals.

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Response to rtracey (Reply #86)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:04 PM

96. Maybe he's not a blind robot

ignoring reality and loving the president, despite his betrayals?

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Response to lark (Reply #96)


Response to lark (Reply #96)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:44 PM

111. yes

 

oh yes you are correct.... I tend to attempt to look at the whole picture, not just one aspect.

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Response to rtracey (Reply #48)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:30 AM

64. Forgot a few things...

ACA is still an insurance controlled system...insurance companies still ration medical care...Obama would not fight for single-payer...

His ongoing drone program is highly successful at murdering people...innocent people...

He ran the economy by appointing Bush's failed leaders...Geithner, Summers, etc...

He gave trillions to big banks...the same ones who crashed the economy and are on the way to doing it again...

These are parts of his "Legacy"...I'm tired of the horse in the room...

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Response to Thespian2 (Reply #64)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:43 AM

69. A legacy is just a silly word supporters use.

Every president has a legacy just by virtue of being elected President The money they know they will make out of office is the real legacy.
I got to say your post nailed it.

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Response to Thespian2 (Reply #64)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:57 PM

143. Here! Here!

I'm so tired of the Obama apologists; my favorite progressive radio hosts are ignoring the topic of TPP. He could have rejected Keystone XL years ago but he's let it go on. We were snookered! At least we have Senator Bernie Sanders, who is TRULY the REAL thing! WE need to vote out the neo liberal dems!

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Response to Rockyj (Reply #143)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:43 PM

147. A-men!!!

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Response to rtracey (Reply #48)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:35 AM

85. Health insurance is not the same thing as health care.

The people who can afford only the bottom-tier (Bronze) plan often can't use it because of high deductibles and co-pays. ACA is actually a Health Insurance Company Profitability Act, and they're already finding ways to chisel away at provisions such as the Prior Condition issue, are cleverly disguising their administrative costs as clinical expenses (charging you to review your case in search of grounds to deny payments).

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Response to rtracey (Reply #48)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:25 PM

146. You are giving him more credit than he deserves. He did little to advance marriage equality and

 

fought the legalization of marijuana and even made it very hard for the dispensing of medical marijuana. And you are totally ignoring his disasters. His legacy will be that he pardoned our war criminals and torturers. And if this TPP piece of crap gets passed and we sink to the level of a third world county, will also be his. He has ramped up the killing of people, many innocent with drones. That's got to be in the legacy. He has persecuted more whistle-blowers and journalists than all preceding presidents.

"and all the nah sayers can go f themselves," Please. Is that any way for a Democrat to speak?

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Response to rtracey (Reply #48)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:56 PM

161. ACA? No fucking way. Costs unchecked, 10s of millions took pay cut in terms of higher premiums

to pay for it. Including me. Why should I have to bear the costs of that program while once again the rich bear no sacrifice.

And fuck me for having a group plan. It's about the only benefit I have left after working 10-12 hrs a day, no pension plans, vacation becoming a thing of distant past since you'll get dinged, and jobs hemorrhaging to Asia.

Got relief with ACA? Great. many of us in middle class are paying for it with less pay while the rich walked away unscathed.

For my f-4 plan, on ACA $15,000 (w/o dental) as of a year ago. No idea what it is now.

So, that's what happened - he turned the middle class against itself while the rich are laughing their asses off.

Those numbers with ACA sound nice, but it won't be enough to stop the carnage if he doesn't stop sending jobs offshore.





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Response to MissDeeds (Reply #22)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:04 AM

52. +1

 

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Response to cali (Reply #9)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:24 PM

148. I don't think it is any more extreme than his letting Geithner, Bernanke and

Others inside the inner circle take over the entire American economy, leaving most people with only crumbs.

However, since most Americans have no ability to tear themselves away from their sports programs, celebrity TV reality shows etc, to figure out economic policies, I will say the TPP issue may be more in our face than the economic crimes the Administration has committed.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #6)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:21 PM

102. Why dont you list his lies for all of us, I for one would be interested in that.

Please dont waste valuable bandwidth with "You can keep your doctor"

that was not a lie, it was a statement of fact and belief at the time, not knowing people would buy junk insurance after he said that and BEFORE the law took effect.

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Response to randys1 (Reply #102)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:35 PM

130. you're actually comparing the right wing attack on the ACA

 

which I supported btw, with the left wing attack on this piece of shit? Wow. And do your own research. I've posted about his lies. So have others- you can start with his bullshit about how the tpp isn't secret- addressed right in the op by Wessel, ffs.

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Response to cali (Reply #130)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:37 PM

131. So the lies are limited to TPP? He has lied about specifics in the TPP?

I think the person I responded to was claiming Obama has lied on many occasions about many issues.

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Response to cali (Reply #3)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:02 AM

8. You're welcome cali. I'm just so grateful Wessel has written this piece.

It's been frustrating to have the president accuse people of playing politics when this is a very damaging deal and they're just trying to prevent it. They're actually representing We the People. But they're unable to give specifics of how it will hurt us because its classified. Its the president who is pulling the stunt here.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #8)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:28 AM

18. +1

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Response to cali (Reply #3)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:36 PM

108. The Clinton's have made $25 million in speaking engagements in the past 16 months alone.

I think Obama is looking for more than a college professorship in Constitutional law when he leaves office. Who can afford to pay someone $200,000 to $400,000 for a single speaking engagement? The answer? Not people working for minimum wage.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:54 AM

4. The process has blown up in the President's face

as much as anything. Give CEO's exponentially more access than elected representatives and the latter will not be pleased, especially when there are legitimate issues to be addressed. He will need to relent if this is to move forward.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Tue May 19, 2015, 06:59 AM

5. Alas, I suspect it will get shoved through as is- or ground out

 

if you prefer the sausage making metaphor.

and it's not only giving CEOs more access and input- it's that they are vastly in the majority compared to public interest groups and labor unions.

once trade promotion authority is passed, the tpp is assured passage. and odds are that this will all happen very swiftly.

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Response to cali (Reply #5)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:51 AM

33. He does have complexity on his side

The arguments against the deal are strong but arcane. The ordinary citizen will not get fired up about potential Dodd Frank infringements and compromised labor and environmental standards.

I suspect you're right about passage in the end. After which the President will have to pivot left and mend fences. What that means substantively, I don't know, but he does have some cleaning up to do.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #33)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:15 AM

38. you're right. this is not stuff that fires up most folks.

 

I suspect that that's one reason for opponents focusing on job loss and secrecy- when there are so many, arguably worse things about it.

I don't think that pivoting left is in the President's playbook at this point. I suppose he could block Keystone, but I don't see that happening.

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Response to cali (Reply #5)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:06 PM

97. If it gets pushed through,

..it will be with President Obama standing with Republicans and fighting the Democrats.
Somehow, this seems fitting.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:00 AM

7. I don't know about that.

The media isn't making a big fuss about it. Congress is forging ahead. There's no major public outcry over it (like there was SOPA or net neutrality).

I feel as if it's going to just go through without much fanfare (at least fast track).

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:06 AM

10. of course the media isn't making a big fuss about it. Their parent companies

 

are helping push the President's piece of dog shit deal through.

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Response to cali (Reply #10)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:35 AM

27. And the SOPA / net neutrality style fight?

I know net neutrality hardly made the news. SOPA got way more coverage because a lot of sites went down (including DU) for the protest.

The media can't be trusted for shit, that's a given. But it'd make a fuss if there was a SOPA style protest, no? It'd make a fuss if its phone lines and email servers were constantly hammered by people upset by non-coverage.

Seems that's not happening yet. I'm cynical it will happen. It's going to go to fast track, it'll be public for three months, and it'll pass without much fanfare, and no one will stop it.

Hope I'm wrong.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:11 AM

12. "But I can’t share my criticisms with you."

Would that it were so. I guess secrecy and sovereignty aren't having the intended effect and some fresh scandal is needed?

Insert ROFL emoticon here.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #12)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:15 AM

13. lol. care to comment on the actual charges that he makes?

 

psst: your comment makes no sense. not that that's any surprise at all. there is nothing that would sway you from your adorable loyalty to the President. ucrdem trusts President Obama 100%!. Fuck the evidence, fuck facts. urcrdem will stand strong with the President!

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Response to cali (Reply #13)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:21 AM

16. Basically he's complaining about the inconvenience involved in reviewing it.

Oh gee.

Bill Clinton didn’t operate like this. During the debate on NAFTA, as a cleared advisor for the Democratic leadership, I had a copy of the entire text in a safe next to my desk. . .

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html#ixzz3aaBMXZlS


My heart is breaking.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #16)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:28 AM

19. Are you sure you read the article?

He's very specific about some of the problems with the deal,including the shrinking percentage of product needed to qualify for duty free treatment originating from countries involved in the trade agreements.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #19)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:32 AM

21. What he says is that he doesn't know:

That fact is politically toxic, and for that reason, we should expect the TPP agreement to have higher standards. But will it reach the 62.5 percent NAFTA requirement? Or will it be only a slight improvement over KORUS? Without access to the final text of the agreement, it’s impossible to say.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html#ixzz3aaDIKRKI


Guess what. It isn't finished. Either that or he hasn't gotten around to reviewing the latest draft because Barack hasn't personally delivered a leather-bound copy.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #21)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:13 AM

56. Knows a hell of lot more than you

That much we do know.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #21)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:48 PM

91. No, he says that he can't share what he knows

And that even with the president, those supposed to be giving advice (as he is) on the deal are being marginalized and drummed out of the discussion!

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #21)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:27 PM

126. And how has KORUS turned out for the American working class?

KORUS was sold the same way Obama is attempting to peddle the TPP. And we can expect similar results; more jobs lost, more foreign imports, more corporate profits and jack shit for the working class. Obama. Seems to be practicing sleight hand; on one hand he shows us the Keystone stall and we "ohhh" and "ahhh," while the other hand opens up the Arctic to oil drilling. What a Shell game.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #16)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:29 AM

20. wow...you've really got nothing at all!

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #16)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:32 AM

24. bwahahahaha. cute cherry picking, loco,er I mean ucrdem. Here, Just for you:

 

love your total mendaciousness here. It's so... bald. No he is not talking about inconvenience. He's talking about unprecedented secrecy and deliberate obtruction of official advisers which makes it nigh on impossible for them to do their jobs. Hey, your adored President is lying- over and over.



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Response to cali (Reply #24)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:35 AM

26. It isn't "secret" just because he's too special to hie himself down to the basement

for a look-see.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #26)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:47 AM

30. you're makig things up again. His article makes it quite clear that he has

 

jumped through all the hoops and has read it.

do stop making stuff up, uc. Everyone sees throughyour disingenuous bull.

And if you are going to make stuff up, do try and be a bit cleverer at it.

At this point, you're just making folks:

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #26)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:20 AM

39. pathetic

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #26)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:50 PM

92. What is your position

With the chamber of commerce? I bet they pay you pretty well, huh?

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #26)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:11 PM

120. One of your dumber comments

in a very long string of dumb comments. Read the article. The author DID read it; he points out that it is illegal to actually discuss what he read.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #16)

Wed May 20, 2015, 09:49 PM

170. No, that's not what he's complaining about.

He is complaining that the Administration selectively references the text to build the case it wants, but doesn't allow its critics to tell what they know, citing "national security." If there really were national security concerns, members of the Administration could not reveal what was in the secret text "at will." That is not how national security works -- see David Petraeus if you need an example.

So the administration is using secrecy to hide information, pure and simple.

See also:

The World Intellectual Property Organization, for example, has published draft texts and has even Webcast negotiations. The European Commission is posting the text of its proposals online for the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership negotiations.

Even Robert Zoellick, who served as U.S. trade representative from 2001 to 2005, expressed surprise that the negotiating texts were not made more generally available. “I’m actually a big believer in the transparency of those arrangements, so I don’t know why they’ve been more restrictive,” he said at a speech at the Wilson Center in 2013.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/05/15/the-catch-22-of-trade-deals-done-in-secret/

3. Interim texts aren’t published for other important negotiations.

Yes they are. Here is the draft text for this year’s climate change conference in Paris (and I submit the future of the planet is more important than the US getting a 0.4% increment to GDP after ten years). Here is a draft text for the Doha round: Doha had a whole bunch of problems and collapsed, but I never heard anyone claim excessive transparency was one of them. And here is a draft text proposed by the EU in the EU-US Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) negotiations.

4. Don’t worry – we’ll see the agreed text at the end.

By which time it will be too late to amend it.

Source: http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/2015/05/five-arguments-against-the-self-defeating-secrecy-of-the-trans-pacific-partnership/

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #12)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:41 AM

29. I don't know Wessel's access level.

Sounds like he had to sign an NDA or some other confidentiality agreement to be able to read the text, thus, to release his doubts about TPP under his own name would be a breach of that. That does not preclude him from releasing his misgivings anonymously. Throw his writing through a text obfuscator if necessary.

That's what's so annoying about this to me, like the NSA, no one apparently thinks it's worth sticking their neck out there to drop a bombshell. The stuff we've seen so far is boilerplate trade stuff with some stuff we haven't tried before.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #29)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:49 AM

32. wrong. what stuff we haven't seen before? do tell.

 

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #29)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:27 PM

125. +100

That's what's so annoying about this to me, like the NSA, no one apparently thinks it's worth sticking their neck out there to drop a bombshell. The stuff we've seen so far is boilerplate trade stuff with some stuff we haven't tried before.

And this is exactly why we're in the spot we are. People are too scared or too self-interested to take risks that are without a doubt necessary.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #29)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:48 PM

139. Uh, it's classified. So he has SECRET or higher.

No, it's not just an NDA.

Sounds like he had to sign an NDA or some other confidentiality agreement to be able to read the text, thus, to release his doubts about TPP under his own name would be a breach of that. That does not preclude him from releasing his misgivings anonymously. Throw his writing through a text obfuscator if necessary.



Releasing classified information, anonymously or not, is a federal crime. There are holes in the statute he could theoretically exploit that might keep him out of prison this time, but it also means he can never be involved in any other government business.

Your plan is to get the people who care to stop these abuses to remove themselves from government jobs, leaving only the "yes men".

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #12)

Wed May 20, 2015, 12:04 AM

162. No problem. Let us share our criticisms of your insipid remark. eom

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:16 AM

14. .

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #14)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:13 PM

121. Awesome, another content rich post!

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:19 AM

15. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:24 AM

17. How Is Hope And Change Working Out For All So Far

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #17)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:37 AM

28. Nice teabilly response

Walk with pride.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #28)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:48 AM

31. Shoot The Messenger - Typical Response When Facts Dispell Myth

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #31)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:06 AM

37. What message? No progressive goals have been achieved under Obama?

Cantbeserious.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #28)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:45 AM

77. I've noticed the talking points aimed at anyone who opposes signing over Congress' right to

legislate and to play its Constitutional Role on behalf of the American people, to Multi National Corporations via Secret Trade Agreements written mostly by Corporations, many of them Global Corporations.

Your comment above epitomizes the responses of those who support these secret deals.

Accuse our best Dems and those who GET why they are trying so hard to protect those who elected them from these Multi National Corporations, of being 'right wingers'.

Offer no counter argument, just go right to a personal attack.

Let me ask you something.

Because I am always curious about people who do not present any argument to support their views. Do you think that attacking Democrats is going to change any minds on something as important as this?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #77)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:07 AM

78. Poster rips Obama's presidency with a tired Sarah Palin line and you defend it

From your high horse, no less. Awesome stuff.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #78)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:17 AM

80. Double bingo.

Big day here.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #78)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:20 AM

81. I'm not interested in childish games when it comes to issues as serious as this.

The old days when we were so easily distracted by 'OMG did you see what O'Reilly said on Fox' nonsense are long gone.

You must have noticed that no one cares about these clowns anymore or what they say. .

This isn't about individual politicians, it is about THIS COUNTRY.

I should care more about what Palin said about Obama than a Trade Deal being kept secret from the American people which according to those who have read it, is so damaging to this country that they HAVE to keep it secret because the American people would probably rise up en masse if they knew what was in it?

So it's about protecting the president from criticism? Isn't that protectionist btw?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #81)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:27 AM

84. If you read the thread, I criticize the President's approach to this deal up top

And it's not the first time. In fact, we have a whole chapter of Obama supporters here who can walk and chew gum at the same time.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #78)

Tue May 19, 2015, 05:24 PM

145. K&R!

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #17)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:20 AM

60. Almost word for word from Sarah Palin at a Tea Party Convention.

 

Congrats. I guess.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #60)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:41 AM

68. Bingo.

eom

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #60)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:46 PM

90. Once Again - Shoot The Messenger - Despite The Fact That Truth Hurts

eom

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #60)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:50 PM

113. An anemic argument

Basing your support or nonsupport for someone based on what others say about them.

Caribou Barbie also, IMO, coined one of the best phrases describing the MSM news......"The LameStream Media". For very different reasons than I would have labeled them that...but perfect and catchy. Youbetcha.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #60)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:01 PM

117. and congrats to you for desperately grabbing at that

 

and not addressing the issues in the op.

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Response to cali (Reply #117)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:42 PM

132. No desperation or grab involved. I was pulled into it by jury service. Nice try though. nt

 

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #17)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:22 PM

152. Nice Sarah Palin quote there. What else ya got? nt

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Response to Hekate (Reply #152)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:34 PM

155. The Truth Smarts - Does Not Change That The Truth Is Still The Truth

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #155)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:39 PM

157. OK, that's all you've got. Pretty lame...

You better believe it.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #157)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:51 PM

160. I Better Believe What?

eom

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:32 AM

23. This is a VERY important article, by one of our most experienced trade experts,



and international trade co-chair for the Kerry-Edwards Presidential Campaign, as well as an advisor the the 2008 Obama campaign.



". . . How can we properly advise, without knowing the details? . . . Questions pervade virtually every chapter of the proposed agreement, including labor and the environment, investor-state, intellectual property and others. The answers to these questions affect the sourcing and investment decisions of our companies and resulting jobs for our people. Our elected representatives would be abdicating their Constitutional duty if they failed to raise questions.

Senator Warren should be commended for her courage in standing up to the President, and Secretary Clinton for raising a note of caution, and I encourage all elected officials to raise these important questions. Working Americans can’t afford more failed trade agreements and trade policies.

Congress should refuse to pass fast track trade negotiating authority until the partnership between the branches, and the trust of the American people is restored. That will require a lot of fence mending and disclosure of exactly what the TPP will do. That begins by sharing the final text of the TPP with those of us who won’t simply rubber-stamp it."



http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html
















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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Reply #23)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:18 PM

123. +1

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Response to BrotherIvan (Reply #123)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:52 PM

133. +2

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:35 AM

25. It's best for the health of the Democratic Party...

... that they make damn sure this piece of shit dies a quick death. Like NAFTA before it, it will be hung like an albatross around their necks if they don't. Those Dems that won't come out publically against it, should plan on an early retirement.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #25)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:53 AM

45. This statement only applies to Dems in the House.

Senate Dems can now vote against it all they want ant it will still pass. So there is nothing to hang around their necks. The time in the Senate for anything other than delYing tactics is over.

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Response to salib (Reply #45)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:57 AM

49. It applies to EVERY Democrat in office and seeking office.

We the People are watching and keeping score. We the People WILL hold those who do not boldly and publically stand up for us accountable. Silence IS capitulation.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #49)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:12 AM

55. I agree with your sentiment

However, all of those senators who first voted against debate, then turned around the next day and allowed debate can now vote against the bill, and it will likely pass.

This, they have political cover. I think the best we can say is that they were against it before they were for it before they were against it.

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Response to salib (Reply #55)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:13 AM

57. They may have "political cover" with idiots.

The rest of us?

Not so much.

Nor do wannabe candidates.

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Response to salib (Reply #55)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:25 PM

105. That won't work for me

I'm talking about you, Wyden!

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:56 AM

34. all I'll say

 

Last edited Tue May 19, 2015, 08:52 AM - Edit history (1)

is, our system is BROKEN because of all the corporate power and MONEY in our political machinery. on edit: I might add that this 'deal' will pit the poor, black, brown and white, against the exploited Asian worker thus continuing the divide and conquer rule, worldwide, that the 1% has used so effectively, in this country, for generations.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #34)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:36 AM

41. and that is the crux of the problem

When over 400 corporations have seen and put their two million in to the TPP, and the average American, as well as unions, have no say and can't even see it, there's no doubt what the deal is about.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:01 AM

35. Obama never had Progressive

….economists at the table to deal with the 2008 financial crisis. He had only Wall Street.

And he didn't have progressives at the table for the TPP—but rather lobbyists and corporations.

It's a legacy tragedy for him and and a real danger for us ordinary working people.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #35)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:43 AM

76. Yep.

And he ran as a Progressive. Twice.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:03 AM

36. K&R

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:33 AM

40. K&R!

Excellent article!

It's absolute bullshit for President Obama to ask for details of criticism when he won't allow anything to be shared. It's almost like a dare to people to see if they will risk jail

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Response to marym625 (Reply #40)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:34 AM

65. It isn't a dare

He's outright mocking them.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #65)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:40 AM

67. I think both are true. n/t

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:38 AM

42. This is why I support Bernie Sanders

Warren is right to be worried about this and if she were running she would have my support. Since she is not I will support the candidate that has been out front on trade and in opposition to these kind of deals for decades.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:45 AM

43. He mentions Warren as bravely speaking out against, and Hillary as correctly identifying some items

To be vigilent on in her book, yet nowhere does he mention Bernie Sanders, who has come out forcefully against TPP. Hillary spoke in general terms about what trade agreements should contain in her book, but has not come out and addressed TPP at this critical stage. I tweeted Wessell to call him out for his bias.

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Response to peacebird (Reply #43)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:01 AM

50. the Bernie Sanders challenge

 

is really giving the Dem 'leadership' fits, I think. Otherwise why try to marginalize him so forcefully, so early. More and more I'm beginning to look at Sanders as a way to make a huge political statement against "business as usual". These corporate Dems and rethugs must be brought the message that a lot of people know what they have done, are doing and if we don't vote, will continue to do, if we don't stop them with a Warren or Sanders rebuttal. I think. I speak for myself only.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #50)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:03 AM

51. I agree with you

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #50)

Wed May 20, 2015, 06:22 AM

165. I am standing in the long line with you.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:52 AM

44. President Barack Obama said today that he would like to work with kids in the next phase of his life

"After his presidency is finished-whether it is this year or in 2016-President Barack Obama said today that he would like to work with kids in the next phase of his life.

Obama was asked during a taping of ABC's "The View" today in New York City what he sees himself doing after he is no longer president.

"Well, you know, first things first here," Obama said to laughter. "There's all kinds of things I want to do in the second term, uh, putting folks back to work, making sure our schools are up to snuff."

"And then?" Barbara Walters, host of the show, said.

"You know, in a post-presidency, the thing that I think I would enjoy most is spending time working with kids," Obama said. "I love teaching, I miss teaching, and you know, I'm not sure it would necessarily be in a classroom, but the idea of being able to go around in various cities and helping to create mentorships, and apprenticeships, giving young people the sense of possibility and opportunity, and using whatever spotlight I can shine to show how much incredible talent there is out there."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/obama-to-work-with-kids-after-presidency-he-tells-the-view/

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Response to midnight (Reply #44)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:54 AM

46. what does this have to do with the topic in the op? Do you have a point?

 

Pray tell, what is it?

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Response to midnight (Reply #44)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:10 AM

54. So TPP is not all about his cushy retirement?

That's been one of the more hysterical theories around here.

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Response to midnight (Reply #44)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:24 AM

83. Kids are going to need a lot of help

 

if this atrocious "trade" agreement is rammed through.

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Response to JEB (Reply #83)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:00 PM

134. Yes they will

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 08:56 AM

47. Why should the text of ANY trade deal be legally prohibited?

K&R…

Why doesn't it bother damned near EVERYONE here that those who pay most of the United States budget and those who are the backbone of the labor movement are PROHIBITED by law to get a direct assessment of the law's text?

This is the kind of HORSESHIT that the Obama administration needs to own… right fucking NOW...

The text of the TPP, like all trade deals, is a closely guarded secret. That fact makes a genuine public debate impossible and should make robust debate behind closed doors all the more essential. But the ability of TPP critics like me to point out the deal’s many failings is limited by the government’s surprising and unprecedented refusal to make revisions to the language in the TPP fully available to cleared advisors.
Bill Clinton didn’t operate like this. During the debate on NAFTA, as a cleared advisor for the Democratic leadership, I had a copy of the entire text in a safe next to my desk and regularly was briefed on the specifics of the negotiations, including counterproposals made by Mexico and Canada. During the TPP negotiations, the United States Trade Representative (USTR) has never shared proposals being advanced by other TPP partners. Today’s consultations are, in many ways, much more restrictive than those under past administrations.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html#ixzz3aaY332VL

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #47)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:09 AM

53. Eleven Dimension Chess

 

We proles are just too stupid to see how this is going to make life paradise for us if we would just shut up and clap.

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Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #53)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:14 PM

138. Oh, I got weak with THAT one!

Of course!

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:17 AM

59. There's a difference between making public statements and making concerns known to the President.

 

Is Wessel claiming he is not allowed to make his concerns known to the President? I think what he is complaining about is that he can't go on a public rant about his concerns.

Not the same thing at all.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:21 AM

61. This is the crux of this trade give away

"What I can tell you is that the administration is being unfair to those who are raising proper questions about the harms the TPP would do. To the administration, everyone who questions their approach is branded as a protectionist—or worse—dishonest. They broadly criticize organized labor, despite the fact that unions have been the primary force in America pushing for strong rules to promote opportunity and jobs. And they dismiss individuals like me who believe that, first and foremost, a trade agreement should promote the interests of domestic producers and their employees."

This last sentence wraps up the sentiment of everyone on fairness and disclosure-----we have a right to know-------end of story----------and we are being denied this right





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Response to turbinetree (Reply #61)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:25 AM

62. You do NOT have a right to micro-manage every treaty that is being considered.

 

When the treaty goes before Congress, they have, what, 90 days to review it? It won't be secret then. Plenty of time to make our concerns known then.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #62)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:33 AM

74. That's just it, we can all see it after fast track, but no changes can be made.

And since Nixon first employed fast track to get around our Democratic & Representative govt to pass a bad deal, no trade deal has failed passing using fast track. 15 times its been used to screw over Americans. Yet 100s of trade deals have gone through without fast track, because they had nothing to hide.

TPP couldn't pass without fast track, and Obama couldn't get fast track when Dems had the senate majority.

He needs a repub senate majority to get it through. How can anyone defend this?

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #74)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:27 PM

106. We can see it DURING Fast Track, not after.

 

For those 90 days or whatever, our elected representatives can say whatever the hell they want about the TPP. Of course not all our elected representatives have our welfare in mind when they start voting but that's another issue.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #62)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:09 PM

98. You are wrong and I respectfully disagree

This is the first treaty that this country signed:

1776 – Model Treaty passed by the Continental Congress becomes the template for its future international treaties

I, you and everyone, do have a right, we have the right know under the Pre-amble of the Constitution to know what our treaties and or laws are going to do to us as a society and to civilization as a whole.

This treaty or "trade deal" and all trade deals are like this analogy:
What came first the chicken or the egg?







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Response to turbinetree (Reply #98)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:34 PM

107. But that's not how a democracy works.

 

We elect our representatives to make decisions in our names. Whether they keep that in mind or not is another thing.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:29 AM

63. No more fast-track, period. n/t

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:35 AM

66. Kill it! Kill it with fire! Stop The TPP!!

 

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 09:49 AM

70. BIG K&R!...Thanks RiverLover

 


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Response to Segami (Reply #70)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:25 AM

73. ...

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:09 AM

71. My impression is that Obama is being BLACKMAILED.

What the hell does Obama get out of turning his base against him?
I don't get it.
It isn't a logical move based on his history.
Something strange is going on here.
It's like he's being blackmailed behind the scenes somehow.
Is there someone who has the ability to destroy something or someone important to him?
Seems impossible but there it is.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #71)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:23 AM

82. Agree. Follow the money. Who is going to supply the millions that come from speeches

 

in post presidency? Surely not you or I or anyone, likely that we know. I stopped short of Blackmail, but in politics it is more greasing the skids, wink-wink-nudge-nudge, nudge. Unfortunately, it sullies his reputation with only the Progressives, but he'll get his millions anyway.

Also, consider that "The Base" pretty much only had power until the second election was over. Kind of a first term to give us some crumbs, so we could be grateful and vote him in again. It's the second term that tells.

JMO.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #71)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:45 PM

89. I wonder that too

He's pushing HARD for this, harder than other legislation or against republican obstructionism. He's spouting his most inflammatory invective to date not against corporatists or the obstructionist republicans; but against the progressive elements of his own base. That's just downright strange.

Almost as if he was told "Push this/pass this....or else".

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Response to Populist_Prole (Reply #89)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:20 PM

101. He's definitely being leaned on in one way or another

 

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Response to Sobax (Reply #101)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:24 PM

104. Yes. which tells us a LOT about how EVIL this "trade deal" really is. -nt-

 

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #71)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:32 PM

127. It's payback, not blackmail

His 2008 campaign cost $1Billion. His 2012 campaign cost upwards of $1.4Billion. Those donations aren't gifts, and they need to be paid back. He had to make deals to get to the White House, and being a junior Senator, he had to make A LOT of deals to rise so quickly.

I don't know why this isn't more obvious. This is why we need campaign finance reform and should not vote for any candidate who is bankrolled by corporations. They may campaign like a liberal, but their sponsors must be paid back.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:23 AM

72. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

 


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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:36 AM

75. Now that she's a Democrat, this might be a good time for Senator Warren to read the party platform.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026694048

Hope that addresses her concerns.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #75)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:58 PM

94. The results are in. At least the alerter is now getting a 24-hour vacation from alerting.

On Tue May 19, 2015, 04:43 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Now that she's a Democrat, this might be a good time for Senator Warren to read the party platform.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6694061

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Essentially, this "new" poster ucrdem has been trolling the forums with anti-Elizabeth Warren posts, attempting, among other things, to persuade forum members that Warren is still some sort of Republican. This latest post of his/hers/whoever on this thread is yet another in long series of baiting posts concerning Warren, all of which are meant to piss off DUers. Following is just some of the others:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022968996#post89

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10026524885#post60

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6028605

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6028648

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6028690

The review was completed at Tue May 19, 2015, 04:55 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't know what the alerter means by "new" - the poster joined in 2013. And it's the primary season, we're allowed to post stuff that pisses off other DUers. Manny does it all the time, so does cali. Not hide-worthy and you the alerter should really grow another layer of skin.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I recommend 'Ignore' if this poster annoys you
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No worse than the Obama bashing, the Hillary bashing, or the Sanders Bashing. Maybe we can start bashing Republicans, huh?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: What a pointless alert!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #94)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:16 PM

151. Quite a dossier there.

Thanks Sheldon!

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #151)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:39 PM

156. Wow, just wow....

 

That one really put some effort into that damn alert. I've got to give them an A for effort but they sure do seem to be keeping an eye on you. Glad you didn't get a hide for that nonsense.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 11:15 AM

79. And when the huge, steaming pile of horse crap is dumped on the public,

there's going to be a mad scramble to dig through it, because there MUST be a pony in there somewhere!

Right? Right?

No, not a pony, but trust me. You're gonna love it! I wanted it to be a surprise...

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:36 PM

87. Michael Wessel ignores Bernie Sanders' criticism of the TPP.

Bernie is an announced candidate. Michael Wessel, by ignoring Bernie, demonstrates that he is part of the in-crowd. If he doesn't like Obama's secrecy about the TPP, secrecy which prohibits honest discussion of its pros and cons, then we have an even bigger problem than we could have thought.

And Mr. Wessel needs to listen to Bernie Sanders before he writes another op-ed. The race for the Democratic Party nomination is not yet closed, Mr. Wessel. Please pay attention.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #87)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:18 PM

100. JD, this isn't about the upcoming election. This is the frustration of one of Obama's advisers, who

has criticisms that are being ignored by the president & he's unable to go into specifics with the public on the reasons it's so bad & how it won't create jobs at home because the president has made it "classified" & he could be jailed if he did.

What could that possibly have to do with Bernie's run for the presidency?

He only mentions Warren because she has become the face of the opposition to the TPA & TPP. And she's not running.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #100)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:20 PM

124. He's an adviser to the President. Why would he suddenly become an adviser to the public?

 

Makes no sense. If he's advising the President, then he's doing the job he signed onto and needs to stop complaining.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #124)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:33 PM

154. I think it's fairly obvious that he's incredibly

Frustrated. He's an adviser who knows how much this will hurt our country and not only is his experienced expert advise being ignored by the president, the president has made it impossible for him to be explicit in explaining why this is a bad deal to the people of his country.

He's busting loose and trying to tell us what's really going on. I'm also fairly certain he's losing some friends here too. I'm grateful to him and believe we all should be.

I still don't see how his telling his story has anything to do with Sen Sanders.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 12:50 PM

93. Michael Wessel fans?

Interesting.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:02 PM

95. Duty

 

Very convincing article. Michael Wessel has a duty to this country to expose ALL the details. Besides, what's the worst that could happen to him? In many circles, he would be seen as a hero. Lets hope his article reaches the masses. Expose the truth.

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Response to dpatbrown (Reply #95)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:22 PM

103. Tell that to Chelsey Manning & Edward Snowden.

 

Yes, they ARE heroes but that didn't keep them out of harms way in Amerika

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:10 PM

99. We need a law to OUTLAW SECRET LEGISLATION no one can read or talk about.

 

This is no way for a so-called "democracy" to behave.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #99)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:47 PM

112. There is no 'secret legislation'.

 

There is a negotiation that will be public for 90 days while it's voted on. No one is passing a law that no one knows anything about else how would the laws be enforced?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #112)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:59 PM

116. Total BS

 



Why are you so willing to sell America down the river?

This deal is locked away behind armed guards, can't be copied, can't
even take any notes (unless you want them confiscated at the door
when you leave), AND you can't TALK ABOUT IT after you've seen
it or you'll go to jail.

What kind of way is this to pass laws in a so-called "democracy"?????

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #116)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:04 PM

118. Did you get to see the Iran treaty as it was being negotiated?

 

Didn't hear you complaining then. Why now? All treaties are negotiated privately. Then they are presented to Congress and voted on. This is no different from other treaties, trade-related or not.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #118)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:16 PM

122. Which basement room was the Iran Treaty locked away in again?

 

1) the Iran Treaty was NOT written or "negotiated" by corporate lobbyists and lawyers, the TPP. was. The Iran Treaty was negotiated by the State Dept. and other government officials.
2) the details of the Iran Treaty were discussed openly, without people in the know being threatened with jail time if they divulge it's contents.

Apples & Oranges baby.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:54 PM

114. VERY telling that the biggest, worst thing they can think of calling an opponent is "protectionist"

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Response to MisterP (Reply #114)

Wed May 20, 2015, 06:54 AM

166. +1 /nt

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 01:58 PM

115. History And Obama

He will get his due as the first black, really half black president, as he should.

He will get ripped for his TPP shilling (as will Bubba for NAFTA etc), but that's not all. He will get ripped for saying he was going to try to reign in Wall Street and then....bringing in the same pro/in and out of Wall Street hacks who wrecked it.

He'll not get high marks for wasting time trying to work across the aisle with a crazy, obstinate party. Stuff like working and buying into that "Grand Bargain" - as in a grand bargain for the wealthy.

The ACA - better than nothing but it didn't do a lot about cost. When I hear it has made costs rise slower I wonder...while this is better than more steep increases, it's way too high as is, this did little to control those.

The person who will get the most kudos on health care, if it happens, will be the person that goes to a very cheap single payer system like the rest of the non tinhorn nations. For profit health care is obscene.

The Obama apologists are remarkable and indomitable. If he suddenly declared himself King they would find a way to rationalize it. Again, blind loyalty is dangerous.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #115)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:33 PM

128. "really half black"???

Wow.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #115)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:26 PM

141. +1

 

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Response to Sobax (Reply #141)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:49 PM

159. Exactly which part are you +1?

 

The fact that our President is biracial or the bullshit about ACA rates allegedly going up because we know that's nonsense. Because this entire post was nothing but a great big bite right off of freeperville.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #115)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:29 PM

153. "Really half black president"? Well aren't you special.Back home we would have called him hapa-haole

But then back home it was not a slur to acknowledge one's multi-ethnicity.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #115)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:43 PM

158. What a steaming pile of bullshit.

 

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 02:34 PM

129. ...

sigh


I'm relying on the opinions of people who know more than me. I'd say Mr. Wessel knows more than me.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:06 PM

135. The administration should have hired Michael Wessel, not Michael Froman.










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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Reply #135)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:07 PM

137. And Joseph Stiglitz rather than Timothy Geithner.








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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 03:06 PM

136. corporations must not get any power. as seen on john oliver's show.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 04:14 PM

140. Funny ,,,, he claims to have read it yet....

he post text of the document that proves all these bad thingys he claims it contains...geeez this is getting as bad as the Right wing tactics of disinformation....

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 07:24 PM

149. Huge K&R

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue May 19, 2015, 10:14 PM

150. This just gets better and better. n/t

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Wed May 20, 2015, 12:10 AM

163. Obama and Mitch McConnell are opening the flood gates with TPP, jobs pouring into Asia without

enforceable regulations. You can talk all day about the wonderful "spirit" of environmental and worker protections, but Wall Street doesn't give a shit about any of that and they know it is unenforceable.

This deal is a literally a giant bag of shit.


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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Wed May 20, 2015, 12:19 AM

164. It's totally obvious that Wessel . .

 

jilted his pole dancing girlfriend, or is a hater,
or both

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